So, I know a lot of you would want the Titan to be an established class -- like a Steamrunner, Galaxy, etc etc.... but no! Riker left the Enterprise for something special. The new USS Titan NX-80291 prototype!
Im obviously not done, but im planning on giving it some good detail and a side and front view.
What do you think the titan would look like? post your ideas or designs here!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, I guess I, for one, don't think it will be a monster ship like that. Yes... the name would tend to imply that it's a large vessel, comparitivly, but I don't think Starfleet has anything yet that dwarfs the Sovereign and Galaxy classes.
I'm all for the Titan being something we haven't seen yet, but I'm guessing it's something more along the lines of an Intrepid. The Titan's first assignment under Riker was to go to Romulus and help establish diplomatic ties, right? Maybe it's the fact that the Bellerophon went to Romulus... but I just see Riker in an Intrepid style ship. New and sleek... but not an uberShip or anything.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Number one, EW.
Number two, you don't give newly-commissioned prototypes to newly-frocked command officers.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Actually, I think the design has potential. But yeah, too big.
Based purely on the necessities of the plot, I highly doubt that the Titan would be larger than a Sovereign class ship if it were new. It wouldn't do to have the main ship eclipsed by a secondary craft - this is why in TNG, and more importantly VOY and ENT the guest ships are ALWAYS smaller than the "hero" vessel. The only time the opposite is true is if the plot specifically demands it - case in point, the "new hotness" Excelsior replacing the "old & busted" Constitution class. Given that Berman tends to avoid this notion in his work, it ain't gonna happen.
I envision a new ship roughly the same volume of the E-E, but arranged differently to make it look smaller and unmistakeably not Picard's ship. If Riker would get a Galaxy, that would be a different story, as it is widely accepted that the Sovereign is the "new hotness"... But that's for the other thread.
Mark
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
I agree with Aban. Tge design itself is... unusual... unusual enough to actually work , but it's way too big. There are practical limitations, for one thing: Where is this thing going to be build? It would require a even bigger drydock than that seen in Nemesis. Starfleet is not about making every new ship bigger than before...
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
The number on the ship is 80291. The label is 80921.
DISCREPANCY!
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
Updated with a resized version.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Can't say I dig this one: it's a bit too organic looking for my tastes and the nacelles look too Soverign-ish.
Mabye think along the design shapes of previous classes and update it from there.
I would'nt mind a updae of an older design....just not a Akira-Soverign mutt like so many out there. (not that yours is, mind you)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: It wouldn't do to have the main ship eclipsed by a secondary craft - this is why in TNG, and more importantly VOY and ENT the guest ships are ALWAYS smaller than the "hero" vessel.
I think the idea is that the Titan would now *be* the new main/hero vessel.
The days of Picard and the Enterprise are over. It's time for a cast made up of Riker, Troi, a handful of characters from DS9 and VGR, and some new & young faces to take center stage...
-MMoM Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: It wouldn't do to have the main ship eclipsed by a secondary craft - this is why in TNG, and more importantly VOY and ENT the guest ships are ALWAYS smaller than the "hero" vessel.
I think the idea is that the Titan would now *be* the new main/hero vessel.
The days of Picard and the Enterprise are over. It's time for a cast made up of Riker, Troi, a handful of characters from DS9 and VGR, and some new & young faces to take center stage...
-MMoM
Well, I wasnt going to explain my reasoning, but yes. This is exactly what I was thinking.
As for Organicly-shapped ships... why not? We know thats where the future is heading, why not make one of the last designs of the 24th century more organic shapped. Eventually ships end up looking like the Wells-Class, you know.
Also, the nacelles are meant to be Sovy-like.
Its really takeing elements from the Akira, Prometheus, Sovereign, Nebula, and Steamrunner. All of which are my favorite TNG-era designs.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
My expectations of the Titan, are more of a big brother to the Defiant. More functional then graceful. More of a combat/patrol vessel, then a long range explorer. The Soverign class represents the Federation at it's pinnacle, while the proposed future (the Titan's setting, is of a collapsing Federation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:(the Titan's setting, is of a collapsing Federation. [/QB]
That was one of those terrible rumors floating arounf during Nemesis' shooting and has zero basis in fact. It's also one of the worst ideas ever. Ever.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
I guess I am in the minority here, but I very much like the design. Deanna was going to serve on the Titan as ships' counsellor, so I am thinking that the ship is a large explorer class of some kind. Something a lot bigger than an Intrepid-class.
My inclination has always been a refitted Nebula-class, but seeing a new explorer design works for me as well. It would be sad if Riker left the cuting edge Sovereign-class Enterprise, to command an older explorer class of his own.
Regarding Riker's ability to command a new class of starship, I would say that he is about ten years overdue for a captaincy and I don't see how this ship would present him with new challenges he couldn't handle or situations he hadn't faced already on his previous ships.
