Disclaimer: mental capacities of Yours Truly are somewhat diminished due to consumption of alcoholic beverages.
Palpatine is Anakin's father! The kid could've been conceived through Sidious' manipulation of the Force!
*notices several pairs of raised eyebrows*
Ok, so that sounded plain ridiculous. Seemed somewhat more plausible than this whole Immaculate Conception(tm) nonsense, though
[ June 07, 2002, 13:53: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I heard a rumor that an early draft of Ep II had Shmi admitting to Anakin that he had a father, and she lied about that whole created by the Force bit.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Wouldn't the Force want to create someone who turned out good, though? Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
well he did turn out good, in the end..
but the birth of Anakin led to the birth of Leia and Luke and led to the new order created at the end of p6.. presumably, from there, either Luke or Leia's children or Luke or Leia themselves would supposedly serve to bring balance to the Force. So basically the Force caused a whole deal of bad stuff to happen in order to have the final balancing result.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think we may be overlooking something though...what if Anakin isn't the Chosen One? The Jedi think that he is. They're basing that on his Midichlorian count. But what if the Chosen One is actually Luke?
Just a thought...but the Jedi aren't always right...and they don't really understand this prophecy of theirs...
Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I think we may be overlooking something though...what if Anakin isn't the Chosen One? The Jedi think that he is. They're basing that on his Midichlorian count. But what if the Chosen One is actually Luke?
Luke Skywalker is a bridge. He is the last of the old Jedi, having been taught by Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda; he is also the first of the new Jedi, those that he trains. Being the only Jedi for a time means that there is balance -- no contention, only Luke. But who brings about that state of affairs? I'd say Anakin, spurred on by Luke to desert the Vader persona and the Dark Side, killing the Emperor. The removal of Palpatine costs Anakin his life, thus bringing the Jedi to one singular, balanced point -- the Force is in balance.
(Just a crazy theory written while in desperate need of sleep... zzzzzzz)
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
I don't think Palpatine could handle Shmi in the bedroom. Thus, your theory is kaput.
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
My theory is that Anakin is the chosen one because he is the only one powerful enough to defeat Darth Sidious.
Yoda talks about the "Dark side clouding everything" Anakin by becoming Darth Vader then later reverting back to the light side and killing Sidious in effect leaves the Sith Order with no one to carry it on.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Or, maybe, there is no "balance of the force!" After all, it's just a prophecy -- even Yoda & Co. aren't sure if this is what's going on, they just see all those medi-chlorean-thingymuhbobbers and decide "oooooh, aaaaah, mechuma-mechuma!"
Posted by Magna Ultrus (Member # 239) on :
If the force needs to be balanced, what happens after RoTJ? In the real "Star Wars" and not any of the silly EU. You've only got Luke and Leia. But there aren't any Sith.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Leia goes evil, and tries to get nominated to Chancellor of the New Republic, but she's really scheming to sieze control because she's Adolf Hitler's daughter and she's got his head frozen in ice after her mommy escaped the Soviets in a secret time machine that transported her a "long time ago," to "a galaxy far, far, away ..."
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Isn't Anakin already bringing balance to the Force? For thousands of years, the light side has been much much much more powerful than the dark side. Anakin is going to help bring the dark side back up to speed. Hence, balance.
Posted by Magna Ultrus (Member # 239) on :
Well, yes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, there have always been lots o' Jedi and only 2 Sith... "Only two there are, a master and an apprentice". (The Sith killed each other until there were two).
I don't know if the 'balance' has anything to do with "Good v Evil" Force users.
Clearly before they met Annakin, there was "an imbalance", and after luke kills Palpatine he restores the balance... presumably.
So maybe it's Palpatine who is the 'unbalancing force' - 'scuse the pun.
And I always had an inkling that maybe Qui-Gon was Annakin's father... the way that Shmi was looking at him and him at her a few times there in TPM... I dunno.
Posted by Magna Ultrus (Member # 239) on :
Mark Hamill should play some wierd old guy in Episode III who turns out to be Anakin's dad. That would be like all cool.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
And Jake Lloyd can appear as a very young Luke! And he can wear a wig, and be Leia too!
Posted by Magna Ultrus (Member # 239) on :
You are not George Lucas my friend? Yet?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Yippeee!
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Just wondering... It doesn't really sound to me as if Yoda were saying that the Sith have existed in twosomes throughout known history. The phrasing *could* mean that, but he could just be saying in wonderment that he's only sensing the existence of two Sith at the time: "Only two there are" when there should have been hundreds!
