Not suprised that they did essentially a "ship" show this early to save a little production money. And of course they happened to have two extras in the cockpit area when they got wedged in the stargate.
Some interesting points, though: A stargate sends "all or nothing", meaning that the front part of the jumper would cease to exist when the stargate shut off. Also, it seems that unless you do go all the way into the event horizon, you can back out and not go through. Ford's hand happened to not go in, and they pulled him out.
I still like Dr. Beckett, the Scottish guy.
Any clues as to what nationality they tech guy is? You know, the one with the ear piece? He has an interesting accent that I can't place.
The American with the braided ponytail is a real ass. I don't think Weir was serious at first, but after he laughed at her, I wouldn't put it past her.
Okay, is it just me, or do more of the alien humans know English than do our Earth humans? There was the one Czech guy who just barely knew how to speak English.
B.J.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm very proud to say that I came up with the final solution of blowing the rear hatch, before anyone on the show mentioned the idea. I love it when I can think ahead like that.
After four hours of the show, I still think that McKay is my favorite character. I have a real soft spot for smart-aleck, pain-in-the-ass characters. (As opposed to total assholes like the guy with the braided ponytail.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Any clues as to what nationality they tech guy is? You know, the one with the ear piece? He has an interesting accent that I can't place."
In the pilot, his jacket (which I don't think he's worn since) had a British flag on it. But he spoke in Spanish to a Spanish guy, so it's possible his accent is supposed to be Spanish/English.
Here's a question about this episode: why did the vampire spider come back to life at the end, just in time to be sucked out into space?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
FOR DRAMA!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
As lower-budget "bottle" shows go, this was a remarkably good drama in the vein of "Apollo 13". I had my doubts about the Ford character, fearing he'd be left behind like Kim or Wesley or any show's token "young guy". But he's being given a lot of character-driven stuff to do and say, and while we haven't dealt as much with his personal background yet (as with everyone but Weir, really), I do hope they'll give it to him. The actor is obviously capable of delivering.
Tiny complaint - what was with all the civilian clothes at the end? I know that the Atlantis team is principally a civilian operation with added military force, but shoudl they be THIS comfy? Why bring all thes civvie outfits? Teyla especially - those are certainly not of her own culture's motif. Who lent here THAT stuff... Or did they just get all the actors to shoot something at the end before they went home for the evening?
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"FOR DRAMA!"
What drama? The drama of knowing the thing is going to be conscious when it gets freeze-dried in the vacuum of space? Or maybe we're supposed to think it could possibly show up again one day as a recurring villain?
[ August 01, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I'm very proud to say that I came up with the final solution of blowing the rear hatch, before anyone on the show mentioned the idea.
Me too. Though I was more dismayed that they seemed surprised when the ship didn't start moving after they retracted the pod. I mean... DUH. But I laughed out loud at Ford throwing himself against the front wall trying to get the ship moving.
Here's a question about this episode: why did the vampire spider come back to life at the end, just in time to be sucked out into space?
My guess is that it coming back to life gave them an excuse to put it on camera as being sucked into space.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nit #2: On at least one occasion, you can see someone walk in front of the event horizon intersecting the Jumper, and see the shadow cast by the actor on the rear-screen projection.
Mark
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: I'm very proud to say that I came up with the final solution of blowing the rear hatch, before anyone on the show mentioned the idea. I love it when I can think ahead like that.
Yeah, about the exact instant they said "we're not moving!", I yelled "Blow the hatch!".
BTW, have we seen any other instances of someone backing out of an open gate before they go all the way through? I know O'Neill held a gate open with a pistol before, but that was on the receiving end.
B.J.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
In the second epsiode of the first season, Teal'c and a Goa'ulded Major Kawalsky were fighting in front of the gate, and parts of them ducked in and out of the event horizon at least once. Then they turned off the gate with the back of Kawalsky's head in it - slice!
Mark
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I didn't like the preview playing every commercial break showing McKay bitching about how they're screwed. I really hope he's suppose to whine about how he's going to die in every episode.
