Pyro was good (looked like Rich "Lowtax" Kyanka's baby brother), Iceman looked a bit dorky but respect goes to his powers! Cute cameos with little Siryn and Kitty Pryde. Colossus owned, no russian accent but heavy nonetheless.
The FX-team all worked wonders on Pyro, Iceman, Magneto and Nightcrawler.
Nightcrawler was played well, he took the brunt of the "Comedy Sidekick"-part but I think his character survived it. He's a charmer, that Alan Cumming is.
Fun Coincedence: Loved Kelly Hu as (Lady) Deathstrike. Then I came home, switched on the TV and "Martial Law" was running. Well if it isn't the same cute chinese girl doing high kicks and talking sass. She really could've done with more lines here, Darth Maul had more lines, at that. In all other regards she's the classic "OddJob"-lackey. Silent, unquestioning tool of destruction, sent out to do its master's bidding. And prettier than Lucy Liu, to boot!
For all of you who have feared Logan to've been domesticated or MacGyvered, prepare to be surprised. My popcorn-hand stopped dead at times, Ich schei�e you nicht.
As for acting, even the most nonchalant viewer can see that Stewart and McKellen is in another league entirely. Such grace, such elegance, esp McKellen. Respect! *does that thing with the fingers*
Biggest disappointment: Scott "Cyclops" Summers. His powers looked better than last time but the Drake family cat had better acting. I even laughed uncomfortably at one point, but I won't tell you which. I know $$$-signs won't be heeded by anyone but the strongest of wills and some spoilers just aren't meant to be released.
If I have any gripes (apart from Cyclops' not being replaced by clay brick) it would be with certain decisions to change facts and plot threads inherent in the Marvel world, but the more I think about it the more I understand how they had to make these concessions and modify certain things in order for it to flow smoother.
For instance, Lady Deathstrike never was part of the Weapon X-program, she has her own agenda. But she fits in very well here, so I'll let it go, even though they gave her adamantium and healing factor suddenly. Rogue is more powerful than in these movies, but if we go by the logic that she's young and hasn't assimilated that many powers yet, it fits. Could be spunkier, tho.
AND WHERE IS MY DANGER ROOM??? Ah well, maybe in X3...
This is a "to be seen in cinemas"-movie definitely, that goes out to all of you downloading, Div-X burning spoilsports.
I'll say it again, "Oh my stars and garters!". ; ;
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: >SNIKT!< I'll say it again, "Oh my stars and garters!". ; ;
Well, if that isn't some sort of subtle hint, I don't know what is....
Been looking forward to this one. Hope to see it this weekend, tho won't hold my breath.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ooops - I ALSO started and X2 thread - sorry! That one had no spoilers.
This one has spoiler markings - so where should I begin... maybe with some EXTRA spoiler space:
s p o i l e r s p a c e s p o i l e r s p a c e s p o i l e r s p a c e
OK that should do it.
1. I loved it to bits. 2. I loved it to bits.
Nightcrawler RULES!! BAMPH!
He stole the movie for me.
It's a pity about Death-strike - if she wasn't controlled by Stryker - (at one time she was about to break through) then she could have been an ally.
Anyone notice Archangel's wing on one of the X-rays in the adamantium room?
Wolvie had real pity for Deathstrike after she died.
GAWD people who haven't seen it - PLEASE DON'T READ THIS!!
Bobby was fine - he didn't look dorky - he also was a parallel to John. One clean cut with the girl, the other sullen and begrudging.
Nightcrawler was just SO cool.
I've never read the comics - so I knew nothing about his character. But I loved his very spiritual side.
What can I say about Wolvie. OMG forkin' brilliant. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (slice, stab) flex muscle... OK let's go.
Colossus - look I overheard some geeky people in the next row when the credits were rolling "ohhh that WAS Colossus - but he wasn't Russian". I mean he said like ONE LINE - he had a very deep voice - you couldn't pick an accent up from that... what was he supposed to be wearing one of those hats!?!
Psyrin! GREAT!
Wish there was more Kitty Pride and not much Jubilee.
What was the name/identity of the kid flicking the channels with his mind?
Was Jason Stryker a character in the comics?
So many mutants!!
I have to go - but just quickly - such an awesome movie.
Storm was given more to do - of course after Halle's Academy Award - but it wasn't blatant - it was more in line with what (I have seen of Storm/read) that she was supposed to be like... one of the leaders.)
Anyone notice Beast on the TV!?!
Everyone in the audience ooed at that!
And imdb says Gambit makes an appearance... BUT WHERE!?!
Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant.
Did anyone notice the editor also was the composer of the score!?! I didn't mind Michael Kamen's score for X1 - so why didn't they get him back?
Andrew
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Gambit didn't make an appearance, but his name (Remy LeBeau) and Multiple Man's (Jamie Maddox), among many others, can be sighted in a list when Mystique is flicking through all the secret files on Stryker's (Deathstrike's) computer.
Absolutely a screengrab/dissect moment for us enthusiasts, for when the DVD comes out. Kind of like when the Trekkers here get a Star Trek shiplist screengrab from a new movie. :-)
I don't know who the little guy with glasses was but the kid with the fork tongue in the museum was Artie, as in Artie and Leech. Maybe the kid with glasses was Leech, then. Artie looked very human in the movie, but if they'd been more faithful to the comics he (and Leech) would've been Gollum/Jar-Jar stereotypes, so I'm content.
About the thread(s), I sat writing this for about one hour, so I didn't notice another appearing at the time. Kind of fun that we saw it at the same time (well, practically), the movie world is more synchronized now! Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Wow, I can't wait to see this movie then.
But I hear the backstage hillarity was as much fun as the film itself. Too bad most of it won't be in the DVD.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well it's a great cast...
Stewart, Sir Ian, Hugh, Halle, The luscious Famke (I wonder if Patrick Stewart remembered her from TNG?) Anna Paquin etc.
So if Remy and - who's this other guy? Multiple Man? What - he has multiple orgasms!?! were on the security guard list - then they ARE security guards as part of the story? AND why would they be listed in the credits!!?!! Does that mean some of the guards we saw were mutants!?!
So deathstrike wasn't originally part of Stryker's adamantium project? I thought Sabretooth had adamantium claws - was he? I didn't see any claws up on the x-rays on the wall...
As I said Archangel's wing was scene - was that supposed to be laced with adamantium too?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Archangel originally had organic feather-wings, but got augmented and perverted by Apocalypse, got steel wings and blue skin. Whole 'nother pickle.
Lady Deathstrike is a japanese assassin, she doesn't have adamantium nails, her whole hands grow to giant birdclaws, she's a cyborg. Has been battling Logan since the mid/early 80's.
Gambit WAS NOT the fat security guard who got picked up by Mystique, that guy was human. He didn't sound cajun either.
Sabretooth traditionally don't have adamantium claws (not in X1 either), just a healing factor, bone talons and a psychopathic killer mind. There have been some instances in the comic books where he has gotten adamantium skeleton (he has it now, I believe) but that's neither here nor there moviewise.
Multiple Man can separate into several clones of himself, like an amoeba (but he looks human all the time). I've seen at least 20 at a time. He is witty too.
Oh, there was a folder on Stryker's comp that said "Omega Red" too. Russian merc, has paired up with Deathstrike on occasion, both hate Logan. IIRC he can release gas toxins from glands or pods on his torso and manipulate, stun or kill people with it. And he has adamantium coils that shoot out through his palms, kind of like strangling whips.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Archangel originally had organic feather-wings, but got augmented and perverted by Apocalypse, got steel wings and blue skin. Whole 'nother pickle.
Easily incorporated into the whole Adamantium thing.
Lady Deathstrike is a japanese assassin, she doesn't have adamantium nails, her whole hands grow to giant birdclaws, she's a cyborg. Has been battling Logan since the mid/early 80's.
well the plot with the adamantium/connections to Wolverine/Strykers sounds better than her being a cyborg...
I can just see Prof X... "This far No FURTHER!"
Pity she couldn't have been knocked out or something and then awoken from her Stryker-induced hallucinations and then fought with the X-men or against - what ever float's ya boat.
Gambit WAS NOT the fat security guard who got picked up by Mystique, that guy was human. He didn't sound cajun either.
And I'll be as equally as SURLY, Nim - DID I SAY IT WAS THE FAT GUY - THERE WERE OTHER SECURITY GUARDS THERE ya-KNOW
Sabretooth traditionally don't have adamantium claws (not in X1 either)
According to the site or some official piece of merchandise - they were adamantium claws - for X-1
, just a healing factor, bone talons and a psychopathic killer mind. There have been some instances in the comic books where he has gotten adamantium skeleton (he has it now, I believe) but that's neither here nor there moviewise.
Multiple Man can separate into several clones of himself, like an amoeba (but he looks human all the time). I've seen at least 20 at a time. He is witty too.
So why would he be a security guard unless he was trying out for "The Matrix"!?!
Oh, there was a folder on Stryker's comp that said "Omega Red" too. Russian merc, has paired up with Deathstrike on occasion, both hate Logan. IIRC he can release gas toxins from glands or pods on his torso and manipulate, stun or kill people with it. And he has adamantium coils that shoot out through his palms, kind of like strangling whips.
Why do all these people hate Logan? - is it something he just can't remember? Or did he foil some of their bids to "take-over the world"?
BIG SPOILER AHEAD
BIG SPOILER
I am WARNING YOU
REALLY
DON'T LOOK if you haven't seen the movie
I MEANT IT!
Did you notice the Phoenix moving across the water at Alkali lake at the end. And was that Jean contacting Xavier when he went all distant when the kids came in?
Oh and what about when Jean used Xavier to talk to Scott - sad moment but - for a moment there (and I did laugh - which soughta spoilt the moment for me!) It looked as if Xavier(Jean Controlled)/Scott were going to Kiss! LOL! See if you can spot it too!
Nightcrawler was the best though - loved his little interaction with Mystique!
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim:About the thread(s), I sat writing this for about one hour, so I didn't notice another appearing at the time. Kind of fun that we saw it at the same time (well, practically), the movie world is more synchronized now! [/QB]
Actually I mentioned in my thread - Australia actually saw it a day or so BEFORE the US! That is a rare event for us - and I'm so glad it happened. I hate seeing all the fekking movies weeks or months after their US/UK release dates. I mean why do they do that - it's not as if they have to dub the movie into another language or anything.
So we got it on Wednesday the 1st - the US gets their movies on the Friday don't they? We usually get new-releases on the Thursday but X-men 2 was released on the Wednesday!!
Maybe it has something to do with the public holiday next Monday?
We got First Contact a day before the rest of the world - can't think of many other US movies that we got before the US/UK.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
AndrewR: "Why do all these people hate Logan? - is it something he just can't remember? Or did he foil some of their bids to "take-over the world"?"
