This finale was... Great, I guess. Tons of stuff happens, the great big Reset Button was pushed, people leave, and the setup for the next Christmas Special was unexpected. And yet, I was strangely underwhelmed. Producer Davies has gained a reputation of writing great IDEA episodes, but being unable on following through on his setups. Such is the case here... Everything we expected to happen, happened. There were surprises, there were twists and turns, I was satisfied, but when it was over there was a vaguely bad aftertaste.
Thoughts?
Mark
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Underwhelming is exactly what I said after watching it. I was expecting it, but the whole Big Reset Button (TM) was a bit obvious.
In fact, the only bits I liked were Doctor Dobby, the sound of manic laughter from the Master at the end (sort of a Flash Gordon ending I thought), and the Face of Boe.
Other then that it was all a bit medeocre, but I expected as much from last weeks episode, and the story followed as I had guessed it might (well, except for the very end).
Everybody had too much to do (except John Barrowman who was woefully underused in these last three episodes other than explaining why the Doctor left him behind), and too little time to do it (I may have to watch the longer cut at some stage, but I doubt that this will help much).
It just doesn't seem right that such a good season should end like this. Perhaps they brought the Master back too early, or were too keen to modernise him. Suffice to say, John Simm was good, but the petulant, cheesy Master who likes the Scissor Sisters and Rogue Traders didn't do it for me.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, come off it, the sequence where he boogies around his lair to the Scissor Sisters was brilliant. Perfect lyrics too.
If it's the real Titanic, then they have to bring Eccleston back for a Two Doctors Christmas special. It'd be better than the Kyliefest they're hinting at.
Martha will be back, it's obvious, they just want her out of the way for the Crimbo ep. And rumours suggest there may be a second Companion next year, which will obviously be the hunky Dr. Tom.
It's also obvious that the Mater influenced Mrs. Saxon to shoot him, knowing that presented him with more options than being banged up in the TARDIS. Whether it's her who then retrieves his ring, or Sinister Woman, well, we'll see. Did either have red painted fingernails? One positive: unusual method of regeneration could mean the return of Simm in the role.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Overall, good series. One thing I noticed is that all through they kept reinforcing the idea that the Doctor's interactions with times, people and places needn't be linear - the tie gag in "Smith & Jones," the Doctor being on Elizabeth I's shit-list for something HE hasn't done yet in "Shakespeare Code" and, for advanced students, the whole time-loop in "Blink."
From spoilers I knew that a baddie known as Mr. Saxcon would appear, and he might turn out to be the Master. But I also knew that the Derek Jacobi character would be seen to regenerate. But I couldn't put the two together - how could the Master be Jacobi (and whoever he turned into) when we all knew (or suspected) that the Master was already around and played by Simm? Schoolboy error! The Mater also travels through time and can dip in and out at will, as we subsequently saw. I'm so embarrassed. Somewhere, a Q is curling his lip in derision at me.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
One thing I don't get is, if the Master can build a machine that allows people to go back in time and murder their ancestors...why can't the Doctor build the same thing and go back and save his people? Killing people is just as much changing history as saving people. He's shown to be so upset and lonely when he's the only one left, but surely there lies an answer...a working paradox machine would surely allow him to end his loneliness.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think my sentiments - at this stage... echo Mark's. It was GREAT... but... yeah.
Was the wife of the Master the same as the girlfriend of Martha's father?? Just both blonde/bimboesque? Did anyone find the wife of the Master just weird... she sorta drifted around... is it because the Master had her under his spell?
Can someone explain how everyone chanting 'Doctor' turned him young and into an energy angel!?!
David Tennet's acting saves it.
Did anyone get a few David Tennet-esque mannerisms from John Simm at times?
While cute - I really don't like the FoB/CJH connection.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: It's also obvious that the Mater influenced Mrs. Saxon to shoot him, knowing that presented him with more options than being banged up in the TARDIS. Whether it's her who then retrieves his ring, or Sinister Woman, well, we'll see. Did either have red painted fingernails? One positive: unusual method of regeneration could mean the return of Simm in the role.
I kept a keen eye out for her fingernails when I watch Confidential, and she did have red nails, just like the person picking up the ring. Presumably the Master's essence or something is contained in there. I hope it does mean John Simm will be back.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
This season was great overall, the absolute highlight (of the entire series) being the John Smith arc.
The Master is growing on me. That song he played at the beginning was perfect, as lyrics and madness go. It's a bit of a shame we didnt see much of the actual Doctor in the last episode, but I guess it was counterbalanced by seeing a lot of Martha.
The ring looks like it has similar markings on it as the 'chameleon-watch'. So it's quite possible we'll see Simms again. Or at least the Master.
Now.. if that's the real Titanic.. than the TARDIS could be.. an.. iceberg?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Well, the Master did fix the chameleon circuit, supposedly.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Sinister Woman didn't have red nails, I checked on my DL'ed copy of "TSoD."
Others have also reported the rumour that the new Companion will be Dr. Milligan, and he'll be in the whole next series, while Martha will be in a few eps of Torchwood and then rejoin Who for the latter half of the season. I personally don't see any way in which they could have Drs. Who and Milligan join up without being totally contrived - all the people in the world, and the Doctor picks up this one guy that Martha met in an alternate future and kinda fancied?
