Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Peregrine.....again!!!

This is topic Peregrine.....again!!! in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

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Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Ok, I am trying to make sense of the Peregrine headache, so exactly how many different ships have been described on screen as Peregrine? I am trying to put together some BS to make sense of it all, so if anybody has theory by all means share it. I apologize if this starts a heated debate.

I also would like to know if anybody has schematic of peregrine that they would let me use on my webpage. I of course will site the source with credit in the admiralty and a link to their page.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

None of the ships we've seen have been referred to as Peregrines, actually; the term was only mentioned once, in "Heart of Stone" (DS9).

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Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

Well the way I think of it , this is actually a huge misunderstanding between the makers of the Encyclopedia and some internet ST webmasters.

Let me take it from the Top. If you look in the St encyclopedia under Academy Trainer you will find a picture of a small fighter like craft with the Academy logo on it this is infact the Peregrine Class Fighter from "Heart of Stone" [DS9] now the real confusion came when alot of the trek websites listed the Maquis raider from "Cartaker" [VOY] as the peregrine class , anyway thats my thoery im not entirly sure.

Here's a picture of what i believe to be a Peregrine Class fighter.

This is a scan of the Academy Trainer from the ST Encyclopedia you can see the similarities.

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"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons"

Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research & Development

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 16, 2000).]

Posted by bonecrusher on :

Your right, the Peregine is the fighter used in Sacrifice of Angels, and the What you leave behind. The encyclopedia was wrong by calling it a trainer.

The Maquis raider is the larger "fighter" or raider since it carried up to 5-7 maquis not exactly sure, in Cartaker.

Now both of these ships appeared in the episode TNG where ensign Ro goes to the maquis. THe Peregine is the ship that has the pictures above, now in this episode the Caretaker "maquis raider" was the original model, it was later changed and enlarged for the raider in Cartaker.

So here is a summary

there are 2 ships
the official Stafleet Fighter the Peregine
(ds9) Sacrifice of Angels, What you leave behind
(TNG) episode where Ro leaves Stafleet

Cartaker "maquis raider"
only seen once in Star Trek Voyager's Caretaker, then destroyed
(Voy) Caretaker
****This ship was a modified model of the other maquis ship used in the TNG episode where Ro leaves Starfleet

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"I Got two words for you.. S*uck it!"-DeGeneration X
Oh Hell Ya there back!

Bonecrusher
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Er... Part of what they've said is right. But there's nothing definitive to say that that ship is the Peregrine. In "Heart of Stone", someone mentions that the Maquis are using modified Peregrine-class couriers. However, there was no ship shown on screen in reference to this name.

Some sources (at least one of Okuda, Sternabch, or Stipes, I'm not sure which) say that the fighters used in the battles scenes of the Dominion War are probably the Perries. But, like I said, nothing definitive. However, most people have accepted this idea. If this is ever fixed in the encyclopedia, or in a tech manual, it will probably say that the fighters are Peregrines.

But, then, the Peregrine could just as easily be something we've never seen before. The assignation of the name to the fighters simply stems from people's desire to match known names to known ships. Since we know the Maquis used ships like the Fed fighters, it was a logical, if unprovable, solution. Believe what you will.

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"The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate."
-Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

It's of interest that in "Heart of Stone", a modified Peregrine class courier is supposed to be pilotable by a single fellah. So it cannot really be the same ship flown by Chakotay in "Caretaker" and Eddington and friends in "For the Uniform", since Chakotay required a crew of at least three to fight with his ship (he could ram it into the Kazon alone, though).

Anyway, while the DS9 finale doesn't mention the name Peregrine, it at least seems to establish that the little fighter formations are called "tactical wings" (nomenclature used in many earlier episodes but never explained). As things are going badly, Sisko asks such units to escort his ship through the battle, but finds out that attrition has been too high and the formations are no longer effective. A DS9 "tactical wing" seems to be a group of something like five to ten fighters.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

The thing is... that the peregrine from Heart of Stone was able to land on the planetoid... although maybe a la "Chimera" the female changeling was actually the ship...

If it was a real ship - those wings must be able to lift up... or there are landing pads.

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

I would go with the landing pads idea. If the Danube Class, the Defiant Class, the Intrepid Class, and the various shuttles can land on planetary surfaces, I would think that the Peregrine Class could do the same.

