posted
Though I had long planned to do some fanfic centered around the Earth-Kzin Wars, I've recently come to the conclusion that I couldn't ever really pull it off, especially now that Enterprise seems to be invalidating the whole precept, and also because I don't have the top-to-bottom familiarity with Niven's original work that would be necessary.
I did, however, come up with some conceptual sketches of three of the primary ship designs that I envisioned for the period. Thought there might be some mild interest in them, so here they are, along with some excerpts from notes I made while planning out the stories that serve to portray the setting. (Please note that these excerpts are not in precise chronological order as they appeared in my notes, but rather I have selected and arranged passages as they pertain to the three major races.)
"It was but a few short years after Cochrane had made his warp flight aboard the Phoenix. The experimental advanced exploration craft S.S. Valiant had just been launched. Contact between the United Nations had been restored and recovery from the Post-Atomic Horror was well under way. The UN Space Navy, which had been essentially defunct during the War, had been reestablished and partially reinvigorated. Many ships were beginning to be fitted with Warp 2-capable engines..."
"The Vulcanians---or the Vulcans, as they had come to be more commonly called---had not been any great presence since they had made contact with Cochrane. There had been some additional contact, but nothing world-shattering. They certainly hadn't shown any real active interest in Earth's exploits..."
"When the Kzinti came, all this was ended. Earth, for over a century to come, would be permanently indebted to the Vulcans---for without the Vulcans, humans would never have been able to hold their own against the invaders..."
"It was also during this time that a Vulcan archeological team on Vega discovered an ancient artifact, a stasis-box containing what appeared to be some type of anti-gravity generator. Intense study by Vulcan scientists would eventually reveal a much more efficient gravity-control technology than either the land-based repulsorlift engine or the shipboard centrifugal motivators employed by the Vulcan Navy..."
Kzinti Marauder Based loosely on designs from the old Star Fleet Battles game. (I tried doing one more in line with the police cruiser design seen in "The Slaver Weapon" but it turned out looking too Romulan.)
"The Kzin were a race of carnivorous, felinoid creatures with an aggressive thirst for conquest. In stark contrast to lesser threats, such as the Orion pirates that plagued the space lanes, the Kzinti were a bloodthirsty lot, not looking simply to acquire and posess more territory but to utterly ravage the worlds they encountered, enslaving their populations sucking them dry of all their precious resources..."
"The so-called "civilization" of the Kzin was based upon a Patriarchy, with the head of one revered family ruling the entire Empire, looked upon as a god-like figure..."
Anyway, you get the general idea. Just thought I'd share a little.
-MMoM
[ June 26, 2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Have you read the early TNG novel "the Captain's Honor"? It features an alien race that is obviously a knock-off of the Kzin called the M'Dok, IIRC. I figure the author wanted to write about the Kzinti, but Roddenberry had already decreed the Kzinti didn't exist (mostly to avoid copyright issues w/ Niven) in Star Trek.
It's a decent novel and explores the Roman culture as well - from "Bread & Circuses". Apparently they're Fed allies now and have their own starships (typically Connie refits and other old surplus).
Whether you read it or not, why not adapt your ideas to your own Kzin-analog? I'd be interested in seeing it; your notes show an ability to write.
-------------------- Darkwing If you don't drink the kool-aid, you're a *baaad* person - Rev Jim Jones It is useless for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion - William Ralph Inge Almond kool-aid, anyone? - DW [email protected]
Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
With the likes of Harry Turtledove on the bestseller list creating alternative histories, such as the American Empire-series, you could create the The Federation-Kzin War: An Alternative History of the Federation or something in that vein.
Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
If you want to stay true to Niven's (and his "Man-Kzin Wars" writing pals') interpretation of Kzinti ships, you should do designs that are basically spherical or otherwise rounded, even if with weapon turrets and other such spikes protruding in every direction. Aggressively painted, of course, but still with rounded shapes instead of the kind of angularity you'd expect from a race with claws...
There are two reasons why Kzinti ships are spherical/rounded. One is because Niven and pals try to do hard scifi, and those shapes minimize surface area in 3D combat. Another is that the Kzinti got their interstellar tech from aliens called the Jotoki, and those are all soft and soggy (not to mention enslaved nowadays). Only small low-tech things like sublight fighters would be "Kzinny", all claws and fangs. *That* tech the Kzinti did have before the Jotoki came. And yes, the fanfic/gaming concept that the Kzinti like to use carriers and fighters is somewhat supported by what we read in "Man-Kzin Wars".
