There was something about The Matrix that I never quite got: was the Matrix an AI in and of itself, or was it just a construct made by other AIs?
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
It was yo momma! Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
The Matrix was the consensual hallucination programmed by the AIs, an artifical construct built with one purpose: To enslave the human race mentally, and turn them into batteries.
The AIs had previously tried to make the Matrix a paradise for humans, but they apparently didn't have the programming language needed to represent humanities perfect world, and people rejected it.
It was changed into a representation of the apex of mankind's civilization, the year 1999. It isn't mentioned in the movie if all of the world lives in an avatar New York or not, but I think they probably do. It would be easier to track them all in a massive self-indexed city than across different geographic locations.
Thus, while the Matrix itself was a vast prorgram, an operating system, but it wasn't self-aware. It was patrolled by self-aware programs, called Agents, who effectivly represented every asshole IRC cop and evil administrator in existence.
The heroes were the heroic hackers, the ones that want to free your mind.
Sorry. I watched it last night.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I watched Black Hawk Down tonight, last night, Wednesday night, and twice on Tuesday (except, of course, two go down).
I want a mini-gun. Bwaaaaaw! Boy, those things could shoot.
Since that won't happen, I want a Colt M1911 .45. Man those Delta guys can shoot. No wonder they get paid the big bucks.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
I'm watching Black Hawk Down later tonight. I will be drunk, well fed, and expecting carnage.
Watched Insomnia last night too. If you like film noir, you should check it out. Christopher Nolan is quickly becoming one of my favorite directors.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I did see it, last week.
Great film! I loved that Alaskan scenery ...
Best line:
"I want to surprise the boyfriend in school, pull him right out of school. Let's go."
"Uh ..."
"Yes?"
"It's ten o'clock."
"Yah, let's go."
"At night."
"..."
Al Pacino's weapon is an M1911 .45! The same as often seen in BHD. Cool weapon. Ahhhh ...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Nice troll attempt, Jeff.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
my favorite scene from Insomnia:
"It's so fucking bright in here."
"No it's not. It's dark."
She turns on the lights, and you see just how dark it really was...
Robin Williams was pretty good as the bad guy. I didn't see what the problem with him being the heavy was. In many ways, it wasn't even the main thrust of the movie.
Just saw Black Hawk Down. I could go on about it for quite some time. But instead, I'll just say "Wow."
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Black Hawk Down was good, but not as good as the 1999 movie Three Kings with George Clooney. The one movie where Ice Cube can act!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"Three Kings" was shit. While I'm at it, "Ocean's Eleven" was shit. Clooney needed to take his cock in the ass & stop fucking around with classic films. He'll never, ever be able to do them right.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
I would say something stupid regarding the topic and me but like I said it would be stupid.
The Matrix is like a internet multiplayer game that everyone is hooked up to. Like Starcraft, the players which you play against are the humans, and B.net is the Matrix itself. That's the closest I can figure out how I can say it.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Ocean's Eleven--another great film. Far superior to the horrible original. (see signature) Clooney's not a bad actor, certainly not as bad as, say, Owen "They're farin' at us" Wilson or Ben Stiller. Brendan Fraser and Adam Sandler aren't too great, either.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers: Ocean's Eleven--another great film. Far superior to the horrible original.
You're a fucking idiot.
quote:Also originally posted by Veers: Clooney's not a bad actor
But he needs to stop thinking he can do fucking remakes. First "Kelly's Heroes," then "Ocean's 11?" Man, I SO hope someone finds a way t'bring The Chairman back so he can clout Clooney about the fuckin' head. What's next? "The Great Escape?" "Bullitt?" "Operation Petticoat?" "Mister Roberts?" "The Maltese Falcon?"
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
It's nice to see that we can freely share opinions. Oh wait, no it isn't.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Ocean's 11 isn't a GREAT movie, yes, but it isn't terrible. And it's better than the 1960 one.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Let's try to steer this thread back to the topic Omega had in mind, shall we?
The Matrix, as far as I understand, is basically an elaborate computer program that all of enslaved humanity is tied into. It isn't an AI entity, but it controlled by the AI robots and such. If it helps, the AI's are the users, the enslaved humans are the system resources, and the Matrix is the operating system.
The purpose of the Matrix, as Matrix said earlier, was to keep the minds of the enslaved humans occupied in a realistic world so that they can harvest energy most efficiently from them. I'm wondering if the machines also get some of their energy from the mental exertions made by the humans. After all, its all pretty elaborate and complex if you're just going to suck off the electricity produced by humans.
[ June 16, 2002, 16:41: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i liked george clooney a lot in o brother. i thought blackhawk down sucked, but thats mostly because jerry bruckheimer is the sign of the beast.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Ocean's 11 is a cool film, very well executed. Problem is, the more you think about the plot, the less plausible it becomes and the more holes appear.
