Ok, let�s talk. Valdore - BoP anyone? At least it looks like one from this angle
Argo, cool or totally unnecessary?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The *shuttle* Argo is cool. It even looks like it could work (!).
Yet another spacedock frame. At least this makes a bit more sense, since the Sovereign probably wouldn't fit in the other ones because of it's length. I think.
I don't know about that Valdore thing. It looks a wee bit too much like a "Dominion BoP".
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Dominion "BoP"? I thought it looked just like a klingon BoP, remember the shot from one of the movies, I forget which. It was just this angle, and it looks surprisingly similar.
As for the Argo, yeah, sure, it looks quite nice, but I would so much have prefered the sfx-guys to focus their budget on new Federation starships instead.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Valdore = BoP to some degree, which isn't a bad thing as long as we accept that Klingons and Romulans share ship design preferences. What are those big wings for, though? This ship can't be atmospheric-capable. A curving wing sounds like a silly way to mount a nacelle, especially if the wing is so broad.
Argo is stooopid but necessary, if we assume that the only other available shuttle type is the Insurrection one. That shuttle didn't have a big enough door to be practical for personnel transport, let alone the moving of even small equipment. Worse, though, Argo is butt-ugly.
No impulse glow whatsoever in the rear view of the Argo. An odd omission.
I fully understand that Earth orbit could be littered with dockyards and no two would be within visual range of each other... But it would still have been nice to see several starships being processed and not just the E-E.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Did you notice the first shot of the Scimitar decloaking over Romulus? The ship looked nothing like in the first trailer (basically a Dominion cruiser there). This time it looks much wider, and the wings are relatively short.
Besides that, I think the Valdore(s) aren't as big as we thought.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
A bit smaller.....
[ September 19, 2002, 16:38: Message edited by: Ritten ]
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
The Valdore is the one I thought was a Vor`cha... it's too blurry now, but on TV it looked like it had a forked nose.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Lay (non-trek) people will be going "Is that a Klingon ship... where are the Klingons!?!"
andrew
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
thats a lot of the saucer ripped up.. are they going to fix that at the end?
this adds some salt to the 'they fixed the Ahwahnee' argument, if ships that badly damaged can be put back into service.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Actually... none of the Enterprise's saucer is ripped up in that picture. The dark wedges are pieces of the hull of the other ship being pushed up by the Enterprise. However, I would imagine that the Ent. sustains a fair amount of damage from this manuever.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
What was the book Picard rammed a Warbird in??? I know, I know, a book, bu they seem to be using that here.....
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
Not just a book, I think it was a Shatner book. The Return?
*dumps more salt into the thread*
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
It was the Reeves-Stevens' Federation.
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
Yes, it was 'Federation'... The book suggests that by turning the SIF up to maximum, the hull takes on the rigidity of a neutron-star, so it can pretty much smash through anything with little damage.
Totally non-canon and implausible, of course.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
*shrug* The order to ram the Borg (or rather, to prepare to ram) was given in both BOBW and ST8, and we also saw Dominion ships ramming Klingon ships, so its not exactly an unprecedented tactic.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Janeway also rammed the Krenim timeship, but then again, Voyager was beat to hell at that point and probably didn't have much of an SIF left. Thus the primary hull crumpled like a new car.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
The most stupid canon example of ramming would have to be in "Caretaker". I really don't think that piss-ant Maquis raider, with shields down (since they transported Chakotay out), should have done so much damage to the Kazon carrier.
As for the Valdore, I'm honestly sick of the complaints. It doesn't look any more like a Klingon ship than the Klingon BoP looks like a Romulan ship. It's pretty obvious the Romulans and Klingons have similar ship designs, so get over it, people.
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
As for the wings, in the scene just before the screen cap you can see that they glow white throughout most of their length. Impuls engines?
BTW: The upload links don't seem to be working...
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
How to make the Valdore varient of the D'Deridex:
1. Remove the bottom section of the "wing", along with the second interconnecting spar and the aft vertical connection.
2. Refit the "head" with the new configuration.
3. Install new nacelles and weapons systerms.
This makes the "new" warbird roughly the same length and width as the original, roughly 2x the length of a Galaxy class, and about the same in height (roughly 2x). A Galaxy class is 42 decks. At roughly 2x height (maybe a bit more), from the bottom of the "beak" to the top of whatever stuff has been added on top of the "wing" it isn't too much of a stretch as being 115 decks.
