Err.... I understand why they did a TMP DE, but what's wrong with TWOK? Honestly, I can't see any major advantages in new CGI or new music for TWOK. Perhaps a good CGI-scene of the crashed/landed Botany Bay, and CGI brainworms. Does anyone here know what exactly their planning to do?
And are they going to make DE's of every TOS movie? They could give III some better sound effects, and they should completely redo V, but what about the others?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Woohoo! Just in time for my birthday!
(Now I gotta unload my copy of TWOK...)
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
'Expanded cut', eh? That's probably the ABC version.
I don't know, it seems kinda nice to have DE's of all the movies. Kinda like SW's SE verisons. They might add some stuff here and there, better SFX and the like.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I dunno... Unless the shots are really bad (for instance, ST:5), I don't really think that updated CGI is all that necessary. I think it's part of the character of the movie to have the contemporary effects -- which, I might point out, in TWOK's case have aged quite, quite well. Yeah, it's not as flashy as the stuff that they pack in these days, but it's detailed and very well done.
Still, a director's edition could still be a good idea, just to revisit some things about the movie. Although TWOK being my favorite of the TOS movies, I'm not entirely sure just what could be improved upon.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Ummm...did anyone actually read the text? It refers to an expanded cut...it makes no mention of new effects or music.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Indeed so. I do remember it mentioned elsewhere that none of the successors are planned for anything more than a Director's Cut treatment, and nothing in the new movie. With teh exception of ST5, you could easily say that none would need it.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a completely redone version of ST5, rockmen and all. I'm sure Shatner would love it, and given his relatively high profile these days it would make some sense.
Mark
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
I wouldn't mind seeing the whole movie redone, script, SFX, story, director, redone. But they can keep the bridge though, that was perhpas the only good thing in the movie.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Matrix: Uh, actors?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The ST5 bridge? Eww, stinky!
That bridge was so clean, so antiseptic, and completely against the grain for its era. I was SO glad when they ripped off all the carpets and repainted it into something sensible. I personally disliked all the stations too, which had no character to them - Uhura and Spock were sitting at plain computer consoles with no binocular viewers or extending control panels or anything.
The ST5 bridge was supposed to link the TOS and TNG eras, but IMO it went way too much towards the latter - especially given that the set was redressed so many times as TNG-era bridges. You can keep it - gimme my E-B bridge any day.
Mark
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
*sigh* Ah, Mark -- how we will always disagree on this matter. The TFF bridge is my all-time fav, for exactly the reasons you don't like it. And the later bridges from TUC and GEN I despise, again for exactly the reasons you like them. What's so appealing about diamondplate decking and a complete lack of warmth?
--Jonah
[ May 11, 2002, 18:57: Message edited by: Peregrinus ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope, we'll never agree. And that's what makes it fun.
Actually, I find the neutral grays and maroons of the TUC E-A bridge to be quite warm! It's the ST5 bridge that's cold - like Voyager's bridge, the palette is relatively monocromatic and lacking in character, which adds to the "warmth" you're talking about.
Basically explain the point. And from a movie production standpoint, the ST6 bridge highlights the characters better, as they tend to be the brighter spots on the bridge, as oppoed to the darker spots on the ST5 bridge.
Mark
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, there's always the fact that these DVDs, unlike the original releases, will likely have extras on them...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
The originals had the trailer. And scene selections.
Paramount knows how to please the fans
NOT.
Reference this and this. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Now that he's pointed out most of the obvious stuff, I suspect Okuda's commentary alone will be worth the price of the disc. Well, almost.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I just hope they will bring out a Region 2 version of that DVD containing the same features as well.
And about the S.T. V and VI bridges: I like both of them, but I think the one in TFF doesn't fit the Ent-A, just as I think the TNG sets used in the movie don't fit at all. I just like the bridge as a set. Anyone else think that this TFF bridge would make a great bridge design for an Ambassador class ship? After all, it looks like the perfect "in-between" bridge on the way from Constitution-refit/Excelsior class to Galaxy class, doesn't it?
[ May 12, 2002, 02:50: Message edited by: Austin Powers ]
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
Mr Powers, we are in agreement, i reckon that TFF Ent-A bridge would suit an in-between bridge for teh Ambassador. my personal all-time fav bridge is the Ent-A from TUC. Its also my personal fav ship - come on u get a real galley (better than VOY's) how nice is that??
*hungry*
nah but seriously, the Ent-A in TUC is my fav ship, internally.
Buzz
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:but I think the one in TFF doesn't fit the Ent-
Austin,
It was the same fucking set in TFF and TUC. How could one fit and one not? It got a paint job and some extra doo-dads for VI, but the phsyical dimensions were still the exact same.
Remember: dark colors make stuff look not so big. It's an optical illusion that TFF bridge was larger ... it wasn't. It was brighter.
[ May 12, 2002, 07:32: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
It's the decor that he's talking about. Which is amusing, because all the refit bridges have been very light in colour. It was eggshell in TMP, darkened by lighting in TWoK and TSfS, pristine white in TVH, and a very pale beige in TFF -- with nice oak trim, I might add.