I know that doesn't automatically look good in Trek - but you could take it as a challenge to create an aggressive ship out of shapes that *aren't* elongated in the direction of travel. And those spherical protrusions (engine nacelles? weapons?) of the police cruiser do remind me of Niven's ships (even if the real Traitor's Claw was described differently from what was shown in TAS).
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Mim, I like your little "too Romulan" statement in the marauder pic! Cute.
I'm reminded of the scene from Blazing Saddles. "I know! We'll kill their firstborn sons!" "hmmm...too Jewish."
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Timo: If you want to stay true to Niven's (and his "Man-Kzin Wars" writing pals') interpretation of Kzinti ships, you should do designs that are basically spherical or otherwise rounded, even if with weapon turrets and other such spikes protruding in every direction.
Something like this Federation monitor? http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/ A bit more agressive and much larger for the Kzin, but not a bad place to start.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I've just been thinking about the Kzin war(s) too.
Even when disregarding ENT, a Kzin war in the late 2060s doesn't seem right. First of all, it doesn't come up at all in First Contact, nor any of the other episodes. Second, Earth was in no position to fight interstellar wars, or to survive an invasion into the Solar system. You could put the war somewhat later in the 21st century, but that would still make it an event someone should've mentioned (the first interstellar war fought by Earth!).
A better solution could be to not put the war 200 years prior to TAS, but 100 years. That would make it happen somewhere in the late 22nd century, making it a Federation-Kzinti war. I know, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense..
And the Kzin can't be the �berpowerful enemies from Niven's books. They have to be significantly less powerful than the Klingons and the Romulans.
posted
The two concerns could sort of cancel out each other. If Sulu has to spell out for his pals who the Kzinti are or were, then it only makes sense that nobody else ever mentions them, either.
IIRC, Sulu says the Kzinti lost four wars because Earth had warp, echoing the original Known Space history. Surely it would be possible for a pre-Archer Starfleet armed with mere plasma cannon to outfight four sublight invasion fleets, even humiliatingly so?
So the Kzinti would think they had fought four glorious wars. The Earthlings would think they stopped four waves of particularly odious illegal aliens in a fairly successful immigration control operation. For Sulu to call the engagements "wars" would merely be courtesy shown in the presence of a dozen sets of imposing claws, even if they were attached to slouching cats clad in pink.
"Slaver Weapon" takes place in the late 2260s, that much is commonly agreed, yes? The "200 yrs" reference could still be taken to mean something like 2101, giving Earth time to build some plausible defenses after WWIII.
Timo Saloniemi
[ June 27, 2003, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: Timo ]
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Something like this Federation monitor? http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/ A bit more agressive and much larger for the Kzin, but not a bad place to start.
Harry: My idea was that the main defensive thrust of the conflict would have been carried out by the Vulcans, acting in a sort of paternalistic role characterisitc of what we've seen on ENT. It would be my view that it was in fact this event which caused Earth to be so under their thumb in the 2100s. (As mentioned in my notes, we were "indebted" to the Vulcans for having "saved" us from the Kzin, because---as you and I both cite---we would have been virtually defenseless without their aid.)
Timo: Yeah, I sort of vacillate back and forth on the warp issue. It was part of the original Niven storyline that Earth was able to beat the Kzinti with the achievement of FTL tech, although it wasn't specifically mentioned by Sulu in "The Slaver Weapon." It would make sense and is another possibility for why Earth could stand up to its attackers. However, the question then arises of how to make the conflict an exciting one and how to portray the warcats as an imposing enemy if they're really...not.
On the subject of pink: There's just no end to the cracks here, is there? Now, let me ask you this...how do you know that the same colors our culture holds to represent different qualities would be viewed in the same light in an alien culture? Suppose their pink is like our red or some other color that suggests power or strength.
Either that, or part of the same Treaty of Sirius that limited the Kzin to police cruisers and hand phasers also forced them to wear pink and paint their vessels that way, as form of humiliation!
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Either that, or part of the same Treaty of Sirius that limited the Kzin to police cruisers and hand phasers also forced them to wear pink and paint their vessels that way, as form of humiliation!
-MMoM [/QB]
It also requires them to courtsey when meeting any starfleet officer.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Cats here on Earth (indeed a lot of mammals, unlike a lot of reptiles and a lot of birds) can't see colours. If the Kzinti are the same then it may not be pink, it's just a shade of grey.
-------------------- "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
In an intriguing parallel, does anyone else remember hearing the story that the guy who did the coloring for "The Slaver Weapon" actually WAS color blind, and thought he was making the Kzin ship and uniforms gray rather than pink?
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged