Here's an article on the new Iraqi flag with a picture. All I have to say is that this may be the worst marketing idea since "New" Coke. Who was the genius who decided that an Arab flag should have Israeli colors? And designing it in London? As Gilbert Gottfried would say: "What the F***?!" Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Utterly horrible. The Iraqis should keep their original three-star flag and keep the pan-Arab colors. If they want to take out the Arabic script, that's fine, but if they want to keep it, that's fine as well.
I just hope they don't accept this one.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:I just hope they don't accept this one.
How much choice do you think the Iraqi people are going to have in that decision?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, as far as I know, it's already been "accepted" as far as the IGC is concerned. I'm sure that, as soon as the elected government comes into power next year, they'll change it back (or to something else).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Fuck em! We didint even make their flag Red, White and Blue! And we let them keep that silly moon!
Ingrates!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It seems to be a very badly designed flag, and I don't understand the timing of it. You'd think there's enough resistance already to the occupation, without Bremer and Co. forcing a new national symbol.
First of all.. it looks like the Israeli flag. Which is unspeakably stupid.
Second.. Why the Kurds on the flag? Why not the other groups? Why even mention specific ethnic groups on a flag?
And thirdly.. the Pan-Arab colors *have* to be there.
Everyone with a computer and half an hour of time could've made a better effort.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
That is, everyone with a computer and half an hour of time and an understanding of the history of the region that goes back further than, oh, 1991.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I would have made it a picture of a monkey. Because, let's face it, who doesn't love monkeys?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I don't care about significance of the history of the flag or what each symbol, line or colour looks like - as flags go it is just SHITE!
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Well.. at least, they'll be burning the Iraqi flag, instead of the US flag.
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
I hate monkeys. At least those little shits in pirate movies, that always do cutesy human stuff, pointing or pretending to laugh, I'd like to barbecue those little einsteins. The date-eating one in "Raiders of the lost ark" had it coming.
Back to flags, what flag did they use first, at the beginning of Iraq's state history, in 1921?
Did they have a flag when they were called Mesopotamia, up until 1260AD?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
No, they'll be burning both of them.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Talk about trying to kick a guy when he's down....
This is all in preperation for making them American citizens, so they can bomb themselves silly.....
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Everyone with a computer and half an hour of time could've made a better effort.
But everyone else wouldn't be the brother of the IGC guy in charge of creating a new Iraqi flag. How do you say "nepotism" in Arabic?
Marian
Posted by Highway Hoss (Member # 1289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: It seems to be a very badly designed flag, and I don't understand the timing of it. You'd think there's enough resistance already to the occupation, without Bremer and Co. forcing a new national symbol.
Well, in a way that flag is a quite appropriate symbol of the cluelessness of the people who started this whole rotten misadventure.
quote:Originally posted by Harry: First of all.. it looks like the Israeli flag. Which is unspeakably stupid.
No kidding! Talk about provocative...and stupid besdies.
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Second.. Why the Kurds on the flag? Why not the other groups? Why even mention specific ethnic groups on a flag?
Because the Kurds alone have supported the US throughtout this ampaign so the designers figured they deserve a little something.
quote:Originally posted by Harry: And thirdly.. the Pan-Arab colors *have* to be there.
Well, the US government has never been a big fan of Pan-Arabism anyway so I am not suprised.
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Everyone with a computer and half an hour of time could've made a better effort.
...plus a knowledge of vexillology (study of flags) and at least some respect for the Iraqi people.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The knowledge gained by browsing Google en Wikipedia are enough to make something better.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Of course, I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to flags. I'm not too fond of the American flag. The symbolism/meaning is fine, but the execution is pretty unimaginative. At least the UK had the happy accident of the three flags comprising the Union Jack making a rather aesthetic juxtaposition. I like Israel, I like Greece, I like(d) the Japanese military ensigns... I also like the flags of the Arab Leage and the United Nations.