He's a good guy. They're bad guys. They carry grudges. Also, Deathstrike has that extra japanese "honor" thing which forces her to attack Logan whenever she sees him. :-)
"And I'll be as equally as SURLY, Nim - DID I SAY IT WAS THE FAT GUY - THERE WERE OTHER SECURITY GUARDS THERE ya-KNOW
Haha, I wasn't being surly, what is this? You misunderstood, I adressed it because I've heard it before. I said "fat guard" because some other reviewers have prematurely claimed LeBeau was that man.
They have plans (or wishes) to incorporate Gambit later in the movies so I don't think they would have him work as a security guard for the government in this film. If he against all better judgement would, he and Maddox would not be owned by Cyclops like those guards, who didn't have any powers at all.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
*fudge grumble mutter*
I should not be posting in this thread for another week, but dammit, I'll just speedscroll my way down blindfolded. So tell me: X-Men II, better or worse than p. I?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I commend you on your strength to avoid the goodies.
Better than Part I? Absolutely, Part I was more of an appetizer, establishing a foundation. This is one of the best sequels since TESB, in my opinion. And currently the best superhero movie ever. It will give "Matrix Reloaded" a run for its money as "No.1 summer movie".
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Ah, that's promising, I've been waiting for an "intelligent blockbuster", so to speak.
And, to be completely honest, I found X-Men -- as a fleshed-out adaptation -- not quite as invigorating as Marvel's cartoon series (the early seasons, anyway). It was tasty, but a touch on the bland side, if you will.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Saw the 12:01 am showing. I agree with everyone else. Fan-fucking-tastic.
Personally, I was most impressed with the Nightcrawler telepartation... and the sound effect was perfect. I also enjoyed that they followed Wolverine's claws to their natural conclusion... I was expecting some half-assed fighting against those soldiers, but he really got down. When he killed the first few, I heard cheers from the fans in the theater and "holy shit" from the others.
Now, I haven't read the comics in years, and my memory isn't the best about them... what role did Stryker and/or his son play in the comic?
SUPER SPOILERS
SUPER SPOILERS
SUPER SPOILERS
The first time Jean's eyes get enflamed, I whispered the word "Phoenix" to my girlfriend, who had no idea what I was talking about. I, of course, didn't realize what was going to happen later. I have to admit to a chill when there was that winged glow in the lake...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Ryan: 'and "holy shit" from the others.'
My brother and I said so too. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It was fucking Amazing. Hugh Jackman shows that he really is the best there is at what he does. The kid that played Pyro did an excellent job as did the guy that played Nightcrawler. Very good acting from everyone.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Just saw it a couple hours ago. Frikkin' awesome, bay-bee! If you have even a passing interest in X-Men, you'll LOVE this movie. I couldn't believe that it was actually a bit over two hours, things happened so fast in the movie! Kept my attention, that's for sure.
SPOILER SPACE
*
*
*
*
*
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quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: >SNIKT!< Now, I haven't read the comics in years, and my memory isn't the best about them... what role did Stryker and/or his son play in the comic?
Nope. Not unless Stryker is relatively new to the X-Universe comics. I'm thinking he was possibly made just for the movie.
However, his son Jason, on the other hand... I'm pretty sure that this was a take-off on Jason Wyngarde, who's nome-degeur (sp) in the X-Comics was Mastermind.
I also liked the lil' "cameo" by Mrs. McCoy's bouncing, bubbly boy. Hope we see more of him!
Also, I'm 100% certain that "Colosus" did NOT have a Russian accent. Having spent a great deal of time around Russians, I can tell you categorically that there was no trace of an accent, and there should have been if they were truly trying to make him out as Piotr Rasputin.
No sign of Gambit that I saw, either. Gonna have to get that DVD when it comes out so I can do some screen grabs!
And where is it that you guys claim to have seen "Archangels" wings?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I daresay that's bogus. They had originally planned to have Angel (his original name) impress Rogue in the first movie by slam-dunking a basketball with the aid of his great (feather) wings on the court. It was cut due to the CGI-budget, or so I heard.
The X-Rays in question were probably of Yuriko's shoulder blades.
They did shoot some stunt scenes with stuntman James Bamford playing Gambit, probably in the school raid, but apparently they want to use Gambit for later and don't want some non-actor playing him now, forcing them to recast later.
But just maybe we'll see him on the DVD, as you say.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Apparently Sebastian Shaw is in the movie as well, credited as Doctor Shaw.
Since he and McCoy are next to eachother in the credit list I assume Shaw is the gentleman McCoy is debating with on the TV in the bar-scene. Haven't confirmed it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yes, that was poor Mastermind: they even kept his his-matched eyes (from the comics). I had heard there would be Sentinels and Gambit: the name "Remy LeBeau" is on the computer screen that Mystique acceses in Stryker's office but that's it. No Sentinels are in the movie at all But there is a intresting X-Ray of Cyber's head in the Weapon X lab (Cyber is a so-so villian with admantium skin in plates: kinda like Colusus but artificial)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Haha, I wasn't being surly, what is this? You misunderstood, I adressed it because I've heard it before. I said "fat guard" because some other reviewers have prematurely claimed LeBeau was that man.
Oh - ok - why would those reviewers think that that that fat guy was Remy!?! Arrgh - even I know that and I've only seen one or two tv eps and the first movie!
So - heh sorry - I thought you were aiming it at me!
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Ryan: 'and "holy shit" from the others.'
My brother and I said so too.
Me THREE!! (or is it four?)
I saw X-men 5 times (at the theatres) - the closest I've come to see a movie multiple times is First Contact 3x, The Fellowship of the Rings 3x and The Two Towers 2x (I may this week up that to 4x for TFOTR and 3x for TTT as they are having a back-to-back double feature for one week only) for $15.
I've seen X2 1.5 times (I snuck into the final screening for the evening as it was on as I was leaving my first viewing) I'll definately see it again.
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
SPOILER SPACE
Also, I'm 100% certain that "Colosus" did NOT have a Russian accent. Having spent a great deal of time around Russians, I can tell you categorically that there was no trace of an accent, and there should have been if they were truly trying to make him out as Piotr Rasputin.
Ahhhhh - but he got to say ALL of ONE line. Unless he had a Particularly THICK accent "I can help you" is not ALWAYS going to sound Russian.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: No sign of Gambit that I saw, either. Gonna have to get that DVD when it comes out so I can do some screen grabs!
Well as Nim says - his name and Bruce Maddox were just on the printouts that Mystique did.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: And where is it that you guys claim to have seen "Archangels" wings?
Nim says:
quote: I daresay that's bogus.
NUP! It's most DEFINATELY there.
Top right-hand corner - I was desparately looking for it - It was mentioned in the Empire Magazine X-men special.
It's one of the x-rays that are in the adamantium room. You can see the 'arm' and the "feathers" - albite not as bright - which would be correct. And I saw it twice that night (well 1.5 times) and saw it both times.
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
About the scull plates - remember wolverine has that too - as per Jean's x-rays in X1.
Who is Dr. Shaw?
And all these people with Adamantium implants must be healers like Wolvie - well we saw Deathstrike have that ability.
Also when Rogue sucks out powers - how long does she keep them? Does that mean she had within that time fire AND ice skills?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
SPOILER SPACE
Also, I'm 100% certain that "Colosus" did NOT have a Russian accent. Having spent a great deal of time around Russians, I can tell you categorically that there was no trace of an accent, and there should have been if they were truly trying to make him out as Piotr Rasputin.
quote:Ahhhhh - but he got to say ALL of ONE line. Unless he had a Particularly THICK accent "I can help you" is not ALWAYS going to sound Russian.
No, he had more than just "ONE" line in the movie, dude. He had more like five or six lines, at least. All were spoken quite clearly in unaccented English. Again, I've been around a number of Russian's before and the way they enunciate certain syllables is unmistakable.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: No sign of Gambit that I saw, either. Gonna have to get that DVD when it comes out so I can do some screen grabs!
Well as Nim says - his name and Bruce Maddox were just on the printouts that Mystique did.
If you're talking about Multiple Man, that's Jamie Madrox....
I believe that "Bruce Maddox" was a character in TNG. The episode where they were going to cut Data into pieces for study...?
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: And where is it that you guys claim to have seen "Archangels" wings?
Nim says:
quote: I daresay that's bogus.
quote:NUP! It's most DEFINATELY there.
Top right-hand corner - I was desparately looking for it - It was mentioned in the Empire Magazine X-men special.
It's one of the x-rays that are in the adamantium room. You can see the 'arm' and the "feathers" - albite not as bright - which would be correct. And I saw it twice that night (well 1.5 times) and saw it both times.
Andrew
I didn't see these, tho that's not saying that they weren't there. I just never noticed them, if they were. I assume you're talking about the scene at Strykers base, down in his lab...?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Yep in his lab. It was there. *sigh*.
And I don't know what movie you saw but Colossus only said one line. Sure we might have seen him a few more times.
1. At the table drawing with a kid when Rogue and Bobby are trying to Kiss - he draws a cartoon - no dialogue
2. Appears at the Bedroom Door - initiates the metal skin - throws bad guys through a wall - no dialogue
3. Carries a kid down a hall in the mansion - meets up with Wolverine "I can help you" - Wolvie says "No, you help the children". And they go off down a secret passage-way.
4. Only seen again at the end when he enters Xavier's office and class starts. The only 'kid' dialogue there was by Jubilee when Xavier is distant (presumably being contacted by Jean).
That's it - no more than one abrupt - and interrupted line by Colossus... and you CAN'T tell an accent from that. Especially if he doesn't have a THICK accent. Also if he's been living at the Mansion for quite a while - he was much younger when we last briefly saw him.
*sigh*.
Andrew
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
WTF is your deal, dude?!?
"*sigh*"?!?!?!?
That's very mature of you....
You must have gotten up and walked out in the middle of the fight scene at the mansion as Strykers troops came in or we saw two different versions of the movie. The version I saw very clearly had Colosus - a guy who transforms in one scene into organic looking steel skin - speaking somewhere around five or six lines of dialogue.
When Colosus gets the kids into the tunnel, there's some dialogue between he and some of the other kids. He says a line or two here. When they leave the tunnel, he says another line or two.
Did the version you see have this?
No need to get all pissy and try to be so "sophisticated" or whatever your "Sighs" are all about.
Might as well go ahead and just call me a liar, "Andrew". At least have the cojone's to do that much.....
"*sigh*", indeed.... Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Just read your profile and see you're in Australia. Andy Henshaw, is that you...?
EDIT: Nevermind. Checking again, I see you're in Brisbane and he's in Adelaide....
Anyhow, it's entirely possible that the version you see omitted the scenes I'm talking about that I saw.
