posted
Whats the rate of fire for the torpedo launcher(s) for an non-refit Connie and a refit Connie? Also, were the torpedo launchers loaded manually or automatically?
Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Aya: Whats the rate of fire for the torpedo launcher(s) for an non-refit Connie and a refit Connie? Also, were the torpedo launchers loaded manually or automatically?
Generally speaking, on TOS they rarely ever discussed specifics of the nature of your inquiry. To my knowledge, there was never a direct reference to the rate of fire. Heck it was never clearly established how many weapons the ship had at all.
I suspect at best you'll find some fan speculation on these topics, but nothing really backed-up an episode or movie.
As to the movies, we saw a torpedo launcher twice, and in any one scene you never saw more than one torpedo being loaded at a time.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
There are some hints in canon that could be discussed, though.
The TOS ship had at least six photon torpedo tubes, as mentioned in a couple of episodes ("Errand of Mercy" and "Journey to Babel" at least). It seems that at least tubes 4-6 faced forward. So theoretically, the ship should be able to unleash at least three torps within a second. For a proper WWII submarine movie feel, the launches would probably be staggered a bit. Reload time is completely unknown.
The movie-refit ship was only seen firing multiple torpedoes in ST6:TUC. The launches were staggered, at what seemed like half-second intervals (but we must always consider the possibility that space battles take place in slo mo!). And IIRC, two pairs of such staggered launches were seen, with a reload time of about one second. (DIRC?)
So maximum rate of fire might be four torps per two seconds. Whether the magazines or breeches of the launcher can hold more than two torps per tube launch-ready is unknown, as is whether there are other factors preventing the ship from sustaining the initial launch rate.
The half-second interval, four-torp burst seems to be the preferred pattern for most battle scenes. The Nebula in "Redemption", the Akira and the Sovereign in "First Contact", the Galaxy in several TNG occasions... Bursts of more than four are atypical (we see these in at least "Arsenal of Freedom" and "Yesterday's Enterprise", though), and firing intervals within a burst seem to be about half a second again. The E-D also fired a succession of eight torps in "EaF", with slightly longer intervals.
Probably the technology is not the limiting factor here - instead, some sort of a tactical consideration that stays constant from the 23rd to the 24th century dictates the use of four-torp bursts.
posted
As for the manual vs. automatic thing, TOS dialogue did not mention torpedo crews, although it did mention phaser crews. Movie era dialogue and visuals implied the exact opposite.
But I gather the safest bet would be to say that both systems were heavily man-tended in TOS, somewhat more lightly so in the TOS movie era, and basically automated after that.
There were only four times we got an actual peek into a torpedo room, really.
1) ST2 showed some manual work (removing the floor grilles), but that might have been the extent of it. Heck, today's automated shipboard cannon would require the same degree of tending, with just the removal of weather protection before firing.
2) ST6 showed Spock and McCoy crawling in a tube of some sort, with no hint of normally man-tended systems. In another scene, we saw some consoles next to what looked like a completely automated and enclosed magazine. These sets might be part of the system we saw in ST2, or then a completely different and somewhat more modern system.
3) TNG "In Theory" showed part of the E-D torpedo complex, essentially an empty room where the crews fiddled with the settings of a single torpedo. What might have been the loader-launcher was buried on the floor of the room, without obvious man-tended functions.
4) VOY "Future's End" showed Janeway in a torpedo facility not unlike the nondescript tube from ST6.
There was also a cut scene in "Way of the Warrior" where we'd have seen a torpedo launcher aboard DS9. That one would have been heavily man-tended, for dramatic effect.
The ENT facility makes regular appearances, of course, and seems to be man-tended, with torpedoes manhandled from clumsy racks onto launch rails! If there's an overhead crane for the job, I haven't seen it yet.
posted
Six!? Connies outgunned Galaxys in terms of torpedo launchers then.
Anyways, the reason why I wanted to know was I was playing Star Trek 25th Anniversary game and in it, you can command the Connie Enterprise in battles. Anyways, when you fire torpedos, you fire two at a time and that got me to wondering what the firing rates were for both types of Connies.
Thanks for the info.
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Ahh, the 25th Anniversary game... Love the full 3D nature of the battles, and the ability to target off-boresight. And the sectionalized shielding. And the combat repairs interface. With slightly better graphics and situational awareness, and without the annoying "leave playing field at east end, reappear at west end" feature, it would be a very good Trek combat simulator even today. That's exactly how the ships should feel, IMHO. Not quite a sluggish 18th century sailing ship, not quite a Sopwith Camel, but something in between.
We never witnessed a paired launching of torpedoes in TOS, though. I think the VFX always showed a single bluish bolt leaving the saucer underside. But it *could* have been two torpedoes in close proximity and launched simultaneously... I think the 25th Anniversary reload times were rather plausible, really. And inferior to those of later-era ships, which makes the E-nil less powerful than a Galaxy after all.
posted
My one beef with the game though is the targeting system. Even when you've got the crosshairs trained right on the enemy ship, (like the pirate ship) you'll miss with the phasers.
Still, it's a great game.
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
i'd think that the torpedo burst fired at the KBOP in Generations was several torpedos in a cluster as well: although they cheaped out and used that FUCKING SORRY SCENE FROM STVI!!!!!
I had to get that off my chest, sorry.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: i'd think that the torpedo burst fired at the KBOP in Generations was several torpedos in a cluster as well: although they cheaped out and used that FUCKING SORRY SCENE FROM STVI!!!!!
I would have imagined that most people would be more upset that the Ent-D didn't just open up with the maximum torpedoe spread and fry that little BoP even with her shields up, instead relying on some cheap trick in order to destroy a 50 year old relic.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Well, yeah, but everyone I saw the movie with noticed the use of the stock footage.
It just sucked after they obviously went with good effects and new models for the saucer, the array and the three ships at the movie's ending.
You're right, of course. If DS9 can wipe out a score of KBOP's in a matter of minutes, you'd think the Federation Flagship would be able to handle ONE decomissioned rustbucket.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Not with Riker in charge.
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Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Timo said: "The movie-refit ship was only seen firing multiple torpedoes in ST6:TUC."
In ST:III Scotty sets the Enterprise to rapid fire and the launcher shoots two torpedoes in one second, from the left tube alone. Had the Enterprise been fully loaded and outfitted for combat (instead of the skeleton crew and mothball status in ST:III) they could've fired four torpedoes per second using both launchers, 240 torps/min.
And since the Constellation class was shown on several occasions to have two "Refit-Ent" launchers, one in each pylon-node, she could have fired 480 shots/min, based on TSFS.
All technically and theoretically of course, but it's a solid thesis. It would also explain why Picard's maneuver was so successful, imagine two torpedoes per sec from four launchers...
If anyone has a computer model of the Constellation class and a copy of Lightwave or 3D-MAX, it would be cool to see a simple 3d-movie simulating a ten-second fire session based on these facts. At first only 1 of 4 launchers, firing for two secs, then another joins in every two seconds.
Registered: Aug 1999
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