I was worried for a moment that some dink had beaten me at my project. But it's not so inclusive.
More importantly, though, I see on the covers alone that Masao's Belleau Wood & Hyperion classes are on there...& isn't that one of Bernd's designs at the top on the back? I see his Springfield reconstruction peeking out at hthe bottom back there. And...was the Lynx time ship one of Aridas' creations or no?
I dunno, guys...anyone got $8.07 to DL the thing & see? I sure don't.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well if this guy didn't get permission to use those ship designs, he could get in trouble especially since he's turning up a profit.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Just selling something about Star Trek without being authorised by Paramount is copyright infringment. Not so sure about fan designs, it's not as though the original artists would have been allowed to money from them either. Presumably he'd be infringing only on Paramount's rights, rather than Masao's or Bernds?
I'm not an expert on law, by any means, all I know is, it pisses me off when people take your work and stick their name on it.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Who the hell is this guy?
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
The problem I see is if he nabbed these off of a posted website as public domain. It really gets dicey when someone filches your stuff off of some website. There is an "implied copyright" IIRC, but you would have to still have the original files that you used to create them to prove ownership. That's one of the reasons I started doing lower resolution on my site. It just sucks that it lessens the quality of the image for those who would just admire your work. I had a couple pen & ink's show up in a local publication without acknowledgement or remuneration. It just wasn't worth the effort to go after them as it was being done as a charitable fundraiser. I would have allowed them to use them for free (with acknowledgement) if they would've simply asked.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Putting stuff on the Web does not automatically place it in the public domain. Posted by Idontlikeusernames (Member # 1925) on :
Ahh...... public domain and the internet, one of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of copyright law is the fallacious assumption that because something is posted on the internet it is somehow placed within the public domain and therefore free for all to use (with or without acknowledgements to the original author) as they please. Now the basic thing they taught me was that, pursuant to the Berne convention which automatically establishes copyrights on almost all creations right from their inception onwards (whether they're tagged as copyrighted or not is actually irrelevant according to the convention, although it might be relevant in several national jurisdictions around the world)that it's in fact illegal to download or copy any data from the internet unless one of the following exceptions applies: a) the work is created by the government (sometimes government funded organizations fall under this category as well, though not always), b) the copyright has expired, c) the creator or copyright holder has abandoned the copyright, d) the owner expressly releases the work into the public domain or e) the use is covered by acceptable exceptions.
Not surprisingly most legal problems arise from that last category since it tends to vary not only between jurisdictions but often also between cases in the same jurisdictions what exactly qualifies as an �acceptable� exception.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Just email this guy and tell him he stole someones work, threaten him with legal action, and he'll most likely remove this thing than risk thousands of dollars in lawsuits. I've seen this before.
I was looking for some models for the game "Flatout" (Shitty game by the way) and I came accross a forum where everyone was bitching about this guy who stole a bunch of peoples car models and skins and compiled them into a big mod and charged $4 per download. Needless to say he got the reaming of his life and he took down his file rather than risk getting sued.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Oh yeah it happens all the time with mods in Starfleet Command and Bridge Commander. I couldn't tell you how many times people have used ships in a mod even though they did not ask the author's permission. One guy did it even on two seperate occasion, even when he was caught the first time!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
"Compiled, illustrated and ripped off by John Bullerwell"
Sad thing is, I'd love to see all those designs in one place- as a free download and with credit given to the real designers, not this fuckwad.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
There are even official designs in there too. The Freedom, Akira, Excelsior and so on.
If only you could add reviews without having to actually buy it.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
You could talk to one of LuLu's live help admins.....maybe ask them if he has permission to use other peoples designs? Maybe even send a link to one of the ships in question on the SFM site? Because if he's passing it off as his work and lying to the publisher then they won't be happy....
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I'll only be happy if I see this guy's head on a platter.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Keep an eye to see if it disappears.....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Now, now....it's possible that all those designs are his and that everyone else (inclusing Paramount) has been ripping him off for 30 plus years...
