quote:

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Originally posted by Harry:
Y'know, for a few moments there, with the 3 days of dreaming and the Regen ship nearby, I thought Baltar had regenerated on that Basestar...

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No, that's NEXT week.

I noticed the new Resurrection Ship, too. I also noticed that when Cylon Xena (btw: that was one hot costume!) mentioned the discussion of their vote, there were 3 in favor, and 3 against, with 1 undecided. That makes only 7 models, not 12. What's up with that?
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
The seven we've seen so far. Maybe the other five models aren't represented there, but busy elsewhere?

I want Patrick McNee!!

--Jonah
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
LOVED the dress.

Ahem.

I think making Baltar a Cylon destroys the credibility/integrity of these last few episodes, as well as the dramatic impact of the Pilot.

Baltar's role was to be a Judas, someone betraying his own kind. To make him a Cylon (albeit a sleeper agent) would destroy that role.

Further, the whole scenes of the Cylon cabal threatening to kill Baltar, and even the possible exictuion hinted at in this episode wouldn't make sense if he were a Cylon.

And why would/should the Cylons continue the charade now? There is no need.

I did love the eye in the interior of the ship. At first glance, with the lights above and below the red stobe, it almost looked like the original Cylons from TOS and the reflective chrome. I thought it was a big original Cylon face at first.

The general amnesty was a good move, not something I would have done. It really was the only logical solution, with the only other choices being a clandesting Star Chamber approach or a public circus.

I did like Anders and Tyrol not liking to swallow what they were doing. Too bad they didn't think about it sooner. Gaeta's example illustrates why the secret circle wasn't the best idea either. If the defendants aren't allowed to defend themselves, then innocents will die as well as the guilty. Additionally, some guilty ones might go free. Further, the secret circle would have been open to corruption or turning the trials into their own witch-hunt.

From the previews I didn't expect Tigh to be part of the group. That was a twist.

I was reading the forum over at Cylon Alliance and all the anti-Moore posters there really going off about the anti-Bush/anti-American overtones to these shows. Apparently they didn't see the similarities to Vichy France and the Resistance in WWII.

Moving on...

Kara needs therapy. Lots of therapy. So does most of the fleet.

Interesting to see the survior count again. What was it at the end of last season? We're at 41K now.

5 Cylon basestars and 1 resurrection ship, Is that the entire fleet?

Where are the rest of the models? Why aren't they represented in the basestar? Are their 12 models? Who really did leave the note for Adama? Boomer?

Scenes from next week: The Cylons have decided that Earth is to be their new home? What happened with Caprica?
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
The count at the beginning of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" was 49,550. The population of New Caprica City was given as 39,192 at the end of the same episode. (source) But the city population doesn't include the people left up manning the ships in orbit. And don't forget the people killed on the 3+ ships destroyed when Cloud 9 got nuked. The count in "Collaborators" was 41,435 (and now minus Jammer and probably a few others).

Also: The Cylons abandoned Caprica, remember? They decided to start finding their own path rather than following the Humans. Except that plan seems like it's about to be dropped...
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Yeah, seeing Jammer spaced was really tough. It's not like he was a random face they created for the episode - he was there from the beginning! So, you think what he was saying behind the glass was "Please don't kill off my character!" to the writers?

I was also wondering where the other 5 models are. So if the Cylons *do* actually have a plan, does it include random subroutines? I'm not seeing any cohesive plan.

Did they say if Zarek will still become (or demoted to) VP? I was actually suprised that he'd give up the Presidency so easily. Or maybe he thinks he can get more done from behind the scenes, since not as many people are watching....
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
I'm also curious as to what has the Cylon's resources tied up so tightly - Six said that they were maxed out during the occupation of New Caprica (and if I remember right, I think Moore has said that season 3 will look into what the Cylons are up to in other areas besides dealing with the fleet) and it seems odd that the Cylons are suddenly feeling the pinch, when they've always had ships, resources and materials to spare before.

Could this be tied up with the 5 other Cylon models? Number 3 did say that consensus used to be easy, but was getting harder, presumably as each model started to form its own opinions about the best course of action. Could there be a Cylon civil war happening, with five models against seven?

As for Zarek I was surprised that he was so okay with the idea of not being able to remain president without the support of the military. Come to that I was surprised that Roslin was ok with the idea too, especially after her taking a stand in season 2 against what was essentially a military coup against the legitimately serving president. It just struck me as odd that now they were both sitting there acknowledging that the office of the president didn't mean much without Galactica's guns to back it up.

As for Zarek becoming VP, Roslin offered him the post before she found out about the secret trials and executions...I wouldn't be surprised if she took the offer off the table once she was in office.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
I think he's politically astute enough to know that Laura will get the popular vote given the enevitable backlash against all who were in the Baltar administration. Bottom line it's his best chance to retain some influence, which is his main motivation. I think he said as much in the episode.
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
I don't know if the backlash would hit Zarek quite as badly as all that - throughout all we saw of the Baltar administration during the occupation, Zarek never appeared to co-operate with the Cylons and was in fact put on the death list with Laura Roslin. If anything, he might be seen by the people of the fleet as the one honest man in the whole administration, who stood up to Baltar and the Cylons. Certainly he did enough for Roslin to be impressed with his courage...so I think he might have escaped the worst excesses of any backlash.

