OK this episode wasnt that bad, although a few "tools" that trip uses to escape are identifiable as common tools used by mechanics. Does anyone remember how a ship that cant go faster than warp 2.2(get me right enterprise is still capable of warp 5)outrun Enterprise and get away, what happened to the sensors from the future,they arent just for stealth ship im sure that that would have some sort of long range scanning ability...thats like having a turbocharger and no engine....
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:HAPPY NOW
Many of our members don't have an opportunity to watch new episodes for quite some time after US posters. It is possible to be courteous to their desires not to be spoiled without coming across as a spoiled child.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I don't even get to watch the episodes until a friend downloads them for me since UPN == teh su><0rz, and I live in the U.S.
BTW, there is a Precious Cargo tech thread already, and the grammar there actually makes sense!
Here's some punctuation, articles, pronouns and properly tensed verbs, mix them up with that post and it might make sense: ,.??,;,"",' the, it, outran.
feel free to use CTRL-C to use them in later posts also.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I've already commented on the tech of this episode in the proper thread. (ahem) But let me say that this episode sucked.
First off, it's a poor ripoff of "Elaan of Troyius" and "The Perfect Mate" -- although I admit that I did appreciate the overt hints to the latter story that certainly built up some of the stellar-political background in the early years. It was actually a nice touch IMO to make Krios Prime a major power in this era, when we know that it's going to be conquered by the Klingons some time soon. Heck, this kind of setup would be fair game for a minor recurring story at some point, if the writers have any intention of doing that kind of episode.
I was reasonably impressed by Connor Trineer in this episode -- his acting basically saved the hour from being a total loss. The actress playing the First Monarch (or whatever) was certainly not bad, but her performance seemed forced. And let's not even mention the scene where they start out fighting and end up smooching. I saw that scene played out before in the DS9 Final Chapter, and it wasn't any better then, either.
(Aside: what is it with shows like this where they show the two love birds afterwards, fully clothed again? Isn't there some other way to preserve the PG rating? They showed more skin on Hoshi a few weeks ago than they did here...) (Not that I'm complaining especially -- just wondering because it doesn't seem to make sense. One of many issues in this series, of course.)
I'll admit that I did enjoy the rather amusing "good cop/bad cop" routine that Archer and T'Pol played, but it occurred to me later that this scene only served to show what a weenie our good Captain is, if he has to rely on the Vulcan to be the Bad Cop. Why can't he handle these kind of issues on his own ship? Surely Human starships have run into some kind of similar situation before?
In the end, although this story provided some amusement, I was severely disappointed by its lack of depth, both on the ship and on Planet Dagobah. This wasn't a story, it was just a sequence of events with very little in the way of motivations.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yes, much happier, thank you, Twatridden.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
The episode sucks? The series sucks.
They still can salvage this series by:
Short Term: Hire the writing staff from "Firefly" or Hire the junior wrtiters from "Andromeda" or Hire the Harvard guy from Ichy and Scratchy (Simpsons)
Long Term: They can't run this for seven or more years. They need to end it with in two years, with probably the Romulan War. Honestly i'll appreciate the pre-E getting rocked.
This would make a good CG of interstellar war with impulse fighters.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brown_supahero: They still can salvage this series by:
They can? Possibly, if the Trekkies of the world united to create a New Revolution for the Franchise...
quote:Short Term: Hire the writing staff from "Firefly" or
Never gonna happen. From what I heard, they tried to hire J. Michael Straczynski a few years back; he turned the job down without thinking twice. Star Trek is regarded as a creative dead-end for most of the REAL writers in Hollywood -- mainly because it's viewed as far too restrictive in terms of creativity: just about everything that could be done, has been done, and because the production staff and crew are in a massive rut, and they can't (or won't) try any other way.
quote:Hire the junior wrtiters from "Andromeda" or
God, I hope not! Andromeda sucks even worse than Enterprise! There were a few intelligent people, but they all got canned in the Great Sorbo Takeover. And most of those good writers are former Trek veterans anyway, and specifically LEFT the franchise for greener pastures.
quote:Long Term: They can't run this for seven or more years. They need to end it with in two years, with probably the Romulan War. Honestly i'll appreciate the pre-E getting rocked.
