Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The Mirror Universe

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Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Just a little poll,

Who liked the evil bisexual counterparts of Kira and Ezri.

I really liked Intendant Kira

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

Uh...*shifts eyes back and forth*...no comment...

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Navigator-"Heading, Sir?"
Kirk-"Out there...somewhere...out thatta-way."--Star Trek: TMP

Posted by Grand Admiral Reese on :

I can't make an opinion on that, since I haven't seen that episode of DS9. But it sounds interesting.

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

*modspeak* This thread is sort of drawing the line on appropriateness. Not to be a party pooper, I'll keep this thread open. If I do see reason to lock it, I shall do so. Keep it tasteful. Thanks.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Sorry, i just wanted to see how many people like this version of the characters. If it gets to raunchy you may shut it down

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Just to keep this thread balanced. I believe that Regent Worf and Garak were bisexual too... in Shattered Mirror there was some definate sexual overtones - like - Garak's trying to please the Regent - The Regents - your not my type... the whole bondage thing... its rather quite funny - but of course no one goes past The Intendent... Give me any version of Kira... Emissary Kira and Season 7 Kira were the best.

Oh - and something that no one has answered for me before - Kira has longer hair in Season 7 but in The Emperor's new cloak - does the Indentant still have short hair?

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I didn't like the Mirror Vic Fontain. The guy's a holographic singer.. how the hell can he have a mirror universe counterpart?

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"...and if frogs could fly; well we'd still have this problem, but wouldn't it be cool?" - Drew Carey
Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

It makes sense if Vic Fontaine's form was based on a real person. Possibly the programmer, or an acquaintance of the programmer.

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"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"
- Faithless / Reverence

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I could've sworn I saw sparks fly out of the Mirror Fontaine when he got shot. I was under the impression that he was an android...Anyone else get that?

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited February 01, 2000).]

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Those Mirror Universe weapons always shoot sparks when they connect with a body, don't they (Kira shooting Jennifer in "Shattered Mirror" aside)? I remember when Sisko fired the two disruptors at once in "Through the Looking Glass", we got some pretty pyrotechnics. But I may remember incorrectly.

[This message has been edited by Elim Garak (edited February 01, 2000).]

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Vic Fontaine is basically a '50s to '60s singer, correct me if I'm wrong. The logic behind this is that both universes have the same timeline up until the first Romulan war (from what I heard). That's when the histories of the two universes branch off in different directions. So having a mirror Vic Fontaine, does make sense.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Well, from what I've read, and what seems better to me, is that in the mirror universe Khan wasn't overthrown.

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"Move your mind, it's gonna cost you nothing"
-Eiffel 65, Move Your Body

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Now that can't be good.

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Somehow we're going somewhere.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I'm still holding tight to my theory that the two universes never had a common timeline. It is a completely alternate universe. If the mirror universe actually was a different quantum reality branching off from some point in the Trek chronology, it would be next to impossible for all the characters from our universe or even most of their ancestors to have ever even been born.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

Non Canon stuff:

Shatner's book, "Spectre" has the divergence of the two universees at the point where the Borg invaded, before first contact with the Vulcans. I hope part two goes into a little more detail, because I like the idea. Seems the idea of another cube made people amore paranoid, and an Empire was born instead of a Federation. The Borg never returned in the mirror uni, at least, as of book one. We may see them in the next book. I don't know anything for sure.

My favorite scene in DS9 that season, was Ezri and the intendent.

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Posted by grb on :

Personally, I think its about time trek had a gay or bisexual main chracter on the show. TOS had a black WOMAN on the bridge, who kissed a WHITE man in a alter episode, conecpts that were really groundbreaking for the 60's. Trek is still trying to be about those ideals, but seems to be failing. Janeway is always braging about the federation's great ideals and high morals, which we rarely see in the show. Its about time trek got up to date with the 21st century and started to live up to its claims of high morals and groudbreaking television.

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Obviously you refuse to cooperate with me. Obviously you have no discipline to kepp the mouth shut. Obviously you don't. Let's try it that way, then you might get the hint. How many more minutes are we going to waste asking you not to talk? How many more!?!

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Yeah, more female characters in tight latex and leather outfits.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :

There should be more bisexual women on Star Trek. There should be more bisexual women on TV all together

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Ah the american dream.
j/k

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

You're pretty horny.

Between this and your art there, I'd say you really need a woman.

Or at least befriend Russ Myer.

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I bet when Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would
always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

-Jack Handey

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Whos russ myer

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Go to a search engine and type in "Russ Meyer". You'll see...