Given the temptations of the Cool Side, there should probably be much more Sith candidates than there are Jedi candidates. And the Jedi are an exclusive club, quite willing to turn down promising students, and hardly making an effort of protecting all those strong in the Force from becoming evil.
So one would assume that the natural "balance" of the Force would heavily favor the hordes of bumbling amateurs who quickly succumb to the Cool Side. The Jedi would be the ones outnumbered, not the Sith. To have the numbers of the Sith drop to mere two would be a serious imbalance indeed...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
As far as I understand it, though, the Sith are generally considered to be extinct. So people aren't out there looking for them to join up. And according to their own rules, they keep it to a twosome. According to some of the books, the Sith believe that the Force exists in finite amounts. Therefore, the more people you have using it, the less powerful each user can be. This is one reason they keep it to two people. One to be the master, and one to carry it on. They're essentially waiting for the time when the Jedi have depleated their strength to the point that the Sith can reassert themselves.
The Jedi don't really seem to understand this prophecy at all. Because, you're all right...the Boring Side is extremely dominant right now. Bringing balance would almost certainly mean bad things for the Jedi. However, the Jedi also believe in serving the will of the Force, so maybe they're determined to do that even if it means bad things will happen.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I hereby serve notice that if Luke and Leia appear in any capacity other than foetuses (foeti?) I will take out a contract on one G. Lucas.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I could see them appearing as new borns (in other words...if Padme gives birth during the film)... but if they're old enough to talk and generally annoy me...it'll ruin the whole thing.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Is THAT what a newborn is? Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What about talking foetuses!?!
"I was going down to placenta-head to get some POWER-CONVERTERS!!"
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
LOL...yah...I didn't figure you needed a dictionary or anything... I just meant, as opposed to being several weeks or months old. I think the oldest we should see them is fresh from the oven.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
IIRC, Yoda didn't say that there are "only" two. He said there are "always" two.
However, one could assume he was talking about the Sith lords. There could be numerous dark Jedi serving under the two and only two lords.
[ June 07, 2002, 14:40: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
In eps 1 and 2 Yoda makes many comments about the Jedi Order's losing its abilities with the force.
"Blind we are if creation of this clone army we could not see"
"Victory! Victory you say? Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen, begun the clone war has"
Perhaps the presence of the Sith as AndrewR suggested is the inbalance. Darth Maul made reference to "Revenge" and then in ROTJ Palpatine explained that he designed all the events from the Invasion of Naboo to the Battle of Endor.
I think that by destroying the Emperor Anakin returned the power of sight to the Jedi.
On the matter of the twins, I wouldnt mind seeing Obi-Wan deliver Luke to his uncle. Leia on the other hand remembers Padme, she said she remembered her as a sad woman perhaps Padme takes up residence on Alderaan with her.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:ROTJ Palpatine explained that he designed all the events from the Invasion of Naboo to the Battle of Endor.
He does?
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
It's obvious that he is in "control" of things throughout the original and new trilogies.
quote: Darth Sidious: This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans, Viceroy. Begin landing your troops.
Nute Gunray: Ahhh, My Lord, is that... legal?
Darth Sidious: I will make it legal.
Thats a quote from TPM then later on he goes on to say this in ROTJ
quote: Emperor Palpatine: Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I'm not saying he wasn't behind the invasion of Naboo.
But I think you're looking too much into that ROTJ quote. I think it's pretty clear Palpatine is speaking ONLY of the trap, since he doesn't go on about Naboo, but rather talks about how he let the Bothans escape ...
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
I thought about that too but the way I see it Sidious has somehow gained the power of sight that Yoda and Mace once shared which would go along with what Yoda said in AOTC about his being blind to the clone army and such.
I'm starting to believe alot more in that finite force theory that Aban was talking about. Obi Wan spoke of the "Dark Times" in ANH obviously refering to the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi.
I think during these "Dark times" the Dark Side of the force took over kinda nudging the Light Side over and of course weakening the Jedi.
IMO Anakin brings balance to the force through ending the "dark times" by killing Sidious.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
The general idea is that Anakin kills most of the Jedi, then he kills the Emperor, then dies leaving the legacy to his son.
It should be noted even though that the Jedi may believe that Anakin is the Chosen One, he actually in his prime can not compete against Luke when he's in his prime. That's if we count the books, and that at one point, it was once said that Luke himself was even more powerful than Yoda. So you got the sinlge most powerful Force user and not even a equal in power Sith.