As far as this goes...? I like the new design better than the previous design, but I also think it needs more work. Something encompassing the history and contributions of Iraq/Mesopotamia/Babylon... Like a starfield over an oilfield, bordered by the Tigris and Euphrates, with the Crescent Moon of Islam overlooking it all... *shrug* Dark blue or black with scattered white stars of varying sizes in the top half, yellow or ochre with black isoceles triangles in the bottom half, and at the vertical edge (from hoist to fly) a thin vertical stripe of yellow or ochre, a wider vertical stripe of medium blue, and a thin vertical stripe of medium green -- mirrored on the other vertical edge. Now would the moon be straddling the border between top and bottom halves, or firmly in the starfield?
Someone with PSP or PhotoShop want to whip together a quick pass of this for me and slap it up in the Designs section?
--Jonah
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
My vote is for a big Red and Yellow flag with a huge M on it!!!
But in all seriousness... umm.. I think the new flag should be up to the new Iraqi Gov't to decide - if they can every stop blowing themselves up long enough to come up with one.. but i don't think its up to other country to come up with a National Symbol for an occupied territory....
I still like my idea for the flag tho'.. If they wanna "westernize" the Middle-East - what better way to do it than to make their flag a McDonald's flag.. HAIL THE BIG MAC...
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
Here's something I found regarding former flag-submissions.
Apparently this is the flag of the Chaldeans, the people inhabiting the region (Iraq) during the height of its power, under King Nebuchadnezzar II, in the ancient world.
Not that far off from the new one, eh?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Except for the fact that it looks even more like the Israeli flag.
Oh, and it's actually the modern flag of the people identifying with the Chaldaeans. It's not actually a flag that dates back to ancient Babylonia.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, it looks like they gave in to public pressure and they're not going to go with that design.
They're going to use a darker blue.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Really, what are the reasons they're sooo afraid of their flag resembling Israels?
It's not as though hostilities exist between the peaceful nations of the east or anything.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Why not invert the colours?
I don't like having that one flag squashed down the bottom.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
I thought this would fit in well.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Funny, but denying the reality.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Really, what are the reasons they're sooo afraid of their flag resembling Israels?"
Um... I can only guess that it has something to do with the fact that, as far as the Iraqis are concerned, this flag is little better than if George Bush had taken a big shit in the middle of their old flag and said "There's your new flag, ass-face.".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You did get that that was sarcasm, right?
Y'know, based on the rest of my post mentioning "It's not as though hostilities exist between the peaceful nations of the east or anything"
Though really, you'd think they'd welcome a any flag over the one that stood for repression, mass murder and terror.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
The option is still open as of yet TSN.....
Posted by Highway Hoss (Member # 1289) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Though really, you'd think they'd welcome a any flag over the one that stood for repression, mass murder and terror.
Myabe....IF the flag had been designed by a native Iraqi and approved by a truly indigenous and independent Iraqi government. What angered Iraqis was that the flag was changed by a group of exparaites and approved by what is in Iraqi eyes an illegal occupation government.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Go simple, like Libya's flag.
Umm, the cartoon above was lost on me - must be an American thing?
Forget the Israeli flag thing - looks more like Microsoft colours.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...you'd think they'd welcome a any flag over the one that stood for repression, mass murder and terror."
Which is exactly what the new flag stands for in the eyes of a good many Iraqis. Hence their protests against it.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe it comes down to - a lot of humans are afraid of change.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I don't get the joke either.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Though really, you'd think they'd welcome a any flag over the one that stood for repression, mass murder and terror.
As that web-site pointed out, the state flag of Georgia has things on it that don't stand for the best of ideals, and that hasn't changed.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Georgia's flag did change. A year ago.
And I'm not so sure why the cartoon is difficult to understand. People outside the US do know what Halliburton is, don't they?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Haliburton is a Big Giant Company that has uhmm.. 'won' major rebuilding deals in Iraq. Or something.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
How did I miss that gem of a cartoon? lol Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
It is a company that our 'great' VP was once in charge of, that has gotten a lot of good contracts.....
Although he swears that he had broken all ties years ago.....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: And I'm not so sure why the cartoon is difficult to understand. People outside the US do know what Halliburton is, don't they?
Possibly. I have been surprisingly slow on the uptake recently, which I blame on finals.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Although he swears that he had broken all ties years ago....."
