Ellen Tigh the only major character to bite the bullet -- or does Hera's adopted mother count?
Pegasus. Beautiful entry. Beautiful death.
I really don't know what more to say about this episode. Bah, producers, for not showing the raptors use their kick ass side-mounted missile launchers? Excellent atmospheric entry/launch manuever?
Q: It appears Roslin is once again the President. Er. How?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, she took physical possession of the office during a crisis. We'll see what happens once things calm down a little.
Posted by Trimm (Member # 865) on :
So I understand why they got rid of the Pegasus, but DAMN I was hoping they'd keep it around. Guess that was the price they had to pay.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I mourn the loss of the Pegasus. But at least she went in some form of glorious blaze (saving the day), unlike the last one (which got everyone out of the mess her CO created in the first place). We knew it was gonna happen - the show is called Battlestar GALACTICA, after all.
Mark
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh, PS - we saw the flight pods retract before Galactica made her final in-episode jump. And in reviewing the 2nd season episodes, we saw pods extending in "Scattered."
I think jumping the Galactical has to be the single craziest thing I've ever seen on a TV show. Mostly I was glad they had it dropping like a rock rather than swooping down to save the day. Though I was oddly reminded of the sperm whale in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Did anyone spot a bowl of petunias?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Actually I thought they were going to land the ship, but that jump was the coolest thing I've ever seen.
Too bad about Pegasus, she's was damn fine ship. A least she took out two basestars when she bit the dust. That oughta teach those toasters.
Bad news is that Hera is in the hands of the cylons now and Casey was a fake.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I agree, seeing Galactica plummeting through the atmosphere and then jumping out at the last second was the single craziest thing I have ever seen. Go Adama!
I'm certainly sorry to see Pegasus go, but I think that was the writers' intent... keep the ship around so we're actually emotionally invested in it, and then blow it to pieces. It's not like we actually cared what happened to it in the original.
I also must give kudos to the writers for the timing of the clich�s (I deliberately have avoided any and all spoilers for the show)... I kept waiting and waiting for Pegasus to swoop in and save the day, and it didn't happen. Then Adama realized the fight was over, and pretty much gave up! Then there was that final pull-back, and I actually started to believe that they might blow up Galactica and dump their lead character, when naturally, Pegasus came swooping in. They got me, I'm happy to say.
I loved Roslin's reaction to the news that Maya and Hera probably didn't make it off-planet. Great philosophy, there.
One thing that I didn't get at all was Saul and Ellen. Maybe I'm just dense, but I didn't even realize at all that he'd killed her until Snay mentioned it. It makes sense after the fact, given his conversation with Anders before that scene, especially. But it didn't seem obvious (to me) that she'd just died there.
A couple of technical notes:
I really wish that they'd do a new "combat landings" effects shot; they're still re-using the same one from the miniseries every damn time. It's getting way too easy to spot.
I also wonder a bit about the way that the Galactica (and all the other ships) jumped out while in the atmosphere. Wouldn't a gigantic ship like that suddenly disappearing create a huge vacuum that would suck in a lot of air from surrounding areas? 'Twould have been cool to see debris and stuff suddenly sucked upwards by the enormous gusts of wind created by the jumping-out. Ah, well.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Oh yeah, my other question: where the hell did Baltar and Caprica Six go? Did they go with the fleet, or leave with the Cylons?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Leave with the cylons since I think if they'd gone with the fleet, they probably would have both been hung.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:I also wonder a bit about the way that the Galactica (and all the other ships) jumped out while in the atmosphere. Wouldn't a gigantic ship like that suddenly disappearing create a huge vacuum that would suck in a lot of air from surrounding areas? 'Twould have been cool to see debris and stuff suddenly sucked upwards by the enormous gusts of wind created by the jumping-out. Ah, well.
I thought that was exactly what happened. Didn't you notice the implosion?
