I'm actually, finally, sorta getting into this show. Only took 4 years. Initially I got bored with all the "They have come through the sacred relic! We must execute them immediately!" episodes. Huh, if O'Neill was still played by Kurt Russell he'd have killed them all on the spot, instead bloody MacGyver comes over all Prime Directive. . .
Anyway. I'm confused about a few things:-
1. We're seeing a lot of human-like aliens out there. Are they still sticking to the old "human slaves taken through the Stargate long ago" schtick, or are these real aliens? Is T'ealc an alien?
2. What are those P-90 guns they carry now? Do they actually exist?
3. Is it a point of honour that all SG-1 fan websites out there be totally fucking inoperable?! I mean, you can't navigate because each page seems required to have a stargate-opening sound on it!
4. Having been thwarted by (3) I'm looking for a Zat Gun sound wave, anybody got any links?
5. Tok'ra: pussies or what?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
This P-90? Showed up in The World Is Not Enough as well ... and is also available for Counter-Strike players
Yes, I know this is the airsoft model, but I'm fairly certain the gun actually does exit (Austrian military, mayhaps?)
[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
1.) The human-looking people in the show are almost always either confirmed to actually be human or their origins are simply not discussed. There are a couple of exceptions, notably the Nox, who aren't human (at least I don't think they are), but who look a lot like Armin Shimmerman on a really bad hair day. Teal'c's people are human. Their facial hair choices aren't, though. Oi.
2.) Beats me. I think everything in the show (minus the alien stuff, of course) is actual military hardware. Well, minus the remote control probes...er...and the portable wormhole.
3.) I've never been to one...
4.) ...and thus have no idea where such a file could be found.
5.) I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. They're not exactly the most trustworthy of allies, it seems. Uh...in terms of things like military strength, they don't have much, if any, outside your typical resistance commando sort.
There are people around here who watch the show more than I do (Which is to say, regularly. College is playing havoc with my TV viewing schedules.) I'm sure some of them can probably provide better answers.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Sol System ]
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Maybe someday, I'll get into this show. Maybe when I can watch the eps day to day on Sci-Fi, like I did wiht B-5 on TNT.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
We downloaded almost every episode here at work... so I've been watching it regularly.
Let me take a stab...
1. I mostly agree with Sol on this one. They usually are humans taken from Earth. Even the very advanced Tollans, I believe, were thought to be humans whose development was not impeded by the Dark Ages. Teal'c's people, The Jaffa, are Humans that have been altered and bread to carry Goa'ould larva.
2. Aban doesn't know guns.
3. Give www.scifiguide.net/stargate/index.shtml a try. I've found it to be and extremely complete episode guide. It's got info on the upcoming season, the new movie, and the spinoff series too.
4. Don't know where to get that. Though I do have the Stargate whoosh set as my incoming e-mail notification. It freaks alot of people out.
5. The Tok'ra are Goa'ould (I know I'm not spelling it right) who are fighting against the System Lords. They don't have a whole lot of power but are more advanced the the Tauri (Humans from Earth). They seem to work mostly by spying and infiltrating. They sort of go back and forth on trustworthiness. On the up-side...they have alot of hot female hosts...
I'm really liking the show because it stays very consistant for the most part and yet it's getting pretty deep into a backstory. It also has alot of recurring plot elements and has been tying up alot of loose ends.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Take a look at Jan 2000. They exist already.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That is one sweet looking gun...as guns go anyway...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think the only non-residents of Earth we've seen who aren't human are the Goa'uld (the worms, not the people they live inside of), the Nox, the Asgard, and the Erector-set aliens (what'd they call them, "replicators", or something?). Also, the aliens who were trying to "terraform" some planet, but we didn't really see them (except a hologram, I think), and I forget their name. And I'm not sure if the Tollan are supposed to be human or not. Probably they are. And they gate-builders are non-human, of course, but we haven't seen them. Oh, and the U... U... U-something. Big nasty guys that used to be Goa'uld hosts.
But, aside from that, everyone we've seen has been human. Unless I'm forgetting someone.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Interesting. I don't suppose they ever mentioned on the show why they'd suddenyl switch from MP-5s to these P-90's all of a sudden?
Yes, I like the show. Especially for the consistency of it all, like getting the Zat Guns then actually using them. In fact, I want the sound to use for my ICQ incoming message; I've had the Crusade door chime for way too long now, itself a successor to the B6 door chime before that. . .
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There is one ep where someone asks what kind of gun it is, guesses wrong, and O'Neill corrects him. But I think that's as clsoe as they ever come. to explaining the change.
The Unas were the original Goa'uld hosts. Definitely not human.
