"There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi master who instructed me" - Obi-Wan, speaking to Luke Skywalker on Hoth. But wasn't he instructed by Qui-Gon?
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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
It seems that he was trained by Yoda, and then apprenticed to Jinn.
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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That's a good explanation although it would be reasonable for him to say that Yoda trained him even after Jinn's death in that these will be his first years as a knight and he will still likely be learning from the masters. This would be an especially acceptable stretch of the truth if Obi Wan is for soem reason trying to hide Qui Gon's existance from Luke. There has to be SOME reason he is never mentioned in eps 4-6 (other than the fact that the character hadn't been created yet, but we don't think about such things... )
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
Yeah, it might be interesting (and a good way to waste time) to think of theories of why Qui-Gonn wasn't mentioned. How about this. While on Anakins home planet (can't remember the name) Qui-Gonn had sex with Anakin's mother on the sly (this extremely explicit scene was omitted as George Lucas thought it might affect the films suitability for children). Now, the child he had fathered actually became, er.. , Han Solo. Although Obi Wan had not met Han Solo at the time he rescued Luke, his Jedi premonition told him not to mention this fact to Luke, fearing that Luke would tell Han. This turned out to be a prudent measure as Han's brash personality made him completely unsuitable to be allowed to train in the force. Although this knowledge died with Obi Wan in A New Hope, Anakins mother might still be alive ( although very old), and perhaps she will tell someone.
This theory would make Han Solo Luke and Leia's father's half-brother.
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Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
To explain why Han doesn't look quite as old as he should in ANH, his force powers didn't exhibit themselves in the normal manner, and instead, his ageing process is a bit slower than most humans.
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Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
Well, considering Han Solo is from Corellia, that wouldn't hold much water anyway. Maybe they next two episodes will have more of the Yoda Obi-Wan story. They seem to be decent friends in the original 3.
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Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
You guys are seriously goofy.
First, If you guys need a canon answer as to why Qui-Gon Jinn wasn't mentioned in episodes 4-6, take the easiest answer:
He didn't need to be. Think about it. What use is it for Yoda or Darth Vader to mention him? He was only training Anakin for a very, very short time.
There are also hints that Yoda did teach Obi-wan before Qui-Gon Jinn did in Episode 1. "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future" is your biggest clue.
------------------ "No children have ever meddled with the Republican Party and have lived to tell about it." Sideshow Bob
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
And Obi-Wan seems rather comfortable speaking to Yoda at the very end of TPM, with the latter speaking more as an acquaintance than an authority, in parts.
Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :
Luke Skywalker was a natural. Darth Vader (while pursuing him in the Trench, ep 4) says, "The Force is strong with this one."
That after only a day or two of training with Obi-wan.
Young Obi-wan, however, might not have had such fast learning ability. [I take it that Luke is a rare case, the Force is strong in his family.]
Obi-wan may have undergone years of basic Force training with Yoda, and then been entrusted to Qui-Gon for practical field experience. {perhaps when Yoda was promoted to the council?}
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I don't believe training had anything to do with it. Vader would've detected Luke's force-aura before his training too. They had never met, that's all. As you say, Luke IS the son of the mightiest Jedi of modern SW (referring to the midichlorien count), thereby inheriting more of the force than any other child-of-jedi.
Oh, and by the way, smart move of Amidala to hide Vader's only son on his own birth-planet. He must've smacked himself in the head when he found out. 'Course, maybe she knew he would never dare to return to Tatooine, maybe in fear of stumbling on his mom's grave.
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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
My explanation is that Yoda taught Obi-Wan the basics of the Force, how to move stuff mentally, the mind-trick, etc. But it was Qui-Gon that gave Obi-Wan the field training.
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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
I think vader would smack himeself on star wars when he saw obi-wan, his son, r2-d2 and c3p0 all on the same ship.
------------------ "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
ROTFLMAO! What if Vader had turned his head towards the window during his duel with Obi-Wan, catching a glimpse of his little protocol-droid leaving, the apple of his eye. SUDDENLY, thousands of memories flash through what's left of his brain and he instinctively presses himself against the blast-doors, sobbing and drooling! "Threepiooo, come baack!! We are one!!! *sniff*
Kenobi, nauseated by the sight, gives him a merciful saber-blow to the head and leaves, muttering... "Now that's what I call a psychological FUBR!"
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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Regarding Obi-Wan, where'd he get the name Ben from?
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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Maybe it's his middle name, or a nickname for "Obi-Wan," or just something he picked, or...
I always assumed Ben was his real name, and that "Obi-Wan" was some kind of... I dunno... Jedi appellation, or something. I mean, the Sith don't keep their names (who would be scared of Darth Palpatine or Darth Anakin?), so who says the Jedi do?
------------------ Harold: "You're missing the point!" Red: "Well, I don't like points." -The Red Green Show
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I still think there is a reason why Qui-Gon wasn't mentioned to Luke and why he didn't show up with the other 3 spirits at the end of "Jedi" (and the reason "the character didn't exist yet" doesn't count). I believe it has something to do with why Qui-Gon's body didn't disappear when he died. Supposedly, Qui-Gin will be back (as a spirit) in the next film and Lucas has said that the 'non-disappearance' will be explained.
