).We drank, and drank, and drank some more, and drank, and drank, and finished up with a drink ... and then decided to get high (my first time getting high, I might add) ... so we're driving around Cockeysville getting high, and she starts rambling/talking about all kinds of crazy stuff, and then tells me that a guy took "advantage" of her when she was 16 (she's my age now -- 22).
She also tells me that when she moved back to Maryland from Florida (about 3 months ago), she went out drinking one night (heavy drinking) -- and woke up the next morning in some stranger's bedroom ... she was crying as she was telling me this (at least, I think she was, I was drunk and getting high so I might not be the best person to judge...)
But she told me how horrible it was to wake up and have no memory of what had led her to be there ... I wondered if she'd been raped, but she was certain she'd consented ... but ...
I can't get it out of my head that this guy raped her.
Hell. I don't know ... maybe I just want to get this out for "discussion" ... Right. Where's a beer?
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 03, 2000).]
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Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
quote:
We drank, and drank, and drank some more, and drank, and drank, and finished up with a drink ... and then decided to get high (my first time getting high, I might add) ... so we're driving around Cockeysville getting high
You fucking rule, dude. You're my fucking hero. Too bad there were no children out, 'cause then you would be the fucking rule-meister of the world.
Again, you motherfucking rule. So much so, it hurts.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited December 03, 2000).]
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Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
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[6th Sense] I see dumbass people [/6th Sense]
------------------
"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
I was drunk off my ass, she had been sobering up for a few hours. She was driving, so the drunk was not behind the wheel ... (in this case at least)
Sorry for the confusion =(
See, I have a weak tolerance for alcohol. Three beers or ciders, and I'm out there. We made a point of starting to sober up before we got high, so we stopped drinking about 8ish or so and didn't leave Padonia Station until a little bit after 10 ... so, yes, I was still very drunk (because I'd had two Bass's, two Ciders, something really bad, and most of a pitcher of Bass, I think), she'd had one cider, one something really bad (maybe two), and whatever of the pitcher I didn't drink ... I think ...
So, she wasn't drunk when we left.
I should've made sure to put that in the first post.
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 03, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 03, 2000).]
Hang on, I've just remembered. I got drunk last night. I might have attacked someone with a shoe. I don't remember doing it, but that doesn't matter, because the pain is juts as great.
Half the people who go to clubs and get drunk want to end up in someone's bed. You don't want to, don't drink as much, or stick with your friends. Did they just let her wander off with a strange man?
Tsk, can no-one live today without having a Sensitive/Disturbing Incident In Their Past in an attempt to make up for a lack of personality.
Grr.
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
She's at peace with herself about (I think) ... at least, thats what she told me.
What bothered her was not having any memory of anything happen ... just waking up the next morning not knowing if she'd had sex or not.
I'm the one who can't get the idea that she was raped out of my head ...
Maybe its just a hangup I've got.
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Anyway, if she was so drunk that she was out of it and lost recognisance and was taken advantage of, no it's not rape. Sure, she may not have consented, but once you decide to "get hammered, hyuck, it's so fun!", and you impair your mental facilities, it's your own fault.
Sure, the guy shouldn't have done whatever he did, but there's a lot of things that shouldn't happen, but they do. (School shootings, Voyager, Pieces of shit who drive drunk,).
And besides, it's not like she said 'no'.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
------------------
"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
Yes, we were playing pool for a few hours after drinking before we left the bar (its a sports bar, remember?)
The reason being, is she & I didn't think it would be a good idea for me to be getting HIGH ontop of being completely piss drunk.
a) I'd been there for 30 minutes before she got there, so I had a head start on her in beer.
b) we shared a pitcher of Bass Ale (of which I consumed more of her than her), then each had two or three glases/bottles of alcohol
c) we stopped drinking at about the same time
d) the drinking was over by 7:30ish, and started (for me) at 5 (5:30ish for her).
e) we played pool for a couple of hours, and I know we didn't leave Padonia Station until 10ish because I clearly remember the digital clock in her car (I just can't remember if it was 10:15 or 10:51 ...)
Anyway ...
I disagree that if someone goes out and gets smashed they "get whats coming to them" in so many words. That's about as ridiculous as saying a girl walking down a path is raped because she's wearing shorts and a t-shirt and "exposing" too much skin ...
