He was supposedly on the council roughly 10 years before the events of AotC. He wasn't there during the events of TPM - so either he was there a little before TPM or after. There are only two council members who are not there who were in TPM, Yaddle and Yareel Poof I think.
One would assume it was either a 'lost 20' or something to do with Sidious. Surely the council would have recognised him looking like Palpatine?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I don't think he had anything to do with the clone army. IIRC Kenobi said that Sifo-Dyas was dead when the army was ordered. Dooku probably just used his name to hide his identity.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ahhh, OK. So he just rocked on up to Kamino and said he was a Jedi - Sifo Dyas. They check up if there is s Sifo Dyas? If he was dead - that wouldn't have gelled. Why would he have needed to make up a name anyway? He could have just called himself anything. And if he needed to use a Jedi name to cover his tracks - why someone who was dead? Why not just call himself Plo Koon or Yareel Poof or Ki Adi Mundi or something?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
This might be bleedingly obvious to everyone else, but doesn't his name sound similar to a juxtaposition of the name Darth Sidious?
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Fits el-neato in his Grand Scheme of things.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Except that other Jedi knew who Sifo-Dias was, and apparently, the circumstances of his demise. So while someone may have taken his identity after his death to order the clones, it seems to me that Sifo-Dias and Sidious/Palpatine are not the same.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm guessing that the identity of Sifo-Dyas and the circumstances under which he became one with the Force will be a major revelation in the third movie.
I'm guessing, believe it or not, that Qui Gonn had something to do with the whole thing. Remember Dooku's line to Kenobi about Qui Gonn going along with what he was doing? I don't think that was all false. I think Qui Gonn was acting under orders from Dooku shortly before Episode 1 and had something to do with impersonating Sifo-Dyas. I doubt he actually killed him... but probably put the pieces together when Sifo-Dyas suddenly turned up dead.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
I don't think Qui-Gon was involved at all. I don't trust Dooku's dialogue to Obi-Wan as anything but a lie on Dooku's part, especially since Dooku was, well, lying.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, he was lying about some of it... but he did tell Obi Wan that there was a Sith Lord in control of the Senate. Which is true.
I think that Dooku has his own agenda and I don't think he's fully committed to helping Palpatine like Maul was. I also think that Dooku will meet his death (and the Clone Wars will end) at the hand of Palpatine's new apprentice, Vader.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
I think you imply a plan where none exists. I don't think Lucas has constructed a cohesive story plan beyond the painfully obvious. I would bet money we never hear of Sifo-Dyas again.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I rather thought that Sifo-Dias tied in somehow with the Jedi Library records being erased.
Lucas has apparantly changed his mind about Dias's role during the makeing of the film since in the novelisation (and presumably earlier drafts of the script) neither Kenobi nor the Council had ever heard of a Jedi named Sifo-Dias.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
One of the big reasons I think we'll see Qui Gonn pop back up into the thick of things somehow is because they stuck Qui Gonn's voice into Yoda's awareness of Anakin at the Tusken camp. The novelization of the movie played this up even more saying that Yoda was disturbed at the clarity with which he was able to distinguish Qui Gonn's personality.
Just a guess. But I think it would be a cool twist.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by OnToMars: I think you imply a plan where none exists. I don't think Lucas has constructed a cohesive story plan beyond the painfully obvious. I would bet money we never hear of Sifo-Dyas again.
I don't believe that. While obviously Lucas' statements that he had all of this prequel business planned out in his head from the beginning are to be strongly questioned, there's probably SOME small measure of truth to them. I think he's obviously got some sort of at least rough plan for how the story goes.
Personally, I don't even see how it's possible to write scripts for three movies and two prequels concerning a number of the same characters and *not* be thinking about what might happen in the next chapter. I wouldn't be able to do it. I'd constantly be thinking about (or at least generating ideas for) what I'd write next.