I always thought that objects in the stargate immediately showed up on the other side. So if I stuck my arm through the gate it would instantely appear on the other side while the rest of me was still in the SGC. I remember one episode when O'Neill pretended to quit the SGC and join Colonel Maybourne we see the stargate from the top with the SGC on one side and an alien world on the other so as O'Neill stepped through he instantely on the other side and basically at both places at the same time.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yeah, but that doesn't prove anything, since it was just a fancy shot. It doesn't mean that he was definitely sticking through both ends of the wormhole at once.
Besides, to accept that, you'd have to ignore all of the instances where they've shown that a trip through the wormhole takes time.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yes. However, Teal'c has, if I recall correctly, stood on one side of the gate and fired a grappling hook attached to a rope through it, one imagines in the hopes of it coming out the other side and catching something. (Specifically, this is that one episode where a stargate gets buried by, uh, meteorite-related activity, I think.) But perhaps he figured it would come out before him (and hopefully, well, grapple) since it had gone in before him.
I'm usually not a big fan of "the gate knows how to do things" plot points, though.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Ooh, you're right. That's the one where the gate gets buried and O'Neill is trapped for a few months. The one where the MALP goes through and falls back in, because the gate is sideways.
The problem, of course, is that Teal'c started climbing through and left part of the rope behind in the SGC. Which means that, by the new "38 Minutes" logic, he and the rope never would have materialized on the other side, until the entire rope was in.
I guess we can assume that someone in the SGC just tossed the rest of the rope into the wormhole after him.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Though, as you point out, there are plenty of other scenes that seem to show people stepping through the gate and then being dematerialized. Well, at least in the movie...
Also, I almost forgot:
quote:What drama? The drama of knowing the thing is going to be conscious when it gets freeze-dried in the vacuum of space? Or maybe we're supposed to think it could possibly show up again one day as a recurring villain?
WHAT IF IT BITES HIM BEFORE HE HITS THE SWITCH THEY WILL ALL DIE?!?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
You couldn't have kept forgetting?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Yes. However, Teal'c has, if I recall correctly, stood on one side of the gate and fired a grappling hook attached to a rope through it, one imagines in the hopes of it coming out the other side and catching something. (Specifically, this is that one episode where a stargate gets buried by, uh, meteorite-related activity, I think.) But perhaps he figured it would come out before him (and hopefully, well, grapple) since it had gone in before him.
I'm usually not a big fan of "the gate knows how to do things" plot points, though.
I admit this is rationalizing what's probably a plot hole or inconsistency, but what the heck!
It seems to me that the Stargate considers objects by their being connected to things. Therefore, if four individual people step through the 'Gate, then they're treated as four separate objects. But if four people inside a spaceship try to fly through the gate, then the ship itself is the primary object in question, and the people inside are treated as parts of the containing object (the ship).
For the example of Teal'c firing the line of rope through the Stargate and then going through himself, we can only assume that the 'Gate recognized that the person and the rope were two separate objects.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Hmm... the "weapon" that Teal'c used to fire the grappling hook with, was it portable (like a Stinger missile launcher) or static? Maybe that had something to do with why the gate rematerialized the hook even though the back end of the rope attached to it hadn't gone through yet.
I think this is all ascribing too much intelligence to the gate, though.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
There might be a practical limit on the size/length of the object passing through the event horizon. If it's enough to potentially overload the molecular buffer, the gate may default and send it through anyway.
WRT Teal'c harpoon, we also know that objects entering the gate exit it at about the same velocity, as long as both gates are working properly (remember early episodes when they would tumble out of the gate - it's 'cuz they hadn't gotten everything working on the Earth side yet). So IF the harpoon was in limbo before someone tossed the rope in after Teal'c supposedly took a run at the gate, passed through, and grabbed hold before sinking backwards through the EH, the harpoon could have exited shortly before he did, embedded itself, and then he came through.
Then there was the time they all got stuck on the prison world Hadante... The gate would periodically open and a stream of porridge would shoot through into a trough to feed the prisoners. I wonder how that worked - liquid matter isn't like a space ship passing through, but would the stream qualify as a discrete object?
