So, someone somewhere thought there was enough incentive to explore the imperial interim period, and with the Star Wars Live Action series dead until there are "advances in technology and reduction in costs", according to Lucas, this is what we get before Episode VII rolls out.
The trailer struck me as potentially bolder than the old "Clone Wars" show, with potentially less restraint and narrative limits (although I won't hold my breath for any show content with a shred of the balls of the Mos Eisley bar fight).
There are a lot of things the makers can get right with this show if they really want to, try to reconnect to the dangerous and alluring wonder of the very first 1977-movie, unless they are really going for middle-road Nickelodeon entertainment and don't want to ruffle any feathers, just cash a check every month for the coming five years.
Jason Isaacs voicing the main antagonist is a good choice, even if a new Sith is harder to explain away than ever. He has Naziesque imperial riding pants and Sith regalia, an interesting mix, although his lightsaber is the most absurdly impractical design ever to grace the canon. I would have taken a lightfork over that, the previous most-likely-to-kill-the-wielder design.
The main ship, the Ghost, seems promising to me at the face of it, despite not carrying almost any visible tell-tale of being built by Corellian Engineering Corp. Its layout is 50% as well-built as the Corellian YT-2000 from the 1999 space-combat sim "X-Wing Alliance", save for the hastily chopped-off and flat nose section, and the decision to put the gunner ahead of the pilot in a non-octagonal ball turret in the very front, to manually fire at targets. That will be "cool" the first two times, before becoming rote.
I have no specific comment on any of the show characters, all are so incredibly stereotypical Star Wars characters with stereotypical gender adherence it's almost farcical. They might well manage to get the characters to grow beyond their colored armor and cyberpunk crap (welder-goggles. In 2014.), that is for the future to prove.
I feel the detail level of both the ships and the characters in the trailer and Comic-Con snippet look decidedly lower-grade than in the last season of "Clone Wars", very plastic and too brightly lit up, I hope this won't be par for the course. In CW, the capital ships were almost interchangeable with the actual live-action CGI battleships of ROTS, while "Rebels" is two steps closer to LEGO.
Anyone sitting on any other edifying info, outside of the wikipage? Please contrib!
[ August 26, 2014, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I have made a point through the years to avoid letting non-canon into my head, but a few pieces of info got through the old firewall. One of those is the notion that the Falcon was supposed to be a pusher-ship for big linear trains of cargo containers, explaining the funky offset cockpit.
I liked that, which is why designs like the Ghost don't make sense to me. It even has the port and starboard rectangles on the front, but with a glass cockpit sticking out from in between. So what's the design logic? No clue.
But perhaps that speaks more to the fact that it is so difficult to un-see what you see . . . they really should have let the tie-in material sleep for a bit if they wanted a fresh start. As it stands, everyone's brain is still infected with non-George "facts".
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:a pusher-ship for big linear trains of cargo containers
Long haul space truckers? I've seen that in so many other franchises, even Cowboy Bibappu, I'm glad it's not in Star Wars, actually.
quote:I liked that, which is why designs like the Ghost don't make sense to me.
I agree, and it's obvious the original Falcon designer had an idea and a backstory in their head. It was a transport designed to carry stuff, and then modified to also run fast and bite. This new ship is built to be a "Falcon" already from the factory, which shouldn't exist.
If the "Ghost" had been a "de-clawed" bomber ship from some old conflict, then it would have been logical for it to have these obvious "B-25" homage turrets. As it is, it kind of interferes with its function and should have been declared illegal by the empire by now. It seems to have been designed solely to give the main protagonist a "Look mom, I'm achieving my destiny now, pew-pew" platform.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:a pusher-ship for big linear trains of cargo containers
Long haul space truckers? I've seen that in so many other franchises, even Cowboy Bibappu, I'm sort of glad it hasn't been a common sight in Star Wars, actually.
quote:I liked that, which is why designs like the Ghost don't make sense to me.
It is obvious the original Falcon designer had an idea and a context in mind. It was a transport designed to carry stuff, and then semi-illegally modified to also run fast and bite. This new ship is built to be a "Falcon" already from the factory, which shouldn't exist.
If the Ghost had been a de-clawed bomber ship from some old conflict, then it would have been logical for it to have these obvious B-25 homage turrets. As it is, it kind of interferes with its function and should have been declared illegal by the empire by now. It seems to have been designed solely to give the main protagonist a "Look mom, I'm achieving my destiny now, pew-pew" platform.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think the boxy things flanking the cockpit might be for cargo loading- a standardized cargo container might load smoothly into those -and might convievably be ejected in case of emergency or "imperial entanglments".
I have a terrible hunch that there might be a folded up starfighter shoved into one of those boxes- something small like a Jedi Starfighter with the wings somehow pulled in.
I totally agree that the Inquisitor's lightsaber is idiotic- but I have not seen the double blade in screenshots- just a single blade. And the blade id super thin- like a rapier... The series creators have said that the Inquisitor is NOT a Sith, but is a force user.
Maybe some shlub "Emperor's Hand" type of guy- not strong enough to make an apprentice, but too useful to discard. Like Ventress, in some ways I suppose- same species, I believe.
Looking at the lush CG of the final episodes of Season Six makes me despair for the kiddie look of this new series- I fear that it'll be toned waaay down on both the adult stories and the occasional shocking violence: both hallmarks of the Clone Wars series.