That Probert guy's always been a little shifty, if you ask me. Posted by Idontlikeusernames (Member # 1925) on :
If one should want to threaten legal action in this case I'd recommend directing it at the publisher not the author since it's always best to target the one who stands to lose the most. In this case the author doesn't stand to lose all that much (assuming of course he can cough up the fine)but is otherwise free to commit the same offense again under a different pseudonym whereas the publisher stands to lose some of their good name and hence a portion of their business. Plus if one sues the publisher, the publisher is in turn likely to sue the author.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Wow Idontlikeusernames you know alot about law, could you be my lawyer? Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
This publisher seems to be an intarweb vanity press.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Idontlikeusernames: Ahh...... public domain and the internet, one of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of copyright law is the fallacious assumption that because something is posted on the internet it is somehow placed within the public domain and therefore free for all to use (with or without acknowledgements to the original author) as they please.
That's the problem, YOU may know that the net isn't "Public Domain" but the idiots that rip you off don't. The other problems is the "It was on the Internet so it MUST be true" people.
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Well, �4 wasn't too much so I went and bought it. Not very impressive. No sources given within the listing so you have no way of knowing which ships came from where.
The last page of the PDF reads like this:
Acknowledgements
Fandom is a big place. That’s what 40 years of material inevitable brings. But there are a few, particularly helpful websites I need to mention that graciously allowed me to include their excellent material in this body of work.
www.ex-astris-scientia.org Bernd Schneider’s excellent resource of technical material includes the EAS Fleet Yards, a section of starships designed and detailed by Bernd himself. Designed using very strict guidelines that Bernd has set out “what make a good starship design”, the entire site is a resource familiar to all fans with internet access.
www.starfleet-museum.org Masao Okazaki’s website detailing the early vessels of Starfleet and the Federation, the incredible vessels here are designed are all of special historical importance to the Fleet. Again, like Bernd’s site, the starships Masao has designed follow logical design rules and are also considered by most fans as the ‘real’ early history of the Federation.
Besides these two excellent sites, many other related sites were of special help when compiling this listing. And while some have drifted off into internet history, others still remain as valuable technical resources and sources of entertainment. These include, but are not limited to:
So if your designs appear on any of those sites, its prbably in there.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by A. Moron: Websites I need to mention that graciously allowed me to include their excellent material in this body of work.
www.starfleet-museum.org Masao Okazaki’s website detailing the early vessels of Starfleet and the Federation, the incredible vessels here are designed are all of special historical importance to the Fleet. Again, like Bernd’s site, the starships Masao has designed follow logical design rules and are also considered by most fans as the ‘real’ early history of the Federation.
quote:Originally posted by Masao: Who the hell is this guy?
Sometimes, you've just got to laugh.
And kill.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
So I assume that this guy will generously share any profit he makes with the creators of these starships.
Oh wait, Masao doesn't know who he is, well then I guess this means only thing: shit storm.
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
This from the automatic e-mail I got when I purchased:
I just wanted to pass along my thanks for purchasing the StarFleet Registry. The list contained within was compiled over a long period of time, and was mostly a personal project. I only decided to publish on LuLu when I realized how easy it would be to make myself a professional-looking book from my efforts. The illustrations for the book were done in Adobe Illustrator, and were almost as time-consuming as compiling the list. Again, thank you for your purchase, and I hope you enjoy the book.
!!!!
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads lately, but I haven't seen you in a while, Steve. When I saw "Identity Crisis" listed as the poster, a stupid little nostalgic "gee, nice to see one of the old crowd from r.a.s.t" grin spread over my face. I've got to run right now, but more on all this when I get home from church.
--Jonah
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Home again.
Okay... I admit I'm pulling from every Trek source I can find for my �ber-chronology of the Federation Starfleet, but I wouldn't dream of publishing anything without express permission from anyone whose design(s) or idea(s) I incorporate into my Big Picture�. And that seems only appropriate. I am often amazed at how my view of fleet structure and nomenclature has shifted over the years, due almost entirely to the people I've talked, argued, and -- occasionally -- fought with over the matter. Rick and Mike, Andy, Shane, Todd and David, the other David, Bernd, Spike, Chris, Steve, Timo... The list of acknowledgements is a long one. All of you guys have forced me to continually re-examine my assumptions, and occasionally overturn them.
And jackals like this guy seriously honk me off. I wonder if he even realises what he's done. Bad enough to use material without permission, but to then acknowledge the sites he stole from? Seems almost like a challenge to me. I mean an old-fashioned, slap-across-the-face-and-throw-down-the-gauntlet challenge. And this ignoramus probably doesn't even know he's done it...