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't remember which ep it was in, but Carter has said that the Gate detects pressure on the event horizon, or something, and determines whether or not something is trying to pass through it. That could have something to do with it too. As long as there is motion through the Gate, or perhaps a continuous string of matter, it considers it a single opbject. Maybe Teal'c's rope just didn't have enough matter in it to qualify.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I think you're talking about 'Watergate", where they sorta addressed the fan question of what would happen if you tried to open a gate underwater.
You know what - I wonder if the gate magically re-orients stuff that passes through it... On planetbound gates it's no problem as the gate is always right-side up, but what about the orbital ones? Did the pilots in both cases we saw try to right the ship before they went through the gate? Or perhaps it's automatic - they did mention at one point that there may be an autopilot involced when you[re actually threading the needle.
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"what would happen if you tried to open a gate underwater"
Or in a vaccum. (To somewhere that wasn't, I mean. Or vice versa.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
And, on that same topic, I've always wondered if it matters which side of the gate you walk through. The "SG-1" gates all have a front and a back, but the space gates on "Atlantis" seem to be symmetrical.
"For the example of Teal'c firing the line of rope through the Stargate and then going through himself, we can only assume that the 'Gate recognized that the person and the rope were two separate objects."
There's still a problem with that, though. The rope never fully entered the wormhole, so it still never should have exited on the other planet (according to "38 Minutes").
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: And, on that same topic, I've always wondered if it matters which side of the gate you walk through. The "SG-1" gates all have a front and a back, but the space gates on "Atlantis" seem to be symmetrical.
Actually, no. And we've only seen the one Stargate hanging out in space -- the one around the Wraith planet. If you looked closely in the pilot episode, all of the little Wraith fighters were focusing on one side of the 'Gate, blocking the approach of the Puddle-Jumper. That suggests to me that the 'Gate is not symmetrical.
Out of curiosity, did we ever find out what would happen if you tried to enter the Stargate from the wrong side?
quote:There's still a problem with that, though. The rope never fully entered the wormhole, so it still never should have exited on the other planet (according to "38 Minutes").
Ah, good point. I forgot about that. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Out of curiosity, did we ever find out what would happen if you tried to enter the Stargate from the wrong side?
I've never seen it. We've seen the view from the backside of an active Gate, but I odn't think anyone's ever walked through. My guess would be one of three things:
1) Nothing. Once the wormhole begins at the event horizon, it travels through subspace, not normal space, so there is literally nothing behind the gate. You'd pop through to the front side of the Gate with the event horizon directly behind you.
2) You'd vaporize. I don't know why but it would look cool.
3) Something wierd and worthy of an entire episode worth of trying to undo.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Since the gate looks exactly the same, on both sides, it LOOKS like it's intended to be used both ways, though when the wormhole forms, it 'shooshes' out the front. On the other tentacle, the shield is only on ine side, so no exit on the other side..
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Do the Chevrons light up on the back too? What about the symbols? Does it have symbols on the back?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
In the Stargate movie, the event horizon atually forms a swirling inverse whirlpool on the other side. This is omitted from the series, probably for cost-saving reasons.
And while I have yet to see SGA on actual television, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the new wormhole effect? It's certainly passable, but the "tube" thing has been done to death in sci-fi. I really like the "twin ribbon" effect from the feature film, and hoped they'd just do a variation of that... SG-1 had been trapped with those 30 seconds of VFX for its entire run, so new stff was expected - I just wished it would be a little more unique than the transwarp / wormhole / slipstream / whatever stuff we've had over the past few years.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"In the Stargate movie, the event horizon atually forms a swirling inverse whirlpool on the other side. This is omitted from the series, probably for cost-saving reasons."
Actually, they did do that in the black hole episode.
"That suggests to me that the 'Gate is not symmetrical."
I meant "symmetrical" in the sense that the actual ring itself looks the same on both front and back. the "SG-1" gates look different on the back (they're pretty much flat, if I remember correctly).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: And while I have yet to see SGA on actual television, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the new wormhole effect? It's certainly passable, but the "tube" thing has been done to death in sci-fi.
Well, how many different variations of the "passage through space-time" imagery are there, anyway? Not all that many. From the movies I've seen, there's the 2001 style (which is just lots of psychedelic flashing lights in random patterns), there's the "ribbon" effect from Stargate and also Babylon 5, and then there's the classic tube in all its variations, most notably in Star Trek and the movie Contact, among others.