Machello wasn't human, I don't think. But I suppose it's possible. The bounty hunter, Aris Boch looked very human, but I don't thin he was. His species couldn't be used as hosts by the Goa'uld.
There have been minor technical inconsistancies with the gate, the GDOs and the DHDs along the way, but other than that, they've done a decent job.
Be careful with using that Zat gun effect for your ICQ...remember, one shot stings, the second shot kills...
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
And the third shot *poof*
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
B6 door chime? Is JMS not telling us something?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
It was going to be BS, but someone pointed out that it might be better if they stuck to the tried and true...
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: 3. Is it a point of honour that all SG-1 fan websites out there be totally fucking inoperable?! I mean, you can't navigate because each page seems required to have a stargate-opening sound on it!
One problem with the humans we see out there being descendants from slaves taken through the Stargate, I think, is the time scale. The series follows the basic set up of the movie, which means the Gate found in Egypt had been sealed and buried for something between three and four thousand years.
The difficulty with this is that some of the cultures we've seen are based on societies that existed long since then. The one based on the Mongols comes to mind, as does one where the Goa'uld seemed to be one of the deities from one of the later South American civilizations. (I may be wrong on the latter; its been a while since I saw that episode.)
Of the two known Gates on earth, the Egyptian one had been deliberately sealed after the revolt against Ra, and the one found in Antarctica had been in the ice for who knows how long. So how did any of the latter day cultures get out there? It can't be on a Gou'ald ship; the series more or less assumes the System lords left us alone after Ra's departure, or else we'd still be slaves.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
They don't really explain it... What is generally assumed by the fandom is that following the revolt against Ra, only Ra left Earth alone. The remainder of the System Lords installed and then continued to use the Antarctic gate until it became untenable. Many people think that by that point, there were plenty of subjugated planets the Goa'uld could use for slaves or hosts, and thus didn't need to bother with our backwards little planet.
Another explanation of the cultures found on other planets is one borrowed from Trek, the parallel development theory. That is, an ancient culture would probably evolve along the same lines as the Earthbound equivalent. In this case, the evolution could be considerably slower due to the abscence of conflict from other cultures (like how the Austrailian aborigine culture remained unchanged for thousands of years before a bunch of English guys screwed it up).
Mark
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Hobbes: I did originally, something didn't work. . . I'll try it again and see what I think. 8)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Hm... Interestingly enough, I always figured the Antarctic gate was the older of the two...
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Which actually makes sense. I can imagine one of the System Lords saying one day: "It's fucking cold down here, why don't we put up a gate somewhere a bit warmer?" 8)
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yes! It worked! My "Goa'uld-flashing-eye-smiley!"
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There is at least one culture that definately came through the Beta (Antarctic) Gate. The culture was based on Medieval Christianity which wouldn't have developed until long after the Alpha Gate was buried in the revolt.
However, as was suggested earlier, there were other Goa'uld on Earth besides Ra, apparently. They probably contacted the System Lords who brought another Gate to Earth. I think that these other System Lords were taking Humans to their respective worlds (Ra had Abydos, Apophis had Chulak) to mine the Naquida and serve as hosts.
In fact, Osiris and Seth have been on Earth since the Alpha Gate was sealed and were only recently dicovered. So not all of the Goa'uld left...
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: Yes! It worked! My "Goa'uld-flashing-eye-smiley!"
Cool! I wanna see.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think he means the white "8" he used for the eyes in his 8) smiley. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
They mentioned the antarctic gate being the more recently buried, and the one explaining the more recent cultures we've seen in the very episode that gate was introduced.
Plus, it sorta makes sense to put the gate in Antarctica, where none of the locals would know where it was. In Egypt, it would have been in a place that would be relatively attackable by the resident population, and indeed that's what happened. In Antarctica, there's no one around, and getting there would be tough for anyone except the Goa'uld and their mighty flying vessels.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, I remember when their collective lightbulb came on and they realized that there were two gates at the same address, they asked Teal'c if the Goa'uld would bring another gate if one became inaccessable. He said they might.
Now, this could be interpretted as asking if the Egyptian Gate would've been brought after the Antarctic one was buried or vice versa. It's been a while since I saw that ep, though, so the question may have been more clear than that though.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I just figured the Antarctic gate was older, because Antarctica has been under ice for a lot longer than the Egyptian gate had been underground. Of course, if we assume that the Antarctic gate was installed in the ice on purpose, that changes everything...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The thing is though, that they basically established the burying of the Egyptian gate at around 3000 BC, IIRC. We've seen Christian and Viking cultures in the series that obviously post-date that date. They had to get the people off the planet somehow, and the series mythology leads us to believe that their ships weren't capable of traveling very fast until just recently (Teal'c thought motherships traveled at only 10c and cargo ships at 2c, but both were proven wrong fairly quickly). So the second gate must be the newer one.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, were the Norse people taken off-world by Goa'uld or Asgard?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think the Norse were taken off-world by the Gou'ald, but thereafter, protected by the Asgard. However, I also seem to remember a line in one of the eps about the Asgard visiting Earth and also posing as gods.
