Ok, following the trend here in America of laying off thousands of workers and sending thier jobs over to China do you think NASA will follow and outsource all space flight operations to China?
Discuss.
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
I don't know about that - but congratulations to them - for joining the Space Community - which in the final analysis is much more significant that joining the Nuclear Club.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Where's Blofeld and his secret volcano lair when you need him?
Grab that capsule, it's payback time! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Outsourcing to China -- interesting idea.
I somehow doubt that China can do the same jobs much cheaper, though. At least, not any time within the next decade or two. The best idea would be something equivalent if ISA/IASA or whatever you want to call it. But China's entry into the manned space age doesn't add much hope for that, considering their characteristic extreme paranoia.
IIRC, even the Soviets didn't have their space program permanently under the command of the military, right?
After quoting the brief mention last night, CNN published an entire article about Wan Hu, the first Chinese taikonaut (in the 1500's). Although common wisdom suggests that the gunpowder rockets simply obliterated Mr. Wan, it's also possible, IMO, that the explosion formed some sort of Kerr loop of superstring material, creating a temporal rift that sent Wan and his primitive spacecraft into another time... Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
This is intresting. Being that USA and USSR have done most of the pioneer work, how soon do you think until they put up a small space-station?
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
I hope that the space race starts up again... :-)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Shenzhou 5 has landed safely. Yay for them.
There are articles online already for and against a renewed space race - check space.com and CNN.com. Personally I'm in favor of it, for a lot of good can come from it. But the days of the cold war are far behind us, and diplomacy has pretty well ensured that a US/China encounter will not happen. I hope that at the least, we get some definitive cooperation in space.
The Chinese seem intent on a space station and then a moon landing within fifteen years. I certainly hope so - and then after that, a cooperative mission to Mars with the rest of the space community. Hopefully some of us will still be around to appreciate it.
Mark
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
If the Chinese know what's good for them, they'll stay away from Europa!
Seriously, congrats to Yang Liwei and the Chinese space program!
By the way, has any seen any good closeups of those mission patches?
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Here's China's space agency patch. I wonder if there are Trek fans in China. Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I hope Viacom's lawyers don't learn about this...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Or Pontiac's.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Or the UN's.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Is there any particular reason why the letters aren't Chinese?
And presumably they stand for Chinese National Space Agency, which makes even less sense...
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
So, anyone want to guess what direction China will take with her space program? A space station? The moon?
How about the US; will this spur a new space race?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Here's a thought. While starting projects with the other countries to build a better space station and generally cooperating, they could get rid of their oppressive, counterproductive communist regime.
Still, one out of two would be enough. Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: Ouyang Ziyuan, chief scientist of China's Moon exploration programme, told BBC News Online last year that the aim was a space station not later than 2005, and that there could be manned Chinese outposts on the Moon by 2020 or 2030. "The Moon could serve as a new and tremendous supplier of energy and resources for human beings," he said. "This is crucial to sustainable development of human beings on Earth."
BUT
quote: There are specific military purposes, in the view of Li Cheng.
"No one would be so na�ve as to think this only has civilian implications. China is very concerned about the US missile defence system. [China's] space programme is commissioned and mainly controlled by the military," he said.
"How about the US; will this spur a new space race?"
Hardly.
When the Russians first put Gagarin up there, the US reacted feverishly because, you know, the communists were taking over space and were going to set us (sic) up the Bomb from orbit! That whole Cold War deal had everyone wrapped REAL tight, and so there was genuine Concern and Motivation to counter the Red Threat (I make a rhime every time). But now that the climate has warmed and Things are Cosy again, the general response to China's (barely-concealed military) endeavours is:
"Who cares?"
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Hey, about the logo: it isn't the only connection between China's history of space flight and Star Trek.
Did anyone read the CNN article carefully?
quote:
Wan's pioneering spacecraft was built around a sturdy chair, two kites and 47 of the largest gunpowder-filled rockets he could lay his hands on.
Come the launch day, Wan dressed himself in his imperial finery, strapped himself in the chair and called upon his 47 servants, each armed with a flaming torch, to light the 47 fuses.
Is it just me or does that number ring a familiar bell? Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Yeah, sounds like a Holodeck misadventure episode of Voyager.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Besides, both the Russians, ESA and NASA have actually cooperated with the CNSA (what the heck does that mean anyway).
Oh.. and what an utter crap website the official Chinese space program has.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Manned moon bases by 2020? Neat.