Regardless, I know for a fact that the character identified as Colosus did indeed speak more than "ONE" line of dialogue in the movie I saw today. I shall maintain that he spoke five or six lines of dialogue and will not argue that point any further with you. I imagine that the DVD will bear me out. At least, the U.S. version should.
Also, the movie I saw today was over two hours long. The lights are all out, but I believe that the first movie was barely over 1 1/2 hours, right? Will have to check tomorrow morning when I feel I can turn lights on and look for the VHS and DVD copies....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I only saw the movie once, but I distinctly recall him armoring up and them muttering "oil can".....
mabye that's why bright boy didint stay armored up when the house was being invaded by goons with automatic weapons. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I was so psyched by the fact that even though I haven't read an X-Men comic in years and didn't read virtually any publicity material for this film, still I knew who everyone was by name and all the little connections to stories that have been done.
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Rogue is more powerful than in these movies, but if we go by the logic that she's young and hasn't assimilated that many powers yet, it fits.
Yeah. Didn't she get the flying and super-strength/invulnerability after an incident with Ms. Marvel? I can't remember the exact circumstances, but somehow she permanently absorbed Marvel's powers...
Nightcrawler, I agree was fucking awesome. It was really cool to see Colossus, too, even though the first thing that I thought was "Why doesn't he have a Russian accent?" (I too clearly heard an accent-less voice, Andrew. )
And OMG! Phoenix! Gasp! Orgasm!
I wonder if they'll do the thing with Mystique being Rogue and Nightcrawler's mom? Probably not, I guess...
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: So if Remy and - who's this other guy? Multiple Man? What - he has multiple orgasms!?! were on the security guard list - then they ARE security guards as part of the story? AND why would they be listed in the credits!!?!! Does that mean some of the guards we saw were mutants!?!
No, no, no. Before Mystique called up the security guard files, she was looking at a list of mutants which Stryker had files on.
Also on the computer were files concerning Muir Island, Franklin Richards, and Project Wideawake.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: >SNIKT!< Now, I haven't read the comics in years, and my memory isn't the best about them... what role did Stryker and/or his son play in the comic?
Nope. Not unless Stryker is relatively new to the X-Universe comics. I'm thinking he was possibly made just for the movie.
No, I definitely remember Stryker from before. Didn't he become a religious fanatic or some-such in the comics?
-MMoM
[ May 03, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Considering that my post is at the top of the page I'll add spoiler space for all those naughy goils and bois who go ahead an 'accidently' read any of this.
s p o i l e r s p a c e s p o i l e r s p a c e
spoilers ahead
do not pass go
do not collect $200 dollars!
that should do it!
Andrew
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I only saw the movie once, but I distinctly recall him armoring up and them muttering "oil can".....
mabye that's why bright boy didint stay armored up when the house was being invaded by goons with automatic weapons.
Curiouser and Curiouser - there was no such "oil-can" line. I'm going to see it again - I'll double check the lines.
BUT Mr. Works... if indeed that is your real name I'm *sighing* cause I had just typed the same thing three times - or something like that.
*sigh^2*
OK how about this *sheesh!*
*grumble*
*snickt!*
I'm maintaining he had *1* line and that was "But I can help you" to Wolverine - and it was in a low voice. BESIDES all that - If he becomes a major player next movie AND he's not destinctly Russian then there is a problem - If he came on screen with a really bad heavy Middle-of-the-cold-war-out-in-a-gulag-vodka-drinking-Russian accent - or sounded like Chekov then I'd be pissed.
And as I said before *sigh* *yes SIGH* He's been living in the US for a while now - considering he was in the first movie. I'd say he'd begin to loose any thick Russian accent. Maybe he's not even RUSSIAN born in the movies but of Russian-American parents!?!
Does it really matter - he looked farkin' cool!!
So Griffworks - cool the 'tude... Bub.
OH and if we want to get REALLY PICKY John Allerdyce aka Pyro is Australian - and HE distinctly had an American accent. So nyah! Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
Yeah. Didn't she get the flying and super-strength/invulnerability after an incident with Ms. Marvel? I can't remember the exact circumstances, but somehow she permanently absorbed Marvel's powers...
Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean? That's another question - does Rouge retain a little of everyone's power's she absorbs?? She gets their thoughts/memories like her boyfriend at the start of X1 and Wolverine.
Didn't you LOVE Rogue/Anna's little scene when she sees Magneto on the ship!! And how he taunts her!?!
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Nightcrawler, I agree was fucking awesome.
I *LOVED* Nightcrawler - loved the small interaction between him and Mystique and his tail getting a little excited after her reply.
*I HOPE ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE ISN'T WATCHING THIS!!*
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: It was really cool to see Colossus, too, even though the first thing that I thought was "Why doesn't he have a Russian accent?" (I too clearly heard an accent-less voice, Andrew. )
Bah! OK - fine - I'm not really saying I could *HEAR* any Russian accent - it's just that he only had one line. And it would have looked corny him coming out and sounding like Pavel Chekov!
*Volverine! There are commandoes in the building! (doing Chekov's patented stating the bleeding obvious!) *
*Should we take one of their Wessels!?!*
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: And OMG! Phoenix! Gasp! Orgasm!
Double Orgasm!
I'm not ALL up on the history - just know tid-bits... but having Phoenix doesn't mean we've got to have that Alien story line and Lilandra do we - cause you'll loose audiences there.
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I wonder if they'll do the thing with Mystique being Rogue and Nightcrawler's mom? Probably not, I guess...
I'm guessing no.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: So if Remy and - who's this other guy? Multiple Man? What - he has multiple orgasms!?! were on the security guard list - then they ARE security guards as part of the story? AND why would they be listed in the credits!!?!! Does that mean some of the guards we saw were mutants!?!
No, no, no. Before Mystique called up the security guard files, she was looking at a list of mutants which Stryker had files on.
Also on the computer were files concerning Muir Island, Franklin Richards, and Project Wideawake.
*OHHHHHHHHHHHHH* *got-ya now* *there were so many files my eyes were scanning the screen franticly*
The thing is I've seen a credit listing for Remy LeBeau!?! A Cut thing?
And sorry - but who/what are Muir Island (Isn't that where Moyra McTaggert is - wasn't she a love of Xaviers and helped build Cerebro with Eric?)
Franklin Richards?
Project Wide-awake?
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: >SNIKT!< Now, I haven't read the comics in years, and my memory isn't the best about them... what role did Stryker and/or his son play in the comic?
Nope. Not unless Stryker is relatively new to the X-Universe comics. I'm thinking he was possibly made just for the movie.
No, I definitely remember Stryker from before. Didn't he become a religious fanatic or some-such in the comics?
-MMoM [/QB][/QUOTE]
An X-men fanatic girl I know told me about Stryker - she's one of these Fans - sorta like us - I think they consider the comics Canon and everything else non-canon. Those movies would be pretty hard to dismiss though! Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
AndrewR: "Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean?"
No, Ms Marvel was Carol Danvers, an old name long forgotten by kids these days, from the golden days of the 80's.
There are a whole heap of Marvel-women with "Marvel" in their names so it's easy to miss it, actually.
"The thing is I've seen a credit listing for Remy LeBeau!?! A Cut thing?"
Oh pay attention, 007! Yes, a cut thing, I posted this yesterday (added some stough now):
They did shoot some stunt scenes with stuntman James Bamford playing Gambit (it's in the credits), probably for the school raid, but apparently they may want to use Gambit for later and don't want some non-actor playing him now, forcing them to recast later.
"All these people with Adamantium implants must be healers like Wolvie - well we saw Deathstrike have that ability."
Healing factor is not a prerequisite for adamantium grafting. I don't remember if Deathstrike has it herself in the comics, but it cannot be added to a person, that would totally tear down the uniqueness of those fortunate few. It's bad enough with all this increased adamantium-activity... Logan has (along with the animal senses) the healing factor since birth, it's why he's a mutant. That's also why no one knows how old he is.
"Also when Rogue sucks out powers - how long does she keep them? Does that mean she had within that time fire AND ice skills?
It depends on if she's actively trying and how hard. She can loan powers momentarily and surrender them later. With the other's consent it works even better. You should've seen her in the last "Uncanny X-Men" adventure, she was a flying tank.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: AndrewR: "The thing is I've seen a credit listing for Remy LeBeau!?! A Cut thing?"
Oh pay attention, 007! Yes, a cut thing, I posted this yesterday (added some stough now):
(stuff)
Oooops SOrry -- I THOUGHT I remembered someone posting about it! That's right. The thing is the character for Pyro in X1 isn't the same as X2 - neither is Jubilee - not that that matters... why don't they use her? I thought she was a favourite?
quote:Originally posted by Nim: They did shoot some stunt scenes with stuntman James Bamford playing Gambit (it's in the credits), probably for the school raid, but apparently they may want to use Gambit for later and don't want some non-actor playing him now, forcing them to recast later.
"All these people with Adamantium implants must be healers like Wolvie - well we saw Deathstrike have that ability."
Healing factor is not a prerequisite for adamantium grafting. I don't remember if Deathstrike has it herself in the comics, but it cannot be added to a person, that would totally tear down the uniqueness of those fortunate few. It's bad enough with all this increased adamantium-activity... Logan has (along with the animal senses) the healing factor since birth, it's why he's a mutant. That's also why no one knows how old he is.
But adding metal like that to the inside of the body would kill someone due to their immune system attacking it continually. So one would guess Logan is continually healing himself 24/7 - he probably should be a big eater!
quote:Originally posted by Nim: "Also when Rogue sucks out powers - how long does she keep them? Does that mean she had within that time fire AND ice skills?
It depends on if she's actively trying and how hard. She can loan powers momentarily and surrender them later. With the other's consent it works even better. You should've seen her in the last "Uncanny X-Men" adventure, she was a flying tank.
A Flying Hank or a flying Tank? Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: AndrewR: "Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean?"
No, Ms Marvel was Carol Danvers, an old name long forgotten by kids these days, from the golden days of the 80's.
There are a whole heap of Marvel-women with "Marvel" in their names so it's easy to miss it, actually.
"All these people with Adamantium implants must be healers like Wolvie - well we saw Deathstrike have that ability."
Healing factor is not a prerequisite for adamantium grafting. I don't remember if Deathstrike has it herself in the comics, but it cannot be added to a person, that would totally tear down the uniqueness of those fortunate few. It's bad enough with all this increased adamantium-activity... Logan has (along with the animal senses) the healing factor since birth, it's why he's a mutant. That's also why no one knows how old he is.