I sure hope I'm mistaken- I'd happily eat my words here.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim:
quote:a pusher-ship for big linear trains of cargo containers
Long haul space truckers? I've seen that in so many other franchises, even Cowboy Bibappu, I'm sort of glad it hasn't been a common sight in Star Wars, actually.
I'm not familiar with it elsewhere. It does make sense, though. Unlike an Earth tractor truck where the gearing for towing and such still preclude grand performance, in space a pusher relieved of its bulk would be a high-performance machine.
quote:If the Ghost had been a de-clawed bomber ship from some old conflict, then it would have been logical for it to have these obvious B-25 homage turrets. As it is, it kind of interferes with its function and should have been declared illegal by the empire by now.
Indeed. As strange as it is for an oppressive regime to allow armed citizens, it's even more strange for them to allow armed vehicles. Even Han gets boarded sometimes, we hear, and yet the Falcon clearly wasn't impounded. Perhaps he bribed them . . . perhaps offering them that cargo he dumped.
Of course, in the original trilogy we don't exactly see a lot of normal Imperial traffic. Leia's cruiser was a senatorial vessel and might've had special dispensation to be armed, and the Falcon seemed to be hanging out in the somewhat more lawless Hutt areas when we first see it and presumably intended to skirt authorities on arrival at Alderaan.
Hmm . . .
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Jason:
quote:The series creators have said that the Inquisitor is NOT a Sith, but is a force user.
Maybe some shlub "Emperor's Hand" type of guy- not strong enough to make an apprentice, but too useful to discard. Like Ventress, in some ways I suppose- same species, I believe.
That actually sounds sort of nice, sort of like Christopher Lee's Rochefort in "The Three Musketeers" (1973). He could go well together with those two purple-clothed creepy people the emperor was hanging out with in ROTJ. They've been retconned by later authors into being "inquisitors", jedi hunters, even though the movie said nothing of it and treated them merely as advisors.
I have actually sort of waited for another character of the same race (Pau'an) as Bruce Spence in ROTS. They have those very aesthetic ribbings in their skin, looked very nice.
Just checked, Ventress is from Dathomir. No ribbing.
quote:I have a terrible hunch that there might be a folded up starfighter shoved into one of those boxes- something small like a Jedi Starfighter with the wings somehow pulled in.
This is eerie, Jason, you are directly describing my personal show scenario I started kicking around in my head already six years ago.
My idea was the Corellian YU-410 light freighter, with its two generous cargo holds refitted with front-opening vertical doors, containing a pair of thin and long fighters installed, with automated docking clamps and energy couplings, ready to shoot out when the pretense is dropped. Sort of like the Q-ships of the Napoleonic era and WWI; a war frigate disguised as a merchantman, luring in pirates before dropping the hammer.
[ August 29, 2014, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Like Ventress, in some ways I suppose- same species, I believe.
Males of Ventress's species (Dathomirian): Maul and Savage Opress. Look nothing like the Inquisitor.
I find the Inquisitor looks a lot like the Son from Mortis... Posted by Capt. Kaiser (Member # 10511) on :
Looks like a well designed ship to me Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The Mortis vibe, powerful it is.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
That truck from "Cowboy Bebop" reminds me of the ECS Horizon.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Like Ventress, in some ways I suppose- same species, I believe.
Males of Ventress's species (Dathomirian): Maul and Savage Opress. Look nothing like the Inquisitor.
I find the Inquisitor looks a lot like the Son from Mortis...
Yeah, you're right- and I wonder if they'll make any references to the Mortis storyline in the new series- in the last couple of Season Six Clone Wars episodes, Lucas and the gang established some neat cosmology for how the Force works- a little trippy, but neat nonetheless: The Living Force feeds the Cosmic Force (I guess when people die) and the Cosmic Force in turn enpowers the Living Force- with very few people able to retain their identity after death.
No clue how that works with the Mortis stuff- or why The Inquisitor looks like the son. Wouldn't it be great if this whackadoodle turns out to BE the Son- reborn and unaware of his past life. Regardless, Vader should recognize the resemblance!
HOPEFULLY this is not an instance of "managment liked the look of it so we had to make this look like that"- the NX-01/Akira thing.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: HOPEFULLY this is not an instance of "managment liked the look of it so we had to make this look like that"- the NX-01/Akira thing.
Quoted for truth.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
A: Front laser turret can be used in fixed position by the pilot aiming the ship balistically. Won't always require a spunky farmboy to operate while saying "pew-pew" and going "woohoo" every time he hits something.
B: The droids swear profusely under word-scrambling filters.
C: The twi'lek woman seems to have some personality. Hope it's not all by-the-numbers Ripley homage.
D: They actually worked hard to make the gassy space explosion look ANH-y. It's a nice touch, hope it's not just bells-n-whistles for the crowds, but that they will really try to go classic with the whole operation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
When does this air? I keep thinking that September seems forever away, then realise that it's already September and somehow everything still seems forever away!
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
October 3
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
It's a big change from TCW, and not just because stormtroopers are now as useful as battle droids.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I think it was quite fun and had a lot of heart.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
So "Spark of Rebellion" wasn't bad. Really, my only beef with it was that the Wookies looked awful in the new art style.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah it was pretty good. I liked how they incorporated an unused concept of the at-st into show as a new design. If I recall, that design was also used in the old Star Wars comics by Marvel.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Almost ALL the Rebels designs are unused Ralph McQuarrie designs- the stubby TIE fighters, the less-than-detailed Star Destroyer (ug.) the walker, the weird childlike speeder-bike trooper helmets, etc. Really, only the Ghost is a new design.