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Ross: "Inter arma, enim silent leges."
Bashir: "'In the time of war the law falls silent.' Cicero. Have we become a 24th-century Rome, driven by the fact that Caesar can do no wrong?!"
-Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Apperently he is a director for b-films that or porn, it is difficult to tell from what i saw

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

*looks at most of the discussion thus far* Good grief! And I thought I didn't have a life...!

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Why are you camparing me to a sixties porn director.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

TSN - you sound like Charlie Brown ;o)

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Just becuase i like evil bisexual women, does not mean i am a freak.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

[This message has been edited by Necromancer (edited February 02, 2000).]

Posted by Grand Admiral Reese on :

No it doesn't Necromancer, no it doesn't.

Posted by Daystrom on :

Well hello Necromancer.

I can see you sweating now.

I am telepathic too.

I hear what youre thinking:

"Geez, its Daystrom. He's going to shut down my thread".

Im not here for that my friend. Ive decided not to be the thorn in your paw here. I am Daystrom and I am your friend.

Besides, I agree with you 100%

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"I can't hold it! She's breaking up, she's breaking up!"

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

You agreeing with me Whats wrong with that picture.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Daystrom on :

Necromancer, you continue to fight with me.

Really now, its just not necessary, as Daystrom has "other" plans for you and the members this BB.

And they are purely benevolent.

Dont fight your friends, my friend. We wont hurt you here.

*smiles and extends hands, palms up*

I am Daystrom and I am your friend.

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"I can't hold it! She's breaking up, she's breaking up!"

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Very well i accept this unholy alliance. j/k

I believe that many of the members will fall before you. Perhaps it is better that we be allies instead of being at odds with each other.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

You know, in many parts of the world, it's a very nice day outside.

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

I live in a world of darkness.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

For those of you who think trek "needs" a gay character, and use Trek's history of racial diversity as an example, you should first consider how that's going to be 'shown.'

I mean, it was pretty damned obvious to everybody that Uhura was Black, and Sulu was Asian, and nobody ever made an issue of it, and there was almost no focus at all on that aspect of their characters. They were simply 'humans.' Their parts could have been played by any person of any race, as could many other minority parts on Star Trek, except when the character's background becomes of some importance to plotlines (like Chekov's "Russian joke" Chakotay's Indian spirituality, or Janeway's Irish heritage.) And even then, had they been some other nationality, that could have been written around as well.

To put a gay character on would necessitate SHOWING everybody his/her 'gayness,' in an OBVIOUS format, (since gay folks are generally indistinguishable from everybody else) thus running contrary to Trek's history of ignoring human differences in favor of commonality. It would, instead, be making an issue out of it.

At least, that's what I think. I could be wrong.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

"Geordi gets new orders from the bridge, walks over to two engineers working on something, and says to one of them, "I'm going to need you to work late, Captain wants (insert tech here) finished in two hours." The engineer agrees, looks at the other and says, "So much for our dinner date."

Not that difficult.

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Yeah, but that's a throwaway line between two extras, not a character point in a major character. There's a difference. (Besides, having a dinner 'date' with someone of the same gender is not necessarily 'gay.')

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Posted by Daystrom on :

I think gay characters could be portrayed on Trek without a big deal being made of it. There are other ways couples of any sexual orientation make the nature of their relationship known without actually "doing the deed" before your very eyes.

But it would have to be introduced one step at a time.
And probably with two females at first. Even as "liberal" as the times have become, for many the implication of two men going at it is a lot harder to stomach than two women.

But it could be done if someone with the guts to take a chance put their foot down.

But what are the chances.

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"I can't hold it! She's breaking up, she's breaking up!"

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

In many of the mirror universe episodes, you could tell by just listening to some of the dialoge That the indendant was bi, look at some of the scenes with Kira and the Intendant, and everbodies favorite scene with Ezri and the Intendant.

with those scenes they could play around with the female characters, and ratings soared. Fans are more accepting when it comes to lesbians than gay males. If those scenes were done with guys. Ratings would plumet so far down, and of couarse there would be protests from the major religions.

So i say that they leave well enough alone and dont try to do it.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Actually, the mirror universe stuff probably fits in quite nicely with the standard prejudices of the day.

"Look, bisexuals! And they're all so eeevil!"

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by Marko Latin on :

why do the mirror universes always have to be bad?
why can't we have some honorable people in the other reality?

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Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, there are. They would be the ones who are bad in this universe. I would guess that the mirror Tholians, Breen, Gorn, etc. are really nice guys. 'Course, they've probably all been conquered by the Terran Empire or the Klingon-Cardassian Allinace by now.