There aren't that many other options, IMO. Maybe I just lack imagination. Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Agreed.
Plus what you "see" hardly seems relevant, because you're all dematerialised and stuff anyways....which does bring up the question of why you would see anything at all, with the whole lacking eyes thing. Oh well.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm in the middle of reading Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time, and on page 163, he specifically describes a wormhole as "a thin tube of space-time which can connect two nearly flat regions far apart."
If he considers a wormhole to be a tube, who are we to disagree? Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Doesn't have to be a VISIBLE tube.. I think he means theorhetical either way, meaning that it's a "tube" through which normal matter can pass between two regular planes of space-time far enough apart not to be affected by each other.
Or not.
Mark
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I know the gate system is supposed to be intelligent and all, but I just can't imagine that it exclusively sends discreet objects through. I mean how many times have we seen weapons fire being passed through. How would the gate make the distinction between the vapor trail and the object? And if it's a blob of plasma then it's probably trailing a bit of goo behind. What about engine exhaust from the jumpers? How does it distinguish? This isn't even getting into the idea of the gates in black holes and stars and how it would try to make discreet objects of entire stellar masses. There's the energy quanta question too. What I'm saying is that I think that's kind of silly and is a needless distraction from what has been and continues to be an exciting venue for storytelling. I am officially deciding to ignore the gate-tech knowledge gleaned from this episode.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"What I'm saying is that I think that's kind of silly and is a needless distraction from what has been and continues to be an exciting venue for storytelling."
Well, by that logic, they did things right. After all, if the story takes full precedence, shouldn't it be okay to slightly contradict previously implied technological details in order to write a good story?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, saying that the front half of the ship would come through just fine if they couldn't get themselves unstuck wouldn't do much damage to the story. I mean, the people in the front were just extras. Who cares about them anyway? On the other hand, that raises the question of why couldn't they just walk through the gate. You could make it so that the gate doesn't actually show up inside of things (which still bugs me for some reason), but then the characters have access to the controls. But, one supposes that in that case you could always just say "the controls are damaged" instead of "something is damaged."
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"On the other hand, that raises the question of why couldn't they just walk through the gate."
Exactly. If the front of the ship were in Atlantis, everyone just goes there, they break a window, crawl out, and shut the gate down.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: ... After all, if the story takes full precedence, shouldn't it be okay to slightly contradict previously implied technological details in order to write a good story?
TWOK is my favorite movie of all time, so of course it is. Fair enough. But I've always felt that the strength of the Stargate concept is that every week it opens windows to new worlds, new and different planets (in different galaxies now?) our heroes can walk into and shoot at things. And with such a fertile playground should not need to resort to technobabbling this limitation onto said story vehicle. I mean it did look neat and it was an interesting episode, granted (I'm not that familiar with this show, but I like the Quentin Tarentino engineer and I think the base commander is pretty in an interesting way). It's just the limitations this imposes on the writers of new episodes w/r/t technical continuity may not be worth it. (ie. I'm walking next to a 75 meter long antenna assembly through the gate. I'm somewhere near the middle of the antenna when it takes me aproximately a half a second to cross the gate's event horizon. When I come through, do I pop out at the same position relative to the antenna? What if at the last second, they decide to use a smaller mast instead and pull the antenna back out? Do I still arrive at the other end and just not see the half antenna that had been next to me sticking out of the gate? What about my lucky hyperspace-transit silver dollar that I had been flipping and catching nervously as I walked (and was in mid-air as it entered)? Would I still catch it (assuming a coordinated, science-fictionionalized version of myself), it taking several dozen milliseconds longer for my body to fully enter than the gate after the coin?)