Actually the Admantium grafting process was made by a crazy old failed kamakzie pilot named "Lord Darkwind" (crappy comic translation, no doubt) and was first seen when Daredevil broke Bullseye's back for him killing Electra (sound familliar?). The Kingpin smuggled the paralized bullseye to Japan for the process and DD follows. BIg Frank Miller story about honor and stuff results in Bullseye gaining Admantium bones and Darkwind and his son dying...leaving Yukio the sole surviving family member a bit screwy and without purpose in life. Yukio learns those shifty Canadians in he Weapon X program stole her dad's research and that's a big slap inn her family's name and honor. Yukio shows up in Alpha Flight as Lady Deathstrike sometime later to kill Wolverine (as he's the living embodiment of the theft and her father's dishonor) and guess what? she fails. More dishonor. Deathstrike sometime later strikes a deal with Spiral (of Mojoworld) and is re-created in glorious cybernetics and her arms "grow" into claws as strong as Wolvie's but not made of Admantium. She now has a nice machine like healing factor and super strength and regularly gives the midet mutie an ass poundin' in the comics. So you see: no healing factor required for admantium bones if done correctly but the Weapon X 'ers either have a bad japanese translator or never got the whole formula. Watch Deathstrike nearly end Wolvie's life in X-Men 205 (with barry Windsor Smith Art to boot!) As to Rogue: she was originally a mean bitch that took on and almost beat the Avengers in Avengers Anual 10 and her powers work just like the movie except in the comic she gains all that person's memories for the duration and sometimes a strong personality can do a posession thing on her and take over. If she uses her powers on avictim (like Ms. Marvel) too long she'll permanately gain all that persons powers but also their personality: resulting in multiple personality disorder under pressure.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nim: [qb] AndrewR: "Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean?"
As to Rogue: she was originally a mean bitch that took on and almost beat the Avengers in Avengers Anual 10 and her powers work just like the movie except in the comic she gains all that person's memories for the duration and sometimes a strong personality can do a posession thing on her and take over.
Well that's sorta like the movie cause Rogue says she could feel/remember her boyfriends thoughts and then Logans (when she was stabbed)
AND Jean said that she had taken on some of Wolvies traits and she'd be a bit gruff - or something - for a while afterwards (at the end of X1 when he was leaving).
Thanks for the info Jason!!
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
BUT Mr. Works... if indeed that is your real name I'm *sighing* cause I had just typed the same thing three times - or something like that.
I put my real name in my sig-line. I put it there for a reason. That reason being that I'm not at all afraid for people to know who I really am. Unlike other people here, I am not a Keyboard Kommando.
But please, continue to play the role of a 13 year old girl who thinks she's turning 30 next month....
quote:I'm maintaining he had *1* line and that was "But I can help you" to Wolverine - and it was in a low voice. BESIDES all that - If he becomes a major player next movie AND he's not destinctly Russian then there is a problem - If he came on screen with a really bad heavy Middle-of-the-cold-war-out-in-a-gulag-vodka-drinking-Russian accent - or sounded like Chekov then I'd be pissed.
You can maintain whatever you want for as long as you can keep it up, "Bub".
The fact of the matter is that in the version I saw, here in the United States of America - NOT in Australia! - had Colosus speaking five or six different lines. He wasn't yelling. He wasn't screaming, but was using a somewhat lowered voice as one might use in combat to try to NOT attract your enemy....
I appreciate your tolerance to the fact that perhaps we've seen different versions of the movie. That's very open minded of someone who doesn't even know where the comic book Rogue's super abilitities (i.e. her strength, flight and nigh-invulnerability) comes from and thinks that Ms. Marvel was Jean Grey....
quote:And as I said before *sigh* *yes SIGH* He's been living in the US for a while now - considering he was in the first movie. I'd say he'd begin to loose any thick Russian accent. Maybe he's not even RUSSIAN born in the movies but of Russian-American parents!?![/quiote] And that's all fine and dandy up your suppositions of his movie origins. However, you made the point of the accent in the first place, not me. I just mentioned that I specificallay didn't hear one. Or did you forget that while you were doing all your posturing...?
quote:Does it really matter - he looked farkin' cool!!
Again, I didn't make it a point of contention beyond mentioning that he doesn't have an accent.
So Griffworks - cool the 'tude... Bub.[/quote]
I'm not the one who started in w/the "'tude", Sparky.
quote:OH and if we want to get REALLY PICKY John Allerdyce aka Pyro is Australian - and HE distinctly had an American accent. So nyah! [/QB]
Yes, I knew this when he had the cameo - played by a completely different actor - in the first movie.....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I only saw the movie once, but I distinctly recall him armoring up and them muttering "oil can".....
Curiouser and Curiouser - there was no such "oil-can" line. I'm going to see it again - I'll double check the lines.
[/QB]
Um...he didint really say that you know. I was making a Wizard of Oz joke to break the tension over trivial lines. Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: >SNIP< And sorry - but who/what are Muir Island (Isn't that where Moyra McTaggert is - wasn't she a love of Xaviers and helped build Cerebro with Eric?)
Muir Island is the home of Moira MacTaggert, Scot scientist and former love of Xavier. To my recollection from the comics, she had no hand in the building of Cerebro.
quote:Franklin Richards?
Son of Reed and Susan Richards - and a mutant. In an alternate timeline, he's the love of the daughter of Scott and Jean Summers. We found out he's to become one very powerful mutant in some later issues of "Fantastic Four", too.
quote:Project Wide-awake?
IIRC, the project which founded the Sentinel's, and then the Mutant Hounds, tho not for another decade or so, if they're following the comics time-line, which I sorta doubt.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: >SNIKT!< Now, I haven't read the comics in years, and my memory isn't the best about them... what role did Stryker and/or his son play in the comic?
Nope. Not unless Stryker is relatively new to the X-Universe comics. I'm thinking he was possibly made just for the movie.
quote:No, I definitely remember Stryker from before. Didn't he become a religious fanatic or some-such in the comics?
Hmmm... Could be. I'm more than willing to admit that I might be wrong - unlike some other people here in this discussion. I do, however, know that there was a Jason Wyngarde known as "Mastermind". Mastermind was the most powerful illusionist in the mutant repretroire during the run of the X-Universe as I was reading the comics (near continuous run from '79 thru '97), and had a major hand in creating Dark Phoenix. Mastermind's father was never mentioned as being William Stryker. If he's dead, I'm curious to know how they'll handle that for the next movie...?
Is it possible that Stryker was someone who "inherited" Project: Wideawake from the guy who created the Sentinel's (can't remember the name off the top of my head and my comics are all boxed and stacked - Bolivar Trask...?)? I seem to recall someone stepping in there at some point, but forget for sure.
I'm still a bit torqued that they killed off Gyrich and Kelley in the first movie....
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Um...he didint really say that you know. I was making a Wizard of Oz joke to break the tension over trivial lines.
Let someone call you a liar and we'll see just how "trivial" it becomes. I don't much care for it, m'self.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean?
No, Ms. Marvel was a character (a human, IIRC) who had acquired Kree (an alien race) powers similar to those of the Kree warrior Captain Marvel. Rogue killed her, I think. But later she came back. (With so many decades of comics, it gets a bit hard to keep track of everyone... )
Jean's original code name was Marvel Girl. I never quite understood why they stopped using it and just started calling her Jean Grey all the time. I suppose somebody probably complained that it sounded silly, but then again just using her real name isn't much better IMHO.
quote:And sorry - but who/what are Muir Island (Isn't that where Moyra McTaggert is - wasn't she a love of Xaviers and helped build Cerebro with Eric?)
Franklin Richards?
Project Wide-awake?
Yes, Muir Island is is where McTaggert lives/works. I think Sean Cassidy (Banshee, whose daughter Theresa [Siryn] had a cameo in the film) may have gone to work with her there at one point.
Franklin Richards is the mutant son of Reed and Susan Richards. (Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman of the Fantastic Four.) The FF comics have done all sorts of interesting things with him...
Project Wideawake was some government program that may have tied in with the Sentinels, but my memory is foggy here.
quote:An X-men fanatic girl I know told me about Stryker - she's one of these Fans - sorta like us - I think they consider the comics Canon and everything else non-canon. Those movies would be pretty hard to dismiss though!
Well obviously, the movies take place in a different continuity than the comics. The same would have to go for any of the latest Marvel movies. (Blade, Spider-Man, Daredevil, The Hulk, etc.) They're only re-interpretations or revisions of the stories from the comics.
quote:...Bub.
Forgot to mention this before: I was immeasurably pleased when Jackman called Cox that. It was truly cool that they kept little things like that.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Jean's original code name was Marvel Girl. I never quite understood why they stopped using it and just started calling her Jean Grey all the time. I suppose somebody probably complained that it sounded silly, but then again just using her real name isn't much better IMHO.
Actually Jean became Phionex (A website into itself full off loooong story here) and a member of the Fantastic Four eventually took on the name (she had never heard of the X-Men Marvel Girl and thoughtshe was being original). Jean came back a few years later (jesus, please don't ask) and found that her whole life was pretty much gone, her boyfriend was married and her hero name was taken. She just kinda said "screw it, everybody already knows my secret ID anyway".
...and I too got a thrill from hearing Wolvie say "bub".
It was a little odd to see Magneto take the helicopter to get away, but mabye he was still tired from imprisonment or mabye he just didint feel like dragging Mystique's ass all over the place.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Isn't Miss Marvel another name for Jean?
No, Ms. Marvel was a character (a human, IIRC) who had acquired Kree (an alien race) powers similar to those of the Kree warrior Captain Marvel. Rogue killed her, I think. But later she came back. (With so many decades of comics, it gets a bit hard to keep track of everyone... )
Jean's original code name was Marvel Girl. I never quite understood why they stopped using it and just started calling her Jean Grey all the time. I suppose somebody probably complained that it sounded silly, but then again just using her real name isn't much better IMHO.
quote:And sorry - but who/what are Muir Island (Isn't that where Moyra McTaggert is - wasn't she a love of Xaviers and helped build Cerebro with Eric?)
Franklin Richards?
Project Wide-awake?
Yes, Muir Island is is where McTaggert lives/works. I think Sean Cassidy (Banshee, whose daughter Theresa [Siryn] had a cameo in the film) may have gone to work with her there at one point.
Franklin Richards is the mutant son of Reed and Susan Richards. (Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman of the Fantastic Four.) The FF comics have done all sorts of interesting things with him...
Project Wideawake was some government program that may have tied in with the Sentinels, but my memory is foggy here.
quote:An X-men fanatic girl I know told me about Stryker - she's one of these Fans - sorta like us - I think they consider the comics Canon and everything else non-canon. Those movies would be pretty hard to dismiss though!
Well obviously, the movies take place in a different continuity than the comics. The same would have to go for any of the latest Marvel movies. (Blade, Spider-Man, Daredevil, The Hulk, etc.) They're only re-interpretations or revisions of the stories from the comics.
quote:...Bub.