Like:
The Casino calls the cops, and one SWAT team van appears? No support units?
The back part of the casino was a lot easier to get into than they initially made out.
Andy Garcia can easily identify at least one member of the gang: the old guy Sol, because an old friend uses his real name.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
The Matrix seemed infinitely more like what thoughtychops described than an MMORPG by Blizzard. In fact, it'd be more like a MMOSPS. Where each of the 'S' stand for SLAVE!
LOL!1
HLP LAG PLZ!!11
SOJ DUPES!! OMG OMG!
Yeah, it's not like battle.net.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The Matrix is what Everquest becomes after a couple centuries...
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Curt Shilling plays Everquest.
Posted by CaptAlabin (Member # 733) on :
BHD was by far the better of Bruckheimer's more recent films. I really did not care for Ocean's Eleven. I have always wondered what was the basis for Neo's powers? Were they some type of psychic thing?
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
They never really explained that.
Or why the Oracle was able to tell the future.
Also: Why could they talk to the "Real" world on cell phones, but not exit through them?
The movie had quite a few plot holes. I'm cool with plot glitches if they'll try and explain some of it in the next movie.
Meanwhile: Black Hawk Down rated a "Wow" because it's been awhile since I've seen something that violent. You know, they actually REDUCED the amount of fire the convoy was taking for the movie...the producers thought that it would be unrealistic to show how much they really received.
It's amazing to me that any of the Americans made it out alive, much less suffering only 18 deaths. (the 19th died later in critical care.)
The film misrepresented a few facts, but...I dunno. I had to cut them some slack. The book it was based on followed the experiences of something like ninety soldiers that day, and included the Somali perspective too, although to a much lesser degree.
It's hard to condense something like that into a two hour movie. For the most part, I got everything I needed to know about those guys. They were guys doing their job. They got thrown into an impossible situation due to (in one way or another) bullshit politics, the mission got fucked up, and they spent the next fifteen hours fighting to get out alive from a deathtrap.
As a film dealing with soldiers dealing with the impossible situation, it's a success.
My only beef with the film is that the only characters from the Somalia perspective were simple one dimensional killers. So...as a film about the facts? It's a failure.
A failure with lots of shit 'sploding.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I really dug Matrix. I think the explanations provided thus far are pretty on the money. The thing with the cell phones, I didn't really consider a problem. The cell phones were made by the hackers in their staging program just like everything else they brought with them. They didn't provide a hard line into the program like certain phone lines did.
As for the Agents, I thought the whole concept was really well done. Independantly running, self aware monitoring programs running within the Matrix, but not necessarily part of it. Remember when the main Agent dude wanted a bit of privacy with Morpheus? He took the little ear piece out which evidently cut him off from the rest of the Agents, the AI units running everything, and his ability to monitor the Matrix itself.
Neo's abilities seem to stem from an instinctual understanding and ability to manipulate the physical laws created by the computer program. But you're right... they never really explained it. They did say that there had been another with that ability, though... and apparently within the lifetime of the Oracle.
I'm hoping they explain more about the Oracle in the next two movies...though I have a hunch she's going to die. She seems to still be tied into the Matrix... how else would she know what's going on? But yet, she remains undetected by the Agents. If she's already been freed from the Matrix... that means she's sitting in a chair somewhere, probably in Zion, with someone feeding her through a tube and wiping the drool off her face... I don't really like that image. Sort of takes something away from the character.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
That's probably what it's going to be, some kind of old cripple, hooked to the matrix. Imagine how much she would know...all the wisdom of all that life. Her body wasted away in reality, but her mind still sharp as a tack.
I'm thinking it would be cool if the Oracle was Zion's mainframe, though. A benefical AI, some kind of weather prediction program come alive. The AI behind weather prediction would eventually come to understand that what it did it did to save and enrich human lives...maybe that would somehow translate to compassion through mathematics...explaining her Mother persona, her ability to see the future, and her mysteriousness all in one swoop.
Or maybe it's a hokey idea. But fuck it, that's how I'd write it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Actually... I really dig the idea of it being Zion's mainframe. That's really cool. Morph said she had been with them since the beginning.
Maybe the Agents will figure it out and try to kidnap the Oracle in order to hack into Zion?
The previews I've seen show Morpheus speaking of a predestined time or event or something. Seems very Oracle-ish.
My question is.. If Neo is now Uber Hacker... and can do whatever he wants... where's the challenge? Will he meet up with some other all powerful guy? Or will the AI create someone as powerful as he is?
I guess even he can't be everywhere at once, so everyone else will still have ot be on their toes.
Man... I hope Trin doesn't die... she's way too hot.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
I'm thinking that the Agents will get some of those Almost-Messiah Kids, and corrupt them. Neo can fuck the Agents up because they're programs; He wouldn't be able to do that with human minds on a similar level with his own.