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Is this the feeling, I need to walk in
Tell me why I can't be there where you are
There's something missing in my heart

-Backstreet Boys

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I'd suggest folding wings. If you put a seam just inboard of those wing cannon, you get a flat underside for the entire craft. It can rest on those strange corrugated pads that are used on the shuttles and runabouts - they need not extend much, just twenty centimeters to protect the nose phaser, less if the nose phaser retracts at landing.

While folding wings may not be the most practical solution out there, they nicely associate the craft with naval fighters, an association that certainly is well-founded in light of the role of these craft in the DS9 battles. Plus, it might be visually impressive. The wings would power-fold as the craft approaches ground or the shuttlebay doors; they'd come to rest against the angled surfaces of the crosswise hull beam aft of the cabin. The pads would extend slightly, and the craft would settle down with a sigh of vapors from the underside of the aft engine blocks...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Well the folding wing idea would fit for the Maquis fighter... it has those streaked sections at the top of each 'wing' - like the Klingon Bird-of-prey... that would assist in folding...

The Maquis ship looks like the Federation's answer to the BOP...

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Bonecrusher, I think the raider from "Caretaker" held more like 40 people, since the entire maquis-part of Voyager's crew was on that ship.

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Somehow we're going somewhere.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

As TSN and others have said already, there is no canon evidense that either of the two ships in question is the Peregrine Class. However, the Monogram model of Chakotay's Maquis Raider has a little paragraph about the ship and says that it is a Peregrine Class ship. I know that this is hardly canon, but they had to get their info from somewhere, and I would think that it would have had to have been approved by one of TPTB.

Plus, the ship looks like a friggin' bird!!! A Peregrine is a bird...the ship looks like a bird...that always seemed to me to be an "on purpose" kind of thing.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bonecrusher on :

Sorry about the Caretaker "raider" crew number i thought it was like 40, but I wasnt sure.

Anyways which ship are you talking about that could have the folding wings, the Starfleet fighters, or the Caretaker "raider"?

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"I Got two words for you.. S*uck it!"-DeGeneration X
Oh Hell Ya there back!

Bonecrusher
http://members.xoom.com/smartiee

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I prefer to go the save way, and completely ignore the word Perigrine in any designation. We've seen it used only ones, and did not get to see a ship. That's all we have...

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

bonecrusher: I believe the SF fighter is the one in question (the folding wings).

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Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Here is a possibility, maybe is Peregrine is less of a specific class designation,and more of manufacturing designation. For example, 7 once called the Maqui raide a liberty class something or other, so you could call it a Liberty class Peregrine. I personally love the idea of having a manufacturer of civilian space craft like the peregrine with hundreds of models of all different sizes and capabilities. The fighter could be a high end model specifically designed at starfleets request, and the raiders were designed for a more function and practical purpose of courier or fast civilian transport. They all have the a similar design, so is it too much of a stretch to contemplate them all being Peregrines?
Any Thoughts?

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

So "Peregrine" would be similar to "Runabout" or "Dreadnought" - a word whose direct English translation means something but whose usage in naval or Starfleet language is something else altogether? Just like Dreadnought is a big proto-battleship (or in the Trek context a three-nacelled big warship), and Runabout is a speedboat, Peregrine would be a courier?

This might work. But it doesn't sound natural. I mean, there already exists the term "courier" in Starfleet parlance: no competing word is needed to portray the concept. And "Peregrine class modified courier" would be redundant - "courier class modified courier"! Even if we chose other meanings for the term, like Peregrine=fast transport or Peregrine=clipper or
Peregrine=cutter or Peregrine=ship-to-be-used-for-rebellions, the expression "Peregrine class courier" would be rather nonsensical.

I'd be happier with the idea that Peregrine is a standard class name just like Constitution or Galaxy or Danube. We already have enough of a headache from the Antares class, another name that gets assigned to multiple designs (heck, including Chakotay's ship!).

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Timo: More of a description for all ships made by the Peregrine bureau, or what ever manufacture produces that type of craft. The idea is that they all are Peregrines by name , but the difference are their models. Given a larger Peregrine, it might become know as a Liberty class Peregrine, so a class name is used instead of a model number. Cessna' I believe produces many different aircraft , but all retain the name Cessna with the only different being a model number. All ships produced by this production organization would be similar enough to be referred to as Peregrines.

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[This message has been edited by bear (edited January 18, 2000).]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

"For example, 7 once called the Maqui raide a liberty class something or other,"

Actually, that was just in a non-canon book...it called Chakotay's ship the Liberty, and Antares-class, which doesn't make sense (especially since the ship was called the "Zola" in an early draft of "Parallax").

