Star Trek producer Rick Berman has acknowledged that following the failure of Star Trek: Nemesis, the future of the feature franchise is uncertain. "I don't think this is like falling off a horse, and you want to jump right back on it," he told Sci-Fi Wire, the news website of the Sci-Fi Channel. Asked what went wrong, Berman replied: "There's no way of telling what happened. ... I'm convinced that we made a very good movie, and I'm also convinced that the movie was promoted properly." Star Trek fans, apparently, are not nearly so mystified by what occurred. On the website, one Trekkie posted this message in response to Berman's remarks: "The huge plot holes, the inconsistencies within the story, the inconsistencies within the Trek framework, the lack of historical continuity within the series, the lack of logic or common sense in the writing and MUCH more led to this film alienating not only all of the fans I know but all of the intelligent non-fans I know, too. Folks, people were **laughing** during the screening I attended, and not at the 'funny parts.'"
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
IMDb visited TrekWeb. Can we have a moment of silent prayer?
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Should I be ready to wear black then?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Im new, so naturally Ive missed the joke? anyone care to enlighten me?? Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
IMDb is respected. TrekWeb is not.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Asked what went wrong, Berman replied: "There's no way of telling what happened. ...
There's no way of telling, Rick? Either you do not own a computer, or you do not know what this thing called "the internet" is. Because if you did, it would be quite easy to find out "what happened" just by browsing a site such as this one.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
If one really cared what a tiny fractional minority of the viewing audience thought, sure. He could also randomly quiz passerby, or ask John Edwards. Each method would about as accurately reflect the attitudes of the movie going public.
Hint: I didn't like Nemesis. I didn't like it for reasons that are drastically different than the reasons, say, Roger Ebert didn't like it.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
To add my personal drop in the ocean of opinion, the reason I disliked Nemesis was mainly due to the over use of action sequences, by about the 5th one I just stopped caring. Seriously, shortly after watching Nemesis I purchased the TSFS on DVD and found myself liking the new film even less. Aside from the brief attack on the Merchantman early on in ST:III there is hardly any action until nearly half way through the film and what action there is, is rather minimalist and yet it managed to hold my undivided attention the whole way through, unlike Nemesis which barely managed 40 minutes before I started glancing at my watch. The same goes for most of the other TOS crew movies...to be fair though in the case of TMP that is actually a bad thing sincee there was no action to speak of at all.
Indeed I would have been much happier if Shinzon managed to suck Picard dry, destroy the Enterprise and turn the population of Earth into little piles of albino mouse droppings, at least that ending would have been original.
But to answer Berman's question, what REALLY went wrong was security. We had a readily available shooting script of the film ages before the film was released so all those who cared to look could see all the huge plot holes way ahead of time, not to mention it spoiled the "surprise ending". Mind you even that was copped out of in a far less ambiguous way than the famous ...Remember... thread.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I can't imagine much more than 1% of all the people who saw (or, as the case may be, didn't see) Nemesis had any idea there was even such a script available.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
We may never know, but you're probably right all the same. Nevertheless it seams to have been well known amoung the various trek internet communities that the script was out and about (at least thats the impression I got) and ill news travels fast.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, I don't mean to discount the importance of internet word of mouth, I guess. I mean, someone is paying HARRY KNOWLES!!! bills, after all. Still.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
The odd thing is, Im almost abandoning Trek for Stargate.... and SG1 is really, REALLY taking off
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm sure I've heard that line every year for the past billion years.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The one movie that heard me and the whole cinema laughing about its inconsistencies was "Mission Impossible" (part one, I never had the intention top watch the sequel). Logic, continuity etc. may well play a role, but I don't think that Nemesis was even that bad in this respect. Maybe for the next movie they should hire Tom Cruise?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Or Mike Meyers...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Proteus: The odd thing is, Im almost abandoning Trek for Stargate.... and SG1 is really, REALLY taking off
I've been into Stargate from season 2. THAT show has inherited the spirit of Star Trek. You can see it in the shows, the writing, the beautiful sets, the magnificent makeup, and not the least, when you meet the actors. I hadn't been to a more enjoyable convention in a LONG time when I went to a Don S. Davis, Teryl Rothery convention at the end of last year. So great.