<"sure, she may not have consented">
If someone doesn't consent to sex, I'd tend to think of it as rape, yes?
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 03, 2000).]
There is quite a BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE between wearing sexy pants and being sexually violated and losing reasoning capability ON YOUR OWN VOLITION, and being sexually abused.
This is akin to the difference between:
A) BEING PUSHED into a rodeo arena blindfolded with an irate bull charging at you,
and
B) WILLINGLY CLIMBING into the pit. I have no sympathy for the latter.
TSN: When have you and I ever disagreed?
JEFFK: What's the deal with you and every post bringing up your 'getting high'. Yeah, we read it in the first post. It's not a badge of coolness, or something that impresses anyone. It's sad, really. (Yeah, It was the first time I got high, if I may say so myself.) Yeah, who really gives a shit?
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
I brought it up as to why we stopped drinking. I thought I made that rather clear? No, I don't consider it a badge of coolness, I don't plan on doing it again (er, the marijuana, I rather enjoy getting drunk on some occasions)
Someone has a bit too much to drink and because of that a guy has the right to take advantage of her? And it's her fault? Sorry, Ultra, I don't buy that at all.
Yes, I'm sure it was painful, I lost a cousin to a drunk driver, but maybe you're missing that:
a) We didn't go right from drinking to driving. Yes, that's correct! There was a period of about 3 hours wherein we consumed NO alchohol whatsover! (Ok, fine, I managed to snag a cider jack, but I wasn't driving).
b) She had TWO - maybe THREE - beers (okay, one was a cider jack), and maybe a little less than half a pitcher of Bass (which isn't a very big pitcher, mi amigo -- maybe enough for 4 glasses) -- so she had MAYBE four beers and one cider. After 3 hours she'd still be piss drunk? Ah ... I don't think so (especially as the drinking itself was stretched out to two hours or so).
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 03, 2000).]
It's virtually impossible to go from drunk to sober in a period that short. Unless you've got a liver made out of rubber or something. It's unfortunate that the only person who ever makes judgements as to wether they're OK to drive, is themselves.
On topic, I've never said "they deserve" what they get. Absolutely not, I abhor any type of sexually related abuse. There aren't many things that are lower than the shitheads who do it.
BUT, when you go out, with a mindest to get so totally wasted that you can't remember your own name, and someone comes along and takes advantage of you, perhaps you don't "deserve" it, but I'm not going to cry you a river because you weren't coherent enough to stop it.
If you don't want to get taken advantage of, minimize the chances of your getting in a position that allows you to do so. And usually, that means mental functioning.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
Believe it or not, I am very sorry to hear about your father. But despite the driver's claims to the contrary, I'm sure he had been drinking within the three hours he claimed not to -- or had had a lot more to drink than she did Thursday night. Or, most probably, both.
I don't know if I agree with the "rubber liver" theory, either. Alcohol consumed slowly effects a person less than consumed quickly (if I drink a ciderjack in 5 minutes, I'm more fucked up then if I took an hour to drink it).
There are a lot of factors effecting how alcohol effects a person:
The time period it was consumed in -- did they gulp down the beer, or space it out over a longer period of time? Did they eat before hand? (because if "yes", the person will sober up quicker. Yes, frankly, its very possible for someone to go from drunk (assuming she got drunk from 5 beers, in the first place, I know I did, but I only started drinking when I turned 21 so I have a low tolerance to the stuff) to sober in 3 hours.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
She wasn't drunk.
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You know, the way you act when drinking is hugely influenced on your situation and mood. I go out drinking with mates, we all have a good time, we go dancing, I get drunk pretty quickly. If I go somewhere that's crap, I get less drunk. I'm in a bad mood, I get less drunk. And at the end of the day, if I'm drunk, I'm with people. Usually several. And I don't go to the sort of clubs where people are likely to be assaulted/raped, anyway (if you're going somewhere new, check it out before hand, when you'll be able to tell if it's a club where fights start over the colour of peoples socks.)
"drunk" can be defined in several ways. When I say "I was drunk", I usually mean "I was hugging people and had an overwhelming urge to do kareoke." But drunk also means "impairment of the senses". You drink when you're not in the mood, you might not feel drunk, but your relexes will still be impaired, along with your judgement.
Which, incidentally, is why I never take my car keys out with me when I'm drinking. (Although my current tactic is better. My car is half-way across Britain. That also works. ).