Quickie review:
So I caught the first episode today- it was pretty good for a first episode. I like the hero cast, the hero ship (Ghost) and the animation, while not up to CW standards for movment, is still close.
THE GOOD: The hero cast are all pretty cool- excepting the annoying droid.
The Mandolorian babe on the ghost seems to be the daughter of Bo-Katan Kryze- her name is Sabine and her armor and blasters are the same make/model as her mommy's. I kinda think EVERYTHING about her is a re-use- her face, armor and guns all look to be re-colored versions of the Deathwatch commando (her mom, I presume). Anyway, I like her!
The main Jedi (Keevan?) in in a relationship (with his Twilik pilot)! YEAH! Good to see he can maintain his Jedi beliefs while not following the same failed restrictions on attachments.
The ship is pretty great looking.
The BAD: The Stormtroopers and TIE Fighters are grossly ineffectual- we're talking "Scoby-Doo" level non-threatening villians. Stormtroopers also dont appear to be clones in this- they have a different voice than the clone troopers (BOO!).
Imperial officers are all corrupt and two-dimensional.
TIE fighters blow up into white clouds with little debris.
There is some slapstick type humor with fails badly.
The sound effects seem weak- particularly the turret-blasters on the Ghost- it's distracting and really timid sounding. Weird- the turrets seem identical to those on the CW Y-Wings- why not use the same sound effect from that?
The lightsaber effect is different and kinda blury when it's moved- maybe a nit closer to the way Obi Wan's looked in ANH, but not clean like the CW look.
THE UGLY: The new" TIE Fighters look like the old Kenner Toys and are obviously a huuuuge step down from CW era fighters- slower and less armed.
The Star Destroyer is AWFUL. No two ways about it- it's an undetailed hot mess- the old ERTL model is more detailed (and that's really saying something!). The proportions are also off in places and the sidewalls are not recessed- they are flush with the hull and there is only a center strip of light greebling- it looks like a snap-kit for kids was scanned and used.
OVERALL RATING: B- a solid start and it makes me want to watch more, even though it's obviously geared to a younger audience than CW was, it shows promise- unfortunately, it looks a lot like the budget was slashed from the CW levels- you'll see that the cities look deserted (less models) and the overall feel is kinda...fanfic. Hopefully this will improve of there is a good viewer reaction, but no one seems to understand Disney's decisions with cartoon media these days.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Minor comments:
quote:Stormtroopers also dont appear to be clones in this- they have a different voice than the clone troopers (BOO!).
Like in the OT, then. Neat!
quote:TIE fighters blow up into white clouds with little debris.
quote:The Star Destroyer is AWFUL/The sound effects seem weak- particularly the turret-blasters on the Ghost- it's distracting and really timid sounding/Hopefully things will improve if there is a good viewer reaction, but no one seems to understand Disney's decisions with cartoon media these days.
Inclined to agree.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
In OT, TIE fighters blew up into LARGE white clouds with little/no debris- no so here. In this, it just looks like a video game effect- or like a CG effect from a decade ago.
But I get that they're trying for an ANH look- it's a baaaad choice though. Trying hard to match effects from over 30 years ago is a dumb move- it'd be like a new Trek series using VFX from TMP- fine for models, BAD for effects!
Somehow this all seems low-budget compared with TCW.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I wonder if the look of the Star Destroyers is supposed to indicate an intermediate design between the Venator and the Star Destroyers of the OT. These designs would be easier to swallow if that was the case. Also good eye on the Mandalorian chick, I didn't notice all those details. Although her Phoenix/Bird symbol is similar to the Rebel Alliance crest. Some foreshadowing I'm sure.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I had the same notion on the Star Destroyers, but if that were the case, there's plenty of known Star Destroyer variations they could have gone with- instead of giving us what looks like a snap-tight model kit or something from a Lego set.
The sidewalls are what bother me the most (from what little we've seen thus far)- they are not recessed at all and detail there is minimal. It. Looks. Awful. Why put such obvious effort into The Ghost but not the SD? They have to know they'll be using the model over and over...
Again, it smacks of a tighter budget that TCW- as insane as that sounds with Disney owning everything!
Meh. Maybe it'll take off with the fans and we'll get a better SD model down the road- maybe even some fan favorites like the Intridictor (unless that's considered part of the now-non-canon EU?).
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Perhaps they are that old Victory class star destroyer? The one before the Imperator.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I suppose you could say it is- but really, it's a very poor representation of Ralph McQuarrie's painting. Really, ALL the designs for Rebels are directly taken from McQuarrie's original SW paintings- the big crewman from The Ghost is actually McQuarrie's concept for Chewbacca- there's even a line of action figures based on Ralph's concepts and one of concept-Chewie that looks veeeerrry familliar: http://www.rebelscum.com/tac21McChewie.asp
It's like when someone takes a TNG Trek design and makes a TOS version of it- it comes across as an homage, but never looks like it belongs in that era. So too with the Rebels SD- and the multi-colored lights certainly dont help matters- nor does the utter lack of visible turbolasers! WTH?!?
