So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
Any chance of transatlanticizing the images?
And did the TWoK DVD have anything new in the sketch/design/general art department?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
The DVD didn't have any actual sketches, other than storyboards, just some discussion of the design processes.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Didn�t it have modelpics?
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
As in the Enterprise and Reliant models? Yes. Both in the Magazine and in the DVD.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
So tell us poor wrong-side-of-the-Atlantic schmucks (Europe ), any pics on the dvd that�s not in the magazine? and if so, any scans to post here?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid.
Posted by Prismatic Faye Valentine Fanboy (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid.
the rumer i heard was that they put it on Harve Bennett's desk, not Andy Probert's.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Prismatic Faye Valentine Fanboy:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid.
the rumer i heard was that they put it on Harve Bennett's desk, not Andy Probert's.
Anyway, I think it's not real. But feel free to show me I'm wrong.
(BTW, I know why they deactivated quote-in-quote-posts at the Trekbbs. )
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
The whole "upside down" sketch thing isn't a rumor. The production team had to mail everything to Harve Bennett since he was working on a project overseas. When he approved the design, he wrote his approval on the sketch upside down. The production team didn't know whether or not to send it back and get his approval again (which would take too much time), or just work with the upside-down sketch. Obviously, they did the latter. There are differences though... the "rollbar" was added later by Joe Jennings and Lee Cole. Originally, there were two separate torpedo pods below the nacelles.
Sorry about the less-than stellar quality... the original sketch was very faint and I don't have much time to clean it up right now. But it's better than nothing. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Upside down makes more sense, really, at least initially. Nacelles go up, after all, unless you are a Klingon. (Or the Aurora, but the less said about that the better.) At least, up till this point.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Cool, and very interesting. I like the upsidedown version quite a bit. It would make an interesting class itself....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Upside down makes more sense, really, at least initially. Nacelles go up, after all, unless you are a Klingon. (Or the Aurora, but the less said about that the better.) At least, up till this point.
To be fair, yout (we) are basing this on our experience at this point of ONE whole Starfleet vessel. Who decided what parts of the Enterprise were class specific, and which would symbolise a Starfleet vessel? obviously, they went for the saucer, but they dropped the secondary hull, which exists on almost all other SF ships.
The Romulan BOP also had nacelles going up.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Had the Reliant stayed that way, the Enterprise would look to be severely out-gunned as it appears Reliant would have 8 torp launchers. However, I don't see any phaser cannons in the sketches, so who knows if they would have been added anyway.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Thanks for the scan!
Seems they had the design pretty much nailed down at that stage, save for the nacelle orientation (and pylon shape). Sigh. I was actually hoping for something more distinct, something that could be used as a new standalone class from the TOS movie era. But this simple nacelle flip would make no sense as a separate class - it would be just another example of silly fanbody cut-and-pasting with no engineering justification whatsoever.
The torp pods make me wonder about the story logic of ST2. The Reliant was supposedly assisting in science ops. One would expect a rather lightly armed ship, then. OTOH, story logic would also dictate that the baddie outgun the Enterprise. And not just because he's got the drop on Kirk thanks to that nasty evil surprise attack; dramatically, Khan should constantly and graphically have the upper hand because underdogs can't be villains and top guns can't be heroes in a Hollywood movie.
That's a built-in problem in the story, and one the modelers couldn't readily solve. The idea to put the superior weaponry in a separate pod was a good compromise. An even better one IMHO would have been to give the Reliant a weapon type the Enterprise did not possess, and put *that* in the pod. Something with a distinct visual effect, something Khan would (falsely) think would give him the upper hand. Perhaps a "rocket pod", one that could let rip with hundreds of small projectiles?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Captain... Mike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Prismatic Faye Valentine Fanboy:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid.
the rumer i heard was that they put it on Harve Bennett's desk, not Andy Probert's.
Anyway, I think it's not real. But feel free to show me I'm wrong.
(BTW, I know why they deactivated quote-in-quote-posts at the Trekbbs. )
Let's see if we can push this enough to make them disable something here!