He isn't Captain John Harriman for goodness sake, who should have been relieved immediately after returning to spacedock. How such an incompetent officer could become a captain of starship is beyond me. I would expect such incompetence from an ensign who was forced into the command chair by circumstance, not an officer who was promoted through the ranks.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
A refitted Nebula would be great: I have made a few Nebula variants and I really love that darn ship! Would you rather see something like the Southerland or the version with all the Galaxy windows? I prefer more windows than the Southerland but far less that the Galaxy's saucer.
...and it's a good thing to beef up the impulse engines on those ships too!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Sutherland
I still think an Ambassador or New Orleans or Galaxy or their equivalent would be fitting for him. Nebula's remind me of hatchbacks...like the oversized Chevettes of Starfleet.
Even if they were to go for a totally new design, say, in the vein of a Nova, it needs to be at least the size of an Ambassador.
~Long live the Ambassador!!~
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Nawww... the Nebula-class is like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Land Rover Discovery of Starfleet. The mission pod is like a roof rack. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Bah! You and your Ambassadors! I look over at my bookcase as I post and what do I see THREE of these ships staring back at me! Madness I say!
Riker really should get a galaxy or a new class in the heavy cruiser range.
....and Wesley should be his helmsman. Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Didn't he say it was the most beautiful ship he'd ever seen?
That would suggest it was a brand new design, either one we haven't seen or a very new one like the Prometheus (which, being top secret, could have not been seen before by Riker, who has been out exploring and what not).
It would be a bit odd for Riker to tell Picard in his Sovereign that some old Galaxy or Nebula was more beautiful than his ship.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Perhaps the design for the Endeavour from FC could be reworked to represent the Titon. It's a new ship design but not too big/flashy. I think it'd fit well
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I posted here earlier - put the post has gone!
Anyway - I think the Titan is a Galaxy Class - as Riker is familiar with the ship and presumably loves it. Troi would be more at home there.
Him Captaining the Ghandi would have been a nice in-joke! Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: Didn't he say it was the most beautiful ship he'd ever seen?
That would suggest it was a brand new design, either one we haven't seen or a very new one like the Prometheus (which, being top secret, could have not been seen before by Riker, who has been out exploring and what not).
It would be a bit odd for Riker to tell Picard in his Sovereign that some old Galaxy or Nebula was more beautiful than his ship.
Not at all, something doesnt have to be *new* new to be the most beautiful ship he'd ever seen. I very easily could say that my *new* fire-red '67 Pontiac GTO was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen when I knew I was gonna take her home for the first time, because it was, despite being over 30 years old! All he was saying is that it *is* the most beautiful thing he had ever saw and nothing else can be really read into that.
If Riker had his heart set on a Galaxy and that is what he got, then certainly he would be proud of it. However, you have to admit, that by the name alone, Titan, that certainly fits into the Galaxy-classes "name 'em big" theme!
And dammit all, there is nothing wrong with the Ambassadors!! They are still like the 3rd largest SF vessel we have seen to date! All I'm asking for is a little Amby Resurrection! Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I don't think the name "Titan" necessarily indicates a large ship. I had assumed it was named after the moon. Other ships of the same class could have been USS Europa and USS Ganymede. Titan, though, is an easier name for audiences to understand.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
And it's a BIG moon.
Mark
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
[double post]
[ July 08, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
No the name Titan does not necessarily mean that Riker's new command is large. Plus Riker's pride and comments about the beauty of his ship does not necessarily mean that its new. You always have a special attachment to things that are yours.
I am thinking that the Titan is a large explorer because what position is Deanna Troi-Riker going to hold on the ship? My assumption is ship's counsellor, and in order to have a ship's consellor you need to have a lot of personnel aboard the starship, including multiple families, and you need multi-year exploration mission capability.
(We haven't encountered ship's counsellors on any ship other than the Galaxy and Sovereign-class Enterprise. We never found out what class of starship Ezri Dax's U.S.S. Destiny was. Does anybody know what class of ship the Destiny was?)
The Prometheus is too small and not designed for exploration missions. Where would they install the science labs? Plus I don't care if Prometheus was a titan, because other ships of different classes in Starfleet are named for titans.
Plus, having it named for a moon does not make it necessarily small either. Titan is 5,150 KM in diameter. Far larger than any Federation starship. Of course Titan's sister ships could be named for moons as well.
Riker was given the opportunity to command the U.S.S. Melbourne, and despite the DS9 episode, I still consider it to be a Nebulaclass vessel. So the Titan should be just as capable as a Nebula-class or better.
Because of Deanna, I don't see the ship as an Intrepid-class starship as well. I never thought that Voyager had a ship's counsellor in the pilot episode of Star Trek: Voyager. So I assume that the other Intrepid-class vessels also don't have this position as well.
