I think yes especially by the thing that it doesn't allow Feds to use super-advanced tech.
Ya opinions?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The Prime Directive has nothing to do with limiting the Federation's use of technology. The Prime Directive limits the Federation's contact with less developed civilizations and prohibits interference in the natural flow of the development of said societies.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
And don't forget the primetime directive which allows them to bypass the prime directive to make interesting plot twists.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I don't think the Prime Directive is stupid at all. I think that it is a very good rule. Unfortunately, in Star Trek, it almost always gets broken.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i think Nevod is saying in his own special roundabout way that he disagrees with the Temporal Prime Directive, which would seem to apply to using all the super-future-junk that the old bitch brought back when she $
$
$
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brought Voyager home.
And it would seem stupid to your average Defint rawks kill all the cardeez trekkie, but it makes a lot of sense
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i think that a "hit janeway with biggest bomb possible as soon as she reappears somewhere" clause should have been introduced into the temporal prime directive in order to keep tim burton's filthy batman armor out of star trek. instead they made her a damn admiral (though could you imagine anyone listening to her advice, now that she is an admiral?
adm. jw: hello, picard, let me just say...
jean-luc picard: shut the fuck up, bitch! i don't need your help, muthafucka! you weren't even smart enough to consider trying for the bajoran wormhole to get home. even though the location of the wormhole and it's physical relationship to the alpha quadrant are in debate, that kind of consideration would have shown you to have at least the minimum intelligence required of an upright primate. hell, you didn't even know where the fuck you were. you assmonkies were in the beta quadrant and ya didn't even fucking know it. fuck YOU, biatch!!! computer, close channel.)
--jacob
[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: EdipisReks ]
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
somehow I missed the whole 'lets make from of everything trek' theme this year...
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
"lets make from..."? do you mean, "lets make fun..."? that would make a hell of a lot more sense.
--jacob
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
*stares in dumbfounded irritation...*
Anyway.....
If we're talking about the Temporal Prime Directive, then he should say so.
Such a rule makes sense as it was initially conceived. I believe it's first appearance was with Capt. Braxton in "Future's End", Part 2. I think it was assumed that it was an extention of the PD that would make since for a timefaring society to adopt.
Soonthereafter, it became a "current" Starfleet rule as well as Janeway used the phrase all the time. This made less sense since her Starfleet didn't really have any temporal technology.
Having regulations for accidental involvement in past events (as was mentioned in "Trials and Tribbleations") makes sense. Having a whole Prime Directive for it does not for the Starfleet of Janeway's time.
Posted by Nevod (Member # 738) on :
Voy plot is stupid at all: they could've just rig these tricobalts after some time, while Voy will ride that tetryon wave again.
I think that Temporal Directive is very good. If PR is one-sided, then it's just hipocrytical rule. Also, they could just give an offer: join us and we'll give you every tech. If it can't work, then why not just teach the people what for tech should be used(i.e. for exploration etc blah-blah).
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Maybeperhaps am we have own Barcalow in view? All your loony are belong to us? For great duh?
Or am I reading too much into this?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm getting a headache...
OK. Noone knocked Voayger's plot. They were knocking Janeway's meddling.
You asked about the Prime Directive. People are trying to respond, but i still don't know whether you're talking about the Prime Directive or the Temporal Prime Directive.
Let's just define some terms...
Prime Directive: Limits the Federation (specifically Starfleet personnel) from influencing the development of sovereign or less developed societies by the introduction of technology, the introduction of information, or by influencing political workings (as was the issue with the Klingon Civil War). This policy is a good idea and we've seen how societies can be adversly effected by interference. Once a society has reached the technological level at which it can be considered for Federation membership, there are no longer any Prime Directive considerations.
Temporal Prime Directive: Prohibits Starfleet personnel from altering the timeline or distributing information about future events. As I've said, it makes very little sense to me that this policy would be considered a major directive in a Starfleet where time travel is almost always the result of some accident.
Now...which one do you want to talk about?