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
I'll say it YET again...
The 115 decks quote refers to the original D'Deridex.
Read the Romulan Technology part of the official Nemesis webpage.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Why do I have the feeling that this movie was made to either continue the TNG movies or kill it?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh, because, rhetoric aside, those are the only two possibilities? Either there will be another film or there won't.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Okay. My first impression of the Valdore was:
1) It's neither original nor immediately recognizable as Romulan.
2) It's ridiculously thin for its enormous wingspan.
But regarding the common Klingon-Romulan design lineage, couldn't this be exactly the silly �ber-BoP we have seen in "The Defector"?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Re: Kazon SMASH!
Note that by this time, Starfleet seems to have gotten the knack of beaming through their own shields, or shields friendly vessels. Caretaker is one example of this - they beam to and from the array without any dialogue to explain why, and numerous times during the series they beam to and from unshielded or friendly targets.
Blame O'Brien. Sternbach said he figured it out.
Mark
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bernd: Okay. My first impression of the Valdore was:
1) It's neither original nor immediately recognizable as Romulan.
I agree that the design's not that original but it is distinctly Romulan IMO. If anything, it looks more Romulan than anything else.
quote:2) It's ridiculously thin for its enormous wingspan.
I agree. The Valdore would have to have one hell of a SIF.
quote:But regarding the common Klingon-Romulan design lineage, couldn't this be exactly the silly �ber-BoP we have seen in "The Defector"?
I'm not sure how serious you're being here, but the Valdore does seem like a deliberate attempt to cross the D'deridex with the KBoP (and maybe even the D7 a little).
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the KBoP was originally a Romulan design. The Klingons might of got their hands on the BoP in the same way the Romulans got the D7. In fact, for all we know, the Romulans could well have also been using the KBoP design during the late 23rd and early 24th century.
Mark: Seems like a resonable explanation but it would of been nice if they mentioned something in dialogue.
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1: How to make the Valdore varient of the D'Deridex:
1. Remove the bottom section of the "wing", along with the second interconnecting spar and the aft vertical connection.
2. Refit the "head" with the new configuration.
3. Install new nacelles and weapons systerms.
You might find my doodle interesting. I made this when we first got the Valdore pic, I know it's rough, but like I say, it's a doodle.
PS. Yes, I need to find something to do with my time.
Posted by iam2xtreme (Member # 836) on :
I actually like that. It makes the design lineage thing kind of make sense.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
That's a "rough" doodle? Phloxy, I pity any future children you might have the day they bring back finger-painted pictures to go on the refrigerator! "No, nowhere near good enough! Go back, do it again!"
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: That's a "rough" doodle? Phloxy, I pity any future children you might have the day they bring back finger-painted pictures to go on the refrigerator! "No, nowhere near good enough! Go back, do it again!"
LOL. Well I didn't want to make it sound like I'd spent weeks on it. Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
As an idea for an "alternate" means of travel, slipstream is probably more novel, but as it is presented, its a tad lacking.
I personally prefer Stargate travel, with all its forms, and strange permutations Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
^ The what now?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ramming another ship is not unprecidented, but definitely suicidal. Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
What then? The Ent E is not going to be completely destroyed or is it?
Is that what they meant by "A Generation's final journey" as opposed to Nemesis being just the last of the TNG films?
And why give Riker a new ship at the end if they don't intend to show any more of him or the others??
At least TUC had the nice ending with the crew being decommissioned. Seems a much better way to give a sense of closure to an important chapter.
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Austin Powers: And why give Riker a new ship at the end if they don't intend to show any more of him or the others??
did you expect them to promote him and not give him a ship, because it would be the last movie.
Trek has always tried to maintain a little tad bit of real life in it, in that a half dozen people of different ages just wouldnt retire all at the same time.
\theyre giving him a ship precisely as a reason of closure.. all the TNG kids arent a family anymore, they are moving on.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I did not expect them to promote him at all. Why should they anyway?
And did they give every member of the TOS crew a starship after they made them captain? No. Only Sulu got the Excelsior.
Perhaps I just don't like the idea that this will be the last TNG movie. TNG only had 3 1/2. TOS had 6 1/2. I count Generations for both sides for obvious reasons.