Also I have always felt like SG was a less technological transport than scan-destroy at one end and re-construct on the other. I always just assumed it was opening a physics-type wormhole between the two planes of the gates. But obviously I don't know that much about Stargate so I'm probably dumb.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"(ie. I'm walking next to a 75 meter long antenna assembly through the gate. I'm somewhere near the middle of the antenna when it takes me aproximately a half a second to cross the gate's event horizon. When I come through, do I pop out at the same position relative to the antenna? What if at the last second, they decide to use a smaller mast instead and pull the antenna back out? Do I still arrive at the other end and just not see the half antenna that had been next to me sticking out of the gate? What about my lucky hyperspace-transit silver dollar that I had been flipping and catching nervously as I walked (and was in mid-air as it entered)? Would I still catch it (assuming a coordinated, science-fictionionalized version of myself), it taking several dozen milliseconds longer for my body to fully enter than the gate after the coin?)"
Yes, those are going to be extremely important to a future story. And any story based on those premises would be the best show ever.
What's wrong with you?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Yes, those are going to be extremely important to a future story. And any story based on those premises would be the best show ever.
What's wrong with you?
Too much peanut butter probably. My dumb argument was lost before it even began.
I guess what I'm really worried about is the Stargate writers starting to get caught up in transporter accident-type stories rather than focusing on stories where people go to strange new worlds and shoot at things. It seems like that's what the show is supposed to do.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
WARNING CRANIAL PRESSURE APPROACHING CRITICAL WARNING OVERTHINKING IMMINENT WARNING
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I've just thought of the perfect explanation for the apparent conflict in how the 'Gates handle large and/or long objects: After all, the Ancients built the 'Gates in the Milky Way first, and so the 'Gates in the Pegasus Galaxy could be considered "Mark II" 'Gates -- they obviously look different, anyway. So though they're interoperable with the Mark I's, they could function differently in minor respects.
Just a thought, anyway. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Okay.. But then how would they already know that the Pegasus gates are different? Had they had a few experiences already and noted how they operate in contrast with the more familiar gates?
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes.
Problem solved. I feel better.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
What's with the "this is the only gate in this galaxy that can get us back to Earth" claim, then, while we're at it. Though I think this is brought up in the episode after this one. Anyway, there doesn't appear to be anything special about the gate on Earth that they used to get there, so why should they need a special one to get back? After all, every gate has nine chevrons, suggesting that they can all be used for, uh, Long Distance. Previously it's just been made out to be a power issue.
I suppose one could rationalize "this gate" to mean "this gate and the complex support machinery that surrounds it" and "can get us back to Earth" to mean "without having to, like, carry a bunch of extra wires and stuff needed to connect extra power to some other gate." Kind of klunky, though.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yeah, I'd wondered about that, too. I think I ended up assuming it was the only one they could be sure of being able to hook up a ZPM to.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I agree that it's probably the issue of the support machinery that makes the Atlantis 'Gate special, but.... the Earth 'Gate isn't special, is it? They just managed to jerry-rig a power hookup at the SGC, right? That means that if the Wraith have some sufficient power source, and they discover the coordinates, then they should be able to reach Earth from any 'Gate they want.
The only other reason I can think of for all other 'Gates in the Pegasus Galaxy being unable to dial up Earth would be if those 'Gates didn't have all of the "buttons" (constellation-symbols) present, and thus are simply hard-coded to be incapable of dialing Earth. That would be a practical defense measure if the Ancients built the Pegasus Galaxy 'Gate system after they encountered the Wraith, but I'd always assumed that they settled the galaxy first, and then encountered the Wraith. But that also seems to me to be an unwarranted assumption at this stage, seeing as how so many of the 'Gates are as yet undiscovered by the Atlantis team. How would they know for certain that all of the other 'Gates are unable to dial Earth, without taking a complete survey of all the 'Gates in the galaxy? If there's even one other 'Gate, somewhere in Pegasus, that can dial Earth, then they're screwed.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
That means that if the Wraith have some sufficient power source, and they discover the coordinates, then they should be able to reach Earth from any 'Gate they want.
And just so long as nobody tells them we have an iris, I'm just fine with that. How 'bout you? Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm guessing here that it takes more than just a whole lot of power to make the gate go to another galaxy. Typically, when you dial in an invalid address, the powerup sequence just stops. Something had to be done to the gate, in SG-1's case probably through the gizmo that O'Neil created, to enable the gate to unlock the eighth chevron. I'd say that both the SCG and Atlantis gates have been modified through Ancient technology, directly or indirectly, to enable another galaxy to be dialed up.