Forgot to mention this before: I was immeasurably pleased when Jackman called Cox that. It was truly cool that they kept little things like that.
-MMoM
Hey look everybody! I must be The Invisible Boy 'cause apparently my post above which covered pretty much the same info isn't visible to other people..... Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
BUT Mr. Works... if indeed that is your real name I'm *sighing* cause I had just typed the same thing three times - or something like that.
I put my real name in my sig-line. I put it there for a reason. That reason being that I'm not at all afraid for people to know who I really am. Unlike other people here, I am not a Keyboard Kommando.
But please, continue to play the role of a 13 year old girl who thinks she's turning 30 next month....
OMG! WTF!?! You have a big issue to work out Griff - 1. LOOK AT THE GRAEMLINS, 2. READ A FEW MORE POSTS around here to get the feel of the 'dynamic'. You are being WAY too confrontational. This is a chill-out zone. I had no attitude - I joke a lot of the time. You can't just come into a board and start name-calling (little girl WTF?) people who have been around these parts through 4 incarnations and 5 and a bit years.
Young wipper-snappers!
------->
*sheesh*
quote:
Mr. Works:
The fact of the matter is that in the version I saw, here in the United States of America - NOT in Australia! - had Colosus speaking five or six different lines. He wasn't yelling. He wasn't screaming, but was using a somewhat lowered voice as one might use in combat to try to NOT attract your enemy....
I appreciate your tolerance to the fact that perhaps we've seen different versions of the movie. That's very open minded of someone who doesn't even know where the comic book Rogue's super abilitities (i.e. her strength, flight and nigh-invulnerability) comes from and thinks that Ms. Marvel was Jean Grey....
OMG - who's being the little girl!?! OMG - wtf - you don't need to know the past 30 years of X-men to know what one sees in a MOVIE.
You are trying to be a school-yard bully "oohh look at him - he's trying to be clever and he doesn't know who Miss Marvel is!!"
Actually, no - you aren't being a bully - you are being the quintissential Comic-book Store Guy...
"You may enter my store if you can answer these questions three... What is the true nature of Rogue in X-men super-edition 14 released on the 3rd of July 1986... Toodle-oo!"
*OMG*
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
Hey look everybody! I must be The Invisible Boy 'cause apparently my post above which covered pretty much the same info isn't visible to other people.....
Griff - something else you must understand - a lot of people are nice and helpful and are more than willing to immediately post what they know. Secondly - there is no competition here.
Thirdly, remember this isn't a "US only" board we are from around the world and get on the 'net at all different times of the day or night. Monkey might have been composing his post when you posted yours.
CHILL OUT!!
G'night... errr no Good Morning...
LOVED Nightcrawler "Gutentaag" (if that's the incorrect spelling - I don't care - sorry Bernd) Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Y'know, this all started when I mentioned that there was indeed no Russian accent and more than one line was spoken by Colossus in the movie....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So you all liked the movie....right? See something to agree on with no dissent! This may be an online first that nobody has decided "it sucked" without explaining why!
Amazing.
Now if Griff and Andrew would fall for the same red haired girl we could re-enact many of the X-Mens greatest moments! Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
The character of William Stryker first appeared in the X-Men Graphic novel "God Loves, Man Kills" in 1982. He was a televangelist spouting the line that mutants were inhuman monsters spawned by Satan. The character's backstory told that he was an army Ranger during the nuclear tests in the late 50's and early 60's. He and his wife were in a car crash in the Nevada desert. His wife gave birth after the crash to what Stryker called "a monster." He killed his newborn son and his wife, and then he tried to destroy the bodies (and himself) in an explosion of the leaking gasoline. He survived the explosion, hit rock bottom with drinking, and then had a "revelation" that God had chosen him to lead the fight against mutants. It was a pretty good story, one that Bryan Singer has called an "inspiration" for much of the movie's plot.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Oh, one question about Wolverine .....
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
If your skull is laced and sheathed with an indestructible metal, just how far is a bullet from an ordinary street cop's gun going to penetrate your forehead?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Heh - yeah - it did look a bit squashed when it came out though.
I'm sure Wolverine hates to get on the scales - he must weigh quite a bit! Or is adamantium both light-weight and versatile!
Andrew
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Wolvie was once almost killed by a Sub Mariner villian called Tiger Shark: TS is super strong and has claws and super speed in the water and Wolvie is slow as molasses and as bouyant as a brick in water due to those metal bones....it's also the only time I've seen him really panic and get scared. Tiger Shark lodged wolvie's claws into a reef underwater and drowned him.... Good John Byrne story and art too. Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Just to clear up some little, niggling points...
*thinks hard to put the chronology in order*
Wolvie and Sabretooth both have uber healing factors, but are not (so far as we know) related -- despite several spurious plotlines over the years alluding to some such kinship. Back in the early '90s (ish), Magneto did a number like a magnified version of that security guard -- ripped all the adamantium out of Wolvie's body. Wolvie's healing factor (which had been fighting the metal all this time) rebounded and he regressed to a quasi-bestial feral state for some time before regaining his equilibrium. We also discovered that he had bone claws. There is some debate as to whether he always had them, and they were plated in adamantium, or that he always had them and the adamantium claws "repressed" them, or that his body grew them because his neuro-muscular system was so used to having claws there.
Somewhere in here, Cyber (cheap villain that he was) had adamantium skin and claws (whatever), and Apocalypse killed him to harvest the metal as part of a plot to re-implant it in Wolvie. Stuff happened, and this never came to pass.
Further along the line, Wolvie popped a claw through Sabretooth's brain, giving him an effective lobotomy, and the government placed him in the X-Men's care. His brain eventually healed, and the government made him a provisional member of X-Factor. Sabretooth had biological claws originally, but sometime about five or six years ago, the government overrode the head of X-Factor (Forge) and used Cyber's adamantium to do to Sabretooth what the Canadian government had done to Wolvie.
Into this mix, somewhere in the mists of time, Mystique had two children. One was Nightcrawler, to a father unknown. The other was one Greydon Creed, sired by none other than Sabretooth (aka Victor Creed). Neither of these forays into motherhood turned out very well for her. Later, she adopted a young runaway she named Rogue (prior to the first movie, I don't recall ever seeing a name for her). That didn't turn out much better, as her "daughter" turned against her and joined the X-Men.
--Jonah
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
All correct except for one thing: Sabertooth's healing factor is artificial and a result of Mr. sinister and Weapon X tinkering. ...of course the real reason is that Sabertooth was a cheesy 70's character that always got beat up by Powerman and Iron Fist and only had animal senses and claws. During this time he was partners with the Constrictor (an ex-SHIELD asassin with cybernetic electrified adamantium tenticles from his wrists). Sabretooth was a hired killer and eventually went after the Black Cat (Spider-Man's girlfriend at the time)and she clawed his face open and he went into the hospital for a few weeks while surgeons stitched his face bach together. Bright boy escapes and goes looking for revenge: Spidey webs Sabe's face up and mr itelligent rips the webs off...along with the sutures and a good chunk of his face. Coma time for sabertooth.
We don't see him for a year or so (our time) untill he pops up as a member of the Marauders (kinda Anti-X-Men) and that's the first time he has a healing factor....It starts a biiig week of action for sabe but he still gets nearly killed by the 70 year old mutant homeless woman called Plague and then a few hours later by the 14 tear old Alex Power (of Power pack). Next Sabertooth heads out to kill Psylocke at the X-Mansion and we see the first real fight between Wolverine and sabertooth. About ten years of revisionist history have all but obscured all the defeats he took from characters far far less dangerous than Wolverine. Hell, Alex Power decided not to disintegrate him because " I won't be a killer like him". What a sissy. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I remember when Magneto sucked the metal out of Logan, it was back in '96, IIRC. He had bone claws for a long time, when did he get the adamantium back? I thought he did get Cyber's share, I remember seeing his skeleton lifted from the vat, terrible scene.
His costume for X2 is really nice, especially the jacket. Would be cool to get one of those, do you guys think that's possible?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm sure someone will or is making it.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I liked the little joke in the movie when the boy at the museum was touching the Sabretooth Tiger - and Jean or was it Storm... comes up and tells him "don't touch that". Heh heh.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: There is some debate as to whether he always had them, and they were plated in adamantium, or that he always had them and the adamantium claws "repressed" them, or that his body grew them because his neuro-muscular system was so used to having claws there.
Didn't Origins clear that up? I haven't really read comics since about '96 (circa the Magneto incident), but I did see that one in a bookstore, and the Marvel website's bio of Wolvie seems to take it as canon...
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I, too, am curious to know how Wolverine got his adamantium back. I seem to recall something about Apocalypse...? Am I wrong there?
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
No, Apocalypse did play a part. Wolvie was Apocalypse's next horse dude (Death of the 4 horse men) and to be really good he had to have the metal put back on his bones. Apocalypse did that for him.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
If memory serves, at the time Sabretooth had an adamantium-laced skeleton. Wolvie whipped his ass in spite of this, and this convinced Apocalypse that Logan was the superior choice for Death. Apocalypse stripped the adamantium from Sabretooth and transferred it to Wolvie. (At least, I think this is right; I only read the comic once).
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
One thought I had about the Phoenix and Jean Grey at the end... I doubt they're going to do the whole alien connection. They seemed to hint at the end that this was going to be some uber mutation for Jean. In other words... she's just going to advance much, much farther in her abilities. But, Lawd!... When I saw the Phoenix effect start to manifest itself while she was holding back the water... it blew my mind.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
did they ever make any further reference in the comic to wolverine supposedly being centuries old?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
There was an episode many years ago that had him fighting in WWII. And the new mini series "Origins" had him starting off as a teenager in the 1890's, if I'm not mistaken.
I think "centuries" is a bit much, though.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
oh.. i heard a reference to a story that supposedly involved him in the 1700s, but im not sure where i got that from..
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
In the early 80s they used to drop occasional hints that Logan was a lot older than he looked. I remember one X-Men annual from the period had him mentally comment that the situation reminded him "of that bloody winter below Monte Cassini", a hint that Logan had fought in Italy in WWII. Supposedly at the time the in-house origin for Wolverine had him being 60 years old, and Sabretooth was 120 years old and his father.
It's like the changes with his skeleton. Originally it was supposed to be entirely adamantium. Then they changed it to being laced with adamantium (apparently someone realized that whoever did this to him would have had one hell of a time threading the vertebrae around his nerves). The claws were always supposed to be built into bionic housings in the forearms (how these were able to extend through his wrists without seriously wrecking the joints was another thing never addressed). Then one of the writers had him pop his claws after losing the adamantium, and boy, did that generate comments! (To Marvel's credit, the first time he did it after losing the adamantium, everyone was shocked -- even Logan!)