[ October 21, 2006, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yeah, I saw the air rushing in, but I thought there'd be a bigger gust on the ground. Oh well.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I thought it was some cool CGI for the battle, except....I'm getting a little tired of the "Let's show how desperate we are, prepare for ramming speed" shtick. How many times is this tactic going to be used? I mean, come on, is ALL of sci-fi going Samurai or what?
SOooo.....I'm trying to list the instances I remember of starships ramming one another:
1. Decker rams the shuttlecraft down the planet killer's maw. French-fried Decker
2. Kirk rams the Constellation down the planet killer's maw but beams out in the nick of time.
3. IIRC, Riker prepared to ram a Borg cube in one TNG episode. But some other option opened at the last second.
4. Worf prepares to ram the Borg cube in First Contact before JLP drops in and rescues his "little" ship.
5. JLP rammed the Scimitar in Nemesis.
6. Lee Adama rams Peggy into the Cylon Basestar. He also gets bonus points and a powerup for the spare his starboard flight pod picked up on the second Basestar.
7. Sheridan rams the Whitestar into Z'ha'dum.
8. The Executor involuntarily rams DS2. Doesn't really count since it was unintentional, but I KNOW somebody will mention it.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
So what? It's a perfectly valid tactic for desperate situations. When your ship has no more effective weapons, you use the ship itself as a weapon.
(Also, you're thinking of Kamikaze, not Samurai.) Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: I thought it was some cool CGI for the battle, except....I'm getting a little tired of the "Let's show how desperate we are, prepare for ramming speed" shtick. How many times is this tactic going to be used? I mean, come on, is ALL of sci-fi going Samurai or what?
SOooo.....I'm trying to list the instances I remember of starships ramming one another:
1. Decker rams the shuttlecraft down the planet killer's maw. French-fried Decker
2. Kirk rams the Constellation down the planet killer's maw but beams out in the nick of time.
3. IIRC, Riker prepared to ram a Borg cube in one TNG episode. But some other option opened at the last second.
4. Worf prepares to ram the Borg cube in First Contact before JLP drops in and rescues his "little" ship.
5. JLP rammed the Scimitar in Nemesis.
6. Lee Adama rams Peggy into the Cylon Basestar. He also gets bonus points and a powerup for the spare his starboard flight pod picked up on the second Basestar.
7. Sheridan rams the Whitestar into Z'ha'dum.
8. The Executor involuntarily rams DS2. Doesn't really count since it was unintentional, but I KNOW somebody will mention it.
Well an A-wing rammed into the bridge of the Executor, that was kind of intentional.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Yes, but props to Battlestar for actually following through, versus Trek's many empty promises.
Furthermore, the jumping the ship into atmosphere to launch fighters and then jumping out again is one of the coolest things I have ever seen depicted on the screen. And yes, the ship left behind a vacuum that was evidenced by not only the clouds rushing inwards, but also the loud sonic boom-like clap of thunder.
I too, felt that god, maybe just maybe RDM would be ballsy enough to actually kill off the main character and title ship, which any other critiques of the show one might have, holy shit is that an impressive accomplishment.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Janeway rammer Voyager into the timeship in "Year of Hell".
So, out of all the hundreds of hours of sci-fi TV and movies, we have a whopping eight examples of starship-ramming? Wow. It's like they never quit, isn't it?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
The A-Wing slamming into Executor wasn't intentional. The A-Wing was spiraling out of control and the pilot seemed to be injured -- he was, you'll recall, screaming with his eyes shut.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
So long, Peggy, we barely knew ye.
I knew Casey had to be the Cylons screwing with Starbuck's mind. She was too old, and they kept emphasizing the fact that Hera was the first.
But Holy Crap! My jaw was hanging open through that whole sequence. I'm glad they showed it falling like a brick through the atmosphere, making this a whole lot different (and more realistic) than Star Trek or Star Wars. I was also glad to see HotDog is still around, and his comment "This is going to be interesting." has got to be a *huge* understatement! Going full speed into an airstream 90 degrees to your direction of travel, I'm suprised that nobody got their wings ripped off.