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Bonecrusher I was talking about the big one from "Caretaker" which was stemming from the landing comment about the smaller version... but the landing/folding wings thing could apply to both... I was just saying that the "ribs" that are attached to the top end of the wings - closest to the body of the ship look like those corrogated ribs things on the Klingon BOP - seen in ST:III et al.

Andrew

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I just noticed something I could use on another tread, does someone have a side view of Chakotay's ship?

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited January 19, 2000).]

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Does anybody have a Maqui raider schematic that they would let me use as a reference on my webpage?

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Bear, try this link to Star Ship Schematics...
http://www.shipschematics.net/

hope you find what you need

Andrew

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/fighter_raider.jpg

I think this is what you're looking for, Bear.

Andrew

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"All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Thanks everybody. I should have the raider finished in a couple of days.

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Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Ok, does anybody have a good idea of the raiders general specifications?
For example, production base, performance dimensions, mass, armament, etc.
Note: the more conservative the better

Oh, I am also looking for a master system display, or internal view of the raider. I realize the MSD probably doesn't exist, but I figure I would ask anyway.

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The only internal stuff we've seen on any variants is the cockpit.

But I did find schematics on The Vorlon's page:
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/Schematics/Schematics.html

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

I guess I will have to manufacture some technobable, and I'll post it here to see what you guys think.

Altar: what do you think some general specifications of the raider and the peregrine.

Type
Dimensions
Mass
Armament
Max warp
Etc.

Speculation?

I'll have to ask Vorlon for permission to use his graphic for a reference. Do you think he will let me?
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[This message has been edited by bear (edited January 21, 2000).]

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

I have size figures for all three offending articles. Will post 'em later.

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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

OK, this is what I THINK:

Chakotay's ship (before Maquis enhancements):
Type: Civilian ship/Courier
Dimensions: About 80 meters long
Mass: Don't know, and frankly, don't care.
Age: At least 40 years old.
Armament:
- Civilian ship: probably only the wing-tip phasers
- Courier: some 4-6 phasers and 4 torpedo launchers

Note: I think this is the Peregrine, because the Peregrine was called a courier. Also this ship can be a very good civilian ship. And Sisko said the Maquis used civilian ships that were refitted with weapons.

Fighter as seen in DS9 battles:
Type: Attack Fighter
Dimensions: About 30 metres long
Age: About the same age as the Courier, given the similaurities in design.
Armament:
- 1 phaser under the nose
- 2 times 3 phaser cannons on the wings (you can see them on the picture, they probably shoot in sequence, not at the same time)
- 1 or 2 forward torpedo launchers
- maybe a few extra phasers poining in other directions
Comments: This ship has probably got close to no internal 'walkable' space. Maybe a small cargo hold, or some sleeping facility, but the rest is most likely used for machines like the power core.
Note: These ships have ALWAYS been refered to as Attack Fighters, even by the Cardasians! This and the lack of proper internal cargo space to be called a Courier to me is enough evidents that this is NOT the Peregrine.

Ro's ship seen in the TNG episode 'Preemptive Strike':
Variant of the Attack Fighter, because the cockpit is the same size.

Academy Trainer:
I think that side view seen in part 1 of this tread is of the Fighter. This is wat the Trainer looks like:

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited January 21, 2000).]

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Altair: That is a killer picture of the Academy Trainer. I've never seen it before. Where did you find it?

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I don't know, I have got that picture for years now. I do know it was on a page that also tried to explain the Peregrine problem. But I don't know what his/her conclusion was.

Anyway, I forgot the Warp speed: I think the best quess for the Courier and the Attack Fighter is that it is probably the same as a Runabout, about warp 8, 9 at max.

I don't know if the Trainer has any Warp capability...

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited January 21, 2000).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OK these two pics I touched up for my web site - they are of the original studio model... but I made them more... realistic?

Andrew
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4710/pere2bottom.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4710/pere2top.jpg

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Ack!! What plugin did you use??

BTW: Do still you have the originals? I'd like to have them...

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Looks like he used one of Photoshop's "artistic" filters. "Watercolor", or some such...

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Yes - it was just to clean up those studio photos - like the one on the first page...

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Ok, but can you put the original versions on the internet too?? I'd like to have those pics.

