Well, either a new pope's been selected, or the Cardinals have sighted a herd of buffalo.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Think it's Ratzinger (sp?)?
Papal Robes... Chamber of Tears... I love how closely this whole process follows scriptural precedent.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Yep. Pope Benedict XVI.
A German taking over from a Pole. And they say history doesn't repeat itself... Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Next he'll go and see some Sea Lions with Barbarossa.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
I wonder what made them choose him, since he was the one least likely to win in the latest diagram I saw on ze subject.
Thoguts?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
There was speculation that they would elect an "old" pope that will have a short papacy and serve as a transitional one for the next pope who will be a radical departure from John Paul II. Or something like that.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I thought Ratzinger was the leading candidate to be the next Kai all along. From what my coworker tells me he's uberConservative and fairly obnoxious.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I can't figure that out either. An 84 year old pope dies and they elect an 78 year old one? Brillant!
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
No surprise at all. Ratzinger is very conservative and will continue to support and defend church doctrine.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
So, the most powerful German since Hitler, then. . .
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
If you consider the pope powerful... Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Nim: not so much that he was unlikely to win so much as his short suit being relations with Islam and ecumenism, both critical problems for the church right now. However, he has a lot of long suits to match: street cred for fighting radical materialistic secularism, militant relativism, and experience in cleaning up the church's hierarchy. (On the latter, his latest task was working on the sex abuse scandels. Expect to see him going at the filth there very quickly.)
Topher: correct on a short papacy. B16 has a family history of heart problems, and he's 78. The odds are very against a 20 year pontificate. However, with medical technology getting so good, I think the idea some people have a 5-10 year one ought to consider a strong possibility of a 10-15 year one.
Aban: obnoxious if you mean he won't back down on core teachings that the church is simply not going to give way on (however you feel on them). The man himself, though, is said to be pretty humble. Very academic. He wrote only about 190 books (yes, one hundred ninety; I have to check on the exact figure). I only learned yesterday he had been begging JP2 for years to let him resign as Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. The late pope would not allow it.
Topher (again): powerful office indeed. JP2 had a hand in bringing down the evil empire. Although taking down Darth Brehnev and his successors, perhaps he should have been called Jedi Master Karwo Kawad. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith."
Until last century, known as "the Holy Office of the Inquisition". No joke.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't mean anything by it. Those were the words of the coworker I mentioned. I have zero knowledge of the man and very little more interest.
I also don't understand how the leader of a church can be so heavily involved in politics and still claim to be following Christian teaching. But this isn't in the Flameboard, so I digress... Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: If you consider the pope powerful...
Considering his words will be able to influence the beliefs of 1 billion Catholics...yeah, that's pretty powerful.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Aban: didn't mean for that to be taken as hostile if it appeared so. Sorry if it came across wrong.
We'll hear lots more about this. Well, actually, we already are! Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...street cred for fighting radical materialistic secularism, militant relativism..."
You throw the words "radical" and "militant" around like you want to say something about secularism and relativism, but I don't see much substance of non-creepy-fundamentalist tone behind them, counsel.
Also, the last person to seriously refer to the Soviet Union as "the evil empire" died a while back.
Simon, we're headed for a fall.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, I think we're heading towards a wave of social conservatism as the world comes to realize that all these ominous-sounding technological developments we hear about in the news have essentially happened already, and the fact that we are living in a world where our historical models no longer apply will, perversely, encourage us to grab hold of those models even more tightly.
That, and the Flameboard. (Not because of the nature of this thread's discourse, but these sorts of grand questions are more its style.)
(It's flattering to think that our concerns are unique, and that our historical models really are broken in ways that prior eras' were not, but I do not pretend to know if this is actually the case, and I am always wary of, like, chronocentrism. At any rate the Catholic Church has weathered fierce storms of technosocial change before.)
Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :
Like the Renaissance. And at that time, the Catholic Church turned to its more conservative elements and adopted them in a hundred years' period. Sign of the times...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
A German Pope! Sweet: I can only hope Rammstein plays the coronation.
Hmmm...I wonder...mabye we can record the ceremony and dub in the wedding music from Flash Gordon...
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Yeah right, Rammstein, the only German rock band that is more popular in the US than in Germany... Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Sweet: I can only hope Rammstein plays the coronation.
Suuuure. Especially when he said this:
quote:Thus spoke Darth Ratzinger: In many forms of religion, music is associated with frenzy and ecstasy. Such music lowers the barriers of individuality and personality, and in it man liberates himself from the burden of consciousness....this type in rock and pop music, whose festivals are an anti-cult with the same tendency...is the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the Redemption. Accordingly, it is only logical that in this area diabolical cults and demonic musics are on the increase today, and their dangerous power of deliberately destroying personality is not yet taken seriously enough...
Posted by lennier1 (Member # 1309) on :
Darth Ratzinger? Doesn�t sound too strange. After all he and Palpatine not only think alike but they even look alike! Proof: http://www.venardhi.com/temp/popatine.jpg
Serious: There have been cavemen with more modern worldview than this guy! He�ll only last a short time but it sure won�t become boring.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Apparently, he's known as the Panzercardinal. It remains to be seen whether they'll redesign the popemobile to take this into account.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Sands: Aban: didn't mean for that to be taken as hostile if it appeared so. Sorry if it came across wrong.