They also seem to have established that you can't jump when you're immediately next to another physical object. The ships had to get off the ground to jump, and the Raptors had to clear Pegasus before they could jump. Otherwise, I'd have just jumped inside the flight pod. It a restriction, but I like the fact that they're limited somehow.
Re: NBC - Yeah, it seems that the unions can't deal with a technology change. Yet again. Just as long as I get my weekly Galactica fix, I'm happy.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Oh, and about Tighclops - why couldn't they just keep Ellen locked up for a while? Or at least keep someone with her at all times? She can't be *that* big a security risk. I image Tighclops is going to be crawling back inside the bottle for a while.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
"She can't be *that* big a security risk."
Maybe you missed the part where if Sgt. Hadrian hadn't been on her game, Sharon Mk. II woulda been killed, no launch keys would've been had, and the whole mission would've failed because of Ellen ... ?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Damn. Saul got it bad this episode. I actually had a lump in my throat when his buddy Adama got cheered on by the crowd, while he was shoved aside. I sincerely doubt Tigh will shave of his beard and get in his uniform quite as quickly as Bill did.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah I felt bad for him, especially since he played a big part in the resistance.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Exodus Part II has to be the very best episode of BSG so far. It was simply fantastic!
They actually managed to make me like Ellen when she was telling Saul how she'd do anything for him, I even felt a little tear well up. Up until then I'd always thought she was a slut after any meat she could lay her hands on, but that scene showed she was more than that. And then she died. I didn't think Saul had to kill her, actually. As long as he'd kept her with him until they escape the planet she wouldn't have been any more trouble, and then she could've been locked up.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I didn't exactly feel sorry for Ellen. Notice that she told the story as if she was the one who convinced the Cylons to release him, when Cavil specifically told her that they'd already decided to release him when she came to them. She was trying to cover her ass, and I think Saul knew it. He figured that the Cylons wouldn't have released him just because of her.
Also, Ellen knew exactly what she was doing. She'd been there for the discussion, she knew that it was a very important meeting (since it was people from the Galactica). She just wasn't thinking clearly, and was willing to betray any chance of getting everyone away from the Cylons on the slim hope that the Cylons would stay true to their word and leave Saul alone as the resistance continued.
However, I'm still surprised at the decision to kill her. Considering all the stuff going on, and even considering the high stakes, a summary execution seems extreme.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I think the point was that if he didn't do it, someone else would, and they wouldn't be so nice about it.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
To me,.the most interesting part about Ellen's "execution" is the slightest glimmer that she knew EXACTLY what was in that cup and drank it without Tigh having to say a word. Material like this really doesn't come around often, especially when it's (under)played to tastefully.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Noted similarity with Original BSG. Pegasus takes on (at least) two Cylon Basestars before being destroyed (well, presumably destroyed in the original).
Now we definitely have Baltar (and Lucifer, I mean, Six), with the Cylons following the fleet. At least for a while.
My step-son did bring up an interesting point when we watched the episode again. Why worry if Biers sets off the nuke? New Caprica had been evacuated. No one was around (as far as Baltar knew). Who cares if she set it off?
There's no way Ellen could have lived. Anders even said if Tigh didn't do it, he would. And, with next week's episode highlights, it's clear many more collaborators are about to die.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Back to the ramming thing briefly.
In B5 there were a lot of rammings. I think the coolest aborted rammings were Sinclair's run on the Minbari flagship in his StarFury and Sheridan's attempt to ram the last Earth defense satellite with the Agamemnon.