Really, I think the design would still be okay if they shortened the neck and gave it it's turbolasers- it's frankly idiotic to leave those off- even if they are not present in the McQuarrie painting, their absense is glaring- we KNOW the Venator has them and the ISD has them- it's dumb for this version to break design lineage by not being armed.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Actually, if you look at the more distant ISD in the "RMQ" file then compare with Rebels, the latter simply adds notches a la the film ISD (interrupting the triangle), but otherwise looks about the same.
In any case, I approve of hearkening back and such, but that should've been a prototype or something, not the production model.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Anyone got a link to where I can watch Rebels online? Unfortunately, the series where I live is ONLY available to watch with an extra "Disney XD" subscription- or by paying for $1.50 each episode for the privilege of watching them on Comcast's "On Demand" service.
Scam-a-licious.
Thus far, I've only been able to watch the premier episode...
BUT, I'm listening to the excellent audiobook "A New Dawn" by John Jackson Miller- the writer behind several SW books and Dark Horse's amazing Dark Times series, which, like Rebels, takes place between trilogies.
A New Dawn takes places shortly (a year?) prior to the first episode of Rebels. There's some interesting stuff on Count Vidian- including how he'd been a billionaire industrialist and used his vast wealth to cyborg himself out- and to purchase his "Count" title.
The audiobook is dfinitely worth picking up!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Just google search for 'star wars rebels streaming'. There are some anime sites that have the show up, just don't expect it to be HQ.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Whoops double post
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Just because it's on Netflix and because I wanted some background noise while building a SW model, I put on season one of Clone Wars- I was blown away by how much better even season one looks compared to Rebels.
Disapointing- I'm convinced the budget on Rebels is far far less than CW had- which seems crazy! You'd think Disney would want as much SW visibility as possible- and for the quality of the show to be the best possible too.
Today they announced that the new movie is titled STAR WARS: The Force Awakens. Sucktastic.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I wish they would do something about these proportions, make them more human. It's getting too chibi.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: I wish they would do something about these proportions, make them more human. It's getting too chibi.
I think it's that their rendering software does not really do forced perspective properly - the hand remains the same relative size as though it was next to her body. When her arms are at her side, the proportions are much better- though non-hero females in CW (overall) certainly have big noggins- Ventress, Ashoka (older render), Barris seem okay- Luminara has a bit of a bobble head, but the habit she wears kinda adds to that.
Bur what the heck- she's not human- and it's silly that every species looks so alike, with the same proportions and such. Just pretend she hails from a world of big head/little hand people, with tiny door handles and big hats....
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Saw "Droids in Distress" and "Fighter Flight" the other day.
Threepio looked like he was made out of plastic.
And somebody needs to throw Chopper out an airlock.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Why make a new model for 3P0? Weird. Damn Peculliar, really.
Did it seem that the droids had been memory wiped? I'm wondering exactly how much personality is retained when that is done? Obviously something remians- or else the droids somehow managed to wiggle out of getting wiped... But that makes no sense either- it would mean 3P0 and R2 knew Luke was related to their former master- and knew Kenobi- and said nothing.
So the personality is retained when the memory is wiped. Maybe personality and learned skills are retained while details of events are lost? That works for me- it would retain the value of an older droid (from learned skills and practical experiences) but would remove a droid's attachment to it's former owner.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Did it seem that the droids had been memory wiped?
Tough to tell.
Threepio was, well, Threepio. His behavior was exactly the same, but he had no dialogue specifically saying that he had been memory wiped or not.
Artoo, being incomprehensible, is even tougher to gauge. There was a scene towards the end of the episode with Bail Organa having a private "conversation" with Artoo, revealing that Organa was having Artoo spy on the Ghost crew, seemingly as a step towards forming the Rebellion proper.
So, until we get some hard evidence, I would guess we are to take Organa's command at the end of Revenge of the Sith literally: Threepio was wiped, Artoo was not.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Also, did anyone else notice that Threepio had a silver leg piece? That didn't happen until ESB...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Having watched up until episode 4, I have to say Rebels feels more mature than CW ever was. It has less cuddling, higher stakes, and more dramatic heft to it, ANH-style, with a stronger emphasis on the characters and the budding story. The birth of the Rebellion has a lot more potential for landgrabs and milestones, than to see the slow dismantling of the Republic in CW.
Very early on, CW detached itself from being a personal story to which people could relate, in several ways; narrative focus never stayed on one person for long, jumping between Ahsoka, Anakin, Obi-Wan, the droids, Padme, even frigging Jar-Jar. It felt to me like an ensemble failure, just like TPM was; lots of babbling heads but no star. The time span of being set between AOTC and ROTS was also very limiting and frustrating ("soon all this will burn").
Secondly, I could never get over that corny announcer's voice used to catch people up to speed, it made all the events and plots sound undramatic and humdrum, like "Ahsoka must try to escape her 20th kidnapping", followed by "We now follow Ventress, who's having a monumental crisis of faith", and then "Will the droids be able to find enough fruit for Padme's party", all in the same 1970's Game Show Host voice. Reminds me of that awful and irritating "Star Wars Christmas Special " voice. That voice represents everything Star Wars tried not to be; folksy and wholesome.
Thirdly, if Ahsoka was supposed to be the main character, or the "everyman" character through whose eyes viewers could view and understand the universe (like Samwise or Bilbo), she failed massively; by being very alien-looking and with a Rumpelstiltskin appearance, and jumping from dutiful, virtuous girlscout to incorrigible, scampering runt several times even in a single episode. Only a very small segment of the audience could identify with her (adolescent girls and some boys, between 9-15) or take interest in her miniscule and almost invisible character development (her head tufts grew a bit between seasons, and she broke down in tears less often).