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Identity Crisis: This from the automatic e-mail I got when I purchased:
I just wanted to pass along my thanks for purchasing the StarFleet Registry. The list contained within was compiled over a long period of time, and was mostly a personal project. I only decided to publish on LuLu when I realized how easy it would be to make myself a professional-looking book from my efforts. The illustrations for the book were done in Adobe Illustrator, and were almost as time-consuming as compiling the list. Again, thank you for your purchase, and I hope you enjoy the book.
!!!!
Well that's just telling fibs. I can see my Surak schematic right there on the cover.
A more accurate statement would be that the "illustrations" were TRACED in Adobe Illustrator. I use Paint Shop Pro (still), I think Masao uses Macromedia Freehand & I'm pretty sure Bernd uses iGrafx Designer.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
And I'm the poor overzealous idiot who's creating them all in 1:1 scale in CATIA, from preliminary drawings done in AutoCAD.
--Jonah
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Funnily enough, the link on Shik's first post now leads to an almost blank page, except for the words 'Item not available'.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Well. Looks like he got skunked.
Good.
One thing to do freeware, another thing entirely to make money.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
All of Coruscant celebrates.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Publishers don't like liars, because they would be on the hook as well. Keep an eye out that he doesn't try this again though!
Posted by Idontlikeusernames (Member # 1925) on :
And Copyright Triumphs once again (though I do hope Paramount/ Viacom has sent the punk a notice concerning trademark violations as well).
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Even if he attributes the sources, if he doesn't have PERMISSION from those sources he is breaking the law. Willing to bet the publisher wants the money back from him.
Posted by Idontlikeusernames (Member # 1925) on :
Relax, it was just a joke, I was being sarcastic. In this particular case for once the law did what it was intended to do in the first place if you only saw all the inane cases that I've seen you'd find this one funny too precisely because it is an exception.
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
I'm both flattered and pissed that this guy used two of my pages. *hmph*
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
...Huh. Don't we have a "Wee Bairns" here as well?
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Maybe someone should email him!
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Ay Carumba!
I reviewed my email and found that John Bullerwell actually contacted me back in January. I gave him permission to include data from my site. He told me he redrew the ship images.
So, sorry to John for forgetting I had given him permission.
I've sent him an email inviting him here.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
But....did he re-draw your stuff?
Maybe we've got the guy all wrong and he's gotten permission from all sources (obviously not Paramount). I'd be intrested to see if he's credited the designers though- the cover seems to say "no".
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
The sample page I was given was clearly redrawn as monchrome line art; my stuff is always shaded and in color.
Did he contact any of the other designers? How about Bernd?
Anyway, I get lots of requests to use my stuff, so I often forget who I've given permission to, then accuse someone of theft. Then they remind me that I gave them permission. Damn!
By the way, Lulu.com, the ePublisher that this book comes from, has (or at least "had" in January when I checked) a whole section called "Star Trek" that includes fan fiction. I'm sure it's violating all sorts of copyright laws.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Masao: The sample page I was given was clearly redrawn as monchrome line art; my stuff is always shaded and in color.
Did he contact any of the other designers? How about Bernd?
Anyway, I get lots of requests to use my stuff, so I often forget who I've given permission to, then accuse someone of theft. Then they remind me that I gave them permission. Damn!
Same here, though lately I've gotten in the habbit of ignoring requests. Not being mean, but it's been about 2 years since I've even done any trek work & the constant parade of RPG groups requesting use of my work got a bit annoying. As far as this guy goes, I'm not sure, he may have asked but I generally don't permitt people to use my stuff to make a profit. Just the other day I turned down a bloke who wanted to use some of my logos to print on mugs, t-shirts & the like. Though I have made a few exceptions in the past.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
"My god, Bones, what have I done?"
"You f*cked up."
First of all, I want to thank Masao for gettting ahold of me about this.
And apologize even before I start.