-MMoM Posted by Nimrod Pimding (Member # 205) on :
Dooku enters office of Kamino Kloning Koncerns
*dingeling*
Cloner Attendant: May I help you?
Padawan Dooku Tortfeiser: Yes, can I get ten clone brigades with training and gear?
CA: Certainly, may I ask for what purpose?
D: Um, peacekeeping. Mainly.
CA: I see. *enters data into pad* Law enforcement a bit lazy in your system?
D: Yes, bunch of tenderfoots.
CA: And who is the receiver?
D: The Jedi order, Coruscant office.
CA: And have we brought a prototype?
D: We do indeed, here's the plum. *shows photo-op of Jango Fett, aiming blasters akimbo at camera*
CA: Well he looks sturdy enough.
D: Doesn't he?
CA: Will you require transports and deployment vehichles?
D: I've outsourced that beforehand, thank you.
CA: Just as well, it's not really our fort�.
D: *gazes through window* I gathered as much.
CA: Well then, that will be thirty trillion of your republic credits, if they will do.
D: No, they won't.
CA: You're from the central systems, aren't you? I thought republic credits would do fine.
D: No, they won't! But I DO have five Tecaliters of Geonosian rocksalt, flaked, not ground. Goes well with the Kaminoan mopsa-salmon, I hear.
CA: It does indeed! I thought the geonosians were rather xenophobic about their precious salt-trading?
D: I have my sources. I've got some samples in my ship.
CA: That will be quite satisfactory. And will the invoice and registrations be sent to 415 Jedi Temple, Yoda Boulevard, as usual?
D: Actually it's a present, so don't send any correspondance whatsoever to anyone but myself! And could I have the clones giftwrapped with red ribbons?
CA: Of course *enters data in pad*.
D: Here's the billing adress to the Jedi...um...annex! Yes, our annex on Geonosis!
CA: Very well. The process will take ten years for the first batch, fifteen for the rest. There's a coffee-machine in the lounge for you.
D: Thank you, I'll just come by later, if it's all the same.
CA: As you wish, Master...?
D: Er...(looks at nametag on bloodstained saber in pocket) Sifo-Dyas, Sid to you.
CA: As you wish, Jedi Master Sid!
D: Just Sid.
CA: I see, Sir Sid. Thank you for choosing Kamino Kloning Koncerns!
D: Yes, thanks! *hurries out through door*
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Well, the encyclopedia at starwars.com has no entry for Sifo-Dyas. He doesn't seem to be very important.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'm sure that there is a reference to Sifo on the DVD somewhere and that the mystery will be revealed in episode 3. Of course I could be mistaken.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I agree with Rev. It is almost certainly something that is meant to lead into EpIII, and (IMO) probably has something to do with the mystery surrounding Sidious & Palpatine.
-MMoM Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There's a mystery?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, that's kind of a matter of debate, I suppose. I somehow get the feeling that there's going to be some sort of surprise revelation about the situation. As in, everyone expecting and assuming all along that Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same, but then it turning out that they're clones or some other such shock.
After all, Lucas, when asked about why the Jedi cannot sense Palpatine's force-power/manipulation, has said that there's a reason for it. And i'm almost certain that "Sifo-Dyas" is indeed a corruption of "Sidious."
It's just a feeling, but I have a hunch that Lucas is planning some kind of big climax for the end of his life's work.
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
He's an EVIL twin!!! *dramatic chord*
Seriously though, I think the reason that the Jedi cannot sense the dark side in Palpatine has something to do with the Jedis' weekness that was mentioned in AotC, the one that only the Sith know about. Then again Yoda did give Palpatine a funny look...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe it's a reason that whole 'lost twenty' thing was dropped - maybe Sidious was one of the lost twenty - and it was too obvious if they left it in? It wasn't even a part of the 'cut scenes' on the DVDs.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
well, we know dooku is one of the lost 20. I can't see Palpatine/Sidious being anyone that the Jedi are familiar with in any form. Theymay not be able to sense Palp's Force manipulation, but they would still recognize his face!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Lost 20? What? Dropouts? Perfect for the muscial version in 10 years "Jedi school dropouts...."