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
quote: Originally posted by Dat: Had the Reliant stayed that way, the Enterprise would look to be severely out-gunned as it appears Reliant would have 8 torp launchers.
What makes this really funny is the article goes on to say that the Reliant was supposed to be a lightly armed ship, "like a buoy tender." If eight torpedo tubes is lightly armed, I shudder to think what a battlewagon would be carrying!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's if those torpedo pods are in fact torpedo pods. For all we know, had the Reliant been specifically designed as a buoy tender, those could be limited probe launch and retrieval doohickeys.
Mark
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain... Mike:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Prismatic Faye Valentine Fanboy:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant...
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid.
the rumer i heard was that they put it on Harve Bennett's desk, not Andy Probert's.
Anyway, I think it's not real. But feel free to show me I'm wrong.
(BTW, I know why they deactivated quote-in-quote-posts at the Trekbbs. )
Let's see if we can push this enough to make them disable something here!
I think it'll be better to change our names and hide for some time then. Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Regarding the Reliant design, it always bothered me that Enterprise refit type nacelles were just stuck to the bottom of the pylons without any real changes to their shape. On the Enterprise there's that rather obvious structure that the pylons stick into. There should have been an analogous structure on the top of the Reliant nacelles...or they could have been kept the same but turned upside-down so they'd "mate" with the pylons.
Oh well, model-makers... Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: Regarding the Reliant design, it always bothered me that Enterprise refit type nacelles were just stuck to the bottom of the pylons without any real changes to their shape. On the Enterprise there's that rather obvious structure that the pylons stick into. There should have been an analogous structure on the top of the Reliant nacelles...or they could have been kept the same but turned upside-down so they'd "mate" with the pylons.
Oh well, model-makers...
Something the guys who created the DS9 kitbashes did right. You can say what you want about our beloved Medusas and Raging Queens, but the Constitution kitbash did it right.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Wow. So we have to thank Harve Bennett for "inventing" a cool design variant by just turning nacelles upside down.
I wish that, in this respect, I could say something similar about Berman and Braga...
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bernd: Wow. So we have to thank Harve Bennett for "inventing" a cool design variant by just turning nacelles upside down.
I wish that, in this respect, I could say something similar about Berman and Braga...
You can. They turned the Akira upside down and we got NX01. Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
except for the fact that NX-01 isn't cool.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Yup. (They knew why the promo shots only showed the vessel from above and no side views)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Bitter, bitter people.
Posted by Colorful Cartman (Member # 256) on :
quote:(Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov): {
quote:(Originally posted by Captain... Mike): {
quote:(Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov): {
quote:(Originally posted by Prismatic Faye Valentine Fanboy): {
quote:(Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov): {
quote:(Originally posted by Timo): { So I hear the new ST:Magazine has a selection of the early, "upside down" sketches of the Reliant... }
I thought that was just a rumor, the whole 'they but the image on Probert's desk and he looked at them upside down and liked it' just sounds too stupid. }
the rumer i heard was that they put it on Harve Bennett's desk, not Andy Probert's. }
Anyway, I think it's not real. But feel free to show me I'm wrong.
(BTW, I know why they deactivated quote-in-quote-posts at the Trekbbs. )
Let's see if we can push this enough to make them disable something here! }
I think it'll be better to change our names and hide for some time then. }
This reminds me of a nested while-loop. Man, what a crime to debug those suckers.
I like that upside-down variant... for some reason, I find skyward-facing nacelles much more aesthetically pleasing.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
*Charles Capps* The quotes stop. Now.
I dunno about the early design. I do quite like the Miranda-class. It reminds me of a sledge.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
what's a sledge? a sled? in that case, i agree with you. i think that the miranda class is a very well thought out design. in many ways, better than the constitution class.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Better than the Constitution class? Nothing is more beautiful than that ship, not even the newer ships of today. Though I do have to say that the Miranda class is sort of beauitful in her own way.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
), any pics on the dvd that�s not in the magazine? and if so, any scans to post here?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)