Despite the fact that they're still paying him...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Man.... I wonder how many people (besides myself) will end up voting for Kerry just to vote out weasels like Cheney?
Wose yet, as I've heard no real plans from Kerry besides "not repeating any of Bush's mistakes".
We might get somone just as bad or worse. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I wonder how many people (besides myself) will end up voting for Kerry just to vote out weasels like Cheney?"
I, for one.
"We might get somone just as bad or worse."
Hardly possible. Unless Kerry is, like, the reincarnation of Stalin. And I'm sure we would have seen some evidence by now.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Hardly possible. Unless Kerry is, like, the reincarnation of Stalin. And I'm sure we would have seen some evidence by now.
His "French" demeanor and looks aren't indication enough for you?
[ May 01, 2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I just really really want to know who Kerry will place in Powell, RIce and Cheney's positions.
It's not too much to ask for with so much riding on those potential officeholders, really.
My fear is that Kerry has NO idea who will fill those slots.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: My fear is that Kerry has NO idea who will fill those slots.
Why is that exactly?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"It's not too much to ask for with so much riding on those potential officeholders, really."
Dude, he's not even officially the candidate yet. The election is half-a-year away. Trust me, you'll at least know his vice-presidential candidate in plenty of time for the actual vote.
Though, personally, I'd like my Twelfth Amendment right to vote for president and vice-president separately.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Though, personally, I'd like my Twelfth Amendment right to vote for president and vice-president separately.
Those were the days.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
The resistance is using the Iraqi flag flown between the end of British occupation and Saddam's tinkering, adding words saying God is Great or words to that effect, thus reinforcing that they, the insurgents, are fighting for a free Iraq. This new flag, discussed in this thread, is coming to define those who believe in and work for the Americans and their allies.
Posted by Highway Hoss (Member # 1289) on :
quote:Originally posted by newark: The resistance is using the Iraqi flag flown between the end of British occupation and Saddam's tinkering, adding words saying God is Great or words to that effect, thus reinforcing that they, the insurgents, are fighting for a free Iraq. This new flag, discussed in this thread, is coming to define those who believe in and work for the Americans and their allies.
Actually the script for "God is great" was added to the flag by Saddam himself as a means of showing he was a good Muslim (since the Ba'ath party was a secular party.) ...as for the insurgents, I am not suprised; IMHO the occupation authorites made another egerious blunder by presuming to design a flag rather than leave such a decision to any future Iraqi government. Of course as I said before, the new flag is a perfect symbol of the regard these people show to the Iraqi population...
Posted by Highway Hoss (Member # 1289) on :
quote: It is a measure of how far the Governing Council is out of touch with ordinary Iraqi opinion that they should have voted to change the flag in the first place. Mohammed, an engineer trying to patch up a broken sewage pipe in Baghdad, still had time to express his fury at the change. "Of course the occupation is a disaster," he said. "We understand the Governing Council are American agents. But a man has to be the worst of collaborators to change his country's flag."
In a way though that flag may end up being a perfect symbol of one of the biggest disasters in US foriegn policy history; IMHO the neocon-artists who got us into this mess should be tarred and feathered and run out of the country...preferably to Geneva to stand trial for instigating war crimes.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"I wonder how many people (besides myself) will end up voting for Kerry just to vote out weasels like Cheney?"
I, for one.
Now, if you'd just done that the last time, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Also, "dude"?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Actually, Liam, a LOT of prople did exactly that last time: everyone sick of Clinton voted either for Nader out of spite or for Bush, hoping for some positive change.
Didint work out exactly as planned.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: My fear is that Kerry has NO idea who will fill those slots.
Why is that exactly?
Because I've seen three interviews where Kerry was asked that exact question and he seemed caught completely off-guard. As if he never expected be asked at all (and after he's been so critical of the job Powell and Rice have done).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: It is a company that our 'great' VP was once in charge of, that has gotten a lot of good contracts.....
Although he swears that he had broken all ties years ago.....
Thanks Ritten, and others. Maybe I haven't been paying as much attention to your vice president's antics.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam:
Also, "dude"?
I think he's trying to score points with the teenage demographic - or the stoners Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: It is a company that our 'great' VP was once in charge of, that has gotten a lot of good contracts.....