As for Yoda being the one who trained Obi-Wan: Yoda will likely continue giving Obi-Wan instruction even thought he is now a night, and the theory of going through some sort of general training as a very young boy has merit. He was probably trained by Yoda and other Jedi in a 'intorduction course' before being apprenticed as a Padawan to Qui-Gon.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
About the disappearing thing, Obe wan disappeared in ANH, I can't remember(hangs head in shame) but I think Yoda disappeared, but apart from that we don't see any other Jedi disappear. Even if we discount the Dark Jedi, who don't seem to disappear, I don't think it should be regarded as anomalous that Qui-Gonn doesn't disappear when he dies.
I think it has something to do with being ready to rejoin the force. When Obe Wan died he turned off his sabre and closed his eyes, ready to die. Yoda died naturally so one would expect him to disappear, but Qui-Gonn was clearly caught by surprise when he died.
------------------ "Try not. Do. Or Do not. There is no try." -Yoda, Jedi Master.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes, Yoda disappeared. Of course, since he and Obi-Wan are really the only Jedi we've seen die (until Qui-Gon), it doesn't mean much to say they're the only ones who disappeared. Perhaps it has something to do w/ being a Jedi Master, and Qui-Gon didn't go since he was just a knight. He was just a knight, wasn't he? It's hard to tell, since Obi-Wan told him he could be on the council if he didn't keep opposing them (which would suggest he's at the same level as them).
Also, we don't know if Palpatine or Vader disappeared. We didn't see Vader disappear, but he may not have completely died 'til he was off screen. And Luke may just have been burning his suit/robot parts. After all, he did show up as a "Force ghost" w/ Yoda and Obi-Wan at the end.
------------------ Harold: "You're missing the point!" Red: "Well, I don't like points." -The Red Green Show
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Qui-Gon was a master, I think...either way, Darth Vader seemed surprised when Obi-Wan disappeared in ANH.
------------------ Frank's Home Page John Flansburgh: "This song is so old that it's actually featured on our brand new record." John Linnell: "It's one of those year 2000 problems."
The fact that Vader didn't seem to know about the Jedi "becoming one with the Force" makes me think that something deeper is going on here. I think Qui-Gon did something on purpose regarding his death...
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
Like what?
------------------ "Try not. Do. Or Do not. There is no try." -Yoda, Jedi Master.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I have a better question than all of this: why the heck did Qui-Gon die!? He had a hole in his abdomen the width of a lightsabre (however large that may be), plus a little more to account for the fact that Maul couldn't have pulled it straight out. The hole didn't pass through any vital organs, nor would he have bled to death, as the wound would have been cauterized, like Luke's arm was. So what killed him? I think maybe he went into a Jedi healing trance or something, and wasn't really dead when we thought he was. Then, when his body determined that he couldn't be healed, he passed on voluntarily without regaining consiousness.
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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
How do you know that no vital organs were hit, though?
------------------ Frank's Home Page John Flansburgh: "This song is so old that it's actually featured on our brand new record." John Linnell: "It's one of those year 2000 problems."
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, the only immediately vital organs in your body are really the heart, lungs, and brain. Without any of them, you're dead inside of two minutes. If it'd pierced his heart, he probably would have died a lot sooner than he apparently did, baring some Jedi trick. I don't see why a small cauterized hole in your lung would cause that much interference, really. Besides, he seemed to be hit in the abdomen, where there ARE no immediately vital organs.
On second thought, I suppose the sabre could have pierced a major artery. He wouldn't bleed to death, but the cauterization would stop blood to a large portion of his body, and possibly cause some serious pressure to build up on his heart.
So ignore everything I just said.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Gurgeh: If I new that, Lucas would have had me wacked by now
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Actually, a hole the size of a lightsaber blade in your chest/abdomen, cauterized or not would probably kill you. If it didn't hit a lung or the heart, it could've hit the liver, spleen, intestines, any number of things in that area which aren't immeadiately fatal, and it defintely went through his spinal column (as I recall it pierced all the way) which is paralyzed for sure unless bacta can fix it (though it didn't do much for Luke's hand ).
The sabre-blade looks to be about three inches thick from a distance, but actually the real blade of the sabre isn't thicker than a few millimetres. You can see that by observing the cuts in objects in TESB for instance.
The non-transparent hue surrounding the blade is probably just rotating light/plasma/em-field that, although it probably is very hot, just serves some function in the intricate mechanics of the sabre, like stabalizing the blade itself.
If, however, one would move it around in the wound you'd work up a bigger hole!
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[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited May 11, 2000).]
Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :
Omega's theory sounds a bit iffy to me. I agree that the light sabre wound Qui-Gonn received wouldn't kill him for quite a while but I think it's more a matter of lack of realism on Lucas' part. Maybe he didn't want to have jets of blood spurting out of Qui-Gonn's heart, for the sake of the kiddies.
------------------ "Try not. Do. Or Do not. There is no try." -Yoda, Jedi Master.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I doubt a hole, cauterized or not, through your diaphram would make breathing very easy. You notice that Qui-Gon had trouble breathing and speaking. That's diaphram trouble baby
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