More importantly, she was introduced when she had already passed all the Temple tests and built her saber, the only things many fans were interested in. Instead she was trudging along as a witless Padawan scribe/assistant. No one knows what a Jedi cadet goes through, or how they start out (Yoda's regimen in TESB was a crash-course) and the ships Ahsoka flew had neither character, sentimental value, nor interesting features.
In the case of "Rebels", not only do they emulate the sound effects and special effects of ANH, but also the power balance and narrative focus of characters; Ezra is the thieving orphan, we see him coming, he also has Force potential, but he has a long journey ahead of him, full of interesting exploration and Jedi learning, and he gets to hang out in an analogue of The Falcon, every fan's dream.
Long story short: for now, I'm giving this show a hopeful thumbs-up. I have had to amend my opinion on the visual look and aesthetics of Rebels, I think the new rendition effects such as glistening Stormtrooper armor and detailed ship interiors actually are better made than in CW (all armor looked made of rubber), and facial expressions/non-verbal communication has stepped up a notch. Some characters, though, like Sabine, still have faces which are a bit expressionless and static to be able to read. She works better with helmet on, in my opinion.
I also thought Jason Isaacs made the Inquisitor a formidable antagonist, not too glib like Ventress of CW season 1-4, nor one-dimensional/boring/stuffy like Dooku, CW all seasons. The Inquisitor seems to prefer some of that gentleman irony of Vader's in ANH/TESB, with a little aristocratic derision borrowed from Lucius Malfoy, no doubt. And his weird lightsaber actually has useful features, which is a nice change.
I really enjoy the overall thinner lightsaber blades, like in ANH, feels more dangerous. The thick, rubbery blades in CW could sometimes make a duel seem like a fight between airstrip signal men.
Although the Stormtroopers are very weak and easily disposable, instead of bleeding and suffering, at least they are people, and not Temuera Morrison bores. And, most importantly, not slapstick battle droids.
The Ghost also grew on me fast, the front silhouette of the canopies and the beefy bow section give it a very imposing look when landing, and the fact that it can pick up cargo with loading clamps is very useful in past and future scenes.
Sure, the show can still go down in flames due to mismanagement, but I think it has a much greater chance of going somewhere than sputtering out in a confused, aimless whimper, like CW.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Looking at that screenshot again, I am amazed that they understood already in 1977 how important it is that spaceship interiors don't have walls meeting the floors straight, which would've made Tantine IV look like a classroom or an old "Doctor Who" set. Curved wall ends and ceilings give that futuristic sci-fi feeling.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...1970's Game Show Host voice."
I always thought that was meant to be a 1940s newsreel announcer voice.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
TSN, that's exactly what it was intended as- remember, Star Wars (CW in particular) is Lucas' sci fi version of the old movie serials he loved as a kid- if you go to starwars.com, there's a great interview with the writers explaining how CW had stories from all of Lucas' inspirations for Star Wars- the Godzilla/Zillobeast, the Seven Samuari/bounty hunters defending the village, zombies/ Geonosian worm parasites, Sink the Bizmark/Destroy Melavolence, etc.
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Looking at that screenshot again, I am amazed that they understood already in 1977 how important it is that spaceship interiors don't have walls meeting the floors straight, which would've made Tantine IV look like a classroom or an old "Doctor Who" set. Curved wall ends and ceilings give that futuristic sci-fi feeling.
Soooo right- recall that back then, you had film makers hiring NASA engineers as consultants- Ridly Scott notably did that for Alien, and of course it all started with Stanley Kubrick's obsesive attention to details on 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Gotta say, NIM, I don't agree with you at all about Rebels being more "mature" than CW- everything I've seen really seems to be toned down- there's very little people wherever they go- even to an Imperial base, it all seems deserted. I think that's an indication of a seriously smaller budget than CW, which often had crowded streets and many background characters. The effect makes it seem more like an old 80's cartoon- where only the bare minimum of characters would be in any episode to save animation costs. You'd think that they could simply use 3D character models from CW- they made a LOT of background people and tweaked (clothes mainly) them for whatever planet was being used.
Also annoying is that several stormtroopers have had the ol' "GI Joe" treatment- where they should not have survived yet somehow do- despite that, there's also this slapstick violence with the stormtroopers that makes them seem even less effective a fighting force than in the movies. The Imperial officers are laughably lame- not so much the guy with the porkchop sideburns, but the rest are charitures of the OT's officers. I know it's a cartoon, but the officer running the training camp had a head so stretched as to look inhuman.
I dont know- I love the ghost and the hero charcater designs (except the kid's anime-blue hair), but the episodes I've seen come arcoss as halfhearted compared to the cinematic quality CW had in it's last three or four seasons.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:Gotta say, NIM, I don't agree with you at all about Rebels being more "mature" than CW- everything I've seen really seems to be toned down- there's very little people wherever they go- even to an Imperial base, it all seems deserted.
That's not how I gauge maturity in a dramatic presentation. I meant that the horrible revelation of Luminara Unduli, and the body count of Stormtroopers and others may point to an ambition to go back to Original Trilogy levels of drama. At least that's what I hope.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim:
quote:Gotta say, NIM, I don't agree with you at all about Rebels being more "mature" than CW- everything I've seen really seems to be toned down- there's very little people wherever they go- even to an Imperial base, it all seems deserted.