Then they rebounded back past the warm blues and greys of "The Cage" to a set that was all gunmetal and black, with a few red highlights. *bleck* I know, lighting-wise, the later bridges are better for seeing the characters/actors, but I honestly kept expecting to see someone's breath fogging all through TUC. Dim with spotlights looks very cold to me. Heck, the whole feel of the ship in TUC was very claustrophobic. I think Nick was going overboard on his earlier TWoK "submarine" mood.
--Jonah
P.S. Back on topic briefly -- what cut footage besides the Preston stuff do you think they'll add? Or at least show? Will we get to see Sulu's promotion?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Actually, the sets were physically different. Paint and upholstery aside, we're always going on about how they switched the stations around, moving four stations aftwards and playing musical chairs with them and the turbolifts. While it made the set look much better, there's no way the change would have made structural sense!
And NEITHER matches the exterior model, mind you. As for the ST5 bridge being better for an Ambassador, It would probably suit better, given its size - one wonders why they didn't use it for "Yesterday's Enterprise", as it was around at that time. But I still hate how lacking in character the consoles are. No extensions, no angles... The chairs were really cool, though.
Mark
[ May 12, 2002, 09:30: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I don't think Sulu's promotion was ever shot.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
AFAIK it was shot. But they couldn't use it because Shatner's acting was so bad.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Unfortunately Austin, the Enterprise-C's bridge was a redress of the battle bridge with the Movie Enterprise bridge portions. Damn, well maybe it would make a nice 2378 bridge for the USS Ambassador.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
The "promotion" scene was shot, but, as others have said, Meyer cut it because of Shatner's unwillingness to play it right (Takei goes into the whole sordrid story in his bio).
The other big "new scene" (I don't count the Preston stuff as new because it's been in the TV version for years) would be the dialogue between Kirk and Spock establishing Saavik as being half Romulan. I hope they include that one, as it makes so much sense re: her character.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: Unfortunately Austin, the Enterprise-C's bridge was a redress of the battle bridge with the Movie Enterprise bridge portions. Damn, well maybe it would make a nice 2378 bridge for the USS Ambassador.
It's a commonly-held notion that this is so, when in fact it isn't. The E-C was built from generic wall sections that had been in the TNG set stock for years. Ignoring the obvious scale discrepencies, compare the two bridges:
You can see quite clearly that the sets are nothing alike.
The confusion lies in two instances in the second season where the RAILINGS from the movie/battle bridge set was combined with the walls that ultimately become the E-C bridge set, on at least a couple occasions - one of which is the lab Wesley gets to command his science team with in "Pen Pals". Adding to this is that the E-C bridge is next used as the second incarnation of the E-D battle bridge, and a variety of sets thereafter.
Mark
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
that was my problem with the E-C bridge.. it was the redress of a plain room, rather than a redress of an actual bridge set. most other bridges were usually refits of other bridge sets, the addition of curves and angles really gives it that 'bridge feeling'
other bridges that were room redresses were the Brattain and the Sutherland in the next two seasons.. possibly the same set, or modules of it. I'm not sure,but it might have ended up as Arctus Baran's bridge in Gambit
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
thats it "submarine mood" thats why i liked the TUC bridge so much reminds me of like Hunt for Red October and Crimson tide.
well neways, dont mind this let the main train of thought continue.
buzz
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
@Snay: You misunderstood me. Of course I know about the dimensions of the bridge sets.
With "fit" I didn't mean size, I meant style. I think the TFF bridge as well as the GCS corridor sets (which were not modified in ANY way) don't seem to belong to a Constitution class vessel. Same goes for engineering, I just remember the scene where Scotty is looking at the warpcore which is - surprise surprise - the one from the Ent-D.
That's why I'm glad they changed it again for TUC.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
quote: Oorignally posted by Austin Powers: Same goes for engineering, I just remember the scene where Scotty is looking at the warpcore which is - surprise surprise - the one from the Ent-D.
Huh? I thought it was TUC that redressed the TNG engine room. IIRC, they used a redressed corridor for what little they showed of engineering in TFF.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
Weren't the GCS corridors originally made for the Enterprise Refit in TMP and later transferred to TNG?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
...Yeah, but they didn't even bother redressing them back to Classic Films style for TFF. It's really, really visually jarring. Thankfully, they spent a bit of time and money for TUC and made them look less E-D-ish.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
There's this little thing called branching that DVDs can do. I really wish the studios would look into it a bit more closely. The Buckaroo Bonzai DVD has this feature where you can watch the extra and extended scenes in the film, or just watch the original cut. I would love to see that with STII. It is my favorite movie from ever, and I really hope they don't decide to add some scenes just because they have them. There's a reason why those scenes were cut originally.
I'm the proud owner of the pre-Special-Edition widescreen SW trilogy Laser Disc box set, and that's the only version I can watch because Greedo shooting first makes me so mad.
