Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Possible origin of 560ft Defiant

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Check out this picture I scanned from the Fact Files.
Defiant Bridge Location

OK, if we provide the ship with a 560ft length, the highlighted bit is about 9.5m long. The bridge set is roughly 9m long and fits rather nicely enclosed in this location.

Could this be the origin of the infamous 560ft length?

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Actually, no.
After all the questions about the size, they just pinned it to 560ft (170.7m).

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Surely they didn't just pull the figure from out of the air. I would like to give them more credit than that.

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

The theory is just as good as any other. What they all probably have in common is the "quick-estimate" syndrome.

Boris

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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Is it just me or is the highlighted said bridge in that pic misproportioned? (If so, wouldn't that make a difference...?)

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Actually, one thing I would really like to know - the exact length of the Defiant bridge set. 9m was an educated guess but still only a guess.

Oh yeah, I'm not sure how accurate the schematic is. I know it slightly differs from the DS9TM one.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

I just didn't think the bridge set was so much of a rounded triangle...

Since the set itself is now dismantled, the only way one could find out is to get one's hands on a copy of the Defiant bridge set blueprints... Hey, that would be nice...

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

FWIW, the above diagram and the DS9TM one don't match up.

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Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Go figure...now I'd like the same people who said the Defiant was 170m to tell me why the hell the Aeorwing shuttle on Voyager was never seen fully or used at all in the Voyager TM.

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Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Uhh... the Voyager TM isn't out yet so we can't really tell that the Aerowing won't be in it.

And besides, canonically, there is not necessarily an Aerowing Shuttle, yet there is a Defiant length, so why would comparing messing up one and not using the other be significant? *is a tad confused*

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Don't you see? Both ships were designed by the Freemasons!

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

There are 4 things that make me think 560ft is feasible for the Defiant -

1. The existance of the relatively small escape pods. 12 pods to cater for 50 crew. Now, these pods would be too small at 120m, yet nicely sized at 170m

2. The shuttlebay. The bay door and shuttle itself are horribly small at 120m, 170m works here.

3. A 170m Defiant compares well to a 110m BoPrey (going by visual evidence). Of course, this comparison relies on the BoP size.

4. Comparisons with the DS9 station. Again, this depends on the station scale.

Yes, I realize that 120m has often been used, I'm just making the point that the larger size still has significance.

As for the AeroWing, what else would that pattern on the bottom of Voy's saucer represent? The vessel probably exists but just hasn't been used. Hopefully the Tech Manual will cover it.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I reckon that the aerowing shuttle was originally going to be Chakotay's ship - which docked there... but the story got changed after the Voyager design had been finalised. There are SOME similarities between the aerowing shuttle and Chakotay's ship.

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

I doubt it, somehow. Why would a Starship be designed to dock with a Maquis ship? What would have been at the Voy's saucer bottom until they encountered the Maquis? You're describing a paradox, AndrewR.

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

Dax: I'm still puzzling over the size of that shuttle. Need to see more of the interior to make an accurate guess. DS9 is *something* of a problem since the Defiant has to fit structurally in that dock. Escape pods: does anyone have screencaps of these launching?

As for the AeroShuttle (it's no longer AeroWing since the producers forgot to copyright the name before someone used in a Duffy Duck show) - the theory is intriguing since Chakotay's ship reuses the runabout cockpit, and the AeroShuttle is supposed to be a runabout with wings. Still, I'm not sure that the crew would have modified the underside to allow the ship to dock...

Boris

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Boris: I've got a clip of the Defiant destruction but it's too big to post (about 10Mb). Trust me though, the pods are rather small. It's possible to determine an upper size limit by measuring the hatches they come from (2 pods per hatch).

BTW, the Valiant hatches near the nose are in a different spot than the Defiant ones - explain that!

We probably won't see any more of that shuttle (I don't know if it appears in The Final Chapter).

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Dax: What makes you think the maquis invented that design? I thought that whas just their preferred choice of ship. Though I admit it does seem ludicrous to build a brand new starfleet ship and make it compatible for merging with a 30 year old scout!

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Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Err... I was under the assumption that when the Defiant is docked at DS9, it supports neither 120 or 170 metres, more like 200-something.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, it depends on how big DS9 is. If we go by the structural size, it's smaller than 170m, but if we go by the really huge sizes going around, it's >220m.

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Oh, yes. DS9 does the "I-can-change-size-so-nyah!" thing, too. How silly of me.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

DS9 seems to love changing sizes as much as the Defiant and BoPs. Ever noticed how small the docked Nebula-class is in the intro?

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

That docked Nebula in the DS9 opening (USS Leeds) is the four-foot model we've seen before. I do wonder how that ship can dock on the upper pylon or lower pylon since I can't see any access hatch like on the Galaxy Classes and Intrepid Classes. I think that that model should go for a refit...more like add more detail.

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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life"

-Backstreet Boys

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

I'd like to know where the Defiant docking port is. The ship seems to dock via its deflector array(!)