Therefore, this assumes that the SGC still has the gizmo that O'Neil made, or was able to cobble up the equivalent using Ancient tech. Anyone rememeber the hologram from the Atlantis pilot? I'm not sure, but she said something about Atlantis being the key to getting access back home. So, maybe the alternate IS that the Atlantis gates are hard-wired, too.
With several possible explanations to choose from, I guess it's just up to us that the characters know what they're doing.
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
You're right, the hologram did say something about Atlantis being the only way to get to Earth. I'd forgotten about that.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Uh, hi.
It took me this long to notice there was SG discussion going on here... I'm really looking forward to seeing Atlantis. And the last three seasons of SG-1, for that matter. It all sounds like great fun (even if the Atlantis uniforms and sets sent shivers of Babylon 5 -class "criminal misuse of shoestring budget" fright up and down my spine).
Uh, anyway. People here are talking about Teal'c firing a grapple through the wormhole in "100 Days" to secure himself above the event horizon. Is it just my early Alzheimer's, or did not Teal'c go through the wormhole first, popping up like a cork on the receiving end, *then* fire the grapple before he fell back?
And aren't ropes and similar long objects prone to snapping when sent through the wormhole? The one that was tied to Ernest back in 1945 did that. Clearly, the wormhole didn't bother to wait until the line/airhose was "all the way through" before releasing Ernest at the other end. Is a long object subjected to great stresses or something?
Or was the wormhole just violently interrupted by some sort of a malfunction at the Earth end? Generally, those don't seem to be fatal to the traveler; witness several "nick of the time" escapes from locations where the sending Gate was about to receive major punishment.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The 1945 test probably had limited power available. Remember, they had no clue what the thing was. They thought the event horizon was water, which is why they duded him up in that diving suit. In fact, the Gate could've been on the whole time they were getting him suited up and dressed (a thought which had not occured to me until just now). I was always under the impression that the line was cut when the Gate shut off. I guess I'd have to watch it again to be sure, though. But given my new revelation, it's possible that the Gate reached its 38 minute limit soon after Ernest went through, explaining why it suddenly shut off.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I think you're right. In any case, they didn't know about the 38-minute limit at that time, and who knows how long they had it on before Ernest went through.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Duh. That must be it. Stupid me.
But won't the Gate shut down on its own before those 38 minutes are up if there isn't something going through it? Did the team throw a sounding line of some sort through the hole first, and forget it there for all those 38 minutes? Why wasn't it visible on the film, then?
OTOH, perhaps the Gate just doesn't stay open all that long when it receives an insufficient initial charge (this appeared to be a problem in the very same episode, with the lighting-powered return trip). Keeping it "forcibly" open with an extended hand or an airhose won't help, then. It may have been opened just before Ernest entered, but then shut down after just a few minutes, while the hose still was supposed to be holding it open.
It's still a bit odd. If this was the first time they managed to open the Gate, how did they find a DIVING SUIT (of all things) in 38 minutes? If this was the second or later activation, how did they dare attempt a longer activation on a manned mission than on any previous unmanned test? Or didn't they realize there was a time factor involved, even though they could see the thing was constantly consuming lots and lots of electricity (which must have been a scarcer resource for the research team than for the later SGC)?
Hmh. Sorry about ranting on an ages-old ep here. I'll still go and rewatch "100 Days" to see if the rope really extended across the wormhole. WITHOUT fast-forwarding. We got some seriously good stuff that season.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I've just been inspired to order season 3 on Amazon. I've got 1 and 2, and my lady friend bought me season 6 in an uberGenerous display of her acceptance of my geekiness. So I need to get 3, 4 and 5 to fill in the gaps.
I wondered for a long time why they would dress Ernest in a diving suit. They knew that it was a portal of some kind because of the inscriptions they had translated, but why a diving suit? Then I realized that they probably thought the event horizon was water. Everyone else seems to. Where they got the suit is anyone's guess. Though it's entirely possible that they activated it once, shut it down, got the suit, then redialed the same address to send Ernest through.