I'm sure that they'll want to keep some of the mind-bending aspects to the film, try and top it concept wise. The Matrix is just a construct, a program. But, what about the computer(s) housing it? Surely they have multiple programs running...wouldn't they have a matrix for the machine minds to chill out in? And would Neo have any power there?
You want to destroy the machines? You have to take the fight to them, on their turf. Impossible to do physically, because, well, their machines, and would fuck you up. But what about in the computer's own cyber-Zion? The aim would be to Not just destroy the matrix, but destroying their computer minds, to free humanity.
I dunno. In bored moments at work and so on I've thought about where they'll go in the next one, and stuff like that is the only thing that makes sense. Well, I was really bored, anyway.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
The actress who played Oracle died a few months ago, but she was able to finish the second Matrix before she died.
The next movie:$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Will involve Neo fighting a new program bent on destroying the matrix or something. That program will spawn new agents capable of taking on Neo one on one. Smith finding himself obsolete, makes up a temprary alliance with Neo. Somehow Smith in this movie can clone himself.
I dunno, sounds like Blade 2 and other movies.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
hmmm. Thanks for the one line spoiler warning.
I like my plot better.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Sounds kind of interesting, but I don't know if I like the idea of a new enemy before the old one is even really dealt with. I mean, like thoughty mentioned... the robots are still out there in the real world and they haven't even touched on how they might deal with them.
And exquese me... but wasn't the Smith program destroyed at the end of the first movie? I mean, sure, he was a program and could possibly be recreated... but why? It should be a different actor.
That said, I can see why they would want to stop the Matrix from being destroyed all at once. All the people trapped in side would die.
From the footage I've seen, the baddies in this one have more swords than guns. There's a lot of samurai / ninja looking dudes and one scene takes place on what looks like a freeway off ramp.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I uninstalled Office once. I've never destroyed Office. Don't think so...three dimensionally. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
IMDb lists Hugo Weaving as playing "Agent Smith 2.0".
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Office?! Hmm. Maybe the next enemy threatening the Matrix is that damned paperclip. . .
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Agent Smith 2.0"?
Guess he received more than one service-pack after Neo debugged him.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Apparently the freeway chase scene is huge. Huge.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
LOL... there's something humorous about comparing a Microsoft product to a near-sentient, evil, monitoring program that likes to mess people up
And I see your point... I'm sure the AI could just reinstall him.
I've seen clips of a fight scene on a staircase that looks pretty sweet too. But I'm also looking forward to seeing how they deal with a part of the city that isn't run-down buildings. I mean...that look is really sweet... but I want to see them do other stuff too.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Something I wondered about: When women get pregnant in the Matrix, do the AI's actually transfer the semen from the man to the woman in reality? Or do they use "stock" jizz?
It would make a certain kind of sense to have all the people you know relatively close by in reality, for such occasions...On the same block, you might say. Industrial world lines, eh?
These are the kind of things I think about during long road trips.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I hope you're not the one at the wheel. . .
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Of course I am. Everybody else is usually too stoned to drive.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, they mention that humans aren't born in the real world anymore... they're grown. Probably genetically engineered and grown in a test tube from existing DNA combinations.
When the AI creates a new human, someone in the Matrix probably gets pregnant...but they're only pregnant inside the Matrix. The real person wouldn't be pregnant. If they were to be unplugged during their pregnancy, they would wake up to find themselves sans fetus.
Just a guess. I doubt they'll tackle this in the movies.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I almost ran over a Mazda today.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Which, I'm sure, was quite surprising to the Mazda, given how infrequently they get run over by home-schooled Christians! I hope that if you had run it over, you would have been good enough to help wash your muddy footprints off of it.
Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
I'll bet he was training on executing a Matrix move, sprinting along the side of the car and then doing sexy sideflip. Alas, the cape got stuck on the rear-view mirror, and things went pretty much down-hill from there. Damnit, Omega. At least use skateboard-mittens.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I hope they do a good fight scene like the lobby scene from the original. I'm sure that Keanu Reeves will be back as Neo, but what about Carrie-Anne Moss, and Lawrence Fishburne? I've hardly heard anything about the movie.
Posted by Thoughtchopper (Member # 480) on :
They're all back. And it looks like there will even be some fights.
Cool ones, even.
Posted by The Real Folk Blues (Member # 510) on :
ooh ooh! do the fights involve kicks and punches!! ooh! i hope so! hey, look at this! doesn't that kick ass?
Posted by Thoughtchopper (Member # 480) on :
Heh.
Posted by Edipissed Wrecks (Member # 510) on :
all that gets is a "heh"? there is a frozen woman in the mouse!!! Posted by Thoughtchopper (Member # 480) on :
heh heh. heh.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Right. Well I'm going to hope my life never gets boring enough to resort to doing something like that.
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