One interesting thing about the way the claws extended in the Origins mini-series. Instead of popping out between his metacarpals (the bones of the palms) as the movies and most of the comics have his claws do, the artist has them extending from the surfaces of the first three palm bones themselves. While this makes sense from the aspect of the whole wrist joint problem, it raises another difficulty: just how the blazes would he be able to do that after his bones have been sheathed in adamantium? Isn't the stuff supposed to be indestructible?
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
RAMA: Fair enough. Did you read the Origin of Wolverine?
CLAREMONT: Which one?
NRAMA: [laughs] The Paul Jenkins miniseries.
CLAREMONT: I did read it. So you were saying?
NRAMA: Was that the way it was meant it to be?
CLAREMONT: I would rather not say. Paul has his ideas.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: There was an episode many years ago that had him fighting in WWII. And the new mini series "Origins" had him starting off as a teenager in the 1890's, if I'm not mistaken.
I think "centuries" is a bit much, though.
That was DEFINITELY one of comics worst stories despie incredible Jim Lee artwork! In that story Wolverine, The Black Widow (as a young girl) and captain America team up to stop Baron Strucker and HYDRA from joining forces with the Hand ninjas. First, someone really should have pointed out to Claremont that his story is set a few months before the Pearl Harbor attack!!!!!!! There would have been NO Captain America BEFORE WWII started (as per every Cap story ever written)! He really makes a point of saying that WWII is "a few months away" during the story and they need to prevent this alliance now! Ug. What a moron. Next, this story puts the Black widow at close to 70 years old by current times (she's lookin' hot for a 70 year old human in the Avengers) and last time I checked, her only time-defying healing factor was "Max Factor". Lastly HYDRA was formed after WWII by nazi war crimminals into a terrorist organization: Strucker was a SS Comandant IIRC. Skip this story unless you want to develop instant pathological hatred for Chris Claremont. He's a good writer overall, but he was burnt out on "X-Everything" that Marvel was tryng to milk sales with back then and those were the last X-books he'd write for a few years.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: First, someone really should have pointed out to Claremont that his story is set a few months before the Pearl Harbor attack!!!!!!! There would have been NO Captain America BEFORE WWII started (as per every Cap story ever written)!
Maybe they were using the starting date of WWII as defined by the rest of the world, rather than the starting date the US uses?
Unlikely, I know...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Cap didint come about before Pearl Harbor. He joined up because of it. Wolverine being 100+ years old has always bothered me: it makes him a highlander knock off with claws (what with all the flashback issues and all).
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Except, of course, that all this stuff with Logan being a lot older than he looks started years before Highlander hit the screen.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I am so far behind on watching big screen movies, I haven't even seen Nemesis yet. I may have to rent a huge screen tv for a weekend from a rent to own to watch it at least some what correctly....
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Um, wouldn't the theatres be cheaper?
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: Except, of course, that all this stuff with Logan being a lot older than he looks started years before Highlander hit the screen.
Really? I don't remember any references to it until the very late eighties.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
quote:Oh and what about when Jean used Xavier to talk to Scott - sad moment but - for a moment there (and I did laugh - which soughta spoilt the moment for me!) It looked as if Xavier(Jean Controlled)/Scott were going to Kiss! LOL! See if you can spot it too!
Funny thing, that's not the first time Patrick Stewart has been in such a situation. In Lifeblood he plays a scientist who gets possessed by a nude space vampire, and the main guy has this confrontation with him/her/it during which you see either PS or the actress (Mathilde May) on this table. And since the hero has a thing for the vamp, there are a few intense (-ly hilarious) moments of staring into each others eyes. . .
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That's Lifeforce. Not a bad movie for creepy spaceship design.
...and Wolverine being older than hell was started back in the late 80's after the Woverine comic became a monthly thing. It started with stories of him being a settler in the Canadian woods with a native indian girl called Silver Fox. The memories all turned out to be false (along with most of his origin) and Silver Fox turned out to be a weapon X-er that was now a HYDRA bigwig. Admantium claws very much like the ones Deathstrike had in the movie were built into her hands. I sure don't remember if she was a mutant but I don't think so. I think Wolvie ended up killing her too...
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Lifeforce, yes. Where did I get Lifeblood from? Oh well. . .
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
The reference I noted about Wolverine remembering fighting near Monte Cassini was definitely early 80s, though. I had a copy of the annual in question (number 4, if memory serves) before I joined the Air Force, and I enlisted in August of 83. Logan's supposed ties (genetically speaking, of course) to Sabretooth were common knowledge in the comic book crowd (at least in my part of the country). All this was before Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X miniseries started muddying the waters of Logan's backstory. Back then his past was mysterious, not hopelessly convoluted.
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
The movie was excelent! I enjoyed it very much. I did hope to hear at least on comment about Mystique and NightCrawler lookig aline in the movie.
Also, did anyone notice that the claws of Lady Deathstrike were in at least one of the X-ray pictures? Pitty they never really fleshed out how she relates to the project, except for one simple reference.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by NightWing: The movie was excelent! I enjoyed it very much. I did hope to hear at least on comment about Mystique and NightCrawler lookig aline in the movie.
Alike? What - being blue? I liked their scene together.
quote:Originally posted by NightWing: Also, did anyone notice that the claws of Lady Deathstrike were in at least one of the X-ray pictures? Pitty they never really fleshed out how she relates to the project, except for one simple reference.
If you look in certain scenes (and certain magazines) there are X-rays of AT LEAST - Wolverine, Lady Deathstrike and even Archangel's Wing
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Finally saw it, very slick, and memorable. In fact, I'm enthoused enough to catch a second run, which was the last thing I expected.
Cartman's random thought of the day: jealous brother = serious liability
"drop the knives!"
"I can't, look..."
*pop*
Ah... the irony in having a thick skull, eh?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Saw it for the second time last night; damn good!!
The begining sequence in the White House, especially.
..and yes I did notice the part where it looked as though Stewart and Cyclops were about to kiss . Oh, and Colossus definitely had an American accent...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I would like to point out for the record that Petey has been going to this American school for a few years now. I knew an exchange student from the Netherlands who went to my high school for senior year, and after just one year in the US she had the colloquialisms down cold, had no trace of an accent, and when it came time to leave, she found she was having trouble remembering how to speak Dutch. I have no problem with the fact that in his few lines Colossus didn't sound like Chekov...
--Jonah
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Neither do I, just commenting. Although there's a Russian and 2 Germans at my school who've been there for a few years and don't have British accents. Just to be difficult Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Your school is like Yalta Jr.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Heh.
Saw it last night. I'm tempted to go all Simon on you guys and write some kind of an erudite thread of quasi-review, but for now I'm too damn lazy. The best subtle use of fanwank award has to go to whoever decided to put those folders on Stryker's computer desktop, though.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I have a legacy.
I'm pretty certain what looks like a wing in those x-rays is just, like, a shoulder-blade or something. I think I read that somewhere.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Actually, that whole plotline with Mystique, well, uncovering the plot on that computer. . . How likely is that? You leave the central details of your conspiracy to commit genocide on your PC desktop accessible easily by voiceprint, but then require a login and password to actually say where it's all going to happen?
The way she then gets out by impersonating the cleaner and carrying the trash (which is laughable, really) can in this instance be explained away by the fact that a) Lady Deathstrike was pretrty much zombified, and b) having low-paid menial work experience in high-security installations, I know that it's best not to get to curious, hence the janitor's reaction of "Hey! This man is my exact double! Hey! That dog has a puffy tail!"
Other plot-holes abound. For instance, Logan goes all the way to Alkali Lake yet makes only the most cursory of inspections. I'd have taken a closer look at the dam straight off.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The helicopter landing pad, for instance, might have been a clue.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
While we're in anal-retentive mode, I'm tempted to dig through all the research I did on the Columbia River Treaty for a paper last fall to verfiy my hunch that Canada has never had a "Department of Energy and Natural Resources" as that plaque at Alkali Lake asserted. Of course, the bigger issue might be that there isn't actually an "Alkali Lake" in the Canadian Rockies, let alone one with a dam. Stupid fiction.
Best plot hole I've found so far... how exactly does Logan cross the Canada-US border on the way up to Alkali Lake and then again on the return leg? Or does Xavier have a passport-forging machine tucked into a broom closet across the hall from Cerebro?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: I would like to point out for the record that Petey has been going to this American school for a few years now. I knew an exchange student from the Netherlands who went to my high school for senior year, and after just one year in the US she had the colloquialisms down cold, had no trace of an accent, and when it came time to leave, she found she was having trouble remembering how to speak Dutch. I have no problem with the fact that in his few lines Colossus didn't sound like Chekov...
--Jonah
OMG! THANKYOU! Someone who understands where I'm coming from. Why does it take someone else to summarise thousands of words and lots of posts in to one nice paragraph for me!?! Wanna do my Literature Assignment?
Exactly about the accent. Had a school aquaintance who went to Germany GERMANY for 1 year and came back speaking with an American accent... GERMANY!?! He was a fake though. He WAS doing it on the last day of school before he went away - but how could you keep that up for a year or more. Unless he did hang around people with American accents and picked it up... but dear oh dear! LOL!
Yes, I'm actually glad Piotr didn't sound like Chekov!
Actually I could see the movie a 3rd time! Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I have a legacy.
I'm pretty certain what looks like a wing in those x-rays is just, like, a shoulder-blade or something. I think I read that somewhere.
Um... me?
Read earlier several times through this thread.
You may have also read the Empire Magazine X-men special.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: Of course, the bigger issue might be that there isn't actually an "Alkali Lake" in the Canadian Rockies, let alone one with a dam. Stupid fiction.
Best plot hole I've found so far... how exactly does Logan cross the Canada-US border on the way up to Alkali Lake and then again on the return leg? Or does Xavier have a passport-forging machine tucked into a broom closet across the hall from Cerebro?
1. I live in Australia - and even I know that there is an Alkali Lake in the Rockies.
2. If they can build a jet that not even the US military can identify - than they can forge travel documents. They probably have a mutant who deals in that sort of stuff Like the mutant who has a knack for removing unsightly stains from your clothes and making your colours brighter than bright - and your whites whiter than white!
As for plot-holes... even the reviewer for a out paper said - ignore the pot-holes cause underneath is a damn-fine movie.
That is so true.
I mean we are talking about a movie with super-mutant-beings with and we worry about there being a few folders on strykers desk-top? For all we know - everyone else he worked with felt the same-way and didn't care less what was on his desk top - plus there were some quite difficult-to-pass security checkpoints.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
quote: ignore the pot-holes cause underneath is a damn-fine movie.
I would like to visit Australia and uncover more of these filmatic treasures buried underneath your pock-marked roads.