Keep in mind too, they weren't *trying* to keep the Gate open with the hose. And they would have had no clue about a time limit. If everything happened on the first opening of the Gate (which from a scientific point of view seems unlikely), it's possible they were tinkering around with it, throwing bits of paper, peeing, tossing stray kittens or something through it to see what would happen. That could have easily eaten up 37 and a half minutes before Ernest stepped through.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Y'know, it'd be real easy to figure out the event horizon wasn't actually water...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, every primitive society they come across seems to describe it as water. "The Great Wave". "The Circle of Standing Water". Drawings showing waves in the middle of the ring. I don't think anyone walked up and took a gulp of it or anything...
Or maybe they just werent' sure that he'd be able to breathe wherever it transported him to, so they put him in the only thing they had that could provide oxygen...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yeah, For all they knew, it was just a puddle of goop that didn't seem to have a measurable end - you can stick you arm in, but nothing would happen until you're actually in there completely.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, the question still remains, how did Ernest come out the other side, when his air hose never fully entered the wormhole?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Magic.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I rather think the research team thought the device would take their test pilot to outer space. Or some similarly hostile environment, at any rate. A diving suit would have been the state of the art EVA gear of the time, no matter what the environment. (Yeah, I know they tested aviator pressure suits in the 1930s already - but those would be even more difficult to find than diving suits.)
Here's a possibility: Ernest removed his helmet by some sort of an accident (panic attack?) while in the wormhole. He and his suit then made it through, the helmet and the attached hose did not. Then the wormhole shut down due to insufficient power (or the Gate mechanism decided the helmet was just leftovers, contaminants, whatever, not a traveler), and the helmet and the stretch of hose that was inside were annihilated. We never did see the helmet in the Library, now did we?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Um. Yah. They used it to attract the lighting.
At least that's what I remember.
Maybe when Ernest got to the other side, whatever motion he made backed the hose into the event horizon, vaporizing part of it and severing the connection. Though, that would imply that Ernest made it to the other side before the entire hose had gone through.
I don't know... I'd rather just believe that the Gate can distinguish between large, singular objects and trailing objects.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Remind me then never to let a cat through the gate, then.
Mark
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Poor Schroedenger...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Perhaps it's Season 1 I should have been rewatching...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hey, I didn't build the things, I just use them.
Though, come to think of it, wouldn't that be the ultimate modeling job? Building a Stargate in your back yard. Non-functional of course. You'd be the neighborhood uberGeek. It'd be awesome.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Perhaps some sort of odd traction in the wormhole caused the (shoddily manufactured?) hose to pop loose from the helmet. Then the suit and Ernest would have become a separate object from the hose and made it through.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.:
BTW, have we seen any other instances of someone backing out of an open gate before they go all the way through? I know O'Neill held a gate open with a pistol before, but that was on the receiving end.
B.J. [/QB]
In the movie - Daniel sticks his head in and we see that cool effect - pulls it out again - then goes fully through.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Not his head; just his hands. In "The Enemy Within", Teal'c and Kawalsky fight in front of an open wormhole, and they dip in and out of it several times before O'Neil closes the gate with Kawalsky's head partially inside. Slice!
In
Mark
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I remain an advocate of dumb gates. I prefer to think of the gates as mysteriously complex and powerful, but ultimately having very limited knowledge about what it is they are passing through them and which direction. Because deciding what is and isn't a complete object would clearly be such a messy problem. Not to mention a profoundly boring story consideration. (See above: my inanely rambling scenarios.) I mean, have you actually read the convoluted rationalizations above about what may have happened to Ernest's airhose? Can't we just not go there. Can't it just be magic and perhaps inexplicable. I really don't want 'transporter accident' eps for Stargate.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I think for the movie scene with ol' Danny boy, he sticks his hand in and brings it out. Since his whole body didn't step in yet his hand didn't reappear on the other side. When he sticks his face in, it appears normal for a second, he opens his eyes and it warp stretches forward. Although I seem to recall a time or two when someone already fully into the gate grabbed another person on the other side.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
They're pretty consistent about the one-way nature of the gate. However, there may be an instance in a dream where someone reaached out from a wormhole event horizon to grab someone else. Maybe that episode where Daniel got infected with Machello's little slugs?
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