OK, here it is. I'm looking for specific numbers and allocations for the following in the Navy and Air Force;
Squadron Wing Group Division Flotilla Regiment?* Battalion?* Legion?* Brigade?*
*=heard references that the two forces use these designations, but not sure.
I'm asking here because EVERY single web site that I've been on to doesn't give me any figures. I'd like to know how many fighers make up a wing or a group and how many and what type of ships make up a squadron or a group.
Can anyone here help please?
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I believe a squadron is 12 planes. A wing is about 7 squadrons. A group is about 3 or 4 wings. This is all RAF by the way, but I assume the USAF is similar (although I believe they reverse group and wing).
I believe Navy units are completely arbitrary. The Pacific Fleet, for instance, is just all the US ships in the Pacific Ocean.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
For the US Navy's sea-going warships, the numbers are completely arbitrary and depend on the mission involved. There are general standards for the strategic assignments, I think, but those aren't a traditional, "mandatory" number AFIK.
I'm not sure if most of those designations listed apply to seagoing ships in the US Navy... the only one I know for certain would be the squadron.
I've kept a few links from Navy websites for other purposes, and a quick browse found a few pages that might be helpful:
The numbers for an Air Force squadron vary, usually depending on the size/type of aircraft. A fighter squadron does usually have 12 aircraft as Phoenix said, but squadrons operating larger aircraft usually have fewer. E.g. 51 Sqn has 3 Nimrod R.1. Our two Sentry AEW.1 squadrons (can't remember numbers) have 7 aircraft between them. Wings and groups are as Phoenix described. A squadron is usually commanded by a Wing Commander and a wing by a Group Captain (no, I don't know why). Legion has never been used for any British formation that I am aware of (well, except Roman legions recruited from Britain but I'm discounting those). Regiment and Battalion are usually Army designations but also apply to the RAF Regiment (NOT part of the Army) and the Royal Marines. The regiment is the basic administrative unit and each regiment has several battalions of about 1000 men each e.g. 1st battalion Grenedier Guards. A brigade is 2-3 battalions and a division is usually 2-3 brigades although it can be more.
Navy formations such as flotilla are variable and depend on the task assigned and ships available etc.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I think the exact size of a squadron is complicated by the fact that there are always going to be planes that are out of service for maintenance or whatever. You can have a theoretical number that are meant to be assigned, but in reality the number will be far smaller.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Thank's guys.
I often wondered whether Weyoun 7 mis-spoke to Damar when he told him to send a whole battalion of ships after Odo and Weyoun 6. Anyone know what a ship battalion would be in size - 500/1,000? :shrug: Hey-ho.
Anyhow, I've managed to find 1 or 2 things out - a navy squad is 6 vessels with a battle group (carrier) is 9-11. The Atlantic and Pacific Fleets are about 200 ships in size with 1,300 and 2,000 air craft respectively and 375,000 sailors between them! That's a lot!
Anyways, thanks for your replies and if you come across any additional info in your web surfing, think of this thread HEHE
-AK Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Well here's my explanation about divisions.
On a ship it starts out with Departments. As an Electronics Warfare Technician (EW) my Department is Operations. Departments have Department Heads, ours is LT Ybarra, nicknamed Ops (think Data's job on the Enterprise).
Within a Department you have Divisions. My Division is Operations:Tactical (OT). We work closely with Operation Specialists (OS) who are in Division Operations:Intelligence (OI).
Each Division has a Division Officer, in my case ENS Rosenbach, who is responsible for the Division and reports to the Department Head.
So basically a ship has say 6 Departments, within each Department there are several Divisions.
Now to address another subject regarding squadrons and fleets.
My ship is part of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 23. DESRON 23 is part of the Third Fleet.
During WWII the South Pacific Force, commanded by Vice Admiral William Halsey, became the Third Fleet, and the title Fifth Fleet was designated for a fleet that would operate under the Pacific Fleet by Vice Admiral Raymond Spruance.
As naval activity in the Central Pacific increased and operations diminished in the South Pacific, the Third and Fifth Fleets were melded into a single organization, but the title varied, depending on whether Vice Admiral Halsey or Vice Admiral Spruance actually exercised command. While one admiral commanded the Fleet in a specific operation, the other admiral was ashore with his staff planning the next major offensive.
Today however the Fifth Fleet operates in the Gulf which the Third Fleet operates in the Pacific.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
What are some of the other departments?