Hmmm...
Posted by TLE (Member # 280) on :
The second gate I think is the Egyptian one. I do believe they used the older gate (Antartica) to get more slaves off planet but I couldn't give you an exact quote or ep on it.
<-- something someone cooked up a while ago.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Here's one I just made. First smilie I've ever made.
[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
LOL! Those are great.
Here's what I want to know though...how have they explained (or have they explained) why the alien that Ra was in the movie looked like a full sized humanoid, while the baddies in the series are just little snakes?
There's a tough one for ya.
Other incosistancies in the series/movie change over: 1) Creek mountain was changed to Cheyenne Mountain. 2) O'niell's son's name was changed from Tyler to Charlie. 3) There was no DHD for the Abydos Gate in the movie (or any means of controlling the Gate whatsoever) but there is one in the first ep of the series.
The change from General West to General Hammond was thankfully explained in the first episode and mentioned again in a later episode.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I figured the alien was what the Goa'uld used for hosts before humans.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Could've been. But at the end of the movie when Ra uses the hand thing, is whole face starts to glow and you can see the alien form start to appear sort of under his skin or something.
Posted by TLE (Member # 280) on :
Probably they did it to make the Goa'uld more evil or scary. I guess they though the snake-like Goa'uld looked better than the human-sized one. Also the name change for O'Neil's son is likely going to be "Charlie was more popular than Tyler" or something. I hadn't paid that close attention to the movie compared to the series.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, they needed a way for the Goa'uld to be able to "possess" people and they needed them to be able to show up all the time. If they were humanoid size, that wouldn't be very easy to do. The snakes make alot more sense, it's just not easy to reconsile with the movie.
The only time O'Niell's son's name was seen in the movie was on a pipcture frame or something, so it's easy enough to dismiss. The name of the mountain, though, was pretty clearly shown in the movie. I wonder why they changed it? Besdies the fact that Cheyenne sounds cooler than Creek. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Also, the rank, first name, and backstory wrt Col. O'Neil(l) of our good man Kowalsky were changed between the movie and the TV show. And between some of the episodes of the TV show, too... SG-1 is good on continuity, better than any Trek, but not infallible.
I don't think we have to assume Ra had a different type of alien body, really. In "Serpent's Song", we see that when the parasitic li'l devil dies, time suddenly catches up with the host. Apophis had a host body that was a thousand year old or more, and it withered and died pretty rapidly after Apophis was gone.
Ra, who supposedly discovered the humans, would have an even older host than Apophis - this host could turn into dust in a matter of seconds, with all sorts of associated weird chemical effects to produce inner glow etc.
As for the relative ages of the gates, I like the idea that the Antarctica one stayed open longer. However, that's no reason to assume it was *installed* after the Egyptian one. For all we know, there could have been Ancient gates on Earth long before Ra. And Earth might once have had dozens of gates, being an important hub and source of slave and host trade. But then the Goa'uld overextended themselves, and had to move many gates from Earth to other planets to maintain their growing empire. The last one (apart from the buried two) would have been pulled out in the medieval times... We don't really even know if they can manufacture a gate on their own, or if they are simply moving existing Ancient gates from place to place. Only the Tollan (the guys who waltz through walls) have demonstrated real indigenous gatebuilding capability.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, the problem with the idea of having dozens of gates on earth is that only one gate works on a planet at a time, as we've seen. It wouldn't make alot of sense to have more than one gate on a planet...unless of course each gate belonged to a different Goa'uld and was kept on a different part of the planet and they all just sort of had to wait until noone else was using a gate to send their hosts through. However, incoming wormholes would default to to a single gate, which would undoubtedly present problems.
The Ancients built the gates and we know the Goa'uld can't build them themselves. The Tollan seem to be able to build similar devices, although they're not exactly the same.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
They seem better, in fact.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
the p90 is made in belgium by fabrique nationale. it fires a 5.7 mm round from a 50 round magazine that utilizes a rotary feed system (in other words, each round is perpendicular to the breech, and then is rotated 90 degrees at the feed mouth and is inserted into the chamber). sweet little gun.
<-- something someone cooked up a while ago.