The book in question was never intended to make me a profit. It was simply a private way for me to make myself a book solely for my own use, because my Lexmark-printed amateur copy looked, quite frankly, crappy. LuLu.com was featured on an episode of Call For Help, a Canadian tech show on how to print your own books easily and cheaply. So I decided 'what the heck', lets do that. Before printing the thing off, I emailed Masao and Bernd asking them if it was permissible to put their designs in it since I had used so damn many of their excellent designs. Both responded positively. I did indeed retrace most of the vessels in Illustrator, as Reverend correctly surmised. I wanted a nice, clean look to it, since I had originally intended to print off a copy with my own crappy printer. This is an example of the art, using Masao's own Moskva-class.
When I put the whole project up on Lulu to make the book, I wanted my copy to look as good as I was capable of making it.
Now comes the part where I made a grevious mistake for which I am sorry, and intend to rectify as best I can...
In the options, I made it purchasable for sale if someone wanted it. In my mistaken minds-eye, I guess I thought no one would want a huge list of numbers and a few pictures, except for a Trek-nerd with a hard-on for lists. (Like myself.) And thus, my personal copy would be the only sale...Copyright laws and such never even entered into my foggy mind for some reason...hell, I put Star Trek in it's title...After reading this thread and going to Lulu to remove the damned thing from the site, I found the actual profit I 'made' in total is apperantly 8 dollars and some change American. The project had already been removed from Lulu for-sale listing (presumably someone reported it, rightfully so). I have completely removed the project from Lulu's server. I will gladly refund anyone who bought the book (3 other people besides myself, it seems). Identity Crisis, please contact me via private message or email me at [email protected], and I'll PayPal you a refund immediately.
I really have no excuse for my stupidity, I apologize. I'm a dumbass. Continue calling me names,please, I deserve it.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Wee Bairns, since I'm the one that found it, Iet me say this: I did not post the link to bring undue wrath upon you. I found it, saw it, & went "Huh...I know those ships!" & posted it so that the people whose intellectiual property were aware. Had they gone "Oh yeah, that's So-&-so's stuff, & I rememebr him asking" then no harm. But of course if NOT...well.
I don't think anyone thinks any less of you (especially given your penitent comments) & I for one don't hold it against you. I see it simple as a case of "looking out for our own." In this case, another one of our own got slightly. My apologies for any problems you might've had.
Also, I hope you've learned from your experience with internet vanity presses. Tecthy things, they are.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Good on You Wee Bairns! Maybe you made a mistake, but your correction of that mistake is first rate.
And if I may say you're drawings are nicely done.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I love happy endings.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
John, infringing on Paramount's copyright is something most of us fan designers and artists have done from time to time. The whole field of Trek tech fandom would likely not exist if copyright laws were strictly adhered to. Whether or not you or Lulu.com makes a profit off of Paramount is your business and your risk.
However, the morality/legality of infringing on and profiting from Paramount's copyright is not what concerned me. I suspect what most fan artists and designers are concerned about is the use of their own designs and other works without permission or recognition. Although fan works are clearly derived from Paramount's property since they exist in the Trek universe, we spend a lot of time and effort producing them and feel that we should, at the very least, receive some recognition for our efforts and have some say in how our works are used. Unfortunately, we usually don't have any say or receive any recognition, since the Internet is a wild frontier where fan works are often perceived to be in the public domain since they are already "rip-offs" of Paramount property and not deserving of any legal protection. However, when we do see our works being used without permission or recognition, we reverse the right to get pissed off.
In every case when someone has asked to use my designs, I have said yes. I always thank him for asking, since I know he could have easily used them without asking. Asking is the nice thing to do.
So, John, I'd buy a copy of your book!
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Someone should host it!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhh, I like that blue-line drawing!!
Do you have all of the ships in that style?? I've always wanted to see the ships in profile done all in the same way - everyone seems to just use the black and white ones from the encyclopaedia but they are all done in a different style.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Makotokat: Someone should host it!
Fuck yes. Really, wee Bairns has a fantastic idea here and, if we could make it an kinda "open source" thing where additions could be submitted, it would rock even further....
...but that leads (sorta) into the realms of (the mostly very good) JOAT and (the mostly awful) Starship Schematic Database wherein any awful kitbash is accepted.
Still, I'd love to see all that stuff gathered online for download (artists credited, of course).
Even moreso, I'd love to see one huuuuge ship-size-comparison chart. I loves those! Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
My god, you guys are a forgiving bunch. (I'm not complaining, mind you. After my blunder, I expected more hostility.) I very much appreciate your understanding.