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
well i count Generation s as a TNG movie with a TOS portion, especially since TUC was definitively the end of TOS.
and i didnt expect this to be the last movie either, but they are billing it as that. probably this is the last movie that will feature the TNG cast in its entirety, any future movie venture will probably have a different theme (crossovers, new characters, anything's possible).
and yes, i completely expected Riker to be promoted. why wouldn't he? he's been ready to be a captain for a while hes just been chilling because his family is on the Enterprise.
i think that the SPOILER event is going to be the reason the crew splits up at the end.. without a couple of the cast being there, everyone else kinda takes it as a cue to move on with their lives, since Worf already left, Riker and Troi are moving on, and then BAM this other thing happens and it kind of ruins the crew dynamic. its not the end of the Enterprise, its just the last voyage together becuase an integral part of TNG will be lost at the end.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Mike - I'm going to get 'yelled' at but - I consider that a semi-spoiler. Seeing as you are revealing something that will happen,
1. at the end of the movie that impacts well after the movie
2. That it is 'TNG cast' altering
3. That it means 'moving on'
4. It's not the Enterprise.
5. That - well it lends creedence to a number of rumours out there - that before-hand you could just ignore... This is like the ticket to confirm various possible spoilers. Grr.
Oh well.
And YES I know the post has the Spoiler signs on it - but the rest of the thread didn't really have PLOT spoilers in it.
Apologies if I read Cap'n post wrong and it was just his supposition.
Andrew
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
Spoilers in a marked thread are pretty much to be expected - no?
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
the thread says Spoiler$$$ at the top..
seeing as its a tech thread i didnt say what actually happens... screw off if you are reading spoiler threads not expecting to see spoilers
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Spoilers are one of the reasons I'm here. Can't get enough of them.
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
i started a new thread then for you guys in General Trek. it should explain everything nicely
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Of course, this "final journey" stuff would appear to be the creation of the Paramount promotional department, and has at least a few otherwise connected people fairly mystified.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Or it's another clever marketing stunt. As soon as you start thinking "Oh no, there won't be another one - let's at least see this one over and over again!" your sure to make TPTB very happy. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
*sigh* Mike...
from my post:
"And YES I know the post has the Spoiler signs on it - but the rest of the thread didn't really have PLOT spoilers in it."
There are spoilers and then there are SPOILERS. This thread was about being spoiled about the starships in Nemesis - it says NOTHING about plot-lines.
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
Andrew,
Stop splitting hairs...a spoiler warning is a spoiler warning. You have been here longer than me...you know how threads have a tendency to jump off of the tracks...
Later! Art
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
If it says "spoilers" or "$$$$", and you click it expecting spoilers on ONE thing and not another, you deserve what you get.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Austin Powers: I did not expect them to promote him at all. Why should they anyway?
And did they give every member of the TOS crew a starship after they made them captain? No. Only Sulu got the Excelsior.
Perhaps I just don't like the idea that this will be the last TNG movie. TNG only had 3 1/2. TOS had 6 1/2. I count Generations for both sides for obvious reasons.
Enterprise A was the most "top-heavy" ship in the feet as far as command goes! If you served on the "A", you'd have to be a repair technician to ever see duty on the bridge.
Ever think folks snickered behind Checkov's back at the fact that he was still navagating (or whatever) as a commander, while that task falls to ensigns on other starships?
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
can i say in my defence that, since i recognized that this was a Tech Spoiler thread, that i withheld specifics but simply said that i knew of a Plot Spoiler that could explain what we were discussing?
my vague sentence said only that there was a spoiler event.. anything else you surmised from that is your own damn imagination.
play with $$$ and get burned. life lessons.
besides, the promotions department explanation for this 'final' bullshite could just be that the crew is splitting up because riker's going to his own ship... thereby splitting up the crew and making this their 'final voyage'.
BTW, anyone read the Reeves-Stevens' stuff about Chekov worknig up to C-in-C of Starfleet in the early 23rd century? last laugh stuff, right there
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ok enough about spoilers (just that maybe if something has the potential to be a bigger spoiler than the topic alludes to - maybe a few extra lines warning?
I need spoiler space for my brain!
What's that about Chekov-in-Charge? And don't you mean the early 24th century?
Chekov-in-Charge - a Charles-in-Charge remake for the 24th Century!
Andrew
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
Production sketches of the Valdore and Scimitar have been posted at startrek.com;
Nice one Phloxy! Hmm, might have to change my signature. . .