Then again I wonder how this can bring balance to the Force when all there is, are Light Side Force users and little to none Dark Side users...
[ June 09, 2002, 15:02: Message edited by: Matrix ]
Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
Perhaps the whole balance thing is based on the power of the light and dark sides and not the actual number of people. Sidious obviously has a tremendous amount of power, maybe that in itself is what started the imbalance of the force. So instead of having an equal amount of Sith knights, Sidious himself harnessed all that nice dark force power as opposed to having several Sith lords with lesser amounts of power.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I think there should be a Star Wars Episode 4 1/2 The Star Trek Menace where Palpatine sends Anakin Vader to blow up the Star Trek universe, but the Klingons fly cloaked birds-of-prey into his Mini Star Destroyers, so Palpatine builds him a bunch of Average Star Destroyers, and Anakin Vader wipes out the Klingons but the Jem'Hadar start blowing them up, so Palpatine builds him a Super Star Destroyer and Anakin Vader wipes everyone out, but he's hurt really badly and becomes Darth Vader in memory of his bestest buddy Darth Dooku, who was killed by Obi-Wan Kenobi, who used to be Anakin Vader's best friend before he slept with Padme Amidala and pushed Anakin Vader off a rope bridge over into a pit of hot lava, but he survived because the evil Kali cult members ripped his heart out and lowered him into the flame, but his heart didn't burn up, so they made him their god and called him "daddy-waddy", but Anakin was embarassed by that name, so he just decided to call himself Nader after the American President candidate, but he can't pronounce "n" so it comes out Vader, but all the big jedi boys made fun of him, so he killed them all and that was a big surprise to everyone so then Palpatine made him Anakin Vader because Skywalker is a wussy wussy name for a not-nice lord of the evil Force and then he decided to kill everyone in the Star Trek universe especially that annoying brat kid Wesley who won the pod race every episode and saved the Federation Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-D, and they should have kept him around, because after he left the Federation Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-D went kabloooie and they had to get a new Federation Starship Enterprise, but this one was NCC-1701-E and not NCC-1701-D because NCC-1701-D went kabloooie and they had to get a new Federation Starship Enterprise that was NCC-1701-E and if Wesley had been on the Federation Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-E in Star Wars Episode 4 1/2 The Return of the Trekkies he could've blown up Anakin Vader's super star destroyer, and Palpatine would have had to build a XXL Super Star Destroyer and if Wesley was still on the Federation Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-E that would have gotten blowned up too, and soon Palpatine would have had to build a Super-Super-Extra Gulp Star Destroyer so big it took up the whole galaxy and Wesley would destroy that too by winning the pod race and then Anakin would get spanked for leading the Evil Galactic Empire to ruin and thus enabling the small rebellion in Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope Special Edition and Star Wars Episode V Empire Strikes Back Special Edition and Star Wars Episode VI The Return of the Jedi Special Edition to defeat them for good and make Anakin Vader cry for all the bad things he'd ever ever ever done but it should be episode III I/II, not 4 1/2 that was silly and 3 1/2 doesn't have the roman numerical thing going so that's silly like a BMC too and I'm sorry.
*phew!*
Try saying THAT all at once!
[ June 09, 2002, 17:18: Message edited by: Snay ]
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Hmm... you know, Yoda and Luke could see the Future in Ep5, and yet the Jedi couldn't in Ep2. Jedi could appear as ghosts in Ep6, but not as of Ep2. Something happened to the Force in EP3. Something BIG. It's possible that this had to do with Anakin's conversion, or the death of the Jedi, or something else entirely.
Posted by Magna Ultrus (Member # 239) on :
Unrelated.
The Jedi who were killed in the Arena fight were shown to be dead on the ground. No disappearance. Hm. Perhaps vanishing is the exception, not the rule.
[ June 09, 2002, 21:10: Message edited by: Magna Ultrus ]
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Can no one see the big difference in how Yoda and Kenobi and Vader/Anakin died ... and the way Qui-Gon and the supernumery Jedi in EpII died?
It seems that Jedi who die as a direct result of engaging in combat (i.e., in the middle of a firefight) do not become ghosts. Perhaps only "pure" light-sided Jedi can become ghosts, and dueling (no matter the reason) borders on the dark side?
PS, did no one like my long run on sentence? I thought it was funny. Then again, I think UM is a funny guy, so I have no sense of humor.