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Try here:
http://employees.csbsju.edu/rsorensen/modelcitizen/trekships/maquis/index.html

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Could I get somebody to scale the Raider to a person so I have some frame of reference in building a master system display. I figured the Raider has about two decks, extremely small crew quarters , so its probably safe to assume most of the available space is taken up by machinery.
Oh, how many Maqui crew members are there?
15
20
25
30
I honestly can't imagine more than 20 individuals in such a small ship.

Best guess if you will?

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[This message has been edited by bear (edited January 23, 2000).]

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Construction continues�

Flash required http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/raidertac.html

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I don't know if you've covered this, but anyway. In what episode did we first see the maquis raider?

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Somehow we're going somewhere.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited January 24, 2000).]

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

Maquis raider was seen in DS9 episodes the Maquis Part 2, For the Uniform and in Voy the caretaker and the ships varied in size from 2 man ships to the larger version.

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I'll have to go watch it (The Maquis Parts 1 and 2) again - but I'm pretty sure the larger Raider - Chakotay's was ONLY seen in "Caretaker"

I reckon two decks, and sleeping bunks like the Defiant or the Runabout.

Who is to know that the Maquis hadn't stuffed crew aboard their ship... or had it increadibly undermanned...

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited January 24, 2000).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Bear, it is spelt Maquis not Maqui. (I was at your page, there was a typo in your class summary...)

BTW - did you do the MSD!?! VERY VERY COOL!

love the warp core...

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited January 24, 2000).]

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

lol..How did you like the class summary that doesn't even make sense, and repeats over and over?

Is the interior scale too small for two decks?

Now all I have to do is find a place for the captain�s head, and persuade Necro to produce some of that fine reading material of his...lol

Thanks Andrew.

[This message has been edited by bear (edited January 24, 2000).]

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I thought the internal configuration you came up with was pretty nice too. I think it fits well with that size of ship.

Consider the possibility though, that this ship might have a horizontal warp core like the Danube class.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

I am glad you thought of the that, I was wondering that as well, so in the second draft I will change the core to horizontal configuration.

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Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Aban: I changed the orientation of the core. Is the placement of the anti-matter pods above the core incorrect? I was trying to make them easy to access and remove if the need should a rise.

Andrew: I change the Summary a little, but it still is only my second draft, so your going to have to bear with me.

Note: Oh,you might have to empty you cache to view the changes.

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Better late than never:

Chakotay's type ship was used several times in DS9, most of them were Eddingtons ships.

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :

It's almost complusory for me to post this link in every thread about the Peregrine.

http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/peregrine.html.

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-->Identity Crisis<--

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Bear: Me like! I may be wrong about this (and I'll have to look at the Danube specs again) but do the matter and antimatter pods have to be at the tips of the warp core? I always thought that they did so that the pods could feed directly into the injectors. But yes, the antimatter pods should be along the outer hull so as to be ejectable in the event of a containment breach.

I love the idea of having ladders all over the engine room (it appears that you have noted a few of these in your MSD). Man I want to see the inside of one of these puppies now!!

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Steve: I am going with all proposed designs as Peregrines. I am willing to be wrong to appease both camps, and I will put a disclaimer under the class logo on the opening frame which notes the disparity of these ships, than a link to you view

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

[This message has been edited by bear (edited January 25, 2000).]

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

The thing is, Peregrine was said to be a class, not a general umbrella term for a whole pile of different shaped smallcraft. It's one or none of the proposed designs, but not all...

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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

OK, Tom I am not going to debate with you over some passing statements that was said off hand with little or no clarity. I came to my conclusion by realizing that class doesn't necessarily mean a specific design with no variations. The three designs addressed as Peregrines were sufficiently different from standard Starfleet vessel to warrant the assumption that they were not produced by Starfleet. While this in itself is a rather large assumption, the idea of a civilian manufacture gives credence to the idea of a space faring society that doesn't depend solely on Starfleet for transportation. Assuming that the first peregrine design was launch during or after the Cardassian wars, it is not impossible to believe that since many many variation have been produced. Production of these vessels would be huge in comparison to starships, and with so many ships being produced its possible that the need for more tailored configuration, arose eventually leading to completely different models. Because of their size, large numbers of vessels in use, and the personal mentality of their owners, the need for distinctions by Starfleet became insignificant.

"I got a Ford." (manly sniffs and pulls up his pants)
"What do you got?"