--Jonah
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
Theory: Tigh becomes the next President.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Does anyone recall what the colonial election cycle was? Zarek is in line for the presidency right now, and it's only been 16 months since the last election. If they're on a two year cycle, another might be close, but it may take a while. Unless of course they decide to restructure their entire government, which would really make more sense than hanging on to the twelve dead colonies...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
It's probably a four year cycle, although I don't think it has ever been mentioned -- possibly in "Epiphanies", but I don't remember off-hand.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Why is it always a four-year cycle, though? Why not three or five or six?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: 7. Sheridan rams the Whitestar into Z'ha'dum.
Sorta (the nuke was more the point than the ramming). There are many other examples in B5 though, the one in Severed Dreams, the attempt in Endgame, and the one in In The Beginning.
Peregrinus: Didn't read up to your point yet, but Sinclair's is a good one Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
For a moment there I thought we were going to see the Pegasus re-named the Galactica-A. . . But then they began that long pull-out shot, and it became obvious what was about to happen.
So Hera's now being dissected, or worshipped, by the Cylons, or both. Funny thing, I was more relieved about Casey being OK. I'm still going to go check on my daughter now, though, before I turn in.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I want one of the Sharons to claim Hera as her own, and more Cylon squabbling to result.
One of my favourite rammings that I neglected to mention in my last post: "The Search, Part 1". When the Defiant opens up with its pulse phasers on the formation of Jem'Hadar bugships and ploughs through the last one as it's exploding. My chin was on the floor the first time I saw that, and I still get a lump in my... er... throat just thinking about it.
But back to nuBSG. I'm hoping now we can get Apollo back in a Viper. I want Tigh to lose his right leg below the knee and truly Ahab out on us. I want Leoben to die many, many more times, each one more painful than the last. And I wonder how many base ships the Cylons have. How does losing a couple affect them? And I still want an active old-skool Centurion to show up -- with the right sound effects and everything.
--Jonah
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
On that last note, I gather (perhaps erroneously) that we could be seeing some, er, basestar-based action, so I'm pinning my hopes on that. Perhaps a skinjob rec-room staffed by Centurion waiters.
Leoben: "One Colonial Warrior please." Cylon: (you'll have to imagine the voice) - COLONIAL WARRIOR - DANGER - PREPARE TO ATTACK - Leoben: "No! It's a cocktail, you overgrown toaster! ... oops." D'anna: "I think you've been hanging around Starbuck too long. For that, you can change Hera's nappies for the next three months."
It'll be interesting to see how many of the cast go back to their old jobs. Helo and Dee have been acting as effective Execs of two Basestars for more than a year, I can't see them going back to being Raptor GiB and Ops Gofer, respectively. Adama seems to like wearing two hats as Fleet commander and Galactica's Commander so I can't see the need for Lee to stay a Commander too, unless it's re-instated as CAG - which leaves Starbuck and Kat hanging. Then there're Gaeta and Tigh to consider too.
Plus, what about Cally and the baby? Tyrol'll take his old job back, but is a Battlestar a suitable place to raise a child? That said, it's the safest place in the RTF, if Galactica goes all the other ships won't last long.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Speaking of Cylons dying many more times, with each time being more painful than the last; it seems that's the case with Cylon Resurrection. I think it was last episode in the de-breifing where the Brother Cavell (?) was telling about being left for dead by the resistance at the killing field. After describing how long it took him to die, he commneted about how painful it was this time, like a white light (or white hot poker or something).
Apparently Cylon resurrection gets more painful with each time. Cavell was saying it is starting to be no longer worth it. Maybe at some point they will reach their limit and can't come back any longer?
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
It seemed very odd that the Cylons only had two Basestars posted in orbit of New Caprica, when I'd always assumed they had dozens of them. Apparently in future episodes we'll be finding out what's tying up the rest of the Cylon fleet. I wonder if this means the RTF isn't the only remnant of human civilisation?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:And I still want an active old-skool Centurion to show up -- with the right sound effects and everything.