I could pull out my Tom Clancy's Guide to an Aircraft Carrier, but I'm lazy.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
To be quite honest I don't know off the top of my head. Combat, Weapons, Engineering, Supply... of course my department, Operations.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
In the RN, departments are:
Executive (responsible for Medical, Chaplaincy, Physical Training and Seamanship, Discipline - dept head is the XO) Warfare (= combat - normally the biggest I think) Marine Engineering (looking after the engines) Weapon Engineering (making sure the guns can fire) Flight (Frigates and Destroyers) (helicopter flight and maintenance crew) Air (ACs) (they fly things) Air Engineering (ACs) (they make sure the things can fly) Supply (feeding, clothing, paying the crew)
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: I think the exact size of a squadron is complicated by the fact that there are always going to be planes that are out of service for maintenance or whatever. You can have a theoretical number that are meant to be assigned, but in reality the number will be far smaller.
Yeah; but those planes are still assigned to the squadron, it's just the number that are available that changes.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Alright got department list now...
Supply: "Suppo" Operations: "Ops" Chief of Engineering: "Cheng" Combat Systems Officer: "CSO" Weapons Officer: "Weps"
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Of course, all this gets complicated by the fact that an Air Force squadron need not have any planes at all; it all depends on the function it performs. For example, when I was in flight simulator maintenance, my first two squadrons were the 96th and 9th Avionics Maintenance Squadrons. After simulators were transferred from Maintenance to Operations, my shop was directly under the 9th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing.
As for the levels of organization in the USAF, (the way I was taught it in basic training back in '83) from highest to lowest they went like this:
Headquarters USAF Major Command Numbered Air Force Air Division Wing Group Squadron Flight Squad
The group was often used to contain units from one command being housed on a base belonging to another. For example, on the last base I was assigned to, the 398th Operations Group (responsible for KC-135 crew training) was a tenant unit of the 93rd Bomb Wing (responsible for B-52 crew training).
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid: As for the levels of organization in the USAF, (the way I was taught it in basic training back in '83) from highest to lowest they went like this:
Headquarters USAF Major Command Numbered Air Force Air Division Wing Group Squadron Flight Squad
So, how big are the following?
a) Air Division b) Numbered Air Force c) Major Command and d) Headquarters USAF?
Hey, wait a minute? A Squad? Isn't that simply a shortened version of Squadron? Flight I know to be ~4 craft but a Squad? What's that, 2 craft?
And haven't you got Wing and Group the wrong way round? I thought a Wing was ~7 Squadrons and a Group was ~3/4 Wings? Please explain. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"A Squad? Isn't that simply a shortened version of Squadron?"
No.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"A Squad? Isn't that simply a shortened version of Squadron?"
No.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRH!
Not funny TSN!
So, what is a squad?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
A row of 5 or so men in a platoon. Or something like that.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Not funny? Of course it isn't funny. I was answering a question. Not every word I say is required to be humorous.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
well, i thought it was funny, tim.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
He's funnier unintentionally then when he tries. And he's fat!
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
or some of him is, anyway
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Back to the topic please.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
how many squads make up a Tim?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
or is Tim a shortened version of a Timmon?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Hakuna Matata.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That's one 'm'. Timon. And his recently independent half, East Timon.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Sigh.
Ah shit! [Throws hands up in mock defeat]I'm gonna sit this one out for a while. Someone PM me when you actually get back the topic please.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I hope you aren't holding your breath...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
As far as I can tell, your questions have been addressed. If some angle has not been approached to your satisfaction, why not reintroduce it? Threads begin to wander when the general perception is that their purpose has been fulfilled.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
OK, here's 2 questions.
1) What is a squad in navy terms when referring to ships (the answers so far are not entirely clear).
2) How many ships could Weyoun 7 have referred to when he ordered Damar to send a whole battalion after Odo and Weyoun 6?
I think that once I have answers to those, I'll give everyone a breather until the next round in a few weeks or two.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: 2) How many ships could Weyoun 7 have referred to when he ordered Damar to send a whole battalion after Odo and Weyoun 6?
Well, bearing in mind a battalion is never used to refer to ships the possibilities are as follows:
1)Weyoun 7 knows nothing about naval designations and simply ment a squadron or a lot of ships; 2)Battalion usually refers to a ground unit of around 1000 men so perhaps ships with crews totalling this number or; 3)1000 ships (not likely, I know)
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Did he say "battalion?" His mistake. He meant "legion." Or possibly "cohort."
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Or 'a flock'.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
of seagulls?
gnarly!
Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: of seagulls?
gnarly!
And I ran, I ran so far awaaaaaay...couldn't get away
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
That's a lot!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
HEHE![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
What's that, 2 craft?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)