Oh, and girls (generally) handle alcohol less well than guys. (And they're crap drivers too, but that's another rant ).
You do also realise that there's a world of difference between a guy going to a club to pull, and a girl going to a club to pull, don't you? Sexist, maybe, but a drunk girl in the middle of the dance floor might as well be wearing a t-shirt saying "HEY, BOYS, COME TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME!".
(And regarding the girl dressing in revealing clothing-expecting to get raped thing, you are right. But they also complain when people stare at them. What do you think's gonna happen when you dress like a slut, hmm?)
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
As for this thread, I'm out of here. I've said what I think, and that was the point. I don't want to engage in another gun control-type thread, so I'll n'er post o'less.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
If a woman is passed out or stuporous then there is clearly no consent to give therefore any sexual act performed by any male on said woman can very easily be seen as rape.
Saying that, and all the facts about women being able to drink as they please, it is an unfortunate fact of society that women generally need to, and ususally do, take more precautions than men when drinking or drunk to a stupor.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
And I also think that driving after drinking on the grounds that "I think I've waited long enough to be sober" is dispicable, and people who do it ought to be locked away for the safety of the rest of us who aren't dumbfucks.
------------------
"What he did to that walrus gentle-man was inexcusable."
-T. Herman Zweibel on "Mr. Woodrow Wood-pecker", The Onion, 7-Nov-2000
Also remember that you may be "impaired" by alcohol even though you are not over the legal limit. One or two drinks can easily impair your judgement and your reflexes.
So, at a minimum, each drink may affect your motor abilities for two hours, and you would have to add another two hours for each drink consumed.
About the rape thing, every case is different. There are so many factors that seem to be uncertain, so the best thing she can do is not make the same mistake twice, but the way you describe your "party-habits" it sounds like it's up to YOU to look after the both of you.
Do with that as you may...
------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited December 04, 2000).]
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
Thinking about it, if she said a half=hearted "no", then wrapped her legs around him and started body-bumping, does it still count as rape
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
Sort of like the woman who was raped, but managed to get the rapist to put on a condom? Rapist got off because she "consented" if he used a condom ...
Re: drinking
Thursday night was a mistake. I got very very very drunk and found nothing wrong with getting in a car with a driver who was probably intoxicated. There's no excuse for it, and trying to defend any line of reasoning for it is unexcusable. I will be much more careful in the future (although, I can still honestly say that I myself have never gotten behind the wheel of for than automobile drunk -- I keep a pillow and blanket in the tailgate for that very reason).
I lost a cousin to a drunk driver, so as much as others might curse me, I think I'm doing a slightly better job at beating myself over the head at the moment.
------------------
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 04, 2000).]
Y'know, not drinking and driving isn't about you. If there was a way for all drunk drivers to kill themselves without hurting others, I'd be all for it.
Not drinking & driving is more a responsibility to the people outside of your little bar, the people walking home across the street, the friends coming home from a movie, or whatever.
It's not about how responsible YOU are, it's about how much the people outside have the right to get home safely.
JeffK: You still got in the car. Your drunkeness as an excuse for 'well, I was so hammered, I didn't see anything wrong with it' is lazy, and absolutely stupid. That's how people die. Because noone knows better, or they blame their wantonness on ignorance. She most likely had her motor skilled reduced. Enough so that it would've been much more likely for an accident to occur than if she was sober.
Wow, so many good reasons to go out and get fucked! Mmmm, where's my beer?
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.
My thought is, if you go out and get so drunk as to not remember the previous night, you're going to get yourself into some trouble.
As PsyLiam said, if she didn't consent to it, she would almost certainly have felt sore or be bruised. Chances are he was also drunk or at least intoxicated to some point meaning neither was mentally capable of consenting at the time.
I've been drinking before but NEVER drove. Also, I never get myself drunk enough to forget the previous occurences, or to be so impaired I couldn't walk reasonably.
There's a difference between merely drunk and being pissed/plastered/wasted which sounds like what your friend did.
It's good your friend is at peace but the fact you both went drinking then later went isn't any better than what happened before. It's just as dangerous if not more so since you're in a vehicle capable of causing more damage than to just one or two people.
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[6th Sense] I see dumbass people [/6th Sense]
Therefore, a person that faints from drinking should never be left unattended. They could, among other things, stop breathing.
