I seem to recall reading somewhere that the character of Valeris in TUC was originally intended to be Saavik. Anyone have more info on this? Seems like this could have made an already complex movie even moreso...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I've heard about this as well, though I don't know any of the particulars.
IMO, having Saavik instead of Valeris would've traded complexities. On one hand, Spock nominating Saavik to succeed him as science officer of the Enterprise would have made a whole lot more emotional impact since the viewers had seen her before. The same would go for her betrayal. On the other hand, the "logic" of Saavik's decision to make that betrayal in the first place could've been a whole lot less reasonable.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I've done research on all of the movies and their making, and with Star Trek VI I cannot recall coming across any such rumour. So unless I'm mistaken the character Saavik was not really ever considered for this role.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It may have just been wishful thinking on behalf of the viewers (Gosh, someone on the ship must be involved in the conspiracy. Could it be Chekov? Uhura? This new character no one has ever heard of before? I WONDER!), but the word, as far as I am aware of it, is that Saavik was considered in the earliest drafts of the story, but not for long. Maybe?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I'm pretty sure this is mentioned in, um, The Good Book (you know, the one pretty damn likely to be on your shelf), in one of those italicized bits that loosen James Dixon's stools. If so, Red Admiral's research skills leave something to be desired.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Now now, play nice.
As for a possible motive for Saavik turning traitor, wasn't there a cut line from TWoK that had her being half or part Romulan? It would explain her emotional gasp at seeing Scotty with his dead nephew and provide a certain amount of potential within her character for betrayal, given that Romulans are renowned for their treachery.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's a terrible idea. Shucks, she couldn't help it, she's jess a Rom'lan, suh!
Also more than a little hostile to the spirit of the film.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
From the Encyclopedia 2, page 425, last sentence of the "Saavik" entry:
An early-draft script for Star Trek VI featured Saavik in the role that eventually became Valeris.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I think the same rumour was mentioned in Shatner's Star Trek Movie Memories, but that Kirstie Alley was making too much money on Cheers so they couldn't afford her price.
I bet she'd kill for such an opportunity now, though. 8)
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: I think the same rumour was mentioned in Shatner's Star Trek Movie Memories, but that Kirstie Alley was making too much money on Cheers so they couldn't afford her price.
I bet she'd kill for such an opportunity now, though. 8)
Alley had already been replaced for star trek III, so i couldn't imagine them breaking continuity again by hiring her for star trek VI.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: That's a terrible idea. Shucks, she couldn't help it, she's jess a Rom'lan, suh!
Also more than a little hostile to the spirit of the film.
Which is probably why they changed the character to Valeris.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There are plenty of other reasons. Saavik might, gasp!, actually think that helping the Klingons was a bad thing.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Saavik was intended for that role, but that she was too popular with the fans or something like that.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Alright I admit it, I was wrong. But it all depends on what material you research, and where I dug and delved it wasn't mentioned! So that isn't my fault.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I've heard both of these things over the years.
1. That Kirstie Alley was as close to the cost of the entire picture for her to reprise her role. (NICE when it was tWoK that STARTED her career.)
2. That Saavik was indeed supposed to be the character that Valeris eventually came.
AND
3. That Saavik was supposed to be Half-Vulcan/Half-Romulan
AND
4. That Saavik was supposed to be carrying Spock's child and that was why she was staying behind on Vulcan in Star Trek: IV.
ok they are all the rumours I've heard around the character of Saavik.
Andrew
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by EdipisReks: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Vogon Poet: Alley had already been replaced for star trek III, so i couldn't imagine them breaking continuity again by hiring her for star trek VI.
Because having a character be played by one actor, then having that actor change, and change back, HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN STAR TREK OR DEXTER'S LABORATORY EVER IN LIFE OR TIME!
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Wait. Brief brain fart. It happened in ST?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I feel like it has, but I can't put my finger on where...
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Off the top of my head, probably with one of the guest Klingons or guest Romulans or guest who-the-fuck-evers.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I think someone here has a text file of a very early script for Star Trek VI. I read it not to long ago, and the version I read (if we assume that it was an authentic early draft) had Saavik in it. Kinda. It was Valeris's character with Saavik's name but none of Saavik's background.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Borg queen springs to mind.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
How about Tora Ziyal and Alexander?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I believe to have a character played by one person - then another then back to the original actor has happened only once in Trek. The Borg Queen.
It happened with Becky in Rosanne.
Alexander progressed to different actors... ok barring the 'future' Alexander in season 7, cause the Brian Bonsall Alexander was still there.
Tora Ziyal just had three different actresses - one after the other.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Spock beats them all. He was first played by Leonard Nimoy, then by Carl Steven, then by Vadia Potenza, then by Stephen Manley, then by Joe W. Davis, and finally by Leonard Nimoy again. Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Spock aging during ST III I guess you mean, but in that special circumstance I don't think it should count.
quote:4. That Saavik was supposed to be carrying Spock's child and that was why she was staying behind on Vulcan in Star Trek: IV.
That much is certainly true, scenes regarding this were even filmed. Once such scene that was cut involved Saavik explaining to Kirk that she would not be joining them on their trip to Earth, but was staying behind on Vulcan with Spock's mother to take maternity leave. It was the whole reason behind Saavik even being in STIV in the first place.
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: I think the same rumour was mentioned in Shatner's Star Trek Movie Memories
I remember reading it there too. He also mentioned that when Alley proved to be too expensive, they were considering casting Kim Caitral as Saavik (she had be originally been considered for the role in STII), but decided that it was probably not the brightest idea to recast again.
As I remember, he made no mention of Robin Curtis. I wonder if she was unavailable or just sucked too much for them to allow her on-screen again (until TNG anyway).
quote:Originally posted by Topher: I seem to recall reading somewhere that Saavik was intended for that role, but that she was too popular with the fans or something like that.
Shatner also mentioned that Gene Roddenberry wrote a deluge of angry memos protesting using Saavik as a traitor because she was too beloved by fans. Shatner notes this as ironic because supposedly Gene opposed the creation of Saavik in the first place.
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
Yep... Meyer and Roddenberry apparently got quite pissy in their arguments:
I'm sorry and in all respect to Gene, but to cut a quarter hour of the more 'militaristic scenes' would have ruined the film. The Film is the best of them all - really. Even over Kahn. Gene didn't want Spock on TNG - Spock WORKED on TNG. I guess Gene was just wanting to maintain his vision. That vision is still there - it's just stretched a little. I guess he wasn't always correct. (Of Course) but he had this fantastic vision of the Future. And if anything - The Next Generation kept that spirit alive.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Are we suppossed to salute now?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
True indeed. One of the main problem with TMP was Roddenberry constantly interfering. It was said by Harold Livingston (whilst working on TMP) that "Gene Roddenberry had a great story mind, but was terrible at writing scripts". Paramount Execs called Gene's rewrites for TMP as 'shit'.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Are we suppossed to salute now?
Yes, yes you are.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
US salute, or British?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The AJ Rimmer revised JMC Salute.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Full or half Rimmer?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Full Rimmer with an extra 3 and a half hand flourish.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
is that without or without smeg sniff?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)