I didn't take it as hostile. I just wanted to make it clear that it was someone else's opinion. I have little knowledge about the man, and therefore have no opinion. And since I'm not Catholic (and have a hard time having a non-escalating conversation about the Catholic Church in general) I don't have a great deal of interest in the guy specifically. Though I'm interested to see how he will effect larger issues.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Cartman: Didn't have time to go into it very far. Plus, this not being the Flameboard, I didn't want to say something too provocative. But if it helps explain what I wrote (which on second look makes less sense than when I wrote it), this quote from B16's homily as dean of the college gets at what irks him about relativism and the less savory attributes of modernity.
quote: The little ship bearing the thoughts of many Christians has frequently been shaken by these waves, thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertarianism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and so on. Every day new sects arise, and St. Paul's words concerning the deception of men and the cunning that leads into error come true. Having a clear faith, according to the Creed of the Church, is often labeled as fundamentalism. While relativism, in other words allowing oneself to be "tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine," appears as the only attitude appropriate to modern times, a dictatorship of relativism is being formed, one that recognizes nothing as definitive and that has as its measure only the self and its desires.
This has been on the church's mind now for some time, especially the European cardinals. (To get back to the original context of what I wrote) that's why his election wasn't so out of left field. For the ecumenalists and Catholic Social Thought folks, he came as quite a surprise. But for those who worry about losing JP2's legacy, the failing faith of Europe, and the American sex abuse scandels, he had the exact background they wanted in the man occupying the post.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:this not being the Flameboard
Looks like someone missed a memo. . .
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Yep, noticed that when I went back to the main page.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
On the surface, I agree with what he's saying about the maintaining of adherence to beliefs despite the fact that society's views change. Simply because an idea is no longer popular doesn't mean it's bad. It all depends on where the idea originated and how badly it's been perverted.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
David: so, to summarize, everyone should have an absolute, unquestioning faith, and preferably an absolute Catholic faith, because adopting any other, more balanced, weighted stance is selfish? I'm afraid I don't quite follow the good Panzerpope's reasoning there.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Dave's not being snitty. Don't get on him.
Unquestioning faith is not scriptural either. Faith is an "assured expectation". It's based on knowledge and reasoning, not on someone saying "this is the way it is, now don't think about it."
That said, a belief is a belief precisely because you are convinced of its truthfulness. Holding onto beliefs that are based on something good even though they're not popular is not a bad thing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: On the surface, I agree with what he's saying about the maintaining of adherence to beliefs despite the fact that society's views change. Simply because an idea is no longer popular doesn't mean it's bad. It all depends on where the idea originated and how badly it's been perverted.
In the case of leviticus, it's the original ideas that's badly perverted. Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Aban: eloquently put.
What I'm reading in an "absolute" faith is one not grounded in rational deliberation. Sadly, this is not an area I'm not yet well read enough in to speak very intelligently. (Will be soon, though, as soon as I can finish getting a grasp on Lincoln.) However, one of the few pieces I've read is a very good article by Robert P. George on how faith can be defended on the basis of reason (not merely revelation). I'd recommend it to anyone.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Looks like we're in trouble with the German press:
quote: Your headlines stink of the devil, Fleet Street told By Kate Connolly (Filed: 22/04/2005)
Germany's newspapers rounded on their British counterparts yesterday, accusing Fleet Street of slurring the new pope simply because he is German.
"Hitler Youth - English insult German Pope", complained Bild, the country's best-selling tabloid, upset at British papers' sensationalised excitement at Pope Benedict XVI's past membership of the Nazi-era organisation. "The world is celebrating the new Pope - while the English bitch!" Bild protested.
The paper singled out for special opprobrium the Sun for its headline "From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi", and the Daily Mirror for its jibe at the "Panzer Cardinal".
One Bild commentator even suggested that British editors had let the devil "slip into the newsroom".
Addressing the Sun and the Daily Mirror Franz Josef Wagner wrote that the day after the pope's appointment readers of British tabloids "must have thought Hitler had been elected Pope".
"Your headlines stink of the devil, of sulphur and rotten eggs," he raged.
"Obviously, you complex English consider every Kraut to be a Nazi, even if he's Pope".
The Berlin tabloid BZ argued that even the Arab world had given the German pope a better reception than the British.
It turned for an explanation for the "envy and poison" to Professor Manfred Pfister, an expert on Britain at Berlin's Free University. He argued that the new pope embodied two of Britain's great hates: Germans and Catholics.
"Lots of the media still equate the Germans with belligerent fascists," the academic said.
"Then there's the Catholic church, the hate towards which is so great that every year on November 5 the British burn the effigy of a Catholic would-be assassin."
The weekly Spiegel accused the British press of showing "stunning meanness and unabashed mockery" at a time when a recession-hit and usually staid Germany was celebrating the election of the new pope so enthusiastically that even the markets rallied.
Pope Benedict XVI has never denied that he was a member of the Hitler Youth, stating that like all German boys apart from Jews and those with disabilities he was forced to join it, in his case at the age of 14.
Die Welt reminded the British press that the young Joseph Ratzinger was born to parents who suffered because of their anti-Nazi principles.
In 1937, the newspaper wrote, his policeman father decided to resign from his job because he did not want to serve under the Nazis and "accepted that the family would face financial difficulties as a result".
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I somehow feel a Fawlty Towers joke coming up...
Don't mention the War!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Rumor has it that Benny 16 is being referred to as the "German Shepherd"
Now that's pretty clever.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
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