Ok, here we go!
1)
Where is that picture of the DY-500 from (both schematic and computer-screen) Is that NAR canon? Is a DY-500 capable of warp? When was it launched?
2) http://w1.314.telia.com/~u31412332/misc/early1.htm
Where is that Romulan ER-War ship picture from? Canon?
3)
Ares 4 was launched in 2032. That's 36 years later than Khan's ship to Ceti Alpha. They could've reached MArs with DY-ships!
4) What where the launch dates and destinations of the following ships: Charybdis, Nomad and al the early thing I forgot.

The reason?
I'm planning on making my own lil' timeline of the late 20th and early 21th century, with the Eugenics Wars and WW3.

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[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited June 26, 2000).]
 

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"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."
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About the rego: it was identified as New United Nations registry NAR-7678.

Probably the DY-500 should be warp-capable, because they wouldn't have made it to the Ficus Sector on impulse only. On the other hand, the screen did mention that the DY-500 was propelled by a Yoyodyne pulse-fusion engine.

It was launched on November 27, 2123, from the Baikonur Cosmodrome (IRL: the place where the Russians launch their junk in orbit). The time of arrival was uncertain, but the screen mentioned somewhere between 2160 and 2170. That's a 40-50 years trip! That might be another clue that the Mariposa was not warp-capable.

Since this info was all derived from a computer screen, and the screen was legible, I would say it's canon. Identification not by me, BTW, but I found it in James Dixon's Chronology. I saw UtLL quite a while ago, and I did saw some stuff on the screen, but I didn't took the time to freeze-frame my VCR and figure it all out. I guess I'll just go with JD.

Also other interesting mentions on the computer: it gives a list of the ships launched towards Ficus Sector between 2102 and 2187. Watch the 'in-jokes'!

2102: SS Hokule'a, DY-500-C class, Capt. Melinda Snodgrass, mission: deep space exploration.

2105: VK Yuri Gagarin, DY-732 class, Capt. Winrich Kolbe, mission: colonization.

2119: SS Tombiki, RT-2203 class, Capt. Peter Lauritson, mission: deep space exploration.

2120: SS Seattle, class unknown, registry NAR-18834, Capt. Wendy Neuss, mission: ADR Looping (????).

2120: HMS Lord Nelson, DY-500-B class, Capt. Young Jae Kim, mission: deep space exploration.

2123: SS Mariposa, DY-500 class, Capt. Walter Granger, 1st Officer Melinda Snodgrass, Chief Engineer Winrich Kolbe, mission: colonization.

2135: HMS New Zealand, DY-732 class, Capt. Bob Lederman, diplomatic mission to Alderaan (!!! Crossover with Star Wars! I believe Princess Leia comes from Alderaan.)

2137: SS Buckaroo Banzai, BBI-993 class, Capt. John Whorfin (maybe the Whorfin class is named after him), mission: visit to Planet 10.

2146: SS Urusei Yatsura, DY-430 class, Capt. Dave Glick, mission: nebula survey

2160: VK Velikan, DY-1200 class, Capt. Gene Roddenberry, mission: to explore strange new worlds (sic!)

2183: DEV Eagle Valley, DY-950 class, Capt. Dan King, mission: colonization

2187: SS Hatteras, DY-245 class, Capt. Gary Loes, mission: deep space exploration

Guess it's time that we should update our ship lists!
(I already did, a couple of weeks ago)

About the Rommie ship: it comes from the Chronology. However it's probable merely intended as a filler, but it would still be semi-canon.

Ares-4? Maybe it *is* a DY-series vessel. Apart from DY-100 and DY-500, we don't know how the other DY-series vessels looked like. And if it's not a DY, we can blame the writers and say it's bad research.

The Charybdis was launched by NASA in 2037 (or was it 2036?) as the third attempt to leave the Sol system with a manned vessel. It might have been a sleeper ship, because warp wasn't invented yet. No destination has been specified on-screen. Ep: "Hotel Royale" (TNG)

Nomad: launched in 2002 by some eccentric scientist. Again: no destination, but just an attempt to make it to the stars. The Nomad was an unmanned probe, BTW.

For your work: you might consult JD's Chronology. The latest version is updated through VOY season 5 and DS9 season 7. It also contains fandom stuff and novels, so beware! You can download it at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Crater/2077/scifi.htm (almost 900Kb zipped, 2.2Mb when unzipped).

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[This message has been edited by TSN (edited June 27, 2000).]
 

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BTW pIn'a'Sov, where does that sublight freighter come from (it's listed on your Early Starships page). Name? Class? Race/government/alliance? Source? Etc.?

[This message has been edited by Alpha Centauri (edited June 26, 2000).]
 

Which makes me think that the word "Antares" is like B5's thing about every race having the equivalent of Swedish meatballs (minus the Vorlon's version being self-aware). Maybe "Antares" is a common word in most aline languages. For us, it's the name of a star. In Bajoran, it means "crappy old impulse ship." In Klingon, it means "target practice."

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 

Boris

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited June 26, 2000).]
 

There's an Okudagram about the Charybdis in "ST: The Continuing Mission", listing some of the experiments run aboard (an early USAF shield device among others). The disappearance is described as "drive system anomaly, loss of telemetry", and a follow-up mission is mentioned as getting "negative response", whatever that means.. I'm not sure where the Okudagram would have been used, since none are clearly shown in "The Royale". Perhaps it was on Data's PADD or something.

(Interestingly, Geordi's screen in that episode says that the hellish planet is a "Class C" world - a fact the Encyclopedias fail to mention)

The Mariposa could have had warp two in the TOS scale and would still have required decades of travel time to get to a sector that doesn't immediately adjoin sector 001. And this Ficus sector was supposed to be relatively unexplored. 50 years at sublight shouldn't take you to a place that remains "unexplored" or even "rarely visited" in the 2360s.