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Enterprise A was the most "top-heavy" ship in the feet as far as command goes!
Actually, she was probably the closest to being realistic. The vessel in the U.S. Navy that comes closest to the level of importance of the E-A is the aircraft carrier. On a carrier, the CO, the XO, the chief medical officer, the chief engineer, and the commander of the air group are all usually of O-6 (captain) rank. This is one reason why I thought Riker shouldn't have been demoted back to commander after the end of BOBW. BTW, I always thought it was interesting that of the three captains aboard the E-A, Kirk was lowest in terms of seniority, and yet he was the skipper of the ship.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
that Reman phaser sure is ugly.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Enterprise A was the most "top-heavy" ship in the feet as far as command goes!
Actually, she was probably the closest to being realistic. The vessel in the U.S. Navy that comes closest to the level of importance of the E-A is the aircraft carrier. On a carrier, the CO, the XO, the chief medical officer, the chief engineer, and the commander of the air group are all usually of O-6 (captain) rank. This is one reason why I thought Riker shouldn't have been demoted back to commander after the end of BOBW. BTW, I always thought it was interesting that of the three captains aboard the E-A, Kirk was lowest in terms of seniority, and yet he was the skipper of the ship.
the rank system doesn't seem to work quite the same in star trek as it does in the US Navy. if one is in the command division, one gets a command of some sort at captain (or before). i don't think that 2 command captains (regardless of seniority differences) would be allowed to serve on the same crew. one can get a command before the rank of captain, but a captain always gets a command (whether it be a space station or starship). that's my interpretation.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The Romulan Rifle was always a Romulan rifle; I believe it was first seen as such in "The Die Is Cast". Quark et. al. use them in "The Magnificent Ferengi" some years later - I had figured that they merely purchased some surplus/contraband Romulan weaponry. The pistol Quark is often seen using is also not Ferengi, but originally seen as a Vulcan phaser in "The Maquis" (I think). I don't believe the funky Ferengi phaser from TNG was ever seen on DS9...
Mark
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
^ Hmm, didn't know that. I only remember the Romulan one that was similar to the pistol.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by EdipisReks:
quote:Originally posted by Woodside Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Enterprise A was the most "top-heavy" ship in the feet as far as command goes!
Actually, she was probably the closest to being realistic. The vessel in the U.S. Navy that comes closest to the level of importance of the E-A is the aircraft carrier. On a carrier, the CO, the XO, the chief medical officer, the chief engineer, and the commander of the air group are all usually of O-6 (captain) rank. This is one reason why I thought Riker shouldn't have been demoted back to commander after the end of BOBW. BTW, I always thought it was interesting that of the three captains aboard the E-A, Kirk was lowest in terms of seniority, and yet he was the skipper of the ship.
the rank system doesn't seem to work quite the same in star trek as it does in the US Navy. if one is in the command division, one gets a command of some sort at captain (or before). i don't think that 2 command captains (regardless of seniority differences) would be allowed to serve on the same crew. one can get a command before the rank of captain, but a captain always gets a command (whether it be a space station or starship). that's my interpretation.
There seems to be only one captain allowed per vessel, but there may be several commanders on a Galaxy class starship (mabye one per division: science, astrometrics, etc.) with all commanders accountable to the First Officer. ....also, Lt. Commanders often have their rank shortened to "commander" for ease of speach (like when dressing down Worf).
My take on it: Department heads (possibly some commanders)report directly to the First Officer or XO The First Officer reports to the Captain. The Captain reports to the Admariialty (with alot of leeway) Admarilty reports to either a Joint Chiefs or President The President is answerable to the Federation Council
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
very observant.
also, an aircraft carrier has a complement several times that of the 1701-A.. the more people you have aboard, the higher thae rank of the person in charge. smaller ships might be commanded by lieutenants or commanders, but captains command most starfleet vessels. id think only ships with galaxy sizes would have more than one captain as part of the standard complement. obviously the 1701-A was a special case.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Notice the "Phaser Pistol" sign... seems like they got a bit confused with Enterprise.. they used to be called just "Phasers" or "Hand Phasers" Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
On the other hand, before there were "hand phasers" there were "phaser pistols," so it could have just been the fault of someone who doesn't watch Enterprise (not that I can blame them). And besides the present phaser is now so curvy it's virtually a pistol anyway.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Well I didn't want to make it sound like I'd spent weeks on it. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)