And, I mean, X2 was enjoyable, sure, but not so awesome that it can get away with inconsistancies.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
....as long as the word "crocidile" is not in the title, that is. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I thought you were on the "they're wings" side of things, Andrew?
Anyway, I assumed that Logan just wandered across the border somewhere away from a road. I mean, it isn't all fences and razorwire. I don't think. I guess it very well could be.
Though, come to think of it, does the movie ever come out and say the dam is even in Canada?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Magnus:
quote: ignore the pot-holes cause underneath is a damn-fine movie.
I would like to visit Australia and uncover more of these filmatic treasures buried underneath your pock-marked roads.
You know - subconsciously when I was typing that - I was thinking 'hey plot-holes is like pot-holes' LOL!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
WELL they say Alkali Lake - which is a well known lake in the Canadian Rockies!! Named after it's bright blue colour - which the water in the movie doesn't exactly look like - but maybe it depends on the time of the year.
Oh and it's "crocodile" Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Logan being Logan, he could've either circumvented customs by slicing through some barbed wire fences or hacked 'n slashed his way past a border station, depending on his mood...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
LOL! A whole movie in itself... Logan's trip to Alkali Lake.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
1) I can't believe you're still on about Colossus. I don't quite recall anyone arguing w/you about WHY he doesn't have a Russian accent. I do recall that I made the point that he does NOT have one in the movie, however.
Anyhow, John Allerdyce/Pyro should have an Australian accent. While, I'm not all that bothered by Pyro not having one, but am about Colossus, as his being from Russia is a major character asset for him, as he brought those simplistic values from the collective farm he grew up on to the U.S. w/him. For the longest time, he was the heart and soul of the team and it just doesn't seem right that he'd not be Russian. In the comics (up 'til the late '90's, anyhow), Piotr often used Russian language to communicate points/thoughts in dramatic moments - with such bits as: bozhe moi (my God), spaceba (thanks), da (yes) and tovarisch (comrade) heading up the list. Why would he use Russian words and phrases if he didn't have an accent at those times? Plus, IIRC from the comics, people would hear him speak and automatically say something like "Yer from Russia, ain't ya?" They'd have to pick that up from an accent....
On the other hand, it's not as integral for Pyro to be from Australia, however, as he was rarely ever more than a crutch of a bad guy. Sadly, they never thought enough of his character to develop it much in the comics and we've seen more character development in his movie version.
And finally, to give my perspective on the "foreigners learning a language w/o accent" thing - I've known a great many German's, Ukrainians, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino's and Mexican's in my life who came to the U.S. speaking little to no "American". The picked up most of their language here in The States and still have a strong accent from their homeland. Maybe the U.S. is more tolerant of people retaining an accent from their land of birth? On the flip side, I have also known people from the same lands that came to the U.S. as children and have very little to no home country accent. It just depends on their level of immersion into their current countries language, I guess.
2) The Canadian/American border isn't dominated by giant electrical fences tipped with razor wire and patrolled by dog-using U.S. Army troops or anything. It's actually wide open for several hundred miles in quite a few areas.
3) If you want to talk plot-holes, why is it that it only takes a few hours to travel from New York to the Rockies - a thousand or more miles distance - , yet it seemingly takes days to travel from New York to Boston...?
4) To back up "Woodside Kid", I too recall mention being made of Logan being involved in WWII in the mid-80's, tho not the specific referenced issue. For some reason, I'm remembering something about him having a flashback to the D-Day invasion and some young troop calling him "Sarge" as he lay dying on a beach. Seems the nametape we see clearly on his uniform pocket says "LOGAN", too. Wasn't 'til they got into all that "WeaponX" crap that it got all kinds of crazy w/the plot lines, and I want to say that actually started in "Marvel Presents". Also, wasn't there mention of Logan being a lot older than most folks thought in the first "Wolverine" miniseries?
5) I wish my comics weren't all boxed up, but I'm pretty certain that Lady Deathstrike wasn't a mutant in the comics. I also want to say that she was in a great deal of pain all the time, due in part to the adamantium in her claws. I'm also pretty certain that she initially had no adamantium armor (as I think that someone mentioned), tho wore some sort of armor. I do recall that she had been enhanced w/faster reflexes, tho. Didn't she also have poison in those claws?
Not trying to piss anyone off of bend them out of shape. Just wanted to give my thoughts on stuff.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Yes, she has no healing factor but a cyborg self-repairing system, I think, that she got from the Mojoverse. The metal in her body and her flexing fingers is not adamantium but just about as strong.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The Wing X-ray is about top right on the 'board' of X-rays.
It's the Humerus with feather looking things coming off of it.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Yes, she has no healing factor but a cyborg self-repairing system, I think, that she got from the Mojoverse. The metal in her body and her flexing fingers is not adamantium but just about as strong.
Ah, OK. I kind of remember that now. I'd forgotten about her dealings with... Six-armed chick... Bleach blonde... Seems like four of the arms were bionic in nature...
Grr....
I hate when my Old-timers kicks in like this. Chick who could teleport and was Mojo's Right Hand for a while. Had it in for Phoenix II (Rachel Summers from alternate timeline), didn't like Wolverine, ran w/the Reavers for a short time after giving them bionic enhancements, etc....
Dang it! I used to have an action figure of her! Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Spiral
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Yeah. That's what I said. I said "Spiral".
;-)
I reeeaaalllllly hate when my memory flatulates like that......
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
So it's OK to ignore the plot-holes in X-Men 2, but not the plot-holes in Star Trek: Nemesis?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The difference being, of course, that X2 was a *good* film and Nemesis was *not.*
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
lol... But this is a Trek site! No dissing the movies! Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Heh, heh. You could kind of see Mystique's boobies. Mmmm...
Seriously, though, spoilers coming.
That was a pretty great movie. I mean even the teen-romance bits were surprisingly sub-irritating. My eyes bugged the first time Logan clawed someone, I mean like a real non-android, non-robot person. "Dang," I was heard to exclaim. Magneto's Very exciting to someone only peripherally aware of the comic story arcs. My take on the movies has been that they are sort of a What-If? version rather than a straight adaptation. Nightcrawler kind of tore it up. Famke carried the movie. I heart the "Don't make me do this" scene. No boys were flying the plane, and that's cool. Mystique got a chance to demonstrate just how effective she can be. The finger was pretty great. Sir Ian was very good at being both weak (early) and powerful (later). Stryker was very cool and Brian Cox was very much responsible for this. Holy crap, what a cast. Patrick Stewart was kind of pissed away barring a few good scenes, and I could have done with a bit less (Academy Award winner) Halle Berry. But really a fun and exciting and cool-looking and just neato-torpedo movie (in which you could also kind of see Mystique's boobies.)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Cyclops was definitely the weakest performance, but fortunately they pretty much ignored him. I agree that the teen stuff was entirely tolerable. Even the kissy stuff with Rogue and Bobby was good, and Bobby's semi-jealous interaction with Logan was solid.
I want to know just how they did the Nightcrawler BAMF! effect and how much it cost, because, dang did they do it alot. And how sweet it was. One thing I didn't quite like at the end... $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ ...when Nightcrawler teleported inside Cerebro 2, I always thought is was physically impossible for him to teleport where he couldn't see. At least it was until late in the Excalibur run. They made it out to be something that just kind of made him uncomfortable but really wasn't that big of a deal as long as a hot chick rubbed him the right way.
Aban's wishlist for X3: Danger Room, lot's more Nightcrawler, and Sentinels, baby!
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Nightcrawler could always teleport where he couldn't see. However, he had a bit of a phobia about doing that for a great while, as he was - rightfully so, IMO - afraid of teleporting inside a wall or person. The only physical limitations that he's ever had were that he could only carry a finite amount of weight (initially) and that he could only teleport short distances.
On the issue of range, I think it was initially like 100m or thereabouts, tho it eventually got further and further as he got more page-time in the various comics he appeared in. IIRC, at one point in a comic he teleported to Muir Island from the mainland - a distance of several miles! - by doing several Line-Of-Site jumps, which seemed to be a bit easier on him. He was worn out by the end of it, but succeeded.
I also seem to recall him doing a "chain" of people one time and teleporting two or three others with him in an issue of X-calibur, tho might be wrong. Anybody back me up on this?
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
And also, during the "Fall of the Mutants" storyline, he received a head injury and teleporting was painful for a long time after that...
Plus the one thing I was annoyed wasn't used in the movie was the fact that people he takes with him are nauseated by the process. He actually used that as a fairly effective non-violent attack. *shrug*
--Jonah
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Ooooh! Yeah, I forgot about that. Took some of them a while to "adjust" to being made "uncomfortable", as I recall. In the comics, tho, Mystique was strangely immune to that effect.... Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Of course you mean Storm, right? :-D
In one of the latest X-Men mags Kurt teleports four miles.
I think they overused it in the movie, less would've been more, like 5 teleports instead of 15. It would've been impressive all the same.
And I think the effect and sound was too slow and hazy. The smoke looked nice, but a "BAMF!!" instead of "schwomm...schwomm" I would've liked.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I remember that, for the longest time in Excalibur, if Kurt teleported even once, it would exhaust him. Eventually, his skill returned, but he still had limits. There was some Nazi alternate dimension version of him could grab people and teleport them multiple times and they'd pass out.
I thought the attack on the president in the beginning was an awesome display of teleporting. It didn't seem like too much at all. That and his acrobatics are his main weapons.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Of course you mean Storm, right? :-D >SNIKT!<
No, I mean Mystique, actually - just as I wrote it.
In an issue from the late-'80's, Nightcrawler grabs her and does multiple 'ports with her in hopes of making her sick and unable to do anything. However, when he finally stops, she turns and very quickly knocks him on his backside. This was one of his first encounters with Mystique, IIRC, and when they were just starting to hint at her being his mother in the comics. Couple years before they came out with the truth of the matter.
quote:In one of the latest X-Men mags Kurt teleports four miles.
I think they overused it in the movie, less would've been more, like 5 teleports instead of 15. It would've been impressive all the same.
And I think the effect and sound was too slow and hazy. The smoke looked nice, but a "BAMF!!" instead of "schwomm...schwomm" I would've liked.
I agree w/you on them using it a bit too much in the White House scene, as well as the SFX being a bit less than I would have liked. I'd think it would have been very easy for them to have made it a bit more instantaneous like it appears to be in the comics. There was what I considered to be a noticable time-lag in his 'ports during the movie. Still, nicely done SFX, IMO. Not at all bad.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I remember that, for the longest time in Excalibur, if Kurt teleported even once, it would exhaust him. Eventually, his skill returned, but he still had limits. >SNIKT!<
I think that you're referring to the time when he first joined Excalibur, right? Immediately after the X-Men's first run-in w/the Marauders? I remember him having problems teleporting for a good while due to wounds he'd received during that time or perhaps after an encounter w/Magneto and the Brotherhood...?