I think Sifo Dyas will turn out to be Anikin's father: killed by Sideous to make the whole cycle of manipulation complete: only to be broken by luke refusing to fight Vader.
...and he could be played by John Travolta. During the big lightsabre duel with Mace Windu, they can reminice about what people call a Big-Mac on Kamino.....
Now that I think about it, those Kaminoloids really suck at customer service! It takes them TEN YEARS to fill your order and they don't check in with you even once? That's like the waitress never coming back to refill your drink. I know what happened to Sifo Dias: he's been in the room next to the office waiting to complain to the management about the service for the past decade. One day the Kaminoloids will be spring cleaning and come upon his dessicated remains in front of a sign saying "back in fifteen minutes".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
LOL! You're right!! Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yes, the Lost 20 are the only 20 Jedi who have ever left the order. I don't believe this number includes those who have been steel toed out, but rather refers to those who have left voluntarily.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Now that I think about it, those Kaminoloids really suck at customer service! It takes them TEN YEARS to fill your order and they don't check in with you even once?
Well, maybe whoever filled the order specifically said, "Okay, since it'll take ten years for the first units to be ready, you just keep working on it, and I'll send someone back in ten years to take delivery."
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Pretty sloppy of Sideous not to check in on their progress. What if they went out of business or got wiped out by a big asteroid or something? He probably ordered the clone army from the Kaminoloids' infomercial or mabye from spam sent to his hotmail box.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
sidious knew of the progress.. he simply set it up that no one else would know.. i.e., erasing Kamino from the Archives.
We know that it wasn't a complete information blackout, because Jango lived on Kamino and had been in contact with Dooku, when Dooku ordered him to kill Amidala. (The scene where Obi-Wan spies on Dooku and the separatists confirms that the attempts on Amidala's life were made by Jango and other operatives, at the order of Dooku, at the request of Nute Gunray). Since Dooku was in contact with Sidious, it would have been easy for Jango to tell Dooku and then for Dooku to tell Sidious that the plan was moving forward, even though the Kaminoans were not making any official reports to their contractors.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Jesus! With all the "he said- she said" going on, one of Jango's hired killers could tell him "I barely missed her tonight" and by the time Sideous finally hears about it'll probably be "Amidala's bare assed naked tonight".
Toyfare magazine said it best in their "Twisted Mego Theatre": "Sideous tells Dooku to nkill Amidala. Dooku hires Jango fett to kill Amidala for him. Then, Jango hires Zam-wazzit(?) to kil Amidala. And THEN Zam has the little worm things do the work? What, are assassins in a labor union?"
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Whatever happened to the "Spartii" or "Spaarti" (damn spelling) cloning cylinders from the Thrawn Trilogy? Such as the ones from Mount Tantis(s) (Damn spelling again)
I thought that was what was used to create the clones, not these really skinny Campino-loid guys. And thier cloning technology.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
a) I doubt that George Lucas places much personal emphasis on keeping his movies consistent with the books. b) IIRC, the Zahn books don't really go into detail on the actual origin of the cloning cylinders, just that they were "an interesting little bit of technology" that the Palpatine had stashed away. For all we know, he wiped them out and stole their technology later on.
Posted by Nimrod Pimding (Member # 205) on :
The later stormtroopers are not clones, they are drafted.
END-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i heard later that Lucas intended exactly the opposite.. he knew that the stormtroopers in ANH were all clones of the same guy.
(is that a spoiler for a movie that came out in 1977?)
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"he knew that the stormtroopers in ANH were all clones of the same guy"
But all of different height?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
yeah, he definitely should have CGIed them.
trying to remember where i heard that said.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Stormtroopers being clons of Jango makes sense only of Jango had some kind of severe nearsightedness that the helmet compensated for and he was too proud to tell the Kaminoloids. That would at least explain why the Kamino troopers are kicking ass in ATOC and Stormtroopers can't hit Han and Chewie from five feet away.....