"Moichandising! Moichandising! Where the real money from the movie is made!" -- Yogurt
Star Trek is nothing more than a huge cash cow now, and the suits up at the top don't care about the writing as long as they've got obsessive-compulsive fanboys by their short-and-curlies who will buy worthless plastic phase-pistols because they think it's cool. The only thing that will force a major change in Trek is a massive ratings plunge that will induce the Paramount execs to hand Mr. Berman and Mr. Braga their pink slips, and either hire a completely new production staff or else let the franchise lay fallow for a few years to rest.
Now, shows have made turnarounds before. Deep Space Nine itself had a major change in its series premise, but I attribute its success to Ira Steven Behr and Robert Hewitt Wolfe, and the fact that the higher-ups had a hands-off policy with regard to that series. The DS9 writers were creative and willing to stick their necks out; sometimes they screwed up, but they took chances and tried to be interesting.
Enterprise is nothing of the sort. Enterprise is safe, and trying to be "sexy." But they're just trying to dress up a worn-down old house with some flashy gold trimmings. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are perfectly secure in their jobs right now -- they've got big fat paychecks from Paramount, and there is (or was) a guaranteed fan base ready to swallow whatever drivel they put out -- and thus they don't take chances. They've forgotten one of the major tenets of Trek:
"Risk is our business!"
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Andromeda sucks even worse than Enterprise! There were a few intelligent people, but they all got canned in the Great Sorbo Takeover.
Not all of 'em. The writing team known as ZackAsh is still quite good.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: The writing team known as ZackAsh is still quite good.
I stand corrected. Those guys *ARE* good -- and they wrote the only post-"Orobouros" episode that I actually thought was good: "The Knight, Death, and the Devil."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brown_supahero: They can't run this for seven or more years. They need to end it with in two years, with probably the Romulan War. Honestly i'll appreciate the pre-E getting rocked.
This would make a good CG of interstellar war with impulse fighters.
Yes! With the shooting and the explosions and the things going boom! That's what we want in Star Trek! Wars. Of some kind. And death. And kewl SFX. And more explosions. AND TEH DEF!ANTZ BL0W!N UP TEH BORGZ WIT TH!ER TYPE XXXXXXIIII PHAZ0RZ!!!!!!
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Heh.
What point is a war, if there's no drama or reason behind it? What good is the shooting if the people doing the shooting are idiots?
Archer is a dimwit. T'Pol is a clueless bimbo. Tucker is just plain irritating. Phlox is ALSO plain irritating. Reed is a caricature. Sato is a crybaby. Mayweather is a potted plant.
You can't fix a building if the foundation is faulty.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Good to see that Mr. Berman's hindsight is 20/20...
Watch them.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
If they really wanted to jumpstart the series now the only way ANY writer could do it would be to search online for script ideas in peoples personall web pages.... goto the source for all of the good ideas. I know that pretty much all the "NEW" tech seen in nemesis me and my retarded friends already thought up ...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I'm very nicely going to leave that alone.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
quote:retarded
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
bingo!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: If they really wanted to jumpstart the series now the only way ANY writer could do it would be to search online for script ideas in peoples personall web pages.... goto the source for all of the good ideas.
Are you sure you're not a Space Ghost writer? That's the funniest thing I've read all year, and I'm tall.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: If they really wanted to jumpstart the series now the only way ANY writer could do it would be to search online for script ideas in peoples personall web pages.... goto the source for all of the good ideas. I know that pretty much all the "NEW" tech seen in nemesis me and my retarded friends already thought up ...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
There are a few good ideas out there, for sure. But as a member of a group of writers who originally set out to "prove" that fans have better ideas than TPTB, let me say that the fans are not quite as ingenious as they might think.
Not only do you completely fail to grasp simple concepts as "intellectual copyright" and "royalty payments," but you also neglect the fact that finding feasible ideas for writing among the vast amounts of dreck on the Internet is like searching for a needle in a very large, very shitty haystack. (And I say that without venturing any opinion about just which examples of writing are not dreck, though I have my own personal opinions there.)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: The actress playing the First Monarch (or whatever) was certainly not bad, but her performance seemed forced. And let's not even mention the scene where they start out fighting and end up smooching.
Well, duh. By the end of the episode, she was probably all Tuckered out.
[duck]
Mark
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
You know, I actually felt all guilty over being so horrible to Hagridden, what with his spending time with special needs kids and all. But then I read his comment about 'third-world countries' and concluded he is a special needs kid. It pleases me we're attracting a wider variety of people to our little community. 8)
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote: Not all of 'em. The writing team known as ZackAsh is still quite good.