I do think its kind of funny how UM, in EVER OTHER forum on this site is all sarcastic, and cutting whit, and top of his form and whatnot, but here on the Star Wars board he's all serious. It's ... well, it's not normal seeing UM actually contribute to a thread! It's nice, don't get me wrong, just not normal. Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
I'd think that Yoda and Obi Wan used their remaining powers to transcend or whatever into the force. Obi Wan pretty much didn't even die, Vader's saber went woosh, Obi Wan smiled or something and faded out. I think it was his choice to become one with the force in the way he did. With the Jedi as diminished as they were in the last episodes, Yoda and Obi Wan likely gave themselves to the force completely to keep it strong.
[ June 09, 2002, 21:38: Message edited by: DeadCujo ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"It seems that Jedi who die as a direct result of engaging in combat (i.e., in the middle of a firefight) do not become ghosts."
That would, of course, rule out Obi-Wan, who died in combat w/ Vader.
So, Obi-Wan died when Vader cut him. Yoda died because he was nine hundred years old. Vader died because Palpatine zapped him w/ lightning. Qui-Gon died when he got Maul's lightsaber through his bowels. And the Jedi in the Geonosis battle died by getting shot, or tossed to the ground from high places, or other such things.
I'm not seeing any readily distinguishable disappear/don't disappear categories emerging.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
No, not at all.
Obi-Wan wasn't fighting Vader when he died. He wasn't in a combat stance, and he wasn't resisting the blow. He put his lightsaber up, and allowed himself to be killed.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Personally, I like the idea that Qui Gon was the first Jedi to figure out how to become one with the Force...or at least, retain his identity after death. Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin seem to do it more fully since their bodies also disappear and they can reappear to people... but the fact that we heard Qui Gon's voice in Ep 2 suggests he's still around.
My guess is that Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin will uncover something about Qui Gon in Ep 3 that will lead them to learn about this whole "retaining your identity" thing.
Just a thought.
Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: It should be noted even though that the Jedi may believe that Anakin is the Chosen One, he actually in his prime can not compete against Luke when he's in his prime. That's if we count the books, and that at one point, it was once said that Luke himself was even more powerful than Yoda. So you got the sinlge most powerful Force user and not even a equal in power Sith.
I'm sorry? What are we taking to be Anakin's 'prime'? (I'm assuming we're all agreed that Luks is at his best in ROTJ.) Luke only beat Anakin/Vader once, and that was when (a) Luke was driven by fury, (b) Vader was emotionally torn. Lucan has decribed the ROTJ duel as "an untrained boy fighting a cripple." I don't think we really know how Luke and Anakin would have matched up if both at their best.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, Luke was at his best IN THE FILMS in ROTJ. In the EU, he got considerably better over the years.
Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Well, Luke was at his best IN THE FILMS in ROTJ.
Yes, but Anakin/Vader was far from being at his best at that time, both physically and emotionally.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
I thought it had been agreed that the greatest Jedi Master of all time was R2-D2?
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
In Shadows of the Empire book, Vader said that Luke's potential was greater than Vaders or Palpatine. But that was in the books. Years after the events of RotJ, Luke got increasily powerful to the point where the only way to defeat Luke was to injure him, in a way to inhibit his way to use the Force.
In the films his best was in the RotJ, but Anakin from AotC could fight better than Luke.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
As for Jedi vanishing, well Vader didn't, did he? We didn't see him disappear, and presuambly Luke was cremating a bit more than his suit. Presumably dead Jedi then can manifest even without visibly transcending. Which then begs the question (a la Omey's thread over in the Enterprise forum) "Why didn't we see more ghostly Jedi at the end of ROTJ?" Or did Darth Shaft know of a much more happening party to appear at than one involving a bunch of teddy bears? 8)
Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
Yeah, and Vader ended up being a ghost at the end, too.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
But that's my point, DeadFido! He didn't ghostify upon dying, but he still becomes one anyway! Therefore it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Darth Neeson might reappear.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't think we can really tell if Anakin's body disappears or not. We only see it for a second after he dies and collapses. The next we see him, Luke's turned him into a crispy critter and the helmet is back on, so there's no way to tell if he's in there.
I'm thinking that, if his body had disappeared, they would have showed it. But then again, the appearance of Anakin as a ghost was kind of supposed to be a surprise at the end, so they probably didn't want to give any hints of it in that scene.