Plus I don't understand why it makes a difference whether Admiral Ross and Dr. Bashir used an Intrepid-class U.S.S. Bellerophon to travel to Romulus. The Intrepid-class is a very fast class of starship and could get them out of harm's way very quickly if they were intercepted by Dominion forces. Plus the producers of DS9 didn't have to build new sets and could use the ones from Voyager to save money.
So after consideration of these facts, I am 99.99% certain that if they were to show the U.S.S. Titan in Star Trek: Nemesis she would be a large explorer.
I do like the idea of making the ship an Endeavour-class starship, provided that the design was a large explorer that was larger than the Ambassodor-class.
Any artists out there who want to tackle finishing Eaves' design?
Masao and Reverend, would you like to use your excellent drawing talents and take up this challenge? Perhaps either one of you could put your design on the ASDB or the Journal of Applied Treknology web sites?
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
PS--
Proteus -- I very much look forward to seeing the fore, aft, and ventral views of your Titan design.
Futurama Guy -- If we ever do see the Ambassador-class again, I hope that they make a model of the original Andrew Probert design. I don't care for the cone-like secondary hull of the Greg Jein Enterprise C/Yamaguchi model or the design of the connecting strut between the primary and secondary hulls.
I really like the ellipitical secondary hull in Probert's design and in some of Rick Sternbach sketches and the Excelsior-like connecting pylon.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Reverend has a ship that is similar to the Endeavour sketch, the Tsien.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Anyone have a quicklink to the Probert-Ambassador? I'm drawing a blank on that design.
Also, the origin of Titan has roots in Greek Mythology much like the: Bellerophon, Prometheus, Olympia, Pegasus, (among others)... and those occupy the classes of Nebula/Intrepid, Nebula/Prometheus, unknown, and Oberth classes. So far there hasn't been a proven 'naming-scheme'-per class (with a modest exception of the Galaxies) leaving the speculation of the Titans' class wide open.
Secondly, the name refers to the largest moon of Saturn, named from the Titan in Greek Mythology and the use of the term to indicate 'large', which no other ships, that I can think of, seem to follow.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: Nawww... the Nebula-class is like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Land Rover Discovery of Starfleet. The mission pod is like a roof rack.
A roof rack with more than twice the mass and volume of a Connie Refit! That's a lot of camping gear, pardner.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Futurama Guy try this link at the Federation Starship Datalink site:
In the upper left there is a scan of Andrew Probert's painting. I think this version of the Ambassador-class looks a lot stronger and durable because of its stouter appearance.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Uck! Do not like that version...
blah...
*licks tongue in dirt*
The used Ambassador looks a lot more unique without looking too much like one ship (Galaxy) or another (Excelsior). I see waaaaaaaay too much Galaxy in that design.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hey, how about the *original* Enterprise-C, that was hanging on the wall of the E-D conference room for four years? Has anyone ever tried extrapolating that design? The Ambassador we eventually got looks nothing like it, and for that matter I don't think Probert's design looks much like it either.
Mark
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:(We haven't encountered ship's counsellors on any ship other than the Galaxy and Sovereign-class Enterprise. We never found out what class of starship Ezri Dax's U.S.S. Destiny was. Does anybody know what class of ship the Destiny was?)
That's not true. There was a ship's counselor aboard the USS Brittan (sp?). It seems to me that a ship's psychologist is a pretty routine posting in the 24th Century Starfleet, even if the ship's counselor isn't a member of the bridge staff.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Was Andrus Hagan the cousellor of the Brattain? I thought he was a scientific advisor. He was from Betazed, though.
Janeway indicated that they didn't have a counsellor on board because of the nature of their original mission, not the size of the ship.
I'm guessing that any ship that is due to be out in space for any length of time will have a counsellor aboard. Voyager was only scheduled to be gone a short time before their little side-jaunt.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Yeah, Hagen was the "science advisor". In a quick tangent, the Brattain, does anyone have a theory on whether it destroyed in the end of that episode o rnot? At the end of that episode it was never indicated if the Enterprise towed it to a starbase or if it was just left there. I realize we saw the explosion that ruptured the rift to allow the Enterprise/UAI to escape, and neither of those ships were destroyed, so I cannot see any reason why the Brattain wasn't destroyed either, but nonetheless there was no indication of whether or not a salvage was made...or is it just MIA?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It could have been sent on autopilot to randevous with a support ship like the Hood and staken to starbase from there: no use tying up the flagship. It's not like the Brittain was a cutting edge ship that any of the major powers would bother to steal.
...and just for torture's sake, they should have sent Mr. Hagan agong as the sole crewman for the trip back. Kinda a starfleet flying dutchman. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Hey, how about the *original* Enterprise-C, that was hanging on the wall of the E-D conference room for four years? Has anyone ever tried extrapolating that design? The Ambassador we eventually got looks nothing like it, and for that matter I don't think Probert's design looks much like it either.