It's still not clear what capacity he appeared in at Laura's speech about amnesty - was he there as the newly nominated vice president, or as outgoing president? I still think Roslin would think twice about nominating him after finding out about the circle - and Adama would have a problem with him being one heartbeat away from the presidency.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Perhaps not, either way he knows Adama won't play ball while he's in the big chair.

For Laura's part I think she'd do well to keep her "enemy" close. As for the possibility that Zarek might have her offed, I doubt it, mostly for the exact same reason that he's stepping down (Adama) also the Vice Presidency gives him enough influence to effect the changes that he thinks are for the best.
That is assuming of course the offer is still open after they found out about his sanctioned executions. From a story point of view, I can't think of any existing character better suited to the roll and there is some wisdom in having a vice president that has an opposing point of view. Roslin is intellegent enough to know that the last thing she needs is a yes man.
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Of course, he could hold the fact that she tried to steal the previous election over her. It's not as though her hands are completely clean, either. She didn't even mention the secret trials and executions in her speech, did she?
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
I would think that Adama would still have a problem with Roslin naming Zarek as her VP candidate - if he's not willing to work with him as president, he's not going to want to take the chance on him getting back into the big chair, now is he? After all a single lucky shot from a Cylon raider punching a hole in one of the windows on Colonial One and it's bye bye President Roslin, hello President Zarek...if Laura does insist on following up on her offer to Tom and making him veep, it will be interesting to see how it affects her relationship with Adama.
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
Anyone see the rift that is forming between Tigh and Adama? I think Tigh is growing jealous of Bill. To a certain extent he is justified considering all that he went through as resistance leader and then returning to Galactica only to have everyone cheer only for Adama.
 

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
If Roslin actually died, SOMEONE would have to be president. Given enough time, Zarek will probably be a better choice than some, from Adama's perspective.
 

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Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
Just curious, do we know if the fleet has munitions production capability? I don't know if Peggy was able to resupply the Gal, but after the last battle, I'd think that they should be running low on ammo.

As for the Cylon models, maybe the ones we haven't seen are low production models or specialty units.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
The beast did indeed help the bucket through the latter half of the second season. And despite being undermanned, I'm sure they transferred more than just Dualla in the year interm we never saw.

Mark
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
The Galactica was shown to have munitions production facilities in Epiphanies, when someone sabotaged some shells for the Vipers. I assume they will have similar facilities for the larger munitions used by the Galactica's guns. What the Pegasus had that the Galactica lacks is Viper production facilities - so they're back to a dwindling stock of fighters with no source of new ones. Bullets though, those they can do.

It's an interesting thought that there might be a rift developing between Tigh and Adama: as you say MNW, it's a bit of a slap in the face to go through everything Tigh did only to have someone else get all the recognition. Add to that he might resent Adama's appointing Helo to the XO position...could be plenty of opportunities for Tigh to start to get resentful.

Regarding the Cylon models, I know comments made by Ron Moore in interviews have made the point moot but I used to wonder if Six meant all types of Cylon when she said in the miniseries that there are 12 models. If so, I thought we might be up to the 12 already - the seven known models of human cylons, the older model centurions, the new ones, raiders, heavy raiders and basestars. However as I say, comments made by RDM seem to indicate that the 12 models are the human looking variety. I just wonder if there is something to the fact that seven have been seen implementing the Cylon "plan" so far - just enough as would be needed to carry a majority in a group of 12. Maybe there was a 6/6 split in the models over whether or not to attack the colonies, and one of the models changed sides, making it 7/5?
 

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Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
Odd question - did the launch tube look shorter than usual, or am I misremembering? I talking about the scene where they spaced Jammer versus the previous episode when Hotdog launched.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

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The Galactica was shown to have munitions production facilities in Epiphanies, when someone sabotaged some shells for the Vipers. I assume they will have similar facilities for the larger munitions used by the Galactica's guns. What the Pegasus had that the Galactica lacks is Viper production facilities - so they're back to a dwindling stock of fighters with no source of new ones. Bullets though, those they can do.

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Not entirely. Apollo left all of his Vipers guarding the fleet, so technically Galactica probably now has more Mk VII's than it has Mk II's.
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
Yeah, but what they have now is pretty much it - unless they can set up Viper production facilities in one of the ships of the fleet, their stock is only going to go down from now on. As you say though, with the entire Pegasus fighter compliment aboard it should at least mean they have some spare now, as well as a full crew for the first time in the series. They might even close the gift shop and put the other flight pod into operation!
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
This has been discussed on other boards - and really, that's what they ought to be doing. It's not like the starboard flight pod is doing anything right now - the CGI of Galactica during the last battle actually still shows the hole in the museum window put there by that exploding Cylon raider!

Mark
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
Did you notice the burn marks on Galactica from its atmosphric drop? Good Continuity.
 

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Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
Not only burn marks but bloody great holes from missile impacts...it's very refreshing to have a series where the main ship isn't restored to pristine condition at the start of every episode (step forward, USS Voyager!) and there are consequences to be dealt with. How many times did we get that in 28 seasons of Trek?
 

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
I seem to recall DS9 getting one of its pylons blown off and being back to normal by the next ep...
 

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Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by FawnDoo:
Not only burn marks but bloody great holes from missile impacts...it's very refreshing to have a series where the main ship isn't restored to pristine condition at the start of every episode (step forward, USS Voyager!) and there are consequences to be dealt with. How many times did we get that in 28 seasons of Trek?

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