Given that we now know it is apparently a JEdi custom to cremate the bodies of fallen Jedi (as evidenced by Qui Gon's funeral, it would make sense that Anakin's body was actually in the armor. We never saw Luke burning Yoda's clothes, after all, yet he apparently knew enough Jedi custom to give Anakin a "proper" funeral.
Perhaps the explanation for why Yoda and ObiWan disappear will be revealed in the third movie.
[ June 14, 2002, 05:18: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
yet he apparently knew enough Jedi custom to give Anakin a "proper" funeral.
Or maybe pyre type cremation is simply a common custom Jedi or not. Just like brown robes .
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Of course Anakin didn't disappear. If he did, why was Luke straining to drag him up into his shuttle? The armor couldn't have weighed that much.
Aside from that, why have a funeral pyre if he disappeared? Did Luke burn Yoda's hut? No.
The only reason Anakin appeared as a ghost is because he was so strong with the force.
Obi-wan disappeared in order to distract Vader from his son, Luke, who was about thirty feet away. Is this hard?
Total ignorance of her lineage and the Force saved Leia when Vader was interrogating her. (Vader may have sensed that she had some kind of Force potential, but he probably didn't care. As soon as they got what they needed from her, she was going to be put to death.)
None of the other Jedi showed up because either A) they weren't strong enough with the force to join with it when they died or B) they had nothing directly to do with Luke.
I don't show up at parties where I don't know anybody, either.
The force was balanced when Palpatine was killed. He is the Imbalance in the force. Thusly Anakin fulfills the prophecy in ROTJ.
Palpatine won't be a ghost, because his power is based on Death, while the Jedi's are based upon Life. The more Jedi there are, the weaker Palpatine would be. The less there are, the stronger he grows. He's a leech, a parasite, feeding off of Death, in some kind of Lucas ode to necromancy.
Due to what Yoda said in PM, after ROTJ there are two more Sith out there, somewhere. If Lucas were going to do episodes seven-nine, they would be the antagonists.
Just to put something else to rest while I'm thinking of it: Yoda's lightsabre was green. So was Luke's in ROTJ. Luke almost certainly modeled his after Yoda's, not his fathers, or Obi's.
[ June 14, 2002, 06:26: Message edited by: thoughtychops ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
quote:Originally posted by thoughtychops: Due to what Yoda said in PM, after ROTJ there are two more Sith out there, somewhere. If Lucas were going to do episodes seven-nine, they would be the antagonists.
Just to put something else to rest while I'm thinking of it: Yoda's lightsabre was green. So was Luke's in ROTJ. Luke almost certainly modeled his after Yoda's, not his fathers, or Obi's.
Ummm... ok... but no.
During Return of the Jedi, the two Sith were Palpatine (the Master) and Vader (the Apprentice). They both died at the same time. After Return of the Jedi, there are no Sith.
The "always two" line refers to the fact that a Sith master takes an apprentice, trains him, dies, then the apprentice is the master and takes an apprentice himself. It doesn't mean there are just somehow magically always two Sith in the galaxy.
There is no evidence at all that Luke modeled his saber after Yoda's in any way. One of the books says that he used Obi Wan's plans to construct the hilt. The saber he used in RotJ was already built and installed in R2 before he even went back to Dagobah. How would he have modeled it after Yoda's?
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Maybe the only crystals Luke could find were green, not blue. That ever cross your mind, Thoughtychops? Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
I have my own theories about the colors and their crystal relationship. One theory is that that they're not entirely dependent on the type of crystal which I won't go in to! But if they are, I believe that the crystal which emit purple energy are among the most difficult to obtain and are a sign of a Jedi's determination and skill, and enhance said Jedi's aura with a sense of asskicking ability. I also believe, that despite his accomplishments, Luke Skywalker is a weak pansy.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
quote: How would he have modeled it after Yoda's?
Yoda trained him, duh. I can't imagine that the entire training regimen for a Jedi is cross country running like some second rate boot camp. Darth Vader made it clear that learning to build your own lightsabre is part of the training.
I don't read the EU books. They don't appeal to me, and I don't want to read four thousand pages to learn when Luke lost his virginity. Nothing against people who do, mind you. We've all got geek shit we have to research...
But I only go by what I see in the films. In the case of the lightsabre, I'll admit that he could have gone to Ben's hideaway on Dune for the plans, but I think it's MUCH cooler if he built one based on Yoda's teachings. Makes him a hard lad, you see.
But also...
Snay: Don't try and castrate me now, but I don't buy the crystals theory. I don't even know where that idea came from, frankly. I've seen the debates that go nowhere but geeksville...