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I could have sworn she had red nails, because that's what made me check if The Master's woman did as well.
Anyway, not looking forward to Milligan being in it if he is.. though the Doc does need a male companion for a change. All these attractive young ladies he brings home.. people will talk. If they really want to make things interesting they could give him a non-human companion, so we could learn about some other planet and not have to see Cardiff city centre for a few episodes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe they could bring back an old companion?? The Brigadier!!
Hang on sinister woman is from an earlier episode isn't she - trying to convince Martha's mum that the Doctor is bad? Sinister woman and Mrs. Saxon aren't the same are they? Mrs. Saxon looked to be in a perpetual daze - I'm guessing the Master put her under some sort of spell. Then there is also the floozy that Martha's father was going out with in the First episode of the season... she was blonde too - but she wasn't the same as Mrs. Saxon or Sinister woman was she?
The Titanic breaking THROUGH the Tardis... doesn't that open up a whole can of worms... cause now the TARDIS is no longer a self contained bigger on the inside/smaller on the outside type thing, or didn't they think of that?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I could only really see her hands in one shot of "TSoD," and her nails were unpainted (as were Lucy Saxon's in all the shots I checked from that ep - no copy of "TLotTL" to look at but given she'd started wearing red-strumpet-dresses instead of sensible PM's wife attire. . .). I don't know if she had painted nails in "42" as I don't have a copy. She's not the same as Trevor's floozy nor Mrs. Saxon. She's played by a former Hollyoaks actress I think. That's not to say that she couldn't be wearing nail-varnish by the time she decided to go rootling through barbecued Master though. The nail-varnish could just be there to highlight that it is a female person who retrieves the ring, I suspect.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention - Lucy Saxon does have red nail-varnish in this ep, I saw it on one of the BBC3 repeats.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yep. I think the implication is that it's Lucy. Whether or not we'll see her AS the Master (Mistress?) is up in the air. Frankly, I'd like to see more of John Simm, as the Master has been crispy before. Or, is the intent to make The Master like Number Two from The Prisoner - different every time?
Mark
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
John Simm was on Richard & Judy(a sort of topical talk show, like Opera, but more shambolic) and seemed open to the idea of returning, so it doesn't seem as though he's been given the impression that his character is dead.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I thought it was interesting the Master could "choose" to regenerate or not. At least that is how it was presented. Has that ever been mentioned before?
Speaking of regeneration choices, I've always operated under the assumption that the Time Lords can influence the body they regenerate into. This explains Ramana's wardrobe show style of regeneration. It works for me. LOL
Hmm.. Simms channeling Tennant? "Takes deep breath and slowly lets it out while pausing after a few words..." Noooooo, I don't think I noticed. LOL
I liked the part with the gun being a diversion. I kept wondering how UNIT and Torchwood would have been able to develop such a weapon without knowing anything about the Doctor to go on. That part was great.
Yes, how does thinking "Doctor" revive the Doctor to his youthful appearance and bestow godlike powers?
Interesting 3 parter. Not as good a story as Blink or Human Nature.
Was this the first 3 parter since the series was revived?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I thought it was interesting the Master could 'choose' to regenerate or not. At least that is how it was presented. Has that ever been mentioned before?"
Well, we know they can regenerate at will even when they're not dying. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that there's a conscious decision involved when they are dying.
Not to mention that the Master ran out of regenerations centuries ago, and has still had at least four bodies since then. Who knows what sort of state his regenerability is in?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Not to mention that the Master ran out of regenerations centuries ago, and has still had at least four bodies since then. Who knows what sort of state his regenerability is in?
The Master mentions in the episode that he was resurrected by the Time Lords to fight in the war. Presumably that meant they gave him a new body (at this point I'm tempted to add in an Orson Welles voice "...and new troops to command!" but I will try to restrain myself!) with a whole new set of regenerations.
I saw an interesting thing the other day when I was in Borders flicking through the Doctor Who encylopedia (not sure if it is new, but it seemed to be in the section where they display new books).
It's maybe just a minor plot point about the upcoming Christmas special (so take that as fair warning before you read on!), but they mention why the Titanic was able to breach the console room walls - because the Doctor forgot to reactivate the TARDIS defense fields. It's certainly possible that they were taken offline as he worked to restore the TARDIS to an operational state - the big reset button was pushed in the series 3 finale, but the TARDIS would still presumably have been stuck as a paradox machine and in need of a bit of TLC.
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
I take it that the American audience hasn't heard who the 'new' companion is going to be in the next season, then?
As for the hand with red fingernails, producer RTD has said in an interview that he had no specific character in mind when he wrote that final scene, and only put it in so that future writers/producers could bring The Master back. A shame, really; I was hoping that The Rani would be making a return in next year's finale.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I thought it was The Master's trophy wife who took the ring. Oh well.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
If they really want to make things interesting they could give him a non-human companion, so we could learn about some other planet and not have to see Cardiff city centre for a few episodes.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)