As for the Illustrator tracings I did, yes, they are all in that blue monochrome styling. A few more examples...
The Connie refit:
FASA's Continent class...
Todd Guenther's classic Durance...
Masao's Wasp...
As for my effort being released, if Identity Crisis wanted to put the pdf up for download, he's more than welcome to. Just don't expect much from it, guys. Like he mentioned, it doesn't list where each number's source is from (like most NCC lists) simply because only I wanted to make myself a nice uncluttered list of names/numbers. And with fans always creating more ships (and thus registries), the work would never actually be complete. I'm sure I've missed thousands of numbers. Or will miss. Or whatever.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
WB's work will tide us over nicely until Jonah & I finish our respective works. The 3 of us would be wonderfully supplementary to each other.
(As an aside/minor update: currently at 38,190 entries, NCC-1 through 24806 inclusive fully completed, class in progress: Niagara)
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wee Bairns: As for my effort being released, if Identity Crisis wanted to put the pdf up for download, he's more than welcome to.
Ironic, as my, sadly not very often updated, web site wasn't one of the ones referenced as a source.
(And very soon I'm going to be really glad that I moved host and got a gazillion times more bandwidth...)
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Hey this book is pretty God damn good. Kudos Wee Bairns, I no longer desire your head on a platter.
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
Very nice......
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Um... Chris pointed this out to me, as I didn't take a very close look. You may want to flip the drawings WB. All those ships are facing right and have their gangway hatches shown, which would mean they're on the starboard side, which they aren't.
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I feel bad for complaining now, he's only nicked two of my drawings and one is a design that I disowed almost immediatly. Mind you it looks allot better in monochrome than it did when I drew it. Anyway WB, all is forgiven, honest mistake, no harm done.
quote:Um... Chris pointed this out to me, as I didn't take a very close look. You may want to flip the drawings WB. All those ships are facing right and have their gangway hatches shown, which would mean they're on the starboard side, which they aren't. [Wink]
--Jonah
They are on the Surak, coz I say so. Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Um... Chris pointed this out to me, as I didn't take a very close look. You may want to flip the drawings WB. All those ships are facing right and have their gangway hatches shown, which would mean they're on the starboard side, which they aren't.
I got in the habit of pointing my ships to the left because: 1) I draw everything (starships, airplanes, dinosaurs, naked ladies) from the head, and that's easier for this right-hander when the head is on the left; 2) I restarted designing starships by Xeroxing pictures from Ships of the Star Fleet, which were always oriented this way, and 3) airplane profiles, which I grew up drawing, usually show the left side of the planes, since that's where the pilot enters from and puts his personal markings.
Do any of you have a preference for orientation?
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Pointing left, as well -- and I'm a lefty. Go figure. I think I subconsciously also got started because of the aerospace tradition of doing so. Every single one of the starships, boats, cars, aeroplanes, and just about anything else that can have an orientation I've designed have all pointed due left.
It's like petting a cat. In the Western/European tradition, one reads from left to right, and from top to bottom. So your eyes are trained to look from stem to stern. Turn the ship the other way and you're looking up its skirt...
Don't get me wrong, I admire a fine ass as much as anyone (organic or in-), but studying a ship "backwards" feels to me like trying to rub a cat's fur the wrong way.
--Jonah
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Yeah, I also do all my stuff pointing left as well.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Pointing to the right for me. No idea why, just habit I suppose. Mind you ships/planes that point left give me the odd impression that they're moving away from my eye somehow. Which makes no sense at all I know, it's just an impression. Insidentally I'm right handed and draw from the top right to the middle, then from the bottom left to the middle.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Not strange, Rev. I read once that the convention in cartoons and comics is that leftward motion is backwards and rightward motion is forward, since in Western countries we read from left to right.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
I can't honestly say what made me choose to have the ships facing to the right, but it does bring up the issue of gangways or other features being 'reversed' in a few of my tracings. Fortunately, the vast majority of Trek vessels are pretty much symmetrical, so it isn't a problem for most.
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
TOS and TOS Movie era ships had one gangway hatch, on the port side. Hence the term "port" - its the side you dock at port with.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
And starboard, obviously, is the side that movie stars use to get on board the ship, when they don't want to face the paparazzi hiding out on the port side.