Although he swears that he had broken all ties years ago.....
Thanks Ritten, and others. Maybe I haven't been paying as much attention to your vice president's antics.
Intrestingly enough, they've gotten the same great contracts no matter who was president. Kellon, Brown and Root (Halliburton subcompany) has supplied logistics services to the Army since 1992 (Bush - not president).
They were granted a $900 million dollar contract to be the SOLE provider of logistics and support to all troops in the Hungary, Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, and Bosnia.
Of course, the whole Balkan War thing was just a front to secure pipeline routes to the Caspian area... didn't you know that?
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Ritten: It is a company that our 'great' VP was once in charge of, that has gotten a lot of good contracts.....
Although he swears that he had broken all ties years ago.....
Thanks Ritten, and others. Maybe I haven't been paying as much attention to your vice president's antics.
Intrestingly enough, they've gotten the same great contracts no matter who was president. Kellon, Brown and Root (Halliburton subcompany) has supplied logistics services to the Army since 1992 (Bush - not president).
They were granted a $900 million dollar contract to be the SOLE provider of logistics and support to all troops in the Hungary, Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, and Bosnia.
Of course, the whole Balkan War thing was just a front to secure pipeline routes to the Caspian area... didn't you know that?
Explain, please...?
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Which part???
About Dick being a great VP? His being once associated with Haliburton? People not paying attention to our VP? The various contracts already held by said company? Or the pipeline remark?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: Explain, please...?
Well, see, Halliburton is THE biggest logistics supplier in the world. It's pretty much done everything for the US since Vietnam, and it's done the same thing for other folks as well.
Anytime one company does something more/better than anybody else, whether it's Halliburton or Microsoft, the paranoids crawl out of the woodwork looking for The Next Big Conspiracy (The Freemasons having been exposed as a bunch of old men in aprons who couldn't take over a K-Mart).
As for the Kosovo war being for Oil... I don't believe it myself, but there's plenty of ...people... who do:
"Now, if you'd just done that the last time, we wouldn't be in this mess."
Well, not so much so. Bush won Missouri by almost 80 000 votes. Besides, I didn't know at the time that he was a megalomaniac with a messiah complex and delusions of imperialism.
"Also, 'dude'?"
I dunno. It seemed right at the time.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I dunno. It seemed right at the time.
The last line in most criminal confessions.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Thankfully, use of the word "dude" is not yet criminal.
Well, wait. I never did finish reading all of the Patriot Act...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Objecting to the Patriot Act is now criminal behavior punishible by incarceration without legal representation or right to trial.
Sarcasm or grim prediction of future events? You make the call.
Posted by Highway Hoss (Member # 1289) on :
Here's a BBC article on Iraqi reaction to the new flag. Not suprisingly, reaction has been largely negative, though there were a few who favored it. Some Iraqis wondered at the Council's sense of priorities.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:"This new flag adds to the list - we have a new flag which has similar colour markings to that of the Israeli flag? Coincidence? Highly unlikely!"
Tariq Abdel-Fattah, a Bagdadi living in the US, also notices a similarity which he says "makes me shiver since it resembles the death to Arabs".
It seems that not only is the govorning council focusing on the wrong things, but the Iraqi people as well!
"Similar colors"? Sure: just change the shade of blue, remove the stripes, swap the crescent moon for a star of david....real close.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Now, if you'd just done that the last time, we wouldn't be in this mess."
Well, not so much so. Bush won Missouri by almost 80 000 votes. Besides, I didn't know at the time that he was a megalomaniac with a messiah complex and delusions of imperialism.
You obviously weren't paying attention to the same reports as everyone else. Silly boy.
Besides, couldn't you claim 80,000 votes, due to your size?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I dunno. It seemed right at the time.
The last line in most criminal confessions.
Hopefully not Shik's! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
This week's comedy lessons: timing and relevance.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: This week's comedy lessons: timing and relevance.
Awwwww, dude, I hate that class.....
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by newark: The resistance is using the Iraqi flag flown between the end of British occupation...
I think the term protectorate is prefered...
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
We prefer Army of Liberation of Army of Occupation, but if the shoe fits we wear it....
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