Besides, at least some of the Imperials have to be conscripted or voulenteer: the officers certainly are'nt clones and the few times we hear stormtroopers talking, they have seperate and diffrent voices. I think George is just making this stuff up as he goes along. Making all the Stormtroopers clones also lessens the value of their lives: several hundred thouusand of wich are lost between the destruction of both Death Stars and the Executor. Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Bah, I still think the authors of the books do a better job than Lucas at making Star Wars so great.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the answer you, seek, young one, is ffffffbbbbbpppptttt, NOT.
oh well.
the movies are where stuff that matters happens. the books are extraneous.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Though that has nothing to do with the actual quality of events presented.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I believe the idea that the Stormtroopers are clones has been knocking around since at least the early drafts of ESB. I forget the exact quote but some of the early character notes on Boba Fett has him as a "Relic of the Clone Wars" who left the Stormtroopers to become a bounty hunter for some reason, I think it was because he had some abnormality (for a clone) that made him too independent to be a Stormtrooper. Lucas does mention most of this on the DVD commentary IIRC, this could also be the source of some of the supposed Fett background stories that have appeared in the novels an comics over the years. I remember one of them had him as a Stormtrooper who deserted after killing his superior officer. While this doesn't necessarily mean that all the Stormtroopers seen in the old trilogy were Jango clones, it is certainly implied.
Two things you might want to consider;
1) Assuming the classic trilogy Stormtroopers were infact conscripts or volunteers, where did they all come from and how did they become so loyal to the emperor to the point of fanaticism?
2) What happened the 1,000,000+ clones after the war? They obviously won and presumably killed all the Jedi too so it's unlikely that they were all wiped out. I suppose that the survivors could have gradually been replaced by conscripts as time went on so by the time of ANH they were all either dead or retired. That is assuming of course that no more clone batches were made after the war was ended.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye there's a whole planet of identical over the hill Jango clones passivly awaiting new orders from the Empire......or mabye they kept the accelerated aging and croak at 45 or something. mabye the Kaminoloids will save the day with a built in self destruct or something in Ep.III.
I think conscription is completely feasable. Good propaganda plus a high Imperial standard of life and training would make for lots of willing conscripts. Was'nt Han supposed to have been an Imperial pilot prior to rescuing Chewie? Not canon, I know, bit we do know that luke was gonna join up for Imperial flight school....
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Wasn't cloning banned after the Wars?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: how did they become so loyal to the emperor to the point of fanaticism?
Who is to say that they are? The only thing Stormtroopers are ever heard talking about amongst themselves is the latest trendy sports-vehicle. Hardly a foundation on which to build a theory of complete devotion.
As far as I can see they're just regular grunts in weird looking suits.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
...with bad aim.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Sure, when they're trying to let someone get away.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
A curious strategy.
"Sir, should we kill these horrible forest creatures?"
"For God's sake, no! The Emperor insists they escape! The rebels too! Also, we have to ensure they blow up the Death Star and smash our fleet."
"Aye aye, sir!"
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
It strikes me that clones are probably VERY expensive. It might be cost prohibitive to RAISE a clone army. I mean, a million and a half clones isn't much of an army ... ESPECIALLY for a huge galactic Republic with its population (presumeably) in the hundreds of billions.
I mean, it sounds like a nice big number, but it's not. The Empire has plenty of places to hunt for (presumeably) willing recruits.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Someone told me that STAR WARS DOT COM (da da dah!) has changed it's section on Stormtroopers, and now says that those of the classic trilogy are clones. And apparently they have changed because George Lucus wrote STAR WARS (da da dah!) and told STAR WARS DOT COM (da da dah!) to change things thus.
The person could be lying. And there is no-way at all that I could check such an amazing site out. Pooey.