If the new scenes are just Kirk pinning a medal on Sulu's chest and a little Preston pre-barbeque sympathy kitsch, then I don't think that necessarily needs to go back into the movie. I'd still love to see the scenes, but I'd hate for the pacing and intent of the original film to become diluted in the process.
Anyone here see the Apocalypse Now Redux? The plantation scene was interesting, but the film really didn't need it at all. And suddenly Duval's mythical Killgore is comic relief?
I think TWOK is one of the best movies ever made. I'd really hate to see the original cut suffer for just a couple of scenes that weren't good enough to make it into the original. If they want to do the branching thing, I'd be way into that...
[ May 13, 2002, 17:31: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Well, it is a real "director's" cut by Nick Meyer himself, not just a random extended version hastily thrown together. I'd have to assume that anything he chooses to re-insert (or remove) will be because he's thought it through first. They can still have the unaltered scenes on the disc, like they did with TMP.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Obviously, if anyone's going to make a director's cut, it ought to be the director. 'Apocalypse Now Redux' was a director's cut with one of American cinema's greatest living directors in charge. The first thing I did after seeing the new version was to go out and buy the older DVD. I'm drawn to the extras, but I probably won't buy the Redux. But just think if it were a branching DVD. You could have it both ways. Of course, then they wouldn't get to charge you for both. Putting the original scenes on the extras disc just seems backwards to me.
[ May 13, 2002, 19:04: Message edited by: Balaam Xumucane ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Redux definately improved upon the original. Yes, it no longer made the film commercially viable in the traditional sense (which is why the studio kept it trimmed initially) but Apocalypse Now isn't really the sort of movie that needs to charge forward at a breakneck pace and get everything wrapped up in less than three hours. The plantation scenes (plus the further adventures of the Playboy bunnies) were interesting vignettes, IMHO.
But damn, I wish Copolla digitally changed the carpets on the boat. I mean, honestly, the colourscheme on that thing was awful. Posted by Nim Pim (Member # 205) on :
I swear Luke wasn't screaming when he fell down the Bespin air chute in the old cut, he accepted his doom like a man, for once. Damn asses.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Autopilot flies planes without the need for pilots. Hence "Auto"pilot.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
And @Woodside Kid: You're right. I messed that one about the warpcore scene up. It was in TUC.
I wonder why branching isn't used more often on DVDs.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think it presents some technical difficulties. Not ones impossible to overcome, to be sure, but they may make it unprofitable in most discs.
Posted by Mirror Bashir (Member # 818) on :
Great. I already have the TNN version and the ABC version on tape, the regular DVD. All the money wasted...
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
why does member #818 keep changing handles???
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Why does anyone?
Posted by UM. (Member # 239) on :
'Cuz it's fun. Although, completely unrelated ones are silly.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: I'm the proud owner of the pre-Special-Edition widescreen SW trilogy Laser Disc box set, and that's the only version I can watch because Greedo shooting first makes me so mad.
People can watch the news, filled with death, poverty, starvation, and ugly people with no feelings whatsoever. George decides to make Han Solo a bit less cool, and fans want to kill.
For fuck's sake, get out more.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
For some reason, I always thought that Greedo did shoot first, but the VFX were just screwed up in the original. Kinda like when Obi-Wan fights Vader and his lightsaber effect disappears a couple times. Except that they forgot to fix that one...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Even worse. You buy the DVD, and there's "an inside look at the Special Extended DVD Edition of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" on it.. why the hell would you want to buy the Mediocre Short Boring Version You Actually Saw In The Cinema?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er...I suppose one could think that Fellowship of the Ring was mediocre, though in that case I fail to see how more of the same would improve ones opinion of the film. And I can see how one could find it boring, again without seeing how extending it could possibly make it less boring. But to call it short boggles the mind.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I think Simon's "sarcasm detector" was turned off.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Indeed.
Probably drunk or something.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, if only. Everyone else is. Not that there is anyone else. Just me and 75 channels of nothing on.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh, hush. You didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Now you're sore. Poor Simon.
... anywaaaaaaaaaaaaays.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think I've been sore in some time.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's because you're drunk.
"For some reason, I always thought that Greedo did shoot first, but the VFX were just screwed up in the original. Kinda like when Obi-Wan fights Vader and his lightsaber effect disappears a couple times. Except that they forgot to fix that one..."
Yeah. Of all the stuff they "fixed", that would have been higher on my list, because it's so blatent.
As for the Greedo thing, I'm pretty sure Han was meant to shoot first in the original. The shots used in the SW are actually different. From memory, the original has Han saying "I bet you haved", and then I think you see Greedo being blown back. The SE has "I bet you have", and you then see a shot of both of them. Greedo shoots (and misses. From 2 feet away. The twat). And then Han fires.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Stupid cheap black-market blasters. I bet the Old Republic Blaster Association would spend billions of credits to keep 'em legal, tho.
[ May 19, 2002, 20:36: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by UM. (Member # 239) on :
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