Timo Saloniemi
 

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SO, these things are canon? If we just change some names a little to more realistic things.
Alderaan -> Aldebaran for example.

Classes:
DY-500-C
DY-732
RT-2203
DY-500-B
BBI-993
DY-430
DY-1200
DY-950
DY-245

So, these names are probably the official names for class, maybe bases on some arrangement of M/ARAs or other systems. Do I see another ASDB job coming in?
Maybe Masao can use some of this info, the ships seem to be from around the Rommie War.

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The Okudagram from "The Royale" could well be from the bridge station monitor we never saw. Incidentally, the text states that the ship had hibernation capability ("20% possibility of crew survival with hibernation systems at low usage mode"), and was set to venture to 100 AU distance to "survey deep extrasolar environment".

The craft was lost when it achieved "12x solar escape velocity 2.56 hours earlier than planned", which tells little of its acceleration capabilities but does indicate something more advanced than what NASA would have in the 2030s. However, the Okudagram gives a launch date of 07-23-2067 or possibly -2087...

Timo Saloniemi
 

Just like you need to accelerate to 11 km/s to break free from Earth's gravity (this is Earth's escape velocity), you need to travel at no less than 600 km/s to break free from Sol's gravity. Travel slower, and you can't leave the Sol system.

12 times solar escape velocity translates to 12*600 = 7200 km/s = (7200/300,000) = 0.024c. That is indeed a whole lot faster than what NASA spacecraft can achieve now (40,000 km/h = 11.1 km/s = 0.000037c).

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"Now for sale at your local dealer: Miranda class vessels, as good as new! Survived the Dominion Wars! Only 100 years old! Only 20,000 ly on the counter! Buy now for only $1000! And if you order now, you get an Oberth class for half the price!"


 

'DEV' might stand for 'Deep-space Exploration Vessel' (or 'Vehicle'). However, the DEV Eagle Valley was a colonization vessel, so that might be incorrect.
Perhaps it means 'Da Eagle Valley'?

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My guesses for VK in-jokes are "Voight-Kampf," the replicant-detecting machine in Blade Runner, and "Victor Kaminsky," one of the hibernating astronauts killed by HAL 9000. But these are just wild-ass guesses.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

Interesting to note that the TNGTM make reference to ASRVs being produced at a secondary facility on Velikan V.

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 

Classified as lost on 07 February 2038 with consumables runout; however, there was a 20% chance on crew survival if they would use their hibernation systems at low usage mode.

[This message has been edited by Alpha Centauri (edited June 28, 2000).]
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I'm guessing that the warp prototype and Phoenix are the same ships. In the second edition of the chronology Michael Okuda says that before the name and date of the first ship were establshed in First Contact they had put the date of the first flight in 2061. So unless there were some failed warp prototypes, 2061 and 2063 represent the same event.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Considering the general structure of the Phoenix, it would be no wonder if the forward crew cabin parachuted down while the rest of the test rig remained in orbit. Cochrane could then later launch a bigger crew cabin and dock it to the test rig, and gradually add other stuff like a meteoroid shield and extra fuel tanks. So step by step, the Phoenix of ST:FC fame would transform into the Phoenix as shown in the Chronology and in the tabletop model seen on Keiko's classroom table.

The ship would probalby be stored in the Smithsonian in its Chronology form, not in the FC shape.

Timo Saloniemi
 

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
 
The 'warp prototype' is not the same as the Phoenix. It is explicitely mentioned in the TNGTM that it was an unmanned test vehicle. If you want, I can even quote the line for you.

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Alpha C: That's interesting. I haven't read the TNG TM recently. Actually, it makes more sense that an unmanned probe was tested before Phoenix. First Contact seems to suggest that Phoenix was the first flight of any warp ship. By the way, what does the TNGTM say about the first manned flight? Since it was published long before "First Contact" and before "Phoenix" and the 2063 date were established, I'm wondering what it says.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
About this VK prefix.
It could be Russian. The V could be something sounding like Vehicle and the K could be like Kosmos.
Does anyone speak Russian in here?

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Not me, even though I live in the neighborhood. But I have the faint and fuzzy notion that the letters could be something like "bolshoi korabl", spelling be damned. V would equal B as usual in cyrillic translitterations, and "bolshoi korabl" would literally be "big ship" in pidgin Russian.

And the Russian navy does use expressions like "big SS-rocket ship" and "small ASW ship" instead of the less systematic western "frigate" and "destroyer" and "corvette" and whatnot.

However, I have very little faith that there is any connection with this twisted logic and the true origin of the VK prefix.

Timo Saloniemi

Addendum: After checking up on this, I think the B in "bolshoi" is almost never spelled as a V in western translitterations - while the B in "Mockba" is always spelled as a V (Moskva) and the one in "Sebactonoh" varies between B and V (Sebastopol or Sevastopol) depending on who's typing. So VK is unlikely to be "bolshoi korabl" after all.

[This message has been edited by Timo (edited July 03, 2000).]
 

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
 
Masao: The TNG:TM tactically avoids speaking of the first manned flight. After the text about the unmanned prototype, the next paragraph elaborates: "Early CDP engines, which were only informally dubbed "warp" engines, met with success, and were almost immediately incorporated into existing spacecraft designs". It goes on saying that Cochrane and his team eventually relocated to the Alpha Centauri colonies [INTERESTING: this suggests that there were already colonies established in the a Cen system. Maybe with sublight sleeper ships?], and that that move only took four years because of spacecraft equipped with early warp engines. If we take four years as exact travel time, one comes to an average velocity of 1.075c.

And here some info about the unmanned warp prototype, derived from the TNG:TM.