Mr's Stenzts and Miller have done a movie script, which will allow them to ask for more money at contract time, which will be after this season, so I wouldn't expect them to return next year.
Even though he is no longer associated with the show, Robert Wolf said that the forth season is on, leading me to believe that he is still in close contact with someone on the show, probably Zack and Ashley.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: You know, I actually felt all guilty over being so horrible to Hagridden, what with his spending time with special needs kids and all. But then I read his comment about 'third-world countries' and concluded he is a special needs kid. It pleases me we're attracting a wider variety of people to our little community. 8)
Sorry about that my 1337 gets out of hand when im happys.
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"I thank you for you honesty and i would like to add that i am fairly retarded and its amazing that im actaully here at all i mean i failed the IQ test those nice men in white jumpsuits gave me... i woder where they went, ooo well i guess their happy in a place."
quote:retarded
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
Jeez Eric that was good to bad i ate kenny tooo....
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Well, I happen to agree that the show needed a bit of time to lay fallow.
Too much too soon.
A pity that Star Trek has come to this. There is no easy fix. The only solution is to let it go for about 5 years and then come back to it.
But that will never happen, it makes Paramount too much money...
Then again, maybe not. Nemisis looks like it'll only bring in about $45million over its run. And then there is the fact they cancled the StarTrek Mag too. That sucks so bad it hurts.
Ah well. I'm off to polish my fanboy collection of Cool Startrek Dodads. Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Even if it were legal, ethical, and nonfattening, I don't think mining fanboy sites would yield much useable idea ore (as was suggested earlier).
If I were somehow magically given the creative reigns on a Star Trek show I'd go a wholly different direction than most people. I'd spend more money on the writing and less on the sets and effects. There are a lot of brilliant science fiction short stories that could be adapted to Trek episodes...I'd spend a what I could on obtaining the rights to those, and introduce some real sf concepts into the show instead of reworking the same old clich�s again and again.
Oh, yeah, and I'd forbid time travel stories. No more reset button stories, ever! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: There are a lot of brilliant science fiction short stories that could be adapted to Trek episodes...I'd spend a what I could on obtaining the rights to those, and introduce some real sf concepts into the show instead of reworking the same old clich�s again and again.
Oh, yeah, and I'd forbid time travel stories. No more reset button stories, ever!
Two things:
1/ Almost all of those short stories would be completely unworkable in Star Trek form. Okay, "Arena" worked, but Star Trek is about how the plot influences the main characters. Taking other stories and fitting them in would be horribly jarring. Plus, a lot of those stories would be full of the "same old chiches".
2/ If you got rid of "reset button stories", about 99.9% of every Star Trek story ever made would have to be burned.
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Which in turn would forever rid the world of Voyager reruns... hmm... you were saying?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That it would also rid the world of TOS reruns. And TNG reruns.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: 1/ Almost all of those short stories would be completely unworkable in Star Trek form. Okay, "Arena" worked, but Star Trek is about how the plot influences the main characters. Taking other stories and fitting them in would be horribly jarring. Plus, a lot of those stories would be full of the "same old chiches".
Clearly we disagree on this matter. Filmed (and televised) science fiction has typically lagged behind the literary variety in terms of concepts. The fact that Larry Niven was able to take one his own short stories and make it into a TAS episode illustrates that it can be done. Heck, that same story could have been done as a TNG episode with Starfleet versus the Romulans fighting over an Iconian weapon. There are a lot of other stories that could be similarly adapted.
quote:2/ If you got rid of "reset button stories", about 99.9% of every Star Trek story ever made would have to be burned.
"Reset button stories" wouldn't include most of TOS and a lot of TNG. It would throw away most of Voyager...but who's that hurting? Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
but then again "The Wounded Sky" was a decent story and i dont know how they made "Where No One Has Gone Before" out of it.. its clear that the TV format really rapes a story.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: but then again "The Wounded Sky" was a decent story and i dont know how they made "Where No One Has Gone Before" out of it.. its clear that the TV format really rapes a story.
I'd be interested in how much Duane changed of her own volition and how much was forced by the producers.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
probably no say.. i remember hearing peter david talk once, about how he sold an idea to TNG once, and once they bought it it was out of his hands.
they took it, rearranged it, cut it up and made a completely different story out of it, and then didnt make it. ah, tv-land!
Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"once they bought it it was out of his hands"
Hmm... not the kind of legal leg I'd want to $tand on.
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