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: I would like to point out for the record that Petey has been going to this American school for a few years now. I knew an exchange student from the Netherlands who went to my high school for senior year, and after just one year in the US she had the colloquialisms down cold, had no trace of an accent, and when it came time to leave, she found she was having trouble remembering how to speak Dutch. I have no problem with the fact that in his few lines Colossus didn't sound like Chekov...
--Jonah
OMG! THANKYOU! Someone who understands where I'm coming from. Why does it take someone else to summarise thousands of words and lots of posts in to one nice paragraph for me!?! Wanna do my Literature Assignment?
Exactly about the accent. Had a school aquaintance who went to Germany GERMANY for 1 year and came back speaking with an American accent... GERMANY!?! He was a fake though. He WAS doing it on the last day of school before he went away - but how could you keep that up for a year or more. Unless he did hang around people with American accents and picked it up... but dear oh dear! LOL!
Yes, I'm actually glad Piotr didn't sound like Chekov!
Actually I could see the movie a 3rd time!
Both Famke Janssen (Jean Grey) and Rebecca Romijn-Stamos (Mystique) are Dutch. You never notice that in the movie. But you should here them speak in Dutch nowadays. They actually have an American accent.
BTW: Famke Janssen was corrected in the first X-Men movie when she spoke one word wrong in her opening speach. When the people making the movie heard it was because she is Dutch they we're like 'What? We never noticed that'.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Despite the neglected accent, I think the acting between Piotr and Logan was very thought-through and multifaceted.
You could see Logan really thinking when presented with Piotr's assistance. Like, first he wants to cynically snap back that he needs no help from some student. But he restrains it becuase he sees that this "kid" is very well-meaning and kind and deserves better.
I think Logan was touched by it, frankly. Like, "someone wants to back me up?".
After that, Logan's new line is that clearly this kid could be an immense help but Logan wouldn't want his injury or death on his conscience, so he sends him to watch the smaller kids.
That's about as emotional a guy like Logan can be with another guy, and I was impressed that Jackman managed to convey it in those short moments. He really is good.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Wolverine has always been a loner... him accepting the kid's help would have been out of character, sort of, because he's man enough to swallow his pride when cornered.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
quote:The difference being, of course, that X2 was a *good* film and Nemesis was *not.*
Well, no offense, but the way you lot came in your pants over that unmitigated pile of diarrhoeic whaleshit that was Spiderhyphenman doesn't go a whole way towards estabishing your lack of bias in these matters. . .
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet:
quote:The difference being, of course, that X2 was a *good* film and Nemesis was *not.*
Well, no offense, but the way you lot came in your pants over that unmitigated pile of diarrhoeic whaleshit that was Spiderhyphenman doesn't go a whole way towards estabishing your lack of bias in these matters. . .
Uhh...I actually did not like Spider-Man, and I've never said that I did. I thought they did a piss-poor job of incorporating the vast hatred between the Goblin and Spidey. WHY OH WHY did they *have* to use Mary Jane instead of doing the whole Gwen Stacy story? That would have made a very dramatically satisfying film...
I very much liked X2 because the story did a *good* job of incorporating a lot of the important background from the comics without making the movie seem bloated, and it had a very appropriate Star Wars-esque feel in that it was a smooth continuation of the first film and lead-in to the next. More importantly, the acting and characterization was pretty much spot-on. (Brian Cox was so awesome as Stryker! He plays such a great villain...the original Hannibal Lecter... )
-MMoM Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet:
quote:The difference being, of course, that X2 was a *good* film and Nemesis was *not.*
Well, no offense, but the way you lot came in your pants over that unmitigated pile of diarrhoeic whaleshit that was Spiderhyphenman doesn't go a whole way towards estabishing your lack of bias in these matters. . .
And I have to say that your... "colorful commentary"... on same show an obvious bias against. Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Oh, come on! It was shit. Acting - shit. Script - shit. Plot - shit. Effects - shit. I'm sorry, but we should all count ourselves lucky that with the X-Men franchise we have had (so far) a director and creative team who actually care about doing a good job, something that couldn't be said for Spider-Man or Star Trek: Nemesis, where it's been plainly obvious that a "what the heck, the punters'll lap up whatever crap we throw at them" mentality exists.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Yes. Totally unbiased.... Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
So, my utter dislike for that rancid pile of celluloid known as Spider-Man is evidence of my total bias against. . . films. . . called. . . Spider-Man? I see.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Yes. Totally unbiased....
Well, to be frank, ALL opinions are biased. That's sort of the point.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Why would you want to be Frank?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
As long as you're not Frank Burns, I guess it's alright...
No, my point to "Vogon Poet" deals more w/the use of the expletives to illustrate the opinion. Shows massive bias on the individual's part when one feels the overwhelming "need" to use such and what I consider to be lack of an open mind. It's one thing to have an opinion, but another to be highly critical in such a fashion. Thus my Rolling Of The Eyes in disdain and commentary on the bias.
And I got no problem with people having opinions. I have a few of those myself from time to time. Or so I'm told by Wife.
No, my problem is with the aforementioned seeing lack of open-mindedness and apparent need of belitting a movie that some others might have liked in such a fashion. It's obviously a need on the individual's part to make others feel stupid for liking Spider-man, as well as forestall anyone arguing with him on anything to do with the movie because it was such "shit".
How 'bout "Whatever!" That make ya'll fee better? I could put a bunch of curse words in there, like every other word if that makes it right...?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
He's just stating his opinion for God's sake; he can do it any way he likes!! It' not a lack of open mindedness- presumeably he had an open mind before he saw the film at which point he formed the opinion that the film was shit. And it wasn't exactly the best film ever made was it?
X-men was better in all areas. Hopefully any future films will be also.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: And it wasn't exactly the best film ever made was it?
Yes it was! It was an obvious Citizen Kane analog: Aunt May was Rosebud. I can't believe you did'nt get that....
C'mon guys! It's a fuckin' comic book movie! You like it or you don't . Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Oh, goody. A newbie's decided to attack me personally. Don't they ever learn?
Obviously he's much more intelligent than I am. You can tell this because he's put my name in "inverted commas." Genius! (by which of course I mean, stupid cunt!)
I've never been a Spiderman fan, really. The 1980's Harry Hamlin show did a lot to cauterize any particular regard I had for the concept. But all the same, I was aware that given how long it had taken to finally make a film (I can even remember the circa-1990 rumours, of James Cameron and Michael Biehn etc.) and knew that given the amount of anticipation shown everywhere, this was a film that Had To Be Seen. So I did, expecting to see something special.
So, this obviously illustrates my bias because by GriffTwat's lights I should have gone to see it knowing I was going to see The Greatest Film Of All Time, and more importantly coming out afterwards firmly believing I had just seen the Greatest Film Of All Time.
quote:No, my problem is with the aforementioned seeing lack of open-mindedness and apparent need of belitting a movie that some others might have liked in such a fashion. It's obviously a need on the individual's part to make others feel stupid for liking Spider-man, as well as forestall anyone arguing with him on anything to do with the movie because it was such "shit".
Or in other words, "MOMMMMMMYYYYYY!!! He's being horrible about Spider-Man! Make him stop!" I'm sorry, did I say anywhere that anyone who liked Spider-Man was stupid? I don't think it was a very good film. Its flaws seem quite apparent to me and I'm mystifed why it continue to hold such high regard in people's minds. All I ever meant to say was, maybe given the high level of anticipation that builds before seeing such films, maybe some people aren't being particularly objective about them.
Hence, my question about why plot holes in Nemesis (most of which would be unknown to a non-Trekkie viewer, which I'm not but can experience, say, through my own wife who is a non-Trekkie) are enough to totally condemn the film while any plot holes in X-Men 2 (and I'm not an X-Men fan particularly, and know little of the mythology) aren't anywhere near as important.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Wow. A very mature and well thought out response that gets about as insulting as anything I've ever seen online. Thanks for confirming my thoughts regarding you. I really appreciate it.
Again, I never said you don't have a right to an opinion. However, the social implication of continuously calling the movie "shit" over and over and over and over and over - ad naseum - indicates that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Didn't I say this above...?
It's rather ironic, but someone whom I disagree with constantly has said it best at another forum: Best tool for a weak argument: Name calling.
BTW, put your name in "quotes" as I did because you don't seem to have the cojones to put your real name in your posts while being sophomorically insulting. Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
My name is Lee. And one of my cats has gone missing. And you're boring me.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
OK. Glad I could hold your attention span as long as I did, as well as entertain you for this short while. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Your name is Lee? I thought it was Kosh...oh wait... Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
People who go see movies are stupid.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Oh, come on, "Sol System". Surely you can do better than that for Trolling! Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
1014 - 30 = Brilliant Old Timer.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Not sure if you're attempting some sort of algebra equation or what, but yes, I know that "Sol System" is an Old Timer here - he is, after all a moderator, neh? My response was meant in jest - and apparently a poor one, at that.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
So does Voggy like Spiderman or not? Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Also terrible: fiction of any kind. All I watch is the greyhound races these days.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
He doesn't "get it"! Get it?
Why, just the other day, I went to the cinema and watched "The Return Of The Mutants With Weird Powers", and it was silliness exemplified! People tripping over one another and spilling beer and popcorn on the floor AND ON MY SEAT and talking loud and not turning off their mobile phones and standing in front of the screen and little kids CRYING AND SCREAMING! The "stupidity" of it all!
So.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: People who go see movies are stupid.
We am not!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wackiness detour aside, I just think this is maybe not the most serious thing to get worked up about. I didn't like Nemesis for reasons very different from not liking, say, The Hot Chick, or whatever, and liked X2 for different reasons than I liked Spider-Man. So, the causal connections are lost on me, and stuff.
Besides, Bad Boys II will be the only film that matters.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Could we please do me a favor and return to and maintain a rather nice discourse in this thread? I'd rather not go all Wolverine on this thread, you know.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Whatever. My cat is dead.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
All I watch is the greyhound races these days.
Those are staged, Simon. It's more fake than pro wrestling.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: All I watch is the greyhound races these days.
Those are staged, Simon. It's more fake than pro wrestling.
Especially when the greyhounds break chairs over each others heads. Just silly.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Pro wresteling is real: Fox News is staged.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
LOL! Classic! Yeah the 'rabbit' they chase isn't even a RABBIT! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The "It's more fake than pro wrestling" comment has always confused me. I mean, everyone knows it is. They don't try and hide it or anything. Isn't it like saying "It's more fake than that film where everyone pretended to be people that they weren't really. They had different names and everything!"
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
"It's more fake than Jolene Blalok's breasts!"
Is that better? Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The "It's more fake than pro wrestling" comment has always confused me. I mean, everyone knows it is.
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