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Jackson: "Basically, he was the original Satan."
O'Neill: "Well, isn't that special?"
-Stargate SG-1: "Serpent's Song"

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :

Apparently Gene Roddenberry wrote a TNG episode called "Blood and Fire" which dealt with gay characters and an AIDS-type virus. However, it was never made.

If you think about it, the Dax symbiont is bisexual.
It has had male and female lovers over the years, and Jadzia once kissed "her" ex-wife...

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Well, yes and no. To be fair, such a term really carries no meaning for the symbionts, which aren't even humanoid and certainly can't be squeezed into human gender roles.

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"You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil."
--
Gene Ray, Cubic

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Didn't David Gerrold write "Fire and Ice" or whatever? And didn't he leave the show because it was never made?

The problem with the "So much for our dinner date scene described above", is that it's not serving the story. It's just there for the purposes of saying "LOOK! THEY'RE GAY!".

Name one instance in the history of Star Trek where we've had a similar throwaway scene between people of different races? For that matter, name a scene like that's occured between a man and a woman (who aren't main characters). It's never happened. Which is why doing it with two gays would stick out like a sore thumb and would only be their to highlight the fact that gays exist in the 24th century in an extremely intrusive manner.

But yes, I enjoyed Kira's leather trousers. Oh baby. Yeah. Ooh, look, there's a life outside of my bedroom. So I am going to go to the pub with my mates, where we shall sit and talk about nothing other than bisexual Kira all night.
(That would work better if you imagine me saying it in a flat tone of voice. Typing does no favours to sarcasm).

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"I'd give anything to be able to turn invisible. I wouldn't use my powers to beat people up, but use them to protect the girl's locker room."
Xander Harris

Posted by D-S on :

Imagine the scene, group of lads in the local pub and a certain DS9 episode had been aired on UK TV that week. What was mentioned? The special effects? the plot?. No it was Kira's outfit.
Anyway as more alcohol was consumed we got onto talking about daft ST crews. [THIS WILL PROBABLY MEAN NOTHING TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE UK].

It was decided that Julian Clarey [if thats how it is spellt] would make an excellent camp bridge officer, imagine him being offered to be beamed up, or being told that the Klingons were on his Starboard bow.
Jonothan Ross could be Tactical officer and each week there could be a new enemy which had to have the 'R' in its name. 'It's the b'w'een their firing dis'w'uptors.

Wonder if the anyone's thinking of doing Carry on Treking?

The other thing mentioned was that someone had heard that Seven was going to have a lesbian relationship, don't particularly like Voyager so has it happened?

How about Lesbian Borgs in space. That I would watch.

Sorry if I have offended.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I found the DS9 mirror universe episodes amusing at first, but they got more and more absurd. The characters are ludicrous, as are the stories. "Shattered Mirror" was already silly enough (albeit thrilling), but "The Emperor's New Cloak" was absurd like no other episode, maybe ecept for "Profit and Lace", my all-time least favorite. They seem to show everything weird, bad, ugly or dirty in the mirror universe, everything they wouldn't feature in our "good and clean" universe.

And this is exactly the questionable development: The bisexual characters in the mirror universe are presented or appear as equally absurd as the whole universe. It even looks a bit like certain sexual preferences are related to mental disorders. Moreover, there are way too many bisexual characters, whereas there are none in "our" universe. I don't think that this is exactly suited to create more tolerance.

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"A few more calculations"

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

I would definately remember hearing about 7 have lesbian relationship. I think that is only a rumor

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

Calm down, Neccy! Down, boy! You're so excited that your grammar's going bad!

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Dane

"Let mental culture go on advancing, let the natural sciences progress in even greater extent and depth, and the human mind widen itself as much as it desires: beyond the elevation and moral culture of Christianity, as it shines forth in the Gospels, it will not go."
Goethe

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

And the worring thing is that I've had exactly the sort of conversation that D-S just described. Only with more tits in it.

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"Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be."
Sol System

Posted by D-S on :

PsyLiam: Excellent, thats what a good conversation consists of.

I wonder if there are any persons of the female persuasion reading this. I would like to know what they thought of the Kira Dax thing?

Still think that ST porn would be a good series.

Scene 1:

Cue dodgy 70's guitar music.

7 is sat in astrometrics.
In walks Harry Kim with standard issue Starfleet uniform with fly away collars.

Harry: Ah 7 this is going to be a lunch break with a difference....

I will have to start posting serious stuff from now on!

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Word is there's some seriously sick and pervy talk going down in this thread.... and I want in.