Personally, I think the lightsabres are some kind of conduit into the living force, not some mere laser sword. Just think: Only a Jedi could build it, because you have to be specially attuned to the Force. Anybody could use it, because it's just a tool...
Depending on your own proclivities in force usage, and depending on how you used the force to build the sword, how it draws power from the force, the blade would change color. And you don't need any weird and hokey sounding crystals for functionality, either. They truly become magic swords, drawing power from the universe itself.
Why not? It's as believable as a 900 year old frog levitating rocks with the power of his mind. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK... so you're saying you only buy what you see in the movies. I respect that. But the movies don't really ever say anything about the nature of the blade. They never discuss how they're built or how they're connected to their builder, if at all.
So you're coming up with the magic sword theory, which instead of relying on any source of information, relies on nothing. Have I got that right?
If anything, the movies presnt the sabers as a piece of technology, pure and simple. An incredibly precise and difficult to construct piece of technology to be sure... but a piece of technology none the less.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
It's based on speculation. Same as just about anything on these boards.
Remember, Star Wars is as much fantasy as sci-fi. In that light, such an explanation is perfectly plausible.
The movies present the lightsabres as being incredibly unrealistic pieces of technology, used by knights that essentially are bending the rules of reality. Sounds like magic to me.
And you're right: Within the movies there's no mention of how they work at all. And Certainly no mention of any crystals. So there. Crystal theory, kaput, eh?
[ June 14, 2002, 12:41: Message edited by: thoughtychops ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
To you. I, on the other hand find the crystal theory just as believeable. And since Lucas films seems to support the novels more than fan speculation.... I'm going with the crystal theory
You just seem to be going all dogmatic for a theory that is just as much pulled from your head as anything. Don't be mean. Be nice. It's so much more fun.
Posted by thoughtychops (Member # 480) on :
Inner Dogma. Hell yeah.
Nah. I wasn't being mean. I just like my ideas better than the guys who got paid to write it.
If that makes any sense.
Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
George Lucas said that Qui-Gon is going to be in Episode 3... Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by thoughtychops: Just to put something else to rest while I'm thinking of it: Yoda's lightsabre was green. So was Luke's in ROTJ. Luke almost certainly modeled his after Yoda's, not his fathers, or Obi's.
Umm...considering that Luke's saber was the same prop as Obi-Wan's, just repainted, I think he based it on that saber.
-MMoM Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
well... it wasn't the exact same prop. ObiWan's from ANH was made of found parts. Luke's from RotJ was a machined piece. In fact...the first machined piece they used. All the other sabers were assembled from found parts. However, Luke's bears a hella resemblance to Obi Wan's.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
A very close resemblance. In fact it looks so much closer to Obi-wans than Yodas, that I'd think that Luke modeled his lightsaber after Obi-wans then Yodas.
But thats just me.
Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
quote:Originally posted by thoughtychops: Darth Vader made it clear that learning to build your own lightsabre is part of the training.
From the ROTJ script:
***
Vader looks down from Luke to the lightsaber in his own black- gloved hand. He seems to ponder Luke's words.
VADER (indicating lightsaber) I see you have constructed a new lightsaber.
Vader ignites the lightsaber and holds it to examine its humming, brilliant blade.
VADER Your skills are complete. Indeed, you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen.
They stand for a moment, then Vader extinguishes the lightsaber.
***
Well, I don't think that Vader says that construction of a lightsabre is an essential part of Jedi training. To give you an alternative theory: most Jedi are/were simply issued with a lightsabre, perhaps made by a skilled Jedi armourer of sorts. However, it is the mark of a particularly skilled Jedi that he can construct his own weapon -- hence the "indeed, you are powerful." I mean, do you really think the kiddies Yoda was training had made their sabres?
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Yes, but only after a certain age. It does take skill to constrcut a lightsaber afterall. If it's your opinion that its constructed as part of the training or just constructing a lightsaber shows that you are good at building things, then it's your opinion. Since evidence shows both ways, in the movies only. If we go by books as well, then it's part of the training.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Of course, these are the same books that say that Boba Fett stole and moified a Police Ship for Slave One.
Posted by Ultimate Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Boba Fett is dead.
Posted by Thoughtchopper (Member # 480) on :
Long Live Boba Fett!
Reading all this again, I'm thinking that Luke just bought his Light-sabre off of ebay, and decided not to tell anybody about it.
Like you'd tell YOUR pops you couldn't do Shop as well as he could. Duh.
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