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Update

Flash required http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/raidertac.html

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

While I believe that the Peregrine is a single class in the normal sense, I feel that, for the sake of completeness, I should point out that there have been instances in the past of the term "class" being used for what we would probably call "types" or even "classifications". For example, the "Starship Class" of the E-nil's dedication plaque. Didn't someone even once use the term "runabout class"?

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

IIRC Sisko said "runabout class" in "Emissary".

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Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Did Picard speak of both Galaxy class and Explorer class in "Farpoint"?

It would seem that class indeed is used for "type"
as well. Yet, I have difficulty believing that Chakotay's/Eddington's big ship would be of the same type the small "The Maquis pt II" ships/"Sacrifice of Angels" interceptors, or the craft flown by Lt.Ro in "Preemptive Strike", represent.

Some of the Maquis craft are clearly of "courier type" or "auxiliary courier type" (both are mentioned explicitly). Some might be of "raider type", too. What other "types" could we assign to the Maquis designs?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Bear, do you have any other MSDs that you've done?

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Cool and cool! I love how the wing appears when the mouse rolls over it. Very cool!

I can totally picture a set design based on your engine room. I envision a raised semi rounded division in the floor with the blue glowing sections of the warp core pulsing into the middle. Then towards the back of the room, the plasma conduits would break off. They'd be slightly smaller and red. Maybe a "balcony" deck above the core with lots of grated flooring and ladders!

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Actually this is my first effort because my knowledge of the interior layout is somewhat limited. I don't really have a background in CAD or physics, so I am already at disadvantage to many people on the this forum. My artistic skills are equally limited, but with a lot of effort sometimes I can pull things off. I am still refining the layout, so don't be supprised at the change of some minor details.
I really appreciate all the help and the encouragement from everybody.

Does anybody know where I could find some CGI of the raider, or screen captures for episodes? that they would let me post on the raider page.

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

Maybe they just made two versions like the Kilingon bird of prey one smaller and one larger

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"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy

members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Silly ME! I didn't realise if you right clicked you could ZOOM right in! You don't loose any detail either!

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Cool! That does work. I like it even more now!

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Ok, once upon a time I remember seeing Chakotay's ship in several different DS9 episodes, but I can't remember which ones, so if someone would be so kind as to state them or point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Star Trek Ships: Expanded
Peregrine Class Courier

DS9 "The Maquis, Part I"

Modified
DS9 "The Maquis, Part I"
[ 2 ]
DS9 "The Maquis, Part II"

Modified
DS9 "Heart of Stone"

Maquis raider
DS9 "For the Cause"

Maquis raider
Captain Michael Eddington
DS9 "For the Uniform"

Maquis raider
Destroyed by USS Defiant
DS9 "For the Uniform"
[ 6 ]
DS9 "A Time to Stand"
[ 16+ ]
(part of the Federation force to retake Deep Space Nine; outnumbered 2:1)
DS9 "Favor the Bold"
[ 15+ ]
(part of the Federation force to retake Deep Space Nine; at least four destroyed)
DS9 "Sacrifice of Angels"
[ 7+ ]
DS9 "What You Leave Behind"

Destroyed
DS9 "What You Leave Behind"
Peregrine Type (Nemecek)
[ Oval-nosed shape used in TNG/VOY ]
[ 9 ]
TNG "Preemptive Strike"

Ro Laren, pilot
Abandoned; recovered by USS Enterprise
TNG "Preemptive Strike"

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Joe Creighton's list requires a bit of adjusting... Perhaps the following abbreviations could be used:

-TM for the type introduced in "The Maquis", later used in the Dominion war as well
-PS for the type introduced in "Preemptive Strike"
-CT for the type introduced in "Caretaker"; modified from PS

Also, [V] would be inserted when we actually see a visual of the ship.

Then the list would read:

[2]TM[V]
DS9 "The Maquis, Part II"

[4+]PS[V]
[4+]TM[V]
TNG "Preemptive Strike"
-one piloted by Ro Laren, abandoned and captured by E-D

[1]?
DS9 "Heart of Stone"
-single-pilot craft called "modified Peregrine-class courier", but not seen

[1]CT[V]
VOY "Caretaker"
-more than 30 crew, destroyed by ramming to Kazon ship

[1]CT or PS [barely glimpsed]
DS9 "For the Cause"

[2]CT[V]
DS9 "For the Uniform"
-one captained by Michael Eddington, one destroyed by the Defiant

[6]TM[V]
DS9 "A Time to Stand"

[16+]TM[V]
DS9 "Favor the Bold"

[15+]TM[V]
DS9 "Sacrifice of Angels"
-called "interceptor"; at least four destroyed

[7+]TM[V]
DS9 "What You Leave Behind"
-part of "tactical attack wings"

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The one in 'For the Cause' is a definate 'Chakotay-type'.