That's not how I gauge maturity in a dramatic presentation. I meant that the horrible revelation of Luminara Unduli, and the body count of Stormtroopers and others may point to an ambition to go back to Original Trilogy levels of drama. At least that's what I hope.
Ah. I unfortunately have not seen that episode, so I'm judging off the four that I have seen- most recently the one where they waltz out of the Imperial Academy- which had under a dozen personell from the looks of it.
I'll try to find the Luminara ep online and post in about it.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Pretty sure I'm caught up now.
The show's setting up a few story arcs; notably Ezra's parents and the identity of Fulcrum.
I find it hard to care too much about Ezra's parents considering how Ezra is my least favorite character on the show. No, wait, scratch that. Second-least favorite. I still can't stand Chopper.
I am very curious about Fulcrum, though. The voice is highly distorted, and whoever is voicing him/her is going uncredited for now. I'm personally hoping Fulcrum winds up being Ahsoka Tano, if for no other reason than I still want to see a Vader/Tano lightsabre fight.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Yes, Chopper isn't very nuanced or interesting, is he? Just a rolling slapstick-button. R2 were interesting right out of the gates, by saying stuff you only understood through conjecture of Threepio's responses. Chopper just shits on everything.
I watched the season-finale yesterday, was very disappointed that they held off on telling Ezra about his parents in the last seconds of the episode, giving you nothing to look forward to next season, no cliffhanger or twist realization. A wasted opportunity, replaced by Ezra moping. I hope it gets better.
I still feel the stakes are higher and the show narrative much more compelling than CW, because they are hunted now, and must be on their toes.
In comparison, Ahsoka was much too pampered and cared-for in her first four seasons, she always had the cosy Jedi Temple to bunk in, and the collected wisdom of three generations of Masters from which to receive counsel. Ezra has only his small crew. More interesting, to me.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The season's not over. They're just off for a month, like pretty much any other show this time of year.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
So I think this is the first instance we've seen an auxiliary, non-hyperspace capable vessel launch from its mothership during hyperspace travel, yes? Makes one wonder if a non-Force user would've been able to handle the re-entry to normal space.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
And now we have yet another unconventional lightsabre. And it seems Yoda has gotten quite powerful in the Force if he can project his essence from Dagobah to Lothal. Makes one wonder if he regularly keeps an eye on all the temples the Empire hasn't discovered yet?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Chopper just shits on everything.
It's like they modeled him on members of this board Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
The Season One finale aired last night. Between the revelation that Fulcrum is indeed Ahsoka Tano, and the fact that the Emperor has now sent in Vader (in a non-speaking cameo here) to deal with the rebels, I may just get that Tano/Vader fight after all.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I was excited to hear that Ashoka pops up again -- I've caught a few episodes, but eager to see the whole thing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Maybe we'll learn what became of Ventress...I know they plan to release a novel of Ventress and Quinlan Voss getting together, but I'll believe it when I see/read it.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Got around to watching "The Siege of Lothal" yesterday. Not sure if this counts as the proper Season 2 premiere, but whatever.
Vader is freaking awesome in this. He mops the floor with Kanan and Ezra, and then proceeds to take on an entire Rebel fleet alone... and win.
Following the events of the episode, Vader is now aware that Ahsoka is alive and working with the rebels. Although Ahsoka denies knowing who the Sith Lord is, it's pretty obvious from her reactions that she likewise now knows Anakin Skywalker lives.
Another Inquisitor, huh? Did we ever get a name for the first one? This is gonna get confusing fast if none of them ever get names.
Unexpected Lando is unexpected.
All-in-all, a good episode. From what I understand, it's gonna be a while before any more new episodes, but I'm psyched. And that fight between Ahsoka Tano and Darth Vader that I keep wanting to see seems to be more and more inevitable.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I did not enjoy the Vader-Kanan-Ezra fight, it felt very dumb. Vader could have killed them like insects and still let the smuggler ship flee and continue his plan, but he had to grandstand to appease his vanity, the classic "Terminator grabs hero and harmlessly tosses him ten feet again and again (even though his mission is to kill), until hero can find a Deus Ex Machina in the form of a trapdoor button or tag-team distraction" trope. Deliberately letting Kanan and Ezra live didn't serve Vader's purposes at all, just the show's. The whole showdown could've been handled much better.
Also, Ezra never once thought to use his saber stun-function, which is a major tactical no-brainer.
I wonder what this says for the future. Vader can't die, so I worry that all the coming duels with Ahsoka will be drawn-out saber-lock conversations, until he finally kills her three seasons from now, or she "sacrifices" herself to allow Ezra to escape, and will then talk to him via Force-phone the remainder of the series.
Sorry if I sound cynical, I'm just so tired of paint-by-the-numbers adventure series at this point.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I hear ya, Nim- I missed the entirety of season one but just bought it on Blu Ray this week and caught up.
It's definitely a much lower budget show than Clone Wars was- a much shorter season, much less in terms of textures and details on everything and the whole series takes place (for the most part) on Lothar -which I'm hoping changes now! It's pretty weird that they made new models for the Rodians and Ithorians- both looked great in CW, but less so here. It's like the difference between Tom & Jerry cartoons when MGM made them to be shown before movies and when Filmation made cartoons for TV.
After watching Rebels, I was surprised at my lack of...that Star Wars awesome. I went back and popped in season one of Clone Wars and got back that sense of magic and adventure straight away and started thinking on what was missing.
Visually, I think the decision to switch from widescreen to fullscreen was a disaster- it really makes Rebels seem like a kids-only cartoon.
Despite everyone online seeming to loathe Chopper, I like him- he's a total jerk and that's refreshing on a ship SO full of do-gooders.
It was nice to see some ships from CW still in service- like the Imperial version of the Light Cruiser! I was happy to see they made the once-pointless tuning fork at the ship's bow into a docking clamp (though don't ask me how!) for the Assault Shuttle.
Some ships are badly proportioned, it seems- the Assault Shuttle in particular is much too small in several scenes- like when Vader exits in the season finale. The scale on the Gozanti Cruiser has changed as well- becoming much larger- but that I can choc up to it being a new (and larger) model.
The short wing TIE fighters are grating on my nerves- they all look like the old Kenner toys.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Visually, I think the decision to switch from widescreen to fullscreen was a disaster- it really makes Rebels seem like a kids-only cartoon."
Rebels is in 4:3? I don't know how I could possibly have not noticed that.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm watching the episode of CW where Ashoka has her lightsaber stolen and goes on a merry chase with a Terelian Jango Jumper. Maaaan. The cinematic quality of that episode blows away anything we've seen in Rebels.
And that's odd- considering how SW is owned by Disney now, you'd think the budget would have gone up, not down. Particularly in a year with so much Star Wars hype!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Rebels has about a third of the viewership of TCW on its best day, so in that regard the slashed budget makes sense.
I've actually given up on it, myself. TCW had its ... youthful elements, shall we say, but Rebels is rather more definitely a kid's show. I'm kind of surprised we don't see more of the GI Joe thing where no aircraft could be harmed without a parachute also coming out.
That said, I think it keeps to the Star Wars spirit more than most of the new Disney canon, but given that it's a new canon and not the old Lucas one, I just can't bring myself to care as much.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I wonder if they'll tie season two into The Force Awakens the way Marvel did Agents of SHIELD into the movies.... Of course the challenge is greater because there's a huge time gap, but I'm sure it'll be possible to some extent.
I don't think there even IS "New Canon" for Star Wars- certainly Marvel has said the comics are "story first"- the newspeak for "our writers won't bother to read each other's stories and our editors do nothing".
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Sorry to hear about Rebels' low ratings. I recall a similar issue with the Tron Legacy cartoon. It was good, but nobody was watching. Rebels isn't all kiddie though. I mean the Lieutenant Governor of Lothal was killed in a terrorist attack staged by the Empire to scapegoat the Rebels. Tarkin had the Inquisitor impale two officials for not doing more to stop the Rebels. The Freddie Prince Jedi was baited into a trap using the dead body of his master. Not exactly kid stuff.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yet...it's lacking any seriousness overall- particularly regarding the deaths of stormtroopers. In CW, the supposedly disposable clonetroopers had real depth and their deaths were often shocking (see the death of Echo for instance), yet in Rebels, we get...nothing.
You'd think the whole crew would have serious PTSD by now from all the people they've mowed down (or spaced with explosives)- though I don't think Ezra had personally killed anyone outright, the stormtrooper he shot off the bridge in the series opener did die (indirectly) as result of his actions.
You'd think there would be...I don't know, some agnst about the troopers on Ezra's part- after all, he (briefly) went to the academy with a bunch of the new recruits. He's just a kid doing all these (for want of a better word) terrorist actions- and the people he's looking at as his new family seem a-okay with it all.
I guess Disney does not want a conversation where an adult explains that it's okay to kill bad guys if it's for a good cause. That way lie madness (and potential lawsuits).
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Jason:
quote:though I don't think Ezra had personally killed anyone outright
This is also deviating from Jedi doctrine, in Anakin's padawan career he killed hordes of aliens and enemies (not counting the tusken binge-slaughter), he was trained to uphold the law and pacify enemies through any means necessary. General Kenobi (Leia's words) maimed two aliens in Mos Eisley, if not killed them. There is a very no-nonsense line drawn in the sand for Jedi, they don't compromise when it comes to the safety of their subjects (Luke in this case).
Ezra seems to be getting the wrong training in a time of war, he needs to face a situation where he has to make a decision or others will die due to his inaction. He has been given a lightsaber but with the implication to only use it as a door-opener and a parry stick, it seems. So MacGyverish.
Really looking forward to "Star Wars: Underworld more and more now. Surely the writers will be forced to have balls if they wish to compete with "Walking Dead" and "Game of Thrones", right? If Deadwood and BSG are inspirations, as McCallum says...
Also, this. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The droid they designed for the game turned up in the Clone Wars as part of Fett's cre of bounty hunters- so that's something (?).
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
If I recall, 1313 was going to be an M rated game, a first for Star Wars. Lots of adult themes and violence. As for Rogue One, can we wait for the first film to come out and see if its good? I mean Disney is putting all their eggs in one basket for Star Wars. There's always a chance, however small, Episode VII could suck the big one.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Suck the big one? Ot depends on two things- first, how far Abrams takes the characters from their OT versions and second, how far he changes the overall SW universe conceptually.
SW fans do NOT want the concept altered- recall the awful midicloreans/ Anakin is Space Jesus/ drouds could rebel discarded ideas from the prequels.
And of course, fans want the OT characters to be the same- though its been almost forty years, no one wants to see...I don't know- a bitter divorced Han and Leia for example.
But my money is still on Kylo Ren being Luke Skywalker under the mask. He's a lefty like Mark Hammil and dresses like Vader. Expect fanboy outrage.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Funny, I had the same notion. What better way to infiltrate a wannabe Empire than to become a wannabe Vader. Although a recent shot of Hamil as Skywalker would seem to discount this. He looks like Santa.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Funny, I had the same notion. What better way to infiltrate a wannabe Empire than to become a wannabe Vader. Although a recent shot of Hamil as Skywalker would seem to discount this. He looks like Santa.
I think we may see Santa Skywalker in holos or possibly in some flashback to the time between the end of RTOJ and the appearance of Darth Jr.
As to motivations, I think maybe there has to be some...darkside incarnation. Some physical manifestation- and maybe Luke has embraced that, becoming something more akin to the Force Wielders from CW. After all, Anakin was supposed to become the balance in that equation, but it fell to Luke. That's assuming Abrams ever watched the CW stuff- or cares in any way. He sure did not with Trek.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
As far as the Disney canon sucking generally, I was amused by something recently.
See, in the old Expanded Universe, the Empire survived for ages under assorted Moffs, warlords, Emperor clones, et cetera, eventually dwindling into Remnants and such. I always poked fun at this concept since the end of the RotJ novel says "the Empire was dead" and of course the film shows fireworks, statue-toppling, and similar celebrations on Coruscant. My joke was that there must've been stormtroopers just off-camera and that the revelers were shot just after the scene ended.
Well, I never expected them to actually run with that, but in the novel Star Wars: Aftermath they actually do.
Fail.
(That book also has a comet supposedly theatening numerous star systems on a swath through the whole galaxy. Ancient Jedi group together and some literally kill themselves to destroy it from afar while it is still far from populated space. This is rather stupid, since they have literally thousands or millions of years to come up with a plan assuming a non-relativistic comet. So much for any trace of hard sci-fi ... at least we could pretend before.)
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
How is that a fail? If there's a fail, it's in the movie and novel. A spontaneous galaxy-wide collapse of the Empire is ridiculously implausible. There's way too many people who would be invested in the continuing of the existing system and want to hold on to power.
(I loved that Robot Chicken sketch... "What do you mean, we can't fight back?!")
It may be a fairly obvious solution as far as retcons go, but it's also the most sensible and IMO the most likely to happen.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The comet thing is a giant black hole-sized failure of even third grade science. Joss Whedon did the same stupid thing years ago in X-Men where aliens made a giant bullet and fired it at Earth..fuck, it was astonishingly bad.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Sorry, I was referring just to the Stormtroopers on Coruscant. I agree the comet part sounds ridiculously stupid.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: How is that a fail? If there's a fail, it's in the movie and novel. A spontaneous galaxy-wide collapse of the Empire is ridiculously implausible. There's way too many people who would be invested in the continuing of the existing system and want to hold on to power.
Setting aside the novelization's dead Empire and explicit mention of Palpatine's evil having held everything together, I agree that the lesser evil overlords would not simply scurry off, generally speaking. There are many factors that could carry things in many directions.
But to actually have all the revelers literally shot down as soon as the movie camera turned away is just crap writing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think a far better idea would be for the far-flung Empire consolidating power in the wealthy Core systems- drawing in their fleets and making key systems impervious (by SW's standards, anyway) to attack. That would leave the Outer Rim, Mid-Rim and whatever else to chaos- which the Rebels would have to pull together without the Core systems and their wealth, industry and trade.
They could have made the galaxy a FAR worse place by crippling trade and infrastructure. How many worlds would have been dependant on trade to even feed themselves? We sure saw Naboo needed trade just to get by.
And not only would the Empire be an ever-present threat, but not all the freed worlds would want to become part of a New Republic. Certainly the former Seperatist worlds would pass- they lost the war and were crushed when Republic became Empire.
Lastly, you'd get warlords and planetary/system dictatorships- and crime! Holy shit, you'd have the crimelords expand into the only government in some systems.
Add to alllll that, there might well be a rise in Force users- suppressed through mandatory testing during the Empire- for both light and dark sides.
They could have had a sorta Iraq parallel to match the obvious political overtones Lucas was adding in the prequels.
Instead we get braindead super-comet and an ongoing internet joke. Let me guess- all life on Endor was destroyed by debris from the Death Star?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I don't know where "The New Order" has hidden during the years after Endor, but it's probably far out of the way. I don't think Hamill is Ren, though, they've shown Ren without the mask, walking in snow with Snow Troopers, and he's tall, thin, and wiry. Everything Hamill isn't. rimshot
I hope the actor playing Ren is really good, because so far, for me, the picture makes him look like an angstier version of "The MotherFucker" from Kickass 2.
[ October 09, 2015, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Ichabod Crane, Sith Lord.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I hope he's a new character- in every way. We don't need "Vader lite". I'd much prefer someone more like Thrawn- that inspires loyalty instead of fear and intimidation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I hope he's a new character- in every way. We don't need "Vader lite". I'd much prefer someone more like Thrawn- that inspires loyalty instead of fear and intimidation.
I wish he wasn't a human- hell, I wish got Thrawn!
I'd settle for something exotic....I'd love to see a Sith wookie. Or Min Cal- those big eyes corrupted by the dark side...
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