Now I like to party, but I don't presume to think I have a good judgement after much gulping, so it's good to have safety-nets.
------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
There has not been, from your account, any strong evidence that anybody raped anybody during the incident in question.
The fact that alcohol is in inhibition-remover muddles the question further. We do things whilst 'in our cups' that we wouldn't do normally, including sleep with people we normally wouldn't be interested in. (or in some cases, people who we ARE interested in, who normally wouldn't be interesed in US, sleep with us. It happens. I know.)
When one loses one's memory of the events, it's generally an indication that a whole LOT of alcohol was consumed, with a corresponding decrease in inhibitions. So it's possible that she willingly jumped into be with the guy, and has forgotten it. I know of times when this has happened.
It's also possible that she was taken advantage of. But so far, it's an unsubstantiated claim. Its likelihood depends greatly upon the 'honor' of the man in question. (Frankly, I can't se how somebody who is 'passed out' would be at all an enjoyable partner, but I do understand that there are some people out there so despicable that they'll do anything and take anything they can to get some. Such people should be killed.)
As for drunk driving... I can forgive just about anything... once. Drunk driving is despicable, because everybody KNOWS these things don't go together.
However, I can understand that fuzzy area where you think you're recovered, but you might really not be. I remember coming home from an after-work party where I had imbibed one Long Island Iced Tea two hours before, and felt pretty certain that it had worked its way out of my system. About thirty seconds on the road gave me reason to think possibly it was otherwise, so I pulled over and rested for another hour, at the end of which I really WAS fine.
But anybody caught drunk driving a second time should be pulled out of their car, tied to the bumper, and drug along a stretch of highway until they disintegrate.
------------------
"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
Even if you wanted to drive, there'd be nowhere to park your car. Clubs don't tend to have big car parks.------------------
"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
------------------
"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"I suppose it's possible my mother is a product of my imagination, but that raises more questions than it solves, really."
-Simon Sizer, 4-Dec-2000
When the hell are people going to get back to reality?
------------------
Sean Robertson
[email protected]
http://www.webolutionary.com
http://www.mania-online.com
3D Gladiator Premier Forums Member
"Great is the glory for the strife is hard"
- Wordsworth
"Why must I be surrounded by frickin' idiots?"
- Dr Evil
------------------
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------------------
"I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
I DO understand drinking till you're tipsy and silly and laughing your damn fool head off at everything that happens, BUT you have the presence of mind to stop.
Like kids who spin round till they fall over, it's FUN.
I quit because I realized I was liking it a bit TOO much.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
Now, I used to drink alot, when I first came to Towson U. It's not a party school for nothing (and Playboy rated it #3 for hot babes), and I happen to live at a "Partyplex", so its pretty much a non-stop drinking frenzy here. We actually had some idiot pull out an assault rifle (the news said an AK-47, I kinda doubt that) a few months ago and threaten some kids ... and then the other dumbass who pushed some guy through a sliding-glass door ...
Right.
But I don't drink as much anymore -- Thursday was the first night I've gotten drunk since probably mid-September. Beer adds a lot to the beer gut, and I've been working out for two hours a day three days a week to trim that off, so I try not to add to it all that often 
Besides, playing pool while drunk is very fun. Then again, watching Monty Python & The Holy Grail is quite fun as well ...
Of course, there are more serious issues. The U.S., for all its statements that it is not, is a country that accepts drunk drivers ... I'm not saying that it should, because it shouldn't ... but if the U.S. was actually SERIOUS about keeping drunks off the road, neither "Carrie" or I should've been able to walk to the car, much less out of the bar! And yet we did. What does that say about society?
If I were to walk into a crowded shopping mall with an assault rifle tucked under my coat, someone would stop me and say, "excuse me, are you planning on using that assault rifle to kill many people?"
But I walk out of a bar, and no one stops us to say, "pardon me, you two aren't driving are you?"
Of course, with the way some people around here drive, I'm not sure sober drivers are the way to go either.
(I'm not saying this as an excuse for what happened, just that we here in the US* are very good at blaming drunk drivers after tragedies and not at stopping them from getting on the road in the first place...)
* - Maybe things are different in the parts of the US you're from, I really don't know ...
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 05, 2000).]
And I mean JUST me. Or so it seems here.
Goddamn hicks.
Plus, I've been kinda turned off of drinking (before I even started) after I lost my Dad.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited December 05, 2000).]