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i totally agree that the temporal prime directive is definitely out of place as a catch all law in the 24th century. the temporal prime directive sounds like something that only people with temporal technology would have (and as Aban Rune said, the starfleet of the 24th century doesn't have consistant temporal tech) when they are visiting a earlier time period. it would be in 24th century starfleets own best interest to use any tech they got from the future. afterall, as far as contemporary starfleet is concerned, there is no timeline to disrupt since they are living it. it would be up to future versions of starfleet and the temporal police to go back in time and take the future tech in order to preserve their timeline where (it can be assumed) the 24th century federation never got the future tech and then they could.....ugh, i'm getting dizzy. i hate temporal plots. can't we all just forget it happened? i hope that the writers of Nemesis forgot it happened.
--jacob
p.s. i was knocking voyager's plot
[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: EdipisReks ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, Janeway did tell Starling that noone in her time would sacrifice the future for their own personal gain. Yah, that was a lie, but there does appear to be some concern for the future timeline.
Picard's speach to Rasmussen completely contradicts that, though. Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks...
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i'm sure that, like the "regular" Prime Directive, the temporal Prime Directive is open to at least some interrpretation from each captain. We have seen kirk, picard and janeway willfully breaking the prime directive (i don't remember sisko ever breaking the prime directive) and they are still captains, so i imagine it is the same with temporal mumbo jumbo.
--jacob
[edited for too many "that"'s]
[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: EdipisReks ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Sisko went mustang in the "Circle" three parter. That was borderline no-no time. But I think that's as close as he ever got.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Presumably, the Temporal Prime Directive was instituted at the same time that the Department of Temporal Investigations was created. Obviously, the Federation thought there was enough time travel going on to create an entire new section of the bureaucracy to deal w/ it, so I don't see why they wouldn't start making some SF regulations about it, too.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
agreed. the DTI wouldnt have any power to prosecute cases unless there was legislation to the effect of what they were investigating.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The problem with that reasoning is that the two officers who visited Sisko to discuss his actions in "Trials and Tribbleations" mentioned some numbered regulation that stated all Starfleet personnel shall take reasonable precautions to avoid interferance in historic events.
Shouldn't they have just said, "The Temporal Prime Directive says your butt is toast"?
[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote: The problem with that reasoning is that the two officers who visited Sisko to discuss his actions in "Trials and Tribbleations" mentioned some numbered regulation that stated all Starfleet personnel shall take reasonable precautions to avoid interferance in historic events.
thats not the problem with my reasoning.. thats exactly what i said.. if there werent any regulations like they said, the DTI would have no power.
And Sisko didnt break the Temporal Prime Dirctive, he followed it. Just like you can visit a primitive planet without breaking the Prime Directive: you can visit but you can interfere. Sisko got stuck in the bast and did his damdest not to change anything or interfere too much. textbook adherence to the TPD.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
When you get down to it, the reasoning behind the TPD is exactly the same as the regular PD: to prevent less-advanced cultures and civilizations from getting their hands on information and/or technology that is too advanced for them.
For example, someone from 2002 going back to 1914 to give the US technology about the fusion bomb would be a violation of the TPD. But it's the same principle as contemporaries from outer space in 1914 giving countries involved in WWI nukes.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Just because the DTI guys didn't say the words "Temporal Prime Directive" doesn't mean they weren't talking about it. Perhaps "Temporal Prime Directive" is a sort of "slang" term used by SF officers, and the DTI guys don't like to sound so "vulgar"...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think that's a simplification of what the Prime Directive is for, too.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
There are times when the Prime Directive does seem an amazingly stupid thing. "Homeward" for instance, when the Enterprise could fairly easily (especially if it was working properly) save a colony, but chose not to.
I think the argument is that once you start helping a bit, good intentions get the better of you, and you start sticking your superior nose in everywhere. The Prime Directive is to stop the Federation from becoming like the Vorlons.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Mike: There are several other people posting...who says I was talking about your reasoning...? I was refering to TSN's comment about the TPD coming into existence at the same time as the Temporal Investigations Department.
TSN: I suppose it's certainly possible that the regulation they mentioned and the TPD are the same thing. It just didn't sound that way in the ep. I guess my big problem with the whole thing is that, in "Future's End", Braxton mentioned the TPD and it sounded like it was included to show us that, as Starfleet developed into patroling time, the PD developed with them. The all of a sudden, instead of being something from the future, it turned into something that Janeway was familiar with and seemed to be bound by (or was supposed to be bound by).
I just didn't like the switch over.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Oh, I am sorry.. sorry that you are actually a villain in disguise named Confusatron! *blasts*
but seriosuly, i was confused. oh well. im better now(better meaning violently ill)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)