People who haven't gotten into Stargate SG1 yet, should. It's great. You don't need to have seen the movie. You don't even have to start at the first episode. As I said, I came in at the end of Season 2. I was so enraptured I tracked down all of season 1 and 2. Love it to pieces, and I can't wait till it starts back on TV for this year.
It's quite popular in Australia. In 2001 I think it was the highest rating "foreign" i.e. not Neighbours or Home and Away - drama series.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It's also, like, 300% on topic here, absolutely.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
I'd like to get into SG1 but it seems a bit late considering they're now up to season 6 or 7. Can you even get DVD season box sets? They seem to only have specific episodes on DVD.
Back on topic, I saw Nemesis for the first time on Friday and I dare say that I quite enjoyed it. It's not the best movie ever (certainly not as good as First Contact) but it's no where near as bad as I was being led to believe. Although it's not saying much, I believe Nemesis compares favourably with Generations and Insurrection. I'd have to see it again to pass final judgement but I was happy with my first viewing.
Have you seen it yet, AndrewR?
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
ok, sorry, didn't want to spoil anyone - so be warned, possible spoilers ahead... $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
When I was in the cinema to watch Nemesis, the audience gasped when Data was killed. They couldn't believe their eyes when the Enterprise crashed into Shinzon's ship. Their surprised reactions at these and all the other scenes that supposedly "everybody" knew because the script leaked out on the Internet show that NOT everybody knew.
I think we all should face facts: we Web-Trekkers are an extremely crazy minority compared to the average movie-goer - even if we always try to pretend otherwise.
Therefor I suggest the only real reason why Nemesis didn't do well at the Box office in the US was the idioticly bad timing. Starting the movie one week before LotR 2 hits the screens is the choice only a lunatic would make - and Paramount execs. Even if Nemesis had been a ultra-great-can't-get-any-better-top Trek film, it still wouldn't stand a chance against a film like LotR. Sure, it might not be the best Trek film ever produced. Sure, the script leaked out (as with all recent Trek films) and hardcore freaks - because, let's admit it, that's what we are - like us got to tear it apart in forums like this one. Sure, the editing could have been a little better.
BUT, nevertheless it was an enjoyable film that would have done much better, had it not been set against such a dominating competition!
Just my two cents but I think the reasoning is very logical - surely Mr Spock would agree...
[ February 10, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Austin Powers ]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Careful, Austin, Nemesis can still be considered to be in spoiler land.
I'm glad I avoided the leaked script or any other spoilers. Knowing what's going to happen can only ruin the experience of watching a movie for the first time. In fact, it will forever taint how you perceive the film.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I read the 'script' for it like last March when it first came out, but I really only skimmed it, however admittingly I felt guilty for it afterwards. Either way, when it came time to watch it I had forgotten most of it and I was indeed quite surprised when the "above mentioned spoilers" occurred in the movie.
I have been in love with the Romulans (platonically) and was really looking forward to the movie, however I agree it was missing a lot of potential content, there were even a couple boring points, hopefully the 'Great Bird of the Galaxy' will allow the powers that be to restore EVERYTHING to the original cut of the movie and call it the "The Fanboy Edition", that hopefully will soothe the stirring in the Trek Community regarding the current disappointing faults in the recent Trek heirarchy.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You forgot two of those things mentioned? Even though one of them is the biggest thing since Simon last unzipped his trousers? Crazy.
Still, Jim Robinson was in it! Woo!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: You forgot two of those things mentioned? Even though one of them is the biggest thing since Simon last unzipped his trousers? Crazy.
Still, Jim Robinson was in it! Woo!