The TMP enterprise docking hatch is one of the VERY rare instances of a non-symmetrical feature. Even NX-01 had coking ports on both sides, and used them both (though the starboard one got used more frequently - probably because of the larger nubmer of name-brand actors that were guesting).
Mark
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Another reason for the right facing preference of some is that the Star Trek Encylopedia does is that way. (I think)
On the hand, the Matt Jeffries blueprints in the old "Making of Star Trek" and Franz Josephs in "The Starfleet Technical Manual" had them facing left. I think that's how I started drawing them that way.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Can we see MORE of these blue and white ships? Maybe a large table of them?
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Here are a few more images, some that didn't appear in the book because they are civilian or didn't have 'normal' registration numbers....
The Aakenn class freighter...
The Reverend's design for the Antares..(wouldn't it be great if the remastered TOS used the Concordance as an insperation?
The Bonaventure...
One of fandom's designs for the Kobayashi Maru...
The MacPhearson class...
Masao's Predator...
Last Unicorn Games' design for the Rigel...
And the Soyuz, which illustrates the point of my right-facing ships and the docking hatches being incorrect... Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Do you have more modern ships done in this way?? Like the Voyager or the Relativity?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
One other thing - some TOS ships have more 'detail' the others - like the Bonaventure compared to the Antares - on the latter you include the gridlines on the saucer. Makes a few of the 'TOS' ships look a little less... complex.
I like the ships done like this - reminds me of the TNG Technical Manual.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
I certainly see where you're coming from about the detai in some of the vessels. And in some of the newer, larger vessels, I had to have a compromise between detail and size. Putting all the windows on the Sovvie, for instance, would be damn near impossible without at the size I was working with.
Some newer-era vessels. Sorry, no Relativity..
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I printed your book today- nice job there. ...though you completely forgot the warp grille (blue glowy part) of the Olympic's nacelle!
I'm curious to know what your reasoning was in useing some FASA designs (Chandly for example) and not others.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Because the Chandley is cool and most of the others are ass...?
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I printed your book today- nice job there. ...though you completely forgot the warp grille (blue glowy part) of the Olympic's nacelle!
No he didn't. The Olympic's grills only face inwards, like the Connie, so they're not visible from the side.
Can't say as I approve of the Kobayash Maru design, but then I'm biased. Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I printed your book today- nice job there. ...though you completely forgot the warp grille (blue glowy part) of the Olympic's nacelle!
I'm curious to know what your reasoning was in useing some FASA designs (Chandly for example) and not others.
Yeah, Reverend sums up why the Olympic's nacelle looks so devoid of detail. It's really jarring in a monocrome schematic like that, too. As for including some FASA ships and not others, it's hard to find really decent scans of some of the older designs and at the time I was 'ready' to print off my copy I was pretty much tired of the project and done with the drawings for the time being. Mind you, since I got my copy printed off, I have about traced aound 50 more starships that didn't show up in the 'book', from various sources ranging from FASA to the JoAT and others...
Posted by Makotokat (Member # 1041) on :
You've been busy.....nice work!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Does anyone have any info on that 'verticle' ship from that starship recognition chart? It was the 'first' in the top right corner. It was a white and brown chart - we've discussed it here before and realised that the first three seem to be the Ring Ship divided into three - but I was thinking there must be some sort of non 'sillohette' pic of it/diagram?
So any chance of getting a size comparison chart of all these ships (since they are all the same)?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
The Ariadne-class.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
If you go to the forum at www.federationreference.com , you can find the creators of the poster there. They've been updating some of the ships.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I'm glad that this issue could be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. John: Now that I have seen some (excellent!) samples of your work, I remember that you indeed contacted me. I wish you the best luck with it, and let me know if I can be of further assistance.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
And thus, my personal copy would be the only sale...Copyright laws and such never even entered into my foggy mind for some reason...hell, I put Star Trek in it's title...After reading this thread and going to Lulu to remove the damned thing from the site, I found the actual profit I 'made' in total is apperantly 8 dollars and some change American. The project had already been removed from Lulu for-sale listing (presumably someone reported it, rightfully so). I have completely removed the project from Lulu's server.
