I was sitting at breakfast this morning thinking about how bad Franz Joseph's kitbashes look, especially as fill-outs for the 23rd century Fed fleet. There were so many things either changed in TOS production for cost reasons or technical reasons that either showed up in TMP, or as in the case of Probert's original Enterprise shuttle concept, NEVER got added.
Ignoring anything from FJ and from FASA, but taking into account new ST canon (including "Enterprise"), how would you create a cool new Technical Manual?
Note: By cool and new I don't mean simply recreating the original Constitution-class using ENT tech and visuals. For example, I think we can assume that the TMP Enterprise is what the producers wanted detail-wise in the TOS Enterprise. Go from there. Likewise, I think we can say that the K'tinga warship is the same for the Klingons.
Make sense?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Bikini shots of Yeoman Rand.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Aban, c'mon LOL
It's CHRISTMAS, for Sagan's sake! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Bikini shots of Yeoman Rand.
NOT from TMP- on though! That would be a horror.....
I'd include all the great TOS ships Reverend (and everyone else I cant recall as I'm a bit numb just now) have made here on Flare, the Enterprise-era ships (of course) and possibly the ships from TAS (as rendered by Rev and the gang).
I'd at least consider adding additional details to the Tholian ship to more closely resemble the Ent version and the hull plating on the D-7 shown in Trials and Tribulations. Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Good ideas, Jason. I'd want the most definitive data possible. What do we KNOW, for example about the E-nil? Size? crew compliments? Number of decks? Deck height? Who makes the best blueprints and deck plans of it?
Etc, etc.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: NOT from TMP- on though! That would be a horror.....
I'd include all the great TOS ships Reverend (and everyone else I cant recall as I'm a bit numb just now) have made here on Flare, the Enterprise-era ships (of course) and possibly the ships from TAS (as rendered by Rev and the gang).
I'd at least consider adding additional details to the Tholian ship to more closely resemble the Ent version and the hull plating on the D-7 shown in Trials and Tribulations.
Ha ha, top of the pile! Take that Masao and Harry!
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I want an to know why the short skirts and high go-go boots were needed for female officers.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Bbbtttttthhhhhpppp!
You are all on my Richard Nixon-style enemies list!
Posted by Sarvek (Member # 910) on :
It would be awesome to see an updated TOS technical manual that would include some of the ships from TAS to make it complete. I know that Rev, Harry, and Masao have done a great job rendering such ships and shuttles as well as logos from that era. It would be neat to see the Armored shuttle as well as the Long-Range shuttle seen from some of the animated episodes, but they are unique and interesting designs.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Jason:
quote:and the hull plating on the D-7 shown in Trials and Tribulations.
Isn't the D7 that was in that Voayager-ep (with the sleeping Delta Quad-klingons who hallowed Torres) a more updated model than DS9's "Trials..."?
I believe we got more zoom-in shots of the modern D7 in that episode, as we saw it fire torpies from its mouth, a thing not seen since ST:TMP.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irishman: It's CHRISTMAS, for Sagan's sake!
You mean the Roman festival of the Sun Christianized to convert Romans in the third century? I prefer Yeoman Rand (yes, the TOS version).
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Aban, yes, I mean Saturnalia.
Sarvek, some of us HATE the idea of considering TAS ships. Perhaps I should have put them on the verboten list with FJ and FASA.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim': Jason:
quote:and the hull plating on the D-7 shown in Trials and Tribulations.
Isn't the D7 that was in that Voayager-ep (with the sleeping Delta Quad-klingons who hallowed Torres) a more updated model than DS9's "Trials..."?
I believe we got more zoom-in shots of the modern D7 in that episode, as we saw it fire torpies from its mouth, a thing not seen since ST:TMP.
Honestly, I have no idea. That was among the Voyager episodes I skipped when I became overly sick of the show (later, I went back to it but never caught up on the ones I missed).
I'd love to see a screencap though! I dont know of anyone (even here!) that's been buying all the Voyager seasons on DVD.
Masao and Harry: Sorry for omitting you: blame it on Percocet.
quote:Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: I want an to know why the short skirts and high go-go boots were needed for female officers.
Morale.....er...I guess you could think of that guy that played Legolas whenever you see rand and get the same idea.
Sarvek, some of us HATE the idea of considering TAS ships. Perhaps I should have put them on the verboten list with FJ and FASA. [/QB][/QUOTE] If you're ditching FASA's stuff, you have to omit the terrible SFB designs as well, for Saturn's sake!
FASA really did have acouple of decent TOS designs though- the Loknar in particular.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Are you all forgetting Timo's Hitchhiker's Guide? That pretty much is all the TOS-tech you'd ever want.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Linky linky?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Wasn't the one on Voyager just a Ktinga
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think it was stock footage from STVI, from what I understand.