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Well, as if the topic wasn't already confusing enough, consider this...

The Yeager class starship's butt looks alot like a scaled up version of Chakotay's ship (because in reality it is exactly that). Perhaps there are actually 3 scales of this equipment, the small fighter size seen in Preemptive, the Chakotay size from Caretaker, and an even larger size designed for use on the Yeager Class.

The whole point of this post is that the use of a third size of this type equipment lends creedance to the fact that there are several versions ships that look like Chakotay's though only one of them may or may not be a Peregrine class...

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Has anybody considered the fact that in real life there are several falcons that are confuse with being Peregrines. I doubt that it was a strategic plot to mislead fans, but the comparison remains valid.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Er... Ah... What comparison, again? People can't tell birds apart now, so they can't tell ships apart in the future?

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

The comparison of people's difficulty in discerning which of three designs is the actual Peregrine class ship ,and difficulty in identifying whether a falcon is in fact a Peregrine falcon. lol...take it easy TSN, I was just trying to lighten the mood a little. I apologize if it came off a little harsh. I swear we all take this ship design thing way too seriously. If anything I was hoping you would have pointed out that this instance of confusion lends credibility to the concept of only one ship being the Peregrine.
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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

[This message has been edited by bear (edited February 02, 2000).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Yes! Exactly - and since that in "Heart of Stone" the Peregrine class courier - as Odo called it housed - 1 life form and one 'statis chamber'... and landed on the planetoid. AND Odo and Kira had no qualms about chasing it... in a runabout - so that knocks out the Yeager sized and Chakotay sized

potential peregrines.

so it could either be the attack fighter seen numerous times during the Dominion war i.e. in Operation Return or whatever or the smallest version of the Peregrine - seen in "Pre-emptive" that has a small window instead of several windows in the 'bridge' section - and the DS9 'gang' took on such ships in The Maquis Part II... in runabouts...

Its one of these two...

I'm leaning towards the Ro Laren ship from Pre-emptive.

Andrew

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Man, I have got to watch "Maquis I&II"!!

One of the peregrine-designs has two small knobs on the nose. Since they look kinda like the knobs on the shoulders of the Defiant I have a dream of an upgraded peregrine with a pair of pulse-phasers in the nose. Am I the only one here?

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An arboretum? On the Defiant?
If you were any other man I would kill you where you stand!

(Worf "The Last Straw")

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I'm coming to think that the fighters we saw in "Maquis pt II" and the DS9 war episodes have nothing to do with Peregrines whatsoever.

These fighters have never been referred to as couriers, and frankly, they do not look as if they could perform that mission (which would involve carrying not only information but also small parcels and people at high speeds). They seem like pure military machines, lacking even the amenities of a runabout.

OTOH, both the smaller ("Preemptive Strike") and larger ("Caretaker", "For the Cause", "For the Uniform") versions of the Maquis ships that have the pressing-iron bow shape could very well be courier vessels, since both have sufficient internal space. We know the Peregrine is a modified courier pilotable by a single person - the smaller ship would fit the bill, and could also carry the stasis chamber since the interior is the roomy "alien shuttle" interior familiar from TNG.

We also know that an "auxiliary courier" was used for an attack in "The Maquis pt I". Chakotay's ship was nearly 40 years old, certainly enough to relegate the design to the "auxiliary" category.

So I'd say that the smaller ship from "Preemptive Strike" is the one and only Peregrine class ship, while the other designs are still pending a canonical name. And all the better that way, since if several different ships were called Peregrines, that would mean less chances to apply cool new names. Things like "Falcon class" or "Eagle class" or "Sparrowhawk class" must be in use somewhere in Starfleet...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Dodo class... not seen for a while that one

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"...it might be easier to study
ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the
Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Timo: Ah...Peregrine is a type of falcon.

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

Ok, if one is the Peregrine than it's possible that the remaining similar designs are named after other types of falcons.
What does everybody think?

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

[This message has been edited by bear (edited February 03, 2000).]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"Sparrowhawk"? Hm... I think I prefer "Chicken Hawk", constantly at odds w/ the USS Foghorn Leghorn... :-)

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"