WHAT?!! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
If you're confused by the Simon reference, just ignore it. It's a running gag. The gag being that Simon has a astronomically large penis. Which he may or may not; I don't know.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
And the Jim Robinson reference. . . Alan Dale played the crumbly Romulan Praetor in Star Trek: Nemesis; however, to Brits he will always be known as Jim Robinson in Neighbours, a long-running Australian soap. Since he was killed off in that, he's turned up in all sorts of shows (he played one of the 'super-soldiers' in The X-Files season 9) but will always be remembered as 'Jim from Neighbours!' 8)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OMG!! That was that guy from Neighbours!?!?!?!?! *CRAZY*
Who was that 'warlike' Romulan who stood behind that antagonist guy - he's been in Trek before and in B5 he was a General guy - I would have to say he was one of the THE worst actors in the entire run of B5.
I think he was the 2nd in charge of that classical music loving captain on Voyager's "Counterpoint"
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dax: I'd like to get into SG1 but it seems a bit late considering they're now up to season 6 or 7. Can you even get DVD season box sets? They seem to only have specific episodes on DVD.
I think they WILL be bringing out seasonal box sets. All the episodes are available on video. Just badger your local video store till they get them in (I did that for season 2 B5) or you can get them cheap from K-Mart or Target saw them for 4.95 each! Your video store can also ship them in from other stores that have the videos. ALSO if you have foxtel... they are on season 2 - but on Saturday nights after DS9 are screening from season 1.
quote:Originally posted by Dax: Back on topic, I saw Nemesis for the first time on Friday and I dare say that I quite enjoyed it. It's not the best movie ever (certainly not as good as First Contact) but it's no where near as bad as I was being led to believe. Although it's not saying much, I believe Nemesis compares favourably with Generations and Insurrection.
Which - isn't saying much.
quote:Originally posted by Dax:
I'd have to see it again to pass final judgement but I was happy with my first viewing.
Have you seen it yet, AndrewR?
Yes, saw it on Thursday when it came out. Tried to avoid a lot on the 'net. I'm still yet to post my feelings on it. It didn't sit well for me. I need to see it again - but It just wasn't what it could have been.
I don't want to say much yet - but to me - I feel cheated. That wasn't a Trek movie. So much was pulled from other movies. Yeah nice effects - SO!
The movie left me feeling empty and dissatisfied.
I heard it had been cut down a lot. Can I just say that the two movies that were chopped down because of test-audience recation have STUNK (relatively). Generations - the whole ending changed, chunks taken out all over the place. THE SAME happened with Generations - Ending changed chunks taken out all over the place. First Contact - remained relatively intact. GREAT movie.
Looks like I'm starting to run off and let my opinions of the movie poor out. I'll stop now and just say - OMG NO MORE JERRY GOLDSMITH. He just recycled themes from EVERYTHING else he's EVER done.
Sheesh.
So just to say. It could have been SO much better. I'll post later.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Yeah, Nemesis could've been a shit load better, but I went in with low expectations and walked out pleasantly surprised. As I wrote previously though, I'm gonna have to see the movie again to develop a more objective viewpoint on it. Hopefully they're still showing it here next week.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Who was that 'warlike' Romulan who stood behind that antagonist guy - he's been in Trek before and in B5 he was a General guy - I would have to say he was one of the THE worst actors in the entire run of B5.
I think he was the 2nd in charge of that classical music loving captain on Voyager's 'Counterpoint'"
According to the IMDb, J. Patrick McCormack played a "Commander" in ST10. He's also played "Admiral Bennett" on DS9, "Prax" on VOY, and "General Lefcourt"/"Lefcoury" (apparently someone made a typo somewhere) on B5.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OMG he's not the best actor. 'specially on B5 where he got a lot of screen time.
Another not great actor on B5 - the guy incharge of bringing B4 online in Babylon Squared. "We've got to get out of here!!"
OMG.
What DS9 episode was "Admiral Bennett" in?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
"Doctor Bashir, I Presume." The Eugenics Flub.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Beyond that, how about how it was wrong anyway. I guess DS9's story editors had forgotten TNG's "Unnatural Selection". If that wasn't genetic engineering, I don't know what is...
--Jonah
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
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