The Columbine High School students filed into the same school that was rampaged with gunfire, blood, and tears.......
They walked past a long line of supportive community and family members, into hallways and classrooms that can't possibly any longer feel safe...... and sang, and shouted, filled with the courage that they would stomp out intolerance and take back their school.
I can't think of any better form of poetic courage than that. Let's live by thier example.
------------------ "Elevator to hell, going up." - What Dreams May Come
Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :
Sure of course, let's all live surrounded by guard dogs and cops in an area where the First Amendment is a thing of the past, I sure would to live in an area like that. [Every point is true first Colimbine in now patrolled by lots of cops and guard dogs, and Free Speech is no longer allowed because I of this statement ""Sexual, racial and religious slurs or jokes will not be allowed," DeAngelis said. "Profanity and off-color language will not be allowed in the halls of Columbine High School."" Sure that all sounds nice and it is positive and perhaps good, it's doesn't sound like much free speech is happening there, it sound more like, free speech as long as it's PC and what we like.]
BTW I intend no disrespect, Jubilee, I just see the Dark side of all this stuff and need to point it out. Yes the rally was a good thing and what the principal said was important and good. However when the kids are surrounded by so much secruity that the school feels in some ways like a prison, then I get nervous, and point out little things that don't seem right. But I am glad that someone feels that way and I wish I did, but I don't and likely never will.
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos:-) )
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
There is a rumor that schools here will be locked down every day, including doors with emergency release bars, that are designed to open easily in case of fire. I don't think I'd let a kid go to public school under those conditions.
------------------ Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx
Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :
The point is not the school, or it's environment.... well, it is, but not THE point.
THE point is that these students have the courage to go back to such a place and continue their education.
------------------ "Elevator to hell, going up." - What Dreams May Come
Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :
Your right the point is the students have the courage to return to there school, but what are they returning to a school or a prison, come on in some schools the only difference now is there are no strip searchs, and that the students don't live there and there isn't much esle different. Courage is great, it was great when the Kosovo Albanians returned to Kosovo after the horrible things the Serbs did to them, however it was terrible when a small group of them started doing the same thing to Serbs. All I am saying is 2 wrongs don't make a right.
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos:-) )
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Welcome back to school. Please check your Constitution at the door..."
Sorry. Couldn't help myself... :-)
------------------ "Now you're the only one here who can tell me if it's true, That you love me, and I love me..." -They Might Be Giants, "Kiss Me, Son of God"
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Courage is the first virtue. Be brave, kids.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Deep6 on :
I just saw a report on CNN that swastikas(sp??) had been found painted on bathroom walls at Columine today. Now how do you think this will help the case against tighter security(which I AM against).
[This message has been edited by Deep6 (edited August 17, 1999).]
Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
""Sexual, racial and religious slurs or jokes will not be allowed," DeAngelis said. "Profanity and off-color language will not be allowed in the halls of Columbine High School.""
--Ya know, at my old HS none of that has *ever* been allowed. Thinking that be ok even before the shootings is stupid! That is not free speech!
------------------ It's all about the Pentiums, Baby! "I'm down with Bill Gates, I call him Money for short I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support"
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Just a question... It's okay to allow those things as free speech? Uhhhh...
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
They blocked the main entrance to the library with a new strip of lockers. I guess that place is too traumatic for anyone to set foot in. Wonder where the new library will be located?
I too don't see anything good about new security. At my high school, all we've got are video cameras, and a couple of cops who patrol the school every day and chat with the students. And that's A'ok with me. It may not be perfect, but it would probably be good enough.
ID tags? Get real. Student security starts with the students themselves.........
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
This topic is suitable for flaming, no?
------------------ "Hey Mr. Boo, fly away home. Your house is so lovely, your children so nice." -- Hello (The Band)
Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :
It wasn't supposed to be a flame topic... ugh.
------------------ "Elevator to hell, going up." - What Dreams May Come
Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
Never my intention, if I am the reference.
As the son of a teacher, I know free speech has never been allowed in schools. School Admins. have more power on school property than law enforcement does on the streets.
------------------ It's all about the Pentiums, Baby! "I'm down with Bill Gates, I call him Money for short I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support"
Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :
I know that and I even know that yes you check the Constitution at the door at the school you go to. As my Ex-principal Father Richard L. Mickey said "when you enter the school house you have no rights". But I thought it was funny that students were appauding the fact that they were having what little freedom stripped away and that everyone thought this a good thing, well it isn't. Sorry about that I guess I kind of started it, but feel really strongly about personal rights gurantteed in the Constitution and how easy people are giving them away for "increased Secruity", I don't know if the teachers paid a little more attention then perhaps this problem wouldn't be happening.
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos:-) )
Posted by Feste on :
People are getting so scared they don't care if their rights are stripped away: bust in school lockers, random test students for drugs, monitor conversation - it's only a matter of time before someone in authority wises up and bans George Orwell.
------------------ "There comes a time in every woman's life when the only thing that helps is a glass of champagne."