Say what you like about Porn Trek - it'd get ratings!

Actually, i do recall someone I know writing a spoof series proposal where it effectively was "Carry On Trekking". Kenneth Williams as an uptight Admiral, pestered by an amouraous Betazoid played by Hattie Jaques.

"ooooh Ambassador, PlEEEEEEase!"

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"No way man!
I've served my time in hell, and I ain't going back...
Not without a fight!"

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Warning

well you were warned

Well we've got
Sex Trek
Sex Trek: The Next Penetration
Sex Trek: Deep Throat Nine
and
Sex Trek: Voyeur

I think "The Animated Series" already has a ring to it

for the sick and twisted Sex Trek: The Motion Picture

I'm sure every one would like the Undiscovered C... ok I won't go there...

The Nexus is a cheap strip club in "Gyrations"

First Contact - doesn't really need changing either

and the EASIEST one "Ins erection" - for those with a fetish for the Ins key I guess

I guess Sex Trek: clImax won't be around too soon either

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

You people are sick. Ah, i have found my people.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by D-S on :

Had to include some more for Sex Trek the series.

so here goes

Encounter at farpoint with a difference
The measure of a manhood
Sins of the father and what the Buttler saw
Best of both worlds shouldn't realy need an explanation
Best of Both Worlds part 2. Obviously more experimentation
Violations. It's a sado thing

I'm going to stop now. O.K.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

How about "The Bonding"

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

I'll bet the ensigns in these shows really know how to handle the captain's log. Uh. Huh. Huh.

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Threshold
Powerplay
The Bonding

hmmmm for those of the whips and chains persuasion?

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Any of the mirror uinverse stories. and the one where dax goes to risa.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Worf and gueststar-klingon Randy West starring in
"Klingon High Council: The Harem"!

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-At least I can get it up without biomechanical pumps.
-Try falling into a pit of lava, Moffy. Then see how horny you feel.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Andrew: You left one out. "The Ensigns of Command". :-)

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"Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-They Might Be Giants, "Your Racist Friend"

Posted by D-S on :

Firslty I'd like to appologise to Necromancer for being involved in the disruption of your topic.

Oh and BTW yes I do like the mirror universe plot thing apart from the character of the alternate Dr. Bashir who is too much of a pansy to be hard.

Now thats out of the way back Star Porn. HA! HA! HA!

Q: Would Klingons have soft porn, or only hard porn and harder porn?

Right this time is the last time honest.

Perhaps if Paramount are reading any of this they should consider these ideas for the next series.

'My name is captain Schlong!'
'This is first mate Busty'

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

No problem, have fun. But we need more episode with evil bisexual women.

Like this

(SNIP)

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited March 07, 2000).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

What is that faint stuff that Kira is licking off of the other girl's head? It's looks like, er, actually, I have no idea.

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"Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be."
Sol System

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Why is there a Bajoran with her eyes sewn shut and a slug crawling out of her mouth trying to strangle a middle-aged woman? I'm so confused.

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"You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil."
--
Gene Ray, Cubic

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Whoever that is on the right sure looks like my Chemistry teacher, grey hair and all.

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

*AHEM*

Tone it down guys. I shoulda paid attention to this a long time ago.

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

*Politely applauds Tahna*

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Dane

"Mathematicians have long held that a million monkeys banging on a million keyboards would eventually reproduce the collected wisdom of the human race. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Silensky

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Hmmm, Necromancer's picture will teach me not to open this thread in the Computer labs again! ;o)

Andrew

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"Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

*LOL* Ah proud moment when a school thinks my stuff is evil.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Well to get back to a few earlier remarks, here's my theory of the mirror universe:

The mirror universe is not a timeline that has originated from our own. It existed, and always will exist, alongside our timeline. It is always (or at least most of the time) the exact opposite of our timeline, within the rules of physics (and budget, and viewers).

Friendly UFP <-> Hostile Empire
Hetero women <-> Bi-sexual women
Beautiful women <-> Beatiful women

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"Si vis pacem, para bellum." (If you want peace, prepare for war)
- Vegetius
Prakesh's Star Trek Site

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

*lol* I see you like the last two.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

Edited remarks.

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Necromancer: I've removed your licking picture from this thread. It would be appropriate if you kept such provocative artwork in the D&A forum (with the appropriate warning). Any other pics that aren't...... well...... you get the message, are still allowed here.

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

Posted by Mythril (Member # 286) on :

Sorry just having a little fun. I will try to tone it down a bit.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

You Blasphemous Heathen, you!!

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf