posted
I was curious if anyone knew if all Starfleet starships could fire quantum torpedoes?
I am of two minds about this issue, so I was wondering if anyone had seen any Treknology information written in the DS9 Technical Manual, Star Trek: The Magazine, or some other licensed techno-babble source about this issue.
On the one hand, I am thinking that since the Enterprise 1701-D, Voyager, and Defiant have been shown in TNG and DS9 too launch science probes of different dimensions and configurations, and because the size of the Quantum Torpedo Mk I is just slightly larger than the Photon Torpedo Mk VI, I am thinking that all Federation starships can fire this weapon through their torpedo tubes.
My thinking is that the rate of fire (torpedoes per minute) differs from starship class to starship class, with some offering burst fire modes while others are incapable of burst or rapid fire modes).
The reason that I feel that we did not see other Federation starships, besides the Lakota and the Defiant , fire this weapon in Deep Space Nine was because not enough time had passed to allow deployment of this weapon fleet-wide, or perhaps due to its relative newness it was difficult to manufacture in large quantities or quickly in large quantities.
In Star Trek: First Contact, because the weapon was relatively new, and perhaps that the rest of fleet had already used the most powerful torpedoes in their weapons magazines, the Enterprise 1701-E is the only starship seen to launch quantum torpedoes at the Borg cube, while the rest of the fleet, including the Nebula-class Endeavour and the Akira-class Thunderchild launch the familiar orange/red photon torpedoes.
Further, in the {i]Star Trek: The Movies - Sketchbook[/i], all callouts for torpedo tubes are labelled "photon" torpedo.
Next, in the Voyager epsiode "Endgame" we see Voyager fire the newly acquired transphasic torpedo without visible changes, or mentions of changes, to her torpedo tubes.
Then on the other hand, in Nemesis we see the Enterprise 1701-E fire quantum torpedos only from the launcher located above the captain's yacht (Cousteau), while all the other tubes seem to be firing only red/orange photon torpedoes.
Then the Star Trek: Starship Spotter, specifically points out in the specifications of the Ent-E and the Defiant that both of these ships have Mk 95 Direct-Fire Quantum/Photon Torpedo Tubes installed while the Voyager just has the Mk 95 Direct-Fire Photon Torpedo Tubes installed.
So what do people think?
I am leaning more to the idea that all starships with torpedo tubes can fire the quantum torpedo, the only difference is the fire-rate and that some ships have been more lucky at getting quantities of the the weapon over others. Is this idea reasonable? Or should we restrict the weapon to only the most modern classes?
Any licensed information that supports one idea over the other?
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
The only three ships that have been verified to use quantum torpedoes have been the E-E, the Defiant (both incarnations) and the Lakota. That is because usually we cannot get confirmation unless we hear dialogue, and we can't hear dialogue unless there are heroes aboard. And out of the hero ships of recent Trek, only two were in a position to use quantums...
It stands to reason that with sufficient dedication, Starfleet can install hardware that can do anything and everything. The problems of firing q-torps and p-torps from the same tube certainly cannot be insurmountable. What you should consider for your fiction is the dramatic impact.
Is your ship better off dramatically if she suffers from the limitation that it cannot fire q-torps? Or that it needs two separate sets of launchers? Perhaps the ship is experimental, with all the drama that goes with that? Or mass-produced on the cheap, with a different dramatic appeal? Or older technology, again with dramatic consequences?
If you want to say that q-torps and p-torps *can't* share a tube aboard your ship, you could say they need separate loading/arming devices, and there isn't room to put two of each next to your launchers. Or that your ship is an economy model that cannot even launch probes from the p-torp tube, unless those are shaped and behave exactly like p-torps. There'd certainly be a niche for such models in Starfleet, too.
OR you could say that Starfleet built your ship thinking that p-torps were completely outdated, and thus deliberately omitted the hardware needed to arm and launch those, while thoroughly optimizing the launchers for a single type of ordnance. That's realistic behavior, too.
posted
I think all starships can fire Q-Torps but the Quantum torpedos are hard to make and probably cannot be limited in their destructive yield like P-Torps can. That explains why Enterprise E has both. You'll notice that Enterprise E only fires her Q-Torps when she has a clear shot and it's the ship's most powerful weapon: same goes for the Defiant. Hell, the Defiant's last volley before her destruction was to blow a breen warship in half with Q-torps! That's powerful.
Quantum torpedos appear to move a bit slower on-screen but the DS9TM mentions that they can actually jump to warp for a bit to hit their target!
For your story you could mention the vast destructive power of the Q-Torp and it's relative rarity on starships because (as stated in the DS9TM) they are hard to make.
It might be nice to see a starship fire a volley of four photons at once followed immeadately with one quantum...the photons would take out an enemy's shields and the Quantum would demolish the ship! An Akira could pull that manuver off handily.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Hell, the Defiant's last volley before her destruction was to blow a breen warship in half with Q-torps! That's powerful.
The first time we saw the Defiant use quantum torpedoes was in "Defiant" where it fired four ("a full spread") of them at the Obsidian Order upgraded Keldon-class cruiser and only managed to disable it.
Two hits to the 'underbelly' and two hits to the 'tail', and the resulting damage was only the loss of their defense systems and main power. (Whereas, a short phaser burst directed at the port nacelle of another Keldon managed 70% damage to its shields.)
