2. Humans get the red pigmentation in their lips from their red blood.
3. T'Pol is a full-blooded Vulcan.
Based on the previous information, we can logically conclude that T'Pol should have green lips. We can see from the following images that they are not. Is this by accident or design?
Uh, this hardly seems to be a problem unique to T'Pol.
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
True...I was just using her as an example.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
there is such a thing as lipstick. perhaps it is logical to wear lipstick, so all logical vulcan's wear lipstick. and perhaps it is also very fashionable to wear lipstick, so nonlogical vulcans also wear lipstick. Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Dogs have red blood. However, most dogs have black lips. Also, most dogs do not wear lipstick.
Take THAT, common sense.
Mark
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
You enjoy this, don't you Mark? Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Really, every "Caucasian" Vulcan ought to have a slight green tinge to their skin all over (for the same reason that white people look kind of pink). But they don't go to the make-up trouble to do that. Just like they don't make actors playing Bolians or Andorians eat blue popsicles to turn their tongues blue.
Posted by O Capped In Mic Capped In (Member # 709) on :
they really should though..
BTW, from 'The Cage' all the way through the present, they have painted Vulcans (and Romulans) down with a greenish-bronze tone. the makeup is called LN-1, it stands for 'Leonard Nimoy' I think that 90-something percent of all Trek Vulcanoids have had color applied to their skins.
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
quote: Dogs have red blood. However, most dogs have black lips. Also, most dogs do not wear lipstick.
Need we remind you that T'Pol (and every other Vulcan) is not a dog? Sheesh...
I think they need to apply more of that stuff...they don't look green enough. My complaint about the lips stands...
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cadet Sorak:
quote: Dogs have red blood. However, most dogs have black lips. Also, most dogs do not wear lipstick.
Need we remind you that T'Pol (and every other Vulcan) is not a dog? Sheesh...
I think they need to apply more of that stuff...they don't look green enough. My complaint about the lips stands...
i think you missed the point about the dogs. dogs have red blood, but they don't necessarily have red lips, so why should a vulcan have green lips just because they have green blood? vulcan's are probably less similar to human's chemically and biologically than dogs are, and the hard and fast lip/blood color rule doesn't even work between humans and dogs! how can you expect it to work with two very dissimilar species? for all we know, vulcan lips don't have a blood supply, and instead nutrients and oxygen are delivered to the tissue through cellular diffusion. just because something is true of one species (human lip color is dependant on human blood color) doesn't mean that it is true of other species, regardless of how outwardly similar the two species are. a clue, please acquire.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Incidentally, there were plans afoot to give the Andorians on Enterprise blue mouth interiors (surely there's a less styupid-sounding term than that), but they found out that any kind of dying agent would have made the actor's dental work appear all funny looking. Now if only little Jeffy Combs had ate less candy as a child...
I've always thought that the decision to give Bolians dark blue blood was fairly brilliant, incidentally. Certainly not the sort of smart and subtle attention to detail we expect on a series that's spat out under tremendous duress. Might Bolian blood be based around a Copper (III) molecule as its haeme replacement?
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
How does vulcan blood transport oxygen?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Copper, too... but there are Cuprous and Cupric forms, one that's blue and one that's green, and I'm speculating the Bolians have bichemistry that lends itself to the blue form, which I have a hunch is Copper (III). (AP chemistry being a thankfully distant memory, I can't say anything more definate than that.)
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
Only in this forum could a simple question about lip color get turned into a biology lesson... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You'll never believe this, but someone told me that trek was just a TV show, and like all science fiction, requires some suspension of reality and plausibility for the story to work. ...they were probably lying though. Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
If I had a nickel everytime that was pointed out, I'd have at least enough money for a large pepsi.
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
quote: ...they were probably lying though
Darn right. Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: Copper, too... but there are Cuprous and Cupric forms, one that's blue and one that's green, and I'm speculating the Bolians have bichemistry that lends itself to the blue form, which I have a hunch is Copper (III). (AP chemistry being a thankfully distant memory, I can't say anything more definate than that.)
Uh, I just had a thought. At least, I remembered something: wasn't there a comment in one episode or another about a blood transfusion from a Vulcan to a Bolian being fatal to the recipient? I ask because it might be that both Vulcans and Bolians have copper-based blood, but one is Cuprous and one Cupric. Just thinking...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It may be worth noting that an Andorian seen in ("Offspring" [TNG]) actually had what looked like green skin instead of blue. Possibly a sign of similarity between Andorian and Vulcan blood, or a different ethnic group from Andor's equatorial regions? Which raises an interesting question, what colour would an Andorian's sunburn be? Would the blue copper react with the heat or solar radiation somehow and turn green? Is the intensity of the Vulcan sun a factor in this? If as the encyclopaedia says, that Bolian blood is chemically very different from Vulcan blood they what else other than copper could be responsible for their blue skin? Is it possible that Bolians have a similar physiology to plant life which would mean that their skin colour may be a part of some kind of photosynthetic process?
Posted by Nimpim (Member # 205) on :
quote: Dogs have red blood. However, most dogs have black lips. Also, most dogs do not wear lipstick.
It has nothing to do with blood. Cats and dogs have evolutionized black pigmentation in their lips that, together with the black rims around their eyes, form a delicate visual communications tool. You can see it especially clear in tigers, their other lines in the face boosting the effect.
All the big cats have it, my little one only has a small black passage in the right corner of his mouth, the rest is cutesy pink.
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
well, my family is a bunch of fucking tigers, and we don't have black lips. libel! slander!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I always thought that the blueskins were those with cobalt-based blood..?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:It has nothing to do with blood.
Uh, that's exactly what I was saying...
Mark
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Free ThoughtCrime America: If I had a nickel everytime that was pointed out, I'd have at least enough money for a large pepsi.
or maybe a two liter bottle! 4 dollars an ounce, street value! BWAH HA HA
BTW how much does sunburn have to do with blood? i thought it was just skin getting charred to a deeper color.
ad our skin is pigmented, albinos have white skin with *gasp* red blood underneath
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
We really need someone with a medical background to figure this one out. Where's Masao when you need him!?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
When we're merely speculating, I don't think much stuff needs "figuring out."
And I'm fairly sure Shik is correct in pointing out that a cobalt-based oxygen-carrying molecule would most likely result in blue blood. Of course, whether Andorian blue coloration comes from skin pigmentation or blood or both is unknown. Bolians, at least, have deep blue blood, but whether their colouration comes entirely from the blood or whether pigmentation also plays a role is also unknown. Rixx was a pretty pasty blue Bolian relative to some others, so that would seem to be good evidence of at least some pigmentation variation on top of the mild blue palor any humanoid with blue blood might have.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
As Nimpim rightly implied, we don't need someone with a medical background as much as someone with a veternarian background, or at least someone with as broad a biological background as possible.
While I'm at it:
quote:...about a blood transfusion from a Vulcan to a Bolian being fatal to the recipient? I ask because it might be that both Vulcans and Bolians have copper-based blood, but one is Cuprous and one Cupric. Just thinking...
Get a blood injection from your neighbour, if your blood coagulates, you'll quickly learn why blood transfusions can be fatal even without a different base ion. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Sunburns have nothing to do w/ blood. It's exactly what the name implies: a radiation burn. A suntan is also unrelated to blood. The tan stuff is melanin, a pigment in the skin. It's the same stuff that makes a black person's skin dark (or any other race w/ darker skin than whites), and obviously we all have the same kind of blood.
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