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"I suppose it's possible my mother is a product of my imagination, but that raises more questions than it solves, really."
-Simon Sizer, 4-Dec-2000
That's about the furtherest I go, then I stop, sober a bit before drinking again.
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[6th Sense] I see dumbass people [/6th Sense]
:-)
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"I suppose it's possible my mother is a product of my imagination, but that raises more questions than it solves, really."
-Simon Sizer, 4-Dec-2000
Of course, my drinking days DID reveal to me that I COULD let myself go a little and get away with it. I mean, I used to be the kind of person who froze solid in any social situation. Especially bad around attractive females. I'd HIDE. I was the prototype for the Al Gore 'stiff' routine.
Pat: "Rob, meet Lisa."
Rob's Brain: Lisa is very pretty! FREEZE!
Rob: "Uh, 'lo."
Rob's Brain: END TRANS! END TRANS! CORE DUMP! *Sound of a motor siezing up*
Rob: "Gotta go now, bye."
Lisa: *sigh*
Pat: "D'oh! Okay, Lisa, meet Steve..."
but once I learned to drink in some slight moderation, things began to change. And once I realized THAT, I figured out I could do it without the alcohol, and gave it up, and so...
Pat: "Rob, meet Christine."
Rob's Brain: Whoa! Very pretty!
Rob: *blink* "Goodness, Christine, you're BEAUTIFUL! Pat, what are you doing, inflicting someone like me upon this lovely, kind, intelligent person?"
Pat: "Rob, Christine's a Star trek fan."
Rob: "RE-ally? What series?"
Christine: "Well, I was a big fan of TNG, but I just started watching DS9."
Rob's Brain: Woo-hoo!
*Rob and Christine walk off into the sunset together, carring on a conversation. Tune in next time to see who nudges whom awake*
Of course, this is only a simulation using one conversational criterion. Although similar incidents did occur, I didn't meet up with a compatible Star Trek Femme until just over three years ago.
------------------
"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
------------------
Sean Robertson
[email protected]
http://www.webolutionary.com
http://www.mania-online.com
3D Gladiator Premier Forums Member
"Great is the glory for the strife is hard"
- Wordsworth
"Why must I be surrounded by frickin' idiots?"
- Dr Evil
------------------
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So, guns eh? Tsk, what's up with that?
As a side note, I do go out and drink fairly often, with usually at least one night a week where I might get very drunk, or not, depending on the situation, and I'd never, ever think of driving.
But then, British universities wouldn't be, well, British, if one night of the week didn't feature loads of very drunk students jumping up and down to "Don't Look Back in Anger", or hugging each other all misty-eyed at the end of the evening while "Thankyou for the music plays". Or satnd around in clubs listening to house while screaming "This is bangin'!" at the tops of their voices.
Although I still don't get the fascination Liverpool has with "It's raining men".
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
quote:
4 Teens Charged in Rape of Unconscious Girl, 16Courts: The victim, a friend of the alleged assailants, had passed out drinking at party, police say.
By EVELYN LARRUBIA; TIMES STAFF WRITER
Four San Fernando Valley teenagers were charged Wednesday with sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl who had passed out drinking alcohol during a daytime party at a student's home in Van Nuys.
The girl, who police said was a friend of her alleged assailants, was found unconscious Friday in a bedroom, her body covered with bruises, cuts and bites. She had been raped and sodomized by at least six people, witnesses told police. She awoke hours later at a Woodland Hills hospital and said she did not remember what happened.
Nathaniel Sanchez, 18, was charged Wednesday with one felony count of attempted rape of an unconscious person. The Van Nuys man was being held at County Jail in lieu of $55,000 bail. Prosecutors also filed charges of rape and sodomy of an unconscious person against two boys, ages 16 and 17, and are requesting that they be tried as adults. A 14-year-old boy was charged
in Juvenile Court with attempted rape and sodomy.Authorities would not release the names of the accused juveniles. Police said they all attend Birmingham High School in Van Nuys and belong to the same tagging crew�a group of graffiti vandals.
Police are investigating the roles of three other teenage boys and said more charges might follow. A medical examination of the girl yielded evidence of sexual assault, police said, but identifying attackers through DNA testing could take weeks.