Mark
That's a good idea! Anybody got a pic of that?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I can see that representing the Probert design. ...at least as much as the Excelsior representing Enterprise B, anyway. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I don't.. There can be an AWFUL lot of license take with that wall model. Already, I like it more than the Probert thing.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Kinda looks like the ASDB Korlov design to me.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
it seems that most large-crew situations have conselors assigned.. DS9 had an assigned counselor.. and Ezri was said to be an 'assistant counselor' presumably serving under another higher ranked counselor..
as a large military entity, Starfleet must have a dedicated corps of mental health professionals to look after the good of the crews, even as early as "Where No Man Has Gone Before" there was a psychologist assigned to the Enterprise, long before the creation of the counselor position
we can probably assume that ships with very small crews or short mission profiles dont have dedicated counselors along, but probably have surgeons that are chosen for dual talents in psychological and physiological medicine.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
True - Janeway specifically states that they don't have a counsellor because she figured her short-duration mission into the Badlands wouldn't need one. It follows that there is probably a corps of Starfleet counsellors who get assigned as needed to either ships with families aboard, or those without that would be on longer-range missions.
Of course, this is not to say that ships without counsellors are deficient. There are probably plenty of officers or crew out there with equivalents to bachelors degrees in psychology; heck, we've got plenty right now.
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: it seems that most large-crew situations have conselors assigned.. DS9 had an assigned counselor.. and Ezri was said to be an 'assistant counselor' presumably serving under another higher ranked counselor..
Ezri was such on the Destiny, assistant that is; she got promoted to the station counselor of DS9, before that, there seemed to be none on the station.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Ref Counselor Telnorri in "Whispers."
You owe me $10.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: it seems that most large-crew situations have conselors assigned.. DS9 had an assigned counselor.. and Ezri was said to be an 'assistant counselor' presumably serving under another higher ranked counselor..
Ezri was such on the Destiny, assistant that is; she got promoted to the station counselor of DS9, before that, there seemed to be none on the station.
DS9 didint need no stinkin counselor! Their bar served real liquor!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Actually, after O'brien was fake-locked up for 30 years and finally came back tot he station and went nutso, Sisko had him seeing Dr. Telnori... I think. I assumed he was the station's counselor.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: Ref Counselor Telnorri in "Whispers."
You owe me $10.
$10 Canadian, right?
The official record:
"Psychological advisor on Deep Space 9 before Ezri Dax's arrival. Miles O'Brien, though at first resistant, worked with Telnorri three times a week to overcome implanted Argrathi prison life memories."
Obviously not a very important character. And it was "Hard Time"...not "Whispers"...you owe somebody $10 now. Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Wow, you guys are tough... demanding real money now too... I'm glad I just lurk here. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
USD$10. And I owe you nothing, as there are no tagbacks.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
USD$10!?! You can buy a house in Canada for that!
The doctor's lack of recognition just shows that the DS9 crew were'nt the sissys of the TNG cast.
You's never see Worf in a mudbath on DS9. It just would'nt be tolerated. Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Mud bath? I don't think Worf would tolerate a soap and water bath. Remember when he spat between his teeth: "Reminds one of bathing" with total disgust. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the TNG episode he said this or to whom.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
And yet....there he was: soaking in mud with Lwaxana Troi, Deanna and his crabhead child while holographic (and very sissy) bozos capered about. Not one of TNG's high points.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I vaguely recall that episode..."Cost of Living"...one of those wonderful 'Mamas gotta get laid' episodes we knew we were gonna get everytime Majel showed up...
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I just recently watched TOS "What Are Little Girls Made Of" with the nzgf and dang if Majel isn't one heckafine hot momma. Why couldn't they give her a less irritating reoccuring TNG character? Or make those episodes with her less irritating?
Also the klingon child's laughter makes my corneas bleed. Nothing to add w/r/t Titan.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Man, if only Duras has killed the brat and we'd kept Keh'Lar (sp?) as a recurring TNG character instead....
Lwaxana was actually prety cool (and likable!) on DS9. Oddly enough, Deanna was good on Voyager, and I can't watch a sappy TNG "I sense blah blah blah" episode anymore (except when she loses her powers and Riker tells her off when she's whining about for the whole ep). Mabye the Troi's are better away from the rest of the TNG crew. Worf sure was. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Back to the design at hand: Is the pod structure at the aft above, below or in line with the ship's centerline?
My big gripe with the design is that it looks inspired by B5 ships (the whitestar in particular) and some of the sense of scale is lost as a result.
Some tweaking and the loss of those extra nacelle pylon things and you'll have something nice, so keep at it.
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