Posted by Nimrod Pimding (Member # 205) on :
Um, you can't "log" on to starwars.com?
Besides, what the hell are you even doing at home??? You're supposed to be blackmailing "Worlds Apart" into giving me plastic goodies! Snatch their pets, or something.
Reverend: "While this doesn't necessarily mean that all the Stormtroopers seen in the old trilogy were Jango clones, it is certainly implied."
The clones have Jango's voice and accent, the old-school Stormtroopers talk like WWII Montana infantry. And the original Boba Fett sounds like a chainsmoking alcoholic.
Furthermoist, I think that #1, the stormtroopers that were defeated by stonethrowing bears must've experienced the worst humiliation in the history of the corps, in fact worse than a CounterStrike-sniper being stabbed to death by the snipee.
#2, if the little bears were so inclined to barbecue and eat the good guys, I don't want to think about the owners of those helmets the bear-drummer used for laying down the phat beats in ROTJ.
Han Solo: "Mmm, these after-battle chickenspits are delicious!"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nimrod Pimding wrote: "And the original Boba Fett sounds like a chainsmoking alcoholic." Boba may well have been a chainsmoking alcholic! Think about it: He's kind of a loser. He get traumatized by seeing "dad" beheaded and grows up to work in dad's profession, wear dad's clothes, drives dad's car...er...ship... Sounds like half the trailer trash cowboys in the south to me. He probably watches wresteling and listens to country music too.... ...and dies at the hands of a blinded bounty he already caught! Oh yeah, Johnny Cash should write a Boba Fett song.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Psy:
I just checked the database at starwars.com and there is NOTHING mentioned in the Stormtrooper entry about them being clones. There is a separate entry for the Clone Troopers.
And, out of curiosity, why can't you check out the site? You don't have to sign up to look at the stuff there, only to participate in the community forum and things of that nature.
-MMoM Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Because I am a lazy, lazy man.
Posted by Nimrod Pimding (Member # 205) on :
Well, hopefully those rumors will be complete balls anyway.
Posted by Scott Nixon (Member # 540) on :
As far as whether Stormtroopers are clones, I believe the answer is 'yes,' and that it was something established from the very beginning. Someone will need to check this since I don't have this book anymore, but I'm pretty sure I read it in "Star Wars Album" ('album' here meaning 'photo album,' printed by Ballantine books in 1977). Do any of you still have this book?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And because George had everything worked out in 1977, and didn't change any aspects of the story at all in any way whatsoever.
Posted by Scott Nixon (Member # 540) on :
I don't understand your comment, PsyLiam.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Ahh, a newbie, unfamiliar with the intricate ways of Brittish sarcasm. Have fun!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I can't be sure of the definition of "Brittish", but I'd say that Liam's comment was just the generic sort of sarcasm.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Feel the love? Welcome to Flare: home to sarcasm and sharp shiny objects to step on. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Stormtroopers have always been rather peculiar, like the whippingboy of the galaxy. They get shot, fall down shafts or are defeated in humiliating ways. "What? Hey!! You sir are in violation of imperia*BAM*Urk...*thud*"
It would be fun to hear a dialogue between a captured stormtrooper and a rebel soldier, in a prison complex, like during the two weeks up to the stormtrooper's execution or transfer.
Have there been any literature about this in any SW-books?
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
If the 'Troopers in Star Wars Classic were clones, wouldn't they be getting on in years? I mean look at the transition Obi-Wan went through. HE'S OLD! All the clones in AOTC seemed to be the same height (They're clones duh!), yet one Stormtrooper clearly bonks his head on a door in ANH. Unless he was wearing big retro platform shoes...
Young Jedi should be wary of creepy old men wanting to be called "master".