If China's space Program is controlled by the military, You think they'd put WMD's on the moon? Wouldn't be easy, but then again, there'd be no UN Inspectors, or polititians (I think I spelled that wrong) to keep tabs on them.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, putting WMDs on the Moon beats putting them just about anywhere else.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Let's put all WMD's on the moon...and leave them there. Would be a good idea.
And as a bonus it might help humankind in the future, when the Enterprise E comes to stop the Borg in First Contact and finds some surplus hydrogen bombs etc. on the moon to throw at them Swedish bastards... Would make for another nice "Assimilate THIS" line... Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Let's put all WMD's on the moon...and leave them there."
Yeah... locked away in a vault inside Pico Mountain.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I always was a fan of a trip to the sun for them....
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Yeah, probably for the better.
Otherwise Dr. Evil might find them on the moon when he takes his next trip round his "Moon Base"... Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The whole point of the space race in 1960, as others have mentioned, was that if either side could put a man into space, then they could also launch ICBM's with a pan-global range.
The fact is that today, there's no arms race to fuel a new space race. No arms race yet, that is. I don't think it's unlikely at all that there will be a massive shift in global politics as more of the current "developing nations" reach strong(er) industrial capacities and can field more advanced tech of their own. Right now, the US practically monopolizes the "high ground" of outer space with the GPS system and other various communications stuff. How soon before Russia, China, or India or someone else decides that they should have the ability to knock those satellites offline in order to disrupt US military advances? (It'd be presented as a "defensive" technology, of course... *sigh*)
Today's US military relies to an unbelievable extent on precision location and communication techniques made possible by the GPS system. Though I seriously doubt that it would be a war-loser all on its own, it would definitely cause serious difficulties for the US troops, wherever they're fighting at the time. Less accurate bombs means more missions flown, larger bomb payloads -- basically a return to Vietnam-era carpet bombing, most likely. Infantry and tank tactics would be disrupted as they have difficulty communicating with each other. Not to mention that the Central Command won't be having real-time updates from every part of the front.
But worst of all, attacking the GPS system would mean that the embedded reporters on the front lines wouldn't be able to send in their features for sensationalism and ratings-building. And that, my friends, represents a threat to the American way of life that will never be tolerated. 8)
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
My carpet needs to be bombed, nephews damn dog anyway....
No, it'll regress to Bush War I with video guided munitions and some dumb, er, drop bombs, GPS has been around for a few years, but semi-precision weapons around for a bit longer....
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Any nation defending against American attack (a la Iraq) would have to consider knocking out GPS very carefully. Our bombs are currently designed to strike only their military targets, and despite foul-ups, this works.
Sure, disabling the satellites would present tactical advantages as the American command and control was disrupted, but unless you had your own GPS to use you'd only be making the playing field a little more level. Our tech advantages range across the board.
The most basic effect would be that by destroying GPS, you risk Dresden for your people, since the US couldn't be so accurate anymore.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Ever compare the time it takes to fuel, launch, boost, cruise, and re-enter a ballistic missile to the time it takes for a "meteor" to fall?
Put a targeting camera and a boost engine on a VW-sized chuck of rock, and You've got something with the impact power of an atomic bomb, but with no radiation and a much smaller window of opportunity to intercept.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Subtext: No-one had to worry about this as long as only God's Own Country could afford to go into space.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Countertext: We didn't do it. Doesn't mean they won't.
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
I read this novel too. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:Put a targeting camera and a boost engine on a VW-sized chuck of rock, and You've got something with the impact power of an atomic bomb, but with no radiation and a much smaller window of opportunity to intercept.
I must contemplate this tactical application, over an exquisite glass of Brivari.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Put a targeting camera and a boost engine on a VW-sized chuck of rock, and You've got something with the impact power of an atomic bomb, but with no radiation and a much smaller window of opportunity to intercept.
Ick! I suppose it'd be all the more reason to hurry that asteroid tug. I expect it'd be a lot easier to make an asteroid avoid a target than it would be to have it his a specific mark. "Uh, it seems there has been a slight miscalculation. Remember that embarrasing little problem with the SARS epidemic? Well the upside is that we're probably never going to have to worry about that area ever again."
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Ever compare the time it takes to fuel, launch, boost, cruise, and re-enter a ballistic missile to the time it takes for a "meteor" to fall?