By the time of "TCFOE", quantum torpedoes either got a helluva lot more powerful or Breen ships were really nothing more that brittle space-faring pretzels. In the same situation (4 torpedoes), the first two did considerable damage to the Breen, the second two finished them off...obviously they lacked something that the Keldons did not lack.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: It might be nice to see a starship fire a volley of four photons at once followed immeadately with one quantum...the photons would take out an enemy's shields and the Quantum would demolish the ship! An Akira could pull that manuver off handily.
Need a towel? A cigarette?
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Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
The thing of noteworthy importance to me is that only specific launchers have been shown to fire qtorps.
With the Ent-E, only the launcher above the yacht ever fired qtorps and that tube only ever fired qtorps and nothing else. All other launchers on the Ent-E were shown to exclusively fire photorps.
Same situation with the Defiant. The fwd triangular launchers exclusively fired qtorps, and the aft launchers exclusively fired photorps.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: It might be nice to see a starship fire a volley of four photons at once followed immeadately with one quantum...the photons would take out an enemy's shields and the Quantum would demolish the ship! An Akira could pull that manuver off handily.
Need a towel? A cigarette?
Wet-Nap would do nicely.
Sorry! I got carried away with exclamations again! It's like living in a Speed Racer episode! You can be Chim Chim.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: The first time we saw the Defiant use quantum torpedoes was in "Defiant" where it fired four ("a full spread") of them at the Obsidian Order upgraded Keldon-class cruiser and only managed to disable it.
Without knowing much about the Keldon, it's hard to use them as a measuring stick. They're modified version of the Galor, but are they newer, or older? More hull clutter doesn't neccessarily mean newer, although that's usually the case in Trek (ex. Excelsior/Ent-B, Galaxy/Venture). They have a larger hull, mainly due to that pod thing on their back. But what's in it? Anything with direct impact on tactical performance? And if they're so easily disabled by Defiant's phaser fire, what's so great about them? The Lakota held up better.
(Those who chuck everything up to The Plot need not read any further.)
quote:Two hits to the 'underbelly' and two hits to the 'tail', and the resulting damage was only the loss of their defense systems and main power. (Whereas, a short phaser burst directed at the port nacelle of another Keldon managed 70% damage to its shields.)
In order to do such catastrophic internal damage, don't you think the Keldon would have had to suffer a massive shield failure first? Isn't the shield part of the defensive systems? And frankly, what does shield matter, if you can bypass them and gut the internals directly?
Finally, Cardassian shields have never been impressive. They let much more damage pass through while still online than any other shield I've seen.
quote:By the time of "TCFOE", quantum torpedoes either got a helluva lot more powerful or Breen ships were really nothing more that brittle space-faring pretzels. In the same situation (4 torpedoes), the first two did considerable damage to the Breen, the second two finished them off...obviously they lacked something that the Keldons did not lack.
I'm voting for Space Pretzels. AFAICT, Breen ship building philosophy is similar to those of the Klingon. You have a large amount of one type ships backed up by smaller number of larger ships (those monster-sized Breen ships in the final).
Now, Breen ships are pretty big, but I guess their defensive shield capacity ain't that great. One also has to remember that they took a full burst from the Defiant, and then Quantum torpedoes. Even with conservative figures, the Defiant's no slouch. And for all we know, those energy dampening weapons sucks a lot of juice, and the Breens were operating at reduced shielding as a result.
On the other hand, the Breens seem to have an edge in offense, don't they? Their ships are pretty damn manuverable, too. So it all evens out.
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Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I favor the idea of the Breen energy weapon draining tons of power from the ship's defenses and that Quantum Torpedos are really powerful.
Recall that the Enterprise E blew up the Borg Sphere with a volley of four torpedos and the Borg are no slouches either. (at least not untill Voyager was finished with them, that is.)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Side stepping a little, the Maquis were able to acquire quantum torps for Dreadnought. And Chakotay even said they could use those torps on Voyager. I don't remember if there was any dialog saying they had to refit Voyager's launchers to accomodate them. The Maquis certainly did modify Dreadnought, but that's because it was of Cardassian origin anyway.
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Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by David Templar: Now, Breen ships are pretty big, but I guess their defensive shield capacity ain't that great. One also has to remember that they took a full burst from the Defiant, and then Quantum torpedoes. Even with conservative figures, the Defiant's no slouch. And for all we know, those energy dampening weapons sucks a lot of juice, and the Breens were operating at reduced shielding as a result.
Actually, it was like I said, just 4 torpedoes to destroy the Breen ship. There was no combined phaser shot with those 4 torpedoes like you say. Phasers were used on the next ship it engaged, however, this Breen ship was able to get off the shot that disabled the Defiant.
I was trying to use the Defiant attacks on the Keldons for a scale-of-damage-caused reference for the same level of attack.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Using the Keldons as a ruler is pointless: The design was considered to be obsolete (from Dukat's reaction anyway). Nobody would have missed those ships when the Obsidian Order took them. The ships were just badass because they were tweaked with Romulan tech to fight the Dominion. It's quite possible that the Keldon's shown were upgraded to withstand Dominion Torpedos and Polaron weapons but were more vulnerable to the Defiant's phasers and less vulnerable to the Q-Torps as a result.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: The design was considered to be obsolete (from Dukat's reaction anyway).
I disagree. From his reaction, I got the impression that he was thinking something like "Holy crap! That's our TOP OF THE LINE ship! How the hell did they manage to build all of THEM without me and my TOTALITARIAN ULTRA-CONTROLLING GOVERNMENT knowing?!".
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