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
thats true.. Obi Wan was around 25 in TPM, and 35 in AoTC, this would make him only in his late 50s in ANH, but i believe Alec Guinness was a bit older than that..
who knows, maybe with the loss of Jango, a new DNA donor will be found? if cloning ended a decade before ANH, it would still take that long for the last batch to mature.. perhaps the last few batches were begun during the gap between AoTC and SWIII: The Shit Hits the Fan, and took ten years to process, and were mature at SW3 +10 years (ANH -10 yrs).. if they were force matured to their early 20s, they would probably only be pushing 30 by ANH
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Everytime this issue has been brought up before AOTC, the official answer has always been "After the Clone Wars had ended, cloning was outlawed galaxywide".
And since there won't be any more development in the post-Endor Star Wars until someone makes Episode VII, which I actually doubt will happen, they have nothing to gain in changing a 20-year old policy.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So the kaminoloids opened a casino? With those long necks they could see your cards!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: So the kaminoloids opened a casino?
Not necessarily. IIRC cloning was outlawed within the Republic. (Which of course soon after became the Empire.) Kamino may exist outside of this political sphere. In fact, it seemed to be implied in AOTC that this was indeed the case.
And obviously, the Kaminoans aren't the only people in the galaxy that know cloning technique---there are also the Spaarti, whose technology the Emperor used to clone himself in later years---they just happen to be considered the best for the job of creating the Army of the Republic at the time the film occurs.
As a sort of possible compromise, I could believe that there might still be a core of cloned soldiers "protecting" the central systems and other important points around the time of the original trilogy, supplemented by draftees/recruits in more remote locations such as the Outer Rim, etc.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think the Spaarti cylenders are just the machinery the Kaminoloids use. "Spaarti" does not have to imply a seperate race, just a particular kind of technology.
....and the next movie will likely invalidate the later novels anyway.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: ...and the next movie will likely invalidate the later novels anyway.
I have no idea what your basis for this statement is, but so far the prequels have done pretty much NOTHING to contradict any "expanded universe" material in any serious way. Every point that's been brought up in relation to this can be fairly easily rationalized.
And as to whether the Spaarti are another race or not is not really important. My point was that the Kaminoans are surely not the only race in the galaxy with the capability to produce clones. They just happen to specialize in this as a planetary industry. There's ZERO reason why---if for some reason the Kamino cloners were to be shut down---clones couldn't still be manufactured from another source, whether illegally or not.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well the silly "expanded universe" stuff after Heir To The Empire (lucas actually personally read and aproved that series) also includes the comics where Mace Windu is still alive and kicking post RTOJ. ...I just don't see Mace surviving the next movie. ....and all this stuff happened before: remember the Han Solo books? The Marvel Comics? All crap now.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: And as to whether the Spaarti are another race or not is not really important. My point was that the Kaminoans are surely not the only race in the galaxy with the capability to produce clones. They just happen to specialize in this as a planetary industry. -MMoM
That much was implied within AotC itself; DEX: "...they're cloners, good ones..."
This line implies that there are other cloners out there who aren't so good and perhaps some that are even better.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What was with all the droid refrences and inuendo in that scene? It seemed that a subplot was dropped from the movie but left in that one part...?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
They did film a scene where Kenobi went to the Jedi analysis droid with the saber dart before Dex, it was dropped because it was somewhat redundant. As for the "droids thinking" line, I suppose it was meant as a tie in with the Kameno's claim that clone are superior to droids because they can think creatively, something that is reinforced in the novelisation during the battle of Geonosis.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Well the silly "expanded universe" stuff after Heir To The Empire (lucas actually personally read and aproved that series) also includes the comics where Mace Windu is still alive and kicking post RTOJ. ...I just don't see Mace surviving the next movie. ....and all this stuff happened before: remember the Han Solo books? The Marvel Comics? All crap now.