I think I'd like to see that too at some point, though I wonder if it would be more interesting if they find an old Pre-war cylon that's still loyal the the colonies.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That would be cool - but I'd hate to see an old-style Cylon, if that meant we saw a dude in a black leotard with plastic armor tied onto him. The old style seriously does not fit in with the new anymore.
Mark
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I'm sure they can do a lot better with prosthetics these days.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I'd be happy to just hear them say "By your command" again.
Have we ever heard them use a distance unit before? I can't remember any. It's interesting that when the Galactica jumps into the atmosphere, Helo says "altitude 99,000", but conveniently leaves off a unit (unless I heard wrong). I would assume they're using feet, but you never know.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: It'll be interesting to see how many of the cast go back to their old jobs. Helo and Dee have been acting as effective Execs of two Basestars for more than a year, I can't see them going back to being Raptor GiB and Ops Gofer, respectively. Adama seems to like wearing two hats as Fleet commander and Galactica's Commander so I can't see the need for Lee to stay a Commander too, unless it's re-instated as CAG - which leaves Starbuck and Kat hanging. Then there're Gaeta and Tigh to consider too.
My guess... Lee will be second-in-command because Tigh's going to sink into a deep depression and fall way deep into the bottle.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Lee as XO makes no sense in military parlance, as you can't have family members as part of any ship or base's top chain of command. With D and H hanging around, if Tigh were incapacitated (though the previews suggest otherwise), there are a few choices for XO beyond your own son.
What I'd like to see is the gang find, or adapt another smaller ship to be used on missions where the Galactica is too big to go. They supposedly have a fandom warship design in the fleet; I say build that up and give our heroes more options to get into dark, grim trouble.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Exactly which part of space do you think is too small for Galactica to fit into?
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Innerspace.
I'd just like to state for the record that Galactica jumping into atmo was about the coolest thing, evar!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I already said that!
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Lee as XO makes no sense in military parlance, as you can't have family members as part of any ship or base's top chain of command. With D and H hanging around, if Tigh were incapacitated (though the previews suggest otherwise), there are a few choices for XO beyond your own son.
Under normal circumstances that would make sense. But these aren't normal circumstances. 12, no, 13 worlds now have been devestated and/or overran by the enemy and all of humanity (from their point of view) are huddled for survivle in a rag-tag fleet.
No home port. No base. No top brass. It's a different ballgame.
Plus, this is television. When has any TV series stuck true with military parlance and protocol for the entire run?
quote: What I'd like to see is the gang find, or adapt another smaller ship to be used on missions where the Galactica is too big to go. They supposedly have a fandom warship design in the fleet; I say build that up and give our heroes more options to get into dark, grim trouble.
Mark
I agree. I'd love to see some of these ships in the fleet converted to more "military" ships and not civillian vessels. A fleet like this would need more military support than one battlestar and fighters.
Something else I was wondering today. Where are they getting their food? Do they have enough space on the agro ships to grow enough to feed everyone? We've not seen many episodes dealing with food shorages or other supply issues. This is something we should see from time to time. I did love the tylium mining episode from the first season. We should have more episodes like that from time to time.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Look, they're not going to start playing "rotating XOs." I think Adama is convinced that Tigh is going to return to his post as XO, and he's not going to demote Tigh to a lesser post on the ship. I think Helo will remain as XO -- for the sake of consistancy for the crew -- until Tigh is ready to resume his post.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: When has any TV series stuck true with military parlance and protocol for the entire run?
The Battlestar Galactica miniseries.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
SG-1's pretty good with it. They have very strong ties with the USAF and have an active officer on staff as a military technical advisor.
Mark
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Yeah, that was very cool when they got General Ryan and General Jumper to be on the show when they were the Air Force Chief of Staff.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Not, of course, that one single SG-1 fan knew who these people were prior to their (much-advertised) cameos, let alone what they look like.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I knew what Ryan looked like before, and I actually (briefly) met Jumper once before his cameo. And I'm not even in the Air Force!
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