I could be wrong though, I was....once. Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Stock footage, hmm, yeah.
This is what I got from just the Startrek.com piece of shit .avi file;
If anyone has the DVD, I'd very much like to get these screens in bigger versions.
I do believe someone on the bridge described the ship as it decloaked, and I think he/she said D7, getting confused gazes.
The ship is very bright and grey, the K'tingas from TMP and TUC where more brown, bronze-like, if I iirc correctly.
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
It was the K'T'inga CGI model from DS9: for starters the impulse engines are on the hull, not the shuttlebay section, it has the nacelle-tip disruptors, the big glowy bits on the nacelles, the torpedo mounted in the head section (the D7 didn't have photon torpedoes)all the tubing and other details on the front of the secondary hull and the backs of the nacelles are clearly the K'T'inga version; oh plus the bridge dome joins the head section like the K'T'inga rather than the D7's bubble-dome.
Paris said it was a D7, but then what does a not-too-bright jock pilot know about century old Klingon warship designations? Real world reason was they didn't have a D7 CGI lying around and someone in charge must have said use the K'T'inga - the fans won't notice. Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I thought that the K'Tinga is supposed to be a modernized/refit/movie version of the D-7..
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
Well given that it's never been said that one's a refit of the other, I'd prefer to assume it's a new construction only, the proportions and details are too different. I know the movie Enterprise is supposedly the TOS version refitted but that had to be the same ship because otherwise it wouldn't have been Kirk's Enterprise, with the D7 and K'T'inga there's no such pressure to say they're the same ships as there's no 'famous' D7.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I thought that the K'Tinga is supposed to be a modernized/refit/movie version of the D-7..
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Thanks for the screencaps, Nim!
Definitely one I'd missed. Got the episode name so I can "aquire" it online?
The ship is obviously the K'Tinga- not the (relativly) undetailed D-7 from either TAT or TOS.
As to the pilot's error on the ship name, he was just a dork or the K'Tinga was refit for the millionths time (like the Miranda and excelsior) and brought into the Dominion War from their- presumably more secure- normal patrol routes within the Klingon Empire.
Did the K'Tinga fire that giant disruptor from the command pod (the one that replaced the equally oversized torpedo from TMP)?
Ug. That second screencap of the K'Tinga is seriously out of sale with Voyager: waaaay too large.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm not so sure about this: I distinctly remember the ship from Voyager looking a lot smoother than the "modern" version.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The same model was used as on ENT, IIRC, when they couldn't finish the intented proto-battlecruiser model.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Regardless, the sleeper ship did have different nacelle glows and definitely different photon torpedos than the ones firing at DS9 in WotW.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
So, what would a TOS canon (on-screen models in the story)ship list look like? A bunch of Constitution class ships, a D-7, Romulan BoP, a DY-100, and the Fesarius? Do we ever actually see Charlie X's freighter? Or Mudd's freighter for that matter?
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Nope. Never see the Antares freighter (although there is a cool design for it over at ASDB) or Mudd's ship. Bele's (or was it Loki's?) ship from the "Black and White Cookie Episode" (er LTBYLB) was conveniently invisible also.
The Gorn ship was never seen either.
Also included would be the Tholian ship and the civilian ship Aurora stolen by Dr. Sevron and Co.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Herb,
Which Antares? I did a google search of Antares and ASDB and only found TNG stuff.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Charlie Evans traveled aboard the Antares. Okuda gave it NCC-501 or something.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
I mean which Antares fan design was Herbshrump talking about?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Nice. That's one design I'd like to see Sovereignized. Like a little brother to the Prometheus, but a fast courier ship.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Not bad. I wonder how much like Starfleet civilian ships would look in the TOS era? Has anyone involved in the show given any insight?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
There were some designs on TAS that might've been civilian. And of course, the SS Woden and SS Aurora are probably civilian vessels.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
Harry, you know how I feel about TAS designs....blech!
Alright, there is the Woden, but did they just use the Botany Bay model for economy's sake or did they truly intend for a 23rd century freighter to use the same planform as a 20th century sleeper ship??
And the Aurora looks like a Tholian ship...weird, that.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The only civilian ship in TAS that I'm aware of is the Carter Winston shuttle. Unless you count the robot barges, but I'm pretty sure they were Starfleet.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
There was also Cyrano Jones' scoutship in "More Tribbles, More Troubles."
*scowls at Irishman*
It was a freakin' cartoon, whad'ya want???
The Huron was the shite!
-MMoM Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Yes, that be the Antares I was thinking about! Specifically the one from Bjo Tremble's Concordance.
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