That's true, except for the fact that an asteroid is already traveling at a significantly greater speed relative to the Earth. I would suspect that it might not have quite the same amount of kinetic energy as something that orbits the sun every few years.
I think the only real difference would be between not arming the warhead and just having it plummet to the surface, or having the nuke explode a mile up in the air and spread a lot more devastation (and radiation).
However, I'm not sure if the kinetic impacts from missile-sized objects would really create the same kind of devastation. Scientists believe that the relatively famous asteroid that impacted in Siberia in 1908 was about 40 meters across, and had a force of about 10 megatons -- that's pretty massive, and unless it were compacted it wouldn't even fit into the space shuttle's cargo bay.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I thought they were fairly sure Tunguska was an airburst.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Without a crater is was hard to tell.....
I read a theory that it could have been a black hole passing through....
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Now if you could only make the meteor's mass go critical just prior to impact....hmmmm...possibilities.
The Tunguska destruction was caused by UFO's, ghosts, a mummy's curse, crop circles, voo-doo and the Yeti. I saw it throughly "investigated" on sci-fi channel, so it must be true. Lee Majors said so.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
If China were asked to help with the ISS would they be able to help with the short comings that have developed???
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
China has tried to become a part of that program, and has been rebuffed over fears that assisting the Chinese space program would directly or indirectly help improve their ballistic missiles.
Recent events make the prospect of keeping the Chinese out of orbit by not letting them pay for our space station increasingly old fashioned and laughable, so we might see this policy changed once the next NASA budget comes up. On the other hand, the media coverage of their spaceflight shows just how passe and boring putting people into near-earth orbit is. But imagine if the Chinese put up a big, cheap, working space station while the abandoned ISS burns down through the atmosphere. That might attract more attention. But then, despite its failure at building a useful space station, there are all sorts of benefits from being a part of the ISS program, learning how to avoid its flaws perhaps chief among them.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...once the next NASA budget comes up."
Assuming it does...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: I thought they were fairly sure Tunguska was an airburst.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between an airburst and a meteor that explodes in the lower atmosphere before impact? Because that's what I thought the Tunguska disaster was, an exploding meteor...
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
i thought it was a ferengi shuttle that had a warp core breach after a temporal anomaly formed in its drive system
Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
got drunk, posted twice, see all the details on tomorrows eyewitness newz, yo
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Well, okay as long as that is settled....
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between an airburst and a meteor that explodes in the lower atmosphere before impact? Because that's what I thought the Tunguska disaster was, an exploding meteor...
I was just trying to sound cool and use the word 'airburst'. I'd heard or read some pretty solid sounding theories (too lit to look it up at this point (cheers, Mic!)) that it was a meteorite or comet that exploded several hundred feet above ground (knocking down all the timber) and therefore didn't dig too deep a trench or leave a big incriminatingly smoldering hunk of iron slag or whatever. But it could have been a Ferengi black hole for all I know.
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But imagine if the Chinese put up a big, cheap, working space station while the abandoned ISS burns down through the atmosphere. That might attract more attention.
This will happen. Sooner than you think.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Uh, you sound very definite about that. You're not a member of the Politburo are you? Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
He just knows that this is a lame assed attempt to bolster public opinion about space exploration and is, by it very nature, doomed to burn in a toxic soup of an atmosphere created by the very launch vehicles that took it up.....
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
@Sol System: Why do you say that the Chinese space flight didn't generate a lot of media attention? Here it was headline news, on the front page of every major newspaper and a main feature on TV. But of course this is just in backward old Europe...
Oh, I forgot, in the US attention is only paid to really important news like a new Wal-mart store opening in Wisconsin or like the Baseball results or Hillary Clinton's new book... Ack!
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
shallow, fat, lazy, narrow minded.... America, the beautiful....
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
quote:Originally posted by Austin Powers: Oh, I forgot, in the US attention is only paid to really important news like a new Wal-mart store opening in Wisconsin or like the Baseball results or Hillary Clinton's new book... Ack!
Lets not forget the fucking Kobe Bryant case! Gotta give extensive coverage! And the Peterson Case! WOOHOO! Cover THAT too! And we have to have our daily dose of "Why President-God Bush The All Powerful Was Right To Conqure Iraq" followed by some dribble about the fact that even though we continue to loose jobs at an accelerated rate to China the economy is recovering! (vomit)
This is why I don't watch the World News anymore. I read the news paper. That way I can skip the bull.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Phase One: Mention wife in every post. Complete. Phase Two: Mention manufacturing empire in every post. Complete. Phase Three: Mention supposed job emigration to China in every post. In Progress.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: Ever compare the time it takes to fuel, launch, boost, cruise, and re-enter a ballistic missile to the time it takes for a "meteor" to fall?