"At least six [sexually assaulted her] but there may be others," said Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Lt. Horace Frank. "Once we continue with the investigation, with the interviews, we will have a better picture in terms of the total number."
Julie Korenstein, a Los Angeles Board of Education member who represents the area, said, "For anyone to affirm their manhood by attacking another human being is so grievous and despicable."
Authorities said about 15 truants, including the girl, started drinking alcohol Friday morning at the house of one of the students. Police said the boy's parents were at work.
"They were all skipping school," Frank said. "They were all friends. She was part of this tagging group."
The girl passed out, and the other students took turns assaulting her, Frank said. Deputy Dist. Attys. Eduards Abele and Alan Yochelson said there is no evidence so far that the girl was given drugs.
Someone at the house found the girl that afternoon in the bedroom and paged one of her friends, Yochelson said. After arriving, the girl's friends took her home when they could not wake her. The girl's father took her to Kaiser Permanente Hospital in Woodland Hills,
Yochelson said.She was still unconscious when she was admitted at 6 p.m. Friday, hospital officials said. Her body was covered with bite marks, abrasions and bruises, and a medical examination revealed that she had been sexually assaulted, Kaiser spokeswoman Lisa Kort said. Police were called about two hours later.
The next day, the girl was transferred to another hospital, where, prosecutors said, a more extensive rape examination was performed. She was later discharged.
Yochelson said one juvenile, the party host, was arrested Friday but released without being charged. Two other juveniles were arrested Monday but have not been charged. All three boys denied any involvement to police. The party's host said he was with another girl at the time of the alleged attack, Yochelson said.
Proposition 21, passed earlier this year, allows prosecutors to charge juveniles as adults in violent crimes. This case does not qualify because the rape was not by force, Yochelson said. For the minor defendants to be tried as adults, a Juvenile Court judge would have to find them unfit to stand trial as juveniles.
Birmingham High does not allow its students to leave campus during the day, said officials at the Los Angeles Unified School District. Two school police officers are assigned there.
But students at schools across Los Angeles regularly cut class for daytime parties, said Robert Ivey, an assistant watch commander for the district's police department. "When you've got a group of kids who want to ditch school, they're going to. If there aren't adults standing shoulder to shoulder, surrounding the perimeter fences, somebody's going to go over the fence."
Rumors flew Wednesday at Birmingham as students learned of the attack. School officials made no announcements to students or parents. Principal Gerald Kleinman did not return telephone calls seeking comment.
"Just like everybody else, I'm trying to figure out what happened," said Jesten Hayman, 17, a senior.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited December 07, 2000).]
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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
There was witnesses to this and they didn't bother to STOP this from happening?
Quatre.
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"Omae o korusu..." - Heero Yuy
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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Sean Robertson
[email protected]
http://www.webolutionary.com
http://www.mania-online.com
3D Gladiator Premier Forums Member
"Great is the glory for the strife is hard"
- Wordsworth
"Why must I be surrounded by frickin' idiots?"
- Dr Evil
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"I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
Seems pretty integral to me.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
Quatre
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"Omae o korusu..." - Heero Yuy
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"I suppose it's possible my mother is a product of my imagination, but that raises more questions than it solves, really."
-Simon Sizer, 4-Dec-2000
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
**The speech I SHOULD have given in sociology class when the prof tried to justify rape by claiming that men were susceptible to 'enticement.'**
"I don't CARE what the girl was doing. She could be walking past you in a slinky black outfit. She could be passed out on the sofa. She could be up on the goddamned table dancing naked squeezing her boobs together shouting "look at Meeeee!"
It STILL doesn't give you the right to touch her if she doesn't want you to.
If you can't control your primitive mating impulses, you don't DESERVE to be considered human. DIE."
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
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Homer: "I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, Superman!"
I feel sorry for the girl, but I also see her as a fool who did a stupid thing and has paid dearly for it.
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[6th Sense] I see dumbass people [/6th Sense]
I think the girl, however, has been punished enough. Gang-raped ... if she's smart, she'll knock off the underage drinking. Or at the very least tone it down.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 08, 2000).]
I couldn't stand the guy. But I exacted a small revenge by writing a pro-private ownership of firearms paper that was so well-done that it forced him to give me an 'A' on it, even though he desperately didn't want to.
Truthfully, nobody in the class ever registered a contrary opinion to his, because they didn't want to risk the twin stigmas of labeling and flunking.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master