I haven't read SW comics in a long time, but in regards to the Mace Windu thing, I think you're probably referring something out of Star Wars Tales, a comic series that is part of the ongoing Infinities line. This collection of material is printed under this logo with the tagline "The World of Endless Star Wars Possibilities" and was begun for the specific purpose of creating a forum for writers to do stories that didn't necessarily jive with the "overall continuity" (LucasBooks' term for 'the canon') of the SW universe. This is a unique part of the Expanded Universe in that it deals with things like alternate timelines or versions of events, farcial stories such as "Skippy the Jedi Droid" and the like, and in general scenarios that might or might not have "actually" happened. It's comparable to DC Comics' Elseworlds line. So whether its stories conflict with the films or with other EU material is a non-issue, since it's not real anyway.
And I'll stand by my earlier statement that the prequels haven't clashed irreconcilably with any part of the legitimate Expanded Universe. You should check out the new version of The Essential Guide to Characters to see how they've managed to ingeniously smooth out some of the apparent minor discrepancies between sources while still maintaining believability.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I gotta pass on that one: a fellow illustrator friend of mine made several illustrations for one of the Star Wars scourcebooks and we were debating how to pose the "Darkforce Dragon" that a five (?) year old Jaycen is fighting off with Luke's lightsaber......that idea really killed any chance of my reading anything past Zahn's initial trilogy (and that was great to read). It seems to me that the expanded universe stuff and the comics and RPG has been given a very free hand to do whatever they want and not much creative oversight as long as it all adds to the hype for the prequels. Just my observation mind you, but Lucas was soooo controling about that kind of thing for years and then the new movies are announced and POOF! A dozen comics/novels/RPG/Props etc. Just to keep SW on everyone's lips.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
A five year old swinging a lightsaber? or a nine year old flying a podracer at 400+ KM/H, and winning?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I think you're probably referring something out of Star Wars Tales, a comic series that is part of the ongoing Infinities line. This collection of material is printed under this logo with the tagline "The World of Endless Star Wars Possibilities" and was begun for the specific purpose of creating a forum for writers to do stories that didn't necessarily jive with the "overall continuity" (LucasBooks' term for 'the canon') of the SW universe. This is a unique part of the Expanded Universe in that it deals with things like alternate timelines or versions of events, farcial stories such as "Skippy the Jedi Droid" and the like, and in general scenarios that might or might not have "actually" happened. It's comparable to DC Comics' Elseworlds line.
This explains the extremely enjoyable story I read where Yoda and Mace Windu are at a diner that gets held up by thieves.. though they didn't go so far as to have him say 'it's the lightsaber that says "bad muthafucker" on it.'
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Da_bang80: A five year old swinging a lightsaber? or a nine year old flying a podracer at 400+ KM/H, and winning?
Good point, but "darkforce dragons" is just so far into fanboy stupidity that I just refuse to waste the time. I could be doing something far more entertaining: like staring into the sun.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Prey you don't get taken away by the "don't stare into the sun"-badger.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
We don't need no steeenking badgers!
Posted by Red XIV (Member # 1278) on :
On the question of whether Stormtroopers are clones, I'm saying no. We know that the Imperial Army and Navy are not clones, since we see the officers' faces. So why should the Stormtrooper Corps be different? And IIRC the black-uniformed officers are promoted Stormtroopers, and clearly they're not clones.
And after the Clone Wars, there's no longer any need to clone soldiers. Palpatine went to Kamino and had clones made because he needed an army built up secretly and relatively quickly. He couldn't gather and train a sufficiently large army through conventional means without people noticing, so he resorted to clones. As that's no longer an issue after the Empire is established, there would be no reason to continue with such expensive procedures.
Moreover, it's just more logical to draw the 'troopers from the general populace of the Empire. If nothing else, it puts millions upon millions of citizens to work for the Empire. If all those Stormtrooper positions are being held by clones, that leaves you with millions upon millions of normal humans who might find other, more seditious things to do with their time.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Holy shit...this takes the prize for olderst ressurected thread of the year thus far.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
No, this does. Although this is a good runner-up.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Fuck it: I'm bringing back the Ambassador thread: I've re-fallen in love with that ship since building a new model of one this week.
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