That's true, except for the fact that an asteroid is already traveling at a significantly greater speed relative to the Earth. I would suspect that it might not have quite the same amount of kinetic energy as something that orbits the sun every few years.
Not if the asteroid is already in Earth orbit. see the aforementioned Asteroid Tug. Grab a small NEA, drag it into orbit, break it up (while extracting valuable minerals without despoiling native panda habitat), and bingo; an arsenal of GPS-targetable kinetic weapons orbiting the earth.
quote: However, I'm not sure if the kinetic impacts from missile-sized objects would really create the same kind of devastation. Scientists believe that the relatively famous asteroid that impacted in Siberia in 1908 was about 40 meters across, and had a force of about 10 megatons -- that's pretty massive, and unless it were compacted it wouldn't even fit into the space shuttle's cargo bay.
The meteor which carved out Barringer Crater was 150 feet across, weighed roughly 300,000 tons, and was traveling at a speed of 40,000 miles per hour. The force generated by its impact was equal to the explosion of 20 million tons of TNT.
So...
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Cool. About time someone got off their ass and got something to act as a deterrence. We do know that they're planning on it and that they'll get there before the the States right? Sweet.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Magnus: Phase One: Mention wife in every post. Complete. Phase Two: Mention manufacturing empire in every post. Complete. Phase Three: Mention supposed job emigration to China in every post. In Progress.
Are you saying Sty is full of himself????
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Hmmm... I can think of several posts where I didn't mention any of these things. So I guess that just proves once again that UM is a moron.
Brace yourself Ultra: My wife and I are having an interview at our factory about job-losses to China. No I'm not yanking your chain, the Rochester Journal of Industry wants to print my views on the situation.
Sad thing is no one seems to care much, but they sure bitch and moan when the cheap chineese imports they demand (at SUCH LOW COST! LOOK AT THE LOW COST! ITS SO LOW COST! IT SAVES MONEY!) fail or are imperfect in some way.
Try getting satisfaction from a company in mainland China.
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Magnus: Phase One: Mention wife in every post. Complete. Phase Two: Mention manufacturing empire in every post. Complete. Phase Three: Mention supposed job emigration to China in every post. In Progress.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I went to the supermarket the other day to get a carton of milk. While I was waiting in line, I happened to find out that I too can lose weight without exercising and that Cher and Michael jackson are aliens from outer space. It had to be true because they interviewed a guy with a big pitchfork and a Ford pickup. Then I found that Elvis was still alive and then I was sad.
[ October 22, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I wonder what it said before the edit????
The pricing is every thing.... THe boat parts I used to sell came from China, bought for US$1.169 and sold for US$1.52, while the Made in America ones cost us $2.45.... Qualtiy was about equal, set screws were meteric, but we sent 3mm hex drivers along for free... and only a few of the people ordering the parts complained....
China is a growing market, for both buy and selling, heck, where do you think the dollar stores get there stuff. Buy for .15 and sell for 1.00, great mark up....
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman: Lets not forget the fucking Kobe Bryant case! Gotta give extensive coverage!
Isn't that supposed to be the "Kobe Bryant fucking case" instead? Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Calm those question marks down there, Ritten. The only edit TSN did was to alter the text of the hyperlink from the long URL to "link." No conspiracy theories. No mind control rays. And no federal agents hiding in your trash cans outside your house.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Well, I have seen the agents, nahhh
I like my questions marks, all for of them, and my four periods, and if needed ,,,,
I liked the news report about the Peterson case when they made a mention of another pregnant woman that was killed in the same area a short while before, but didn't seem to make a big deal out of that one....
Why, Lacy was far prettier than the other woman was is all I can think, so she would make a better looking corpse....
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Urgh, you are a sick sick person... ;-)
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
No. Just a terrible human. B)
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
No, that was from Magnus. At least my comment was somewhat original... ;-))
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
What other reason would visual media skip the same type of case in favor of another????
Eye of the beholder and all....
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Why a vast right/left-wing conspiracy, of course.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
No, this was a fuselodge conspiracy, right down the center....
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