Bette Davis - Old Acquaintance
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Actually, students have access to quite a few rights, tempered by the fact that they are in fact still children.
School officials are bound by in loco parentis, or in non-legal terms, the school has all the rights and responsibilities of a parent.
Now, to be honest for a moment, none of these new rules are really new at all. The security factor is new, but it's just that, security. Students do not have the right to leave school grounds at will anyway. Courts HAVE upheld first amendment rights of students, beginning during the Vietnam War, but that doesn't extend to abusive and harassing speech. It's the fire in a crowded theater issue.
------------------ "Hey Mr. Boo, fly away home. Your house is so lovely, your children so nice." -- Hello (The Band)
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Indeed. In a landmark court case some 25 years ago, involving students expelled for publishing an underground school newspaper, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that "A child's right to free speech does not end at the schoolhouse doors."
However, free speech does not apply to speech that causes a clear and present danger to people (fire in a theater, hate speech, incitement to riot, etc).
However, jokes are on a thin, very thin, line. How do you tell a black kid telling jokes about black people that he's being racist? How do you tell a Jewish kid telling Jewish jokes he's discriminating? How do you tell a girl gossiping to her friends about the other night's makeout session she's being sexualy harassing?
------------------ "When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Just out of curiosity, has anyone got the slightest idea what the ID badge concept is all about? I mean, the morons that shot the place up were students. If they had had ID tags back then, it still could have happened.
"Hey, is that a gun sticking out of your backpack?!"
"I have an ID tag..."
"Oh. Sorry. Carry on, sir."
------------------ "Now you're the only one here who can tell me if it's true, That you love me, and I love me..." -They Might Be Giants, "Kiss Me, Son of God"
Posted by Deep6 on :
They started the ID tag policy at my school last year, before the shootings. I actually wrote an article for the school paper on the very subject. but as you said, there really is no point. I can only hope that either 1)the gunman sees my ID and decided not to kill me or 2)the plastic that makes up the ID tag is strong enough to stop a bullet. It really doesnt matter..nobody wears them anyway.
------------------ "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."
-Niccolo Machiavelli
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
There is a grade school about a block from here. All the kids wear badges. You can't get very far without one. I think the idea was to keep kids from other schools out. I used to see them at Biscut World, which is about half way betwen here and the school.
After grade school, about age 12, we could leave the school grounds at will. They have tried to change that in the last few years, but don't have the personel to keep up with all the kids. And the schools are consolidating, merging two older schools into one new building, so it's only going to get worse.
------------------ Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
*Can't help it... must make joke...*
*BlazingSaddles-speak* "Badges?!? WE DON' NEED NO STEENKING BADGES!"
------------------ "When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Ya know, if they were wearing uniforms...
Okay, so they are not that hard to get. But people probably just wouldn't do it because it's sooo embarrassing.
We had no cameras at our Senior school. Or security guards. Or ID badges. Damn this gun-free country of mine (sorry, wrong topic)
Actually at our university you have to show ID when you go throught the front desk, and when you go to the SU pub, but that's it. You haven't got to walk around with it on display the whole time (which I think is what these kids have to do).
Oh, and are you saying that it's okay from black people to tell black people jokes? How is that worse than white people telling them? They both serve to discriminate. (And then we get the point of a black kid saying white-boy jokes will largely be ignored, where a white-boy telling black-kid jokes is likely to be hauled over the coals.)
------------------ Headmaster suspended for using big-faced boy as satellite-dish -The Day Today
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Have you ever listened to a typical Black American comedian? (try the BET channel, if you haven't.) I mean, if the "n-word" were REALLY offensive, these guys would get their butts kicked on a daily basis!
But no, apparently it's okay if a person telling the joke about a group BELONGS to that group. At least, that's what watching and listening to them (and others) tells me. "Martin" was a show all about black stereotypes.. but did you see the NAACP trying to get it off the air? Nope.
This is off-topic, I know.
------------------ "When we turn our back on our principles, we stop being human." -- Janeway, "Equinox"
Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :
Actually, a black friend of mine once explained the difference between "nigger" and "niggah", the latter meaning a general term for person, but the former being the offensive term.
------------------ "I will remember you...Will you remember me? Don't let your love pass you by...Weep not for the memories..." Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
I am quite certain that a white person attempting to use the "correct" version of the word would very likely be understood to mean the wrong version, no matter who was listening. People will often hear what they expect instead of what was meant. I'm Scottish, French, English, Dutch, Irish, and Cherokee, but if I were with someone who was purely of one or the other stock, they would likely hear a slur, rather than self-deprecation, were I to tell a joke featuring anyone of the same group as they (unless of course, they knew me well). You can only take offense if you brought some with you.
Jeff I heard the Exact same thing that that term (althought I believe they spelled it without an "H" at the end but spelling has never been my strong suit) was actually acceptable in schools. I don't buy that, anyway the real trouble about a word isn't the word but the meaning behind it, like the term "Bloody" doesn't mean a thing in the US, while I believe in Britian it's dirty work, and the same is true of American curse words and symbols overseas.
------------------ HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos:-) )