I'm actually quite proud of this one! Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Sweet merciful *!@!! !
That's brilliant! How long did it take you to do THAT!?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Ow, and one nitpick
The font on the nacelle is very wrong. It's that annoying SFTM font. You should use AmarilloUSAF, or even better, Captain Mike's Fleet Old School.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
true dat..
the eurostile-ish TM font that Franz Joseph used is probably only appropo on ships that were painted after 2265 ad before 2272.. since we know that the 1701 was painted in the Fleet Old School that ad been used since ENT and that after TMP they started using SF bold and SF bold Ext.. (this makes the FJ prints technically right for his ship.. if they were detailed in the years after Kirks FYM began but before TMP there is nothing to disprove thats the font the fleet used)
however, using that font for the border does look doable...
i really like the perspective and he gradations on the ship too.. pretty nifty
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Still: awesome!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: That's brilliant! How long did it take you to do THAT!?
The Ortho took me about five hours solid, the rest about an hour and a half. Some of it was "off the shelf" stuff though. (that moon for example is Mimas not Luna)
I used "MicrogrammaDMedExt" on purpose since that's what FJ used on his blueprints, sincee this is after all the Constitution and not the Enterprise. But if you really want to get into a debate about cannon then remember that this is also just a logo and would have been drafted before "The Big C" was completed, so it wouldn't necessarily reflect the exact appearance of the actual NCC-1700.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
True.
But somehow that font always leaves me with the bad taste of fandom's creme de la crap schematics.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Very kewel!
You give any thought to having these made up as actual patches? Wish I was still in Korea, 'cause I could take stuff like this downtown and have several dozen done up for cheap, man.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It rocks, Rev! One thing though: should'nt the depicted version be of the "pilot version" with the antenna things sticking out from the bussard collectors?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: True.
But somehow that font always leaves me with the bad taste of fandom's creme de la crap schematics.
Well you know just how much attention I pay to the old fandom stuff, so in this case ignorance is bliss.
quote: Very kewel!
You give any thought to having these made up as actual patches? Wish I was still in Korea, 'cause I could take stuff like this downtown and have several dozen done up for cheap, man.
There is a website that makes up this kind of thing (usually mugs and t-shirts) for anyone who wants it, although personally I wouldn't be interested in owning one, although I'm sure others would.
quote: It rocks, Rev! One thing though: should'nt the depicted version be of the "pilot version" with the antenna things sticking out from the bussard collectors?
Once more - it's the Constitution, not the Enterprise and the Constitution's blueprints didn't include Bussard spikes.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend:
Once more - it's the Constitution, not the Enterprise and the Constitution's blueprints didn't include Bussard spikes. [/QB]
I thought all Connies of that era would have the bussard spikes and that the series version of the Enterprise was just the first of many refits. You think the Enterprise was the only ship with this feature? Even the Deadalus has the spikes. Possible I guess....look at the Venture. Still...the blueprints were made after the show ended and may not be correct (there are dozens of bad blueprints out there). Does the blueprint you have use the nacelle vent end caps or the series version.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
That is truly beautiful, Rev.
How 'bout a nice Connie or two to go with it? (BTW did I ever get these to you? These may be a bit better than the ones I initially sent.)
Jason: Personally, I've never really bought the fandom view that FJ's prints represent a "fifth-year" refit of the design. I've always thought of them as showing the original configuration of the prototype, and the other versions (see here) came later. (Or were also contemporaries. Wet navies today ofen have variations in design among the initial batches of vessel classes built, IIRC.)
-MMoM Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
That's great, Rev. I'm actually working on a Connie article for the Starfleet Museum and need to make a Connie development patch.
A few nits: 1. I agree that you should have the pilot version. The notion that Constitution herself would have no spikes and the new bridge 20 years before Enterprise doesn't make sense. 2. The lower disc mound looks a bit funky, especially at the left. You also have that bright underside of the disc edge over there contrasting with the very dark mound. The bright part of the mound also disappears against the front edge of the disc. 3. Should a development patch be hexagonal? 4. The most important text ("Connie class development project") is the smallest on the patch. Did you try spreading that across the top three sides?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Damn good!!
One little thing that really applies to all of these development patches; if they're supposed to be a development project, how come they have a picture of the final design on? Surely development project means the design is still being developed?
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Damn good!!
One little thing that really applies to all of these development patches; if they're supposed to be a development project, how come they have a picture of the final design on? Surely development project means the design is still being developed?
Perhaps they are designed afterwards, so the designers can sew it to their jackets in a kind of "look at me - I designed the Constitution's toilets" type gesture. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: Perhaps they are designed afterwards, so the designers can sew it to their jackets in a kind of "look at me - I designed the Constitution's toilets" type gesture. [/QB]
I designed the Constitution's toilet and all I got was this lousy patch.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
When I saw the title to your latest project, I thought you might have done a patch with the US Navy ship U.S.S. Constitution. As I wandered my eye over the patch, I was disappointed. I think, in my opinion, that a patch with this very famous ship would be far more interesting than yet another picture of a Connie with a planetary background.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
But these are Sci-Fi Forums, and not Navy forums. Or am I missing something?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Screamin' funny!
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
quote:Perhaps they are designed afterwards, so the designers can sew it to their jackets in a kind of "look at me - I designed the Constitution's toilets" type gesture.
Uh, there is no canon reference source stating that the Constitution Class in fact had toilets, nor were they shown on screen. Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman:
quote:Perhaps they are designed afterwards, so the designers can sew it to their jackets in a kind of "look at me - I designed the Constitution's toilets" type gesture.
Uh, there is no canon reference source stating that the Constitution Class in fact had toilets, nor were they shown on screen.
Crew members eat and drink. That's enought canon reference for me. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So Spock's little viewer looks into the ship's septic tank?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: Crew members eat and drink. That's enought canon reference for me.
except that it has been canonically established that they actually go where no man has gone before
whew.. i gotta be careful handling that joke, its an antique
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by newark: When I saw the title to your latest project, I thought you might have done a patch with the US Navy ship U.S.S. Constitution. As I wandered my eye over the patch, I was disappointed. I think, in my opinion, that a patch with this very famous ship would be far more interesting than yet another picture of a Connie with a planetary background.
Not sure why you're so disappointed and can't at least congratulate the work done. I've not exactly seen a plethora of "Connie" patches before. My only "disappointment" is that it's not of what *I* consider to be the original configuration for the class (as seen in "The Cage"), but that's minor compared to acknowledging the effort that went in to the patch......
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: That's great, Rev. I'm actually working on a Connie article for the Starfleet Museum and need to make a Connie development patch.
What luck!
quote: A few nits: 1. I agree that you should have the pilot version. The notion that Constitution herself would have no spikes and the new bridge 20 years before Enterprise doesn't make sense.
As I said earlier, it's just a pach that was probably based off of the final computer model schematics before NCC-1700 was constructed so it would not exactly represent the appearance of the final configuration of the U.S.S. Constitution.
In theory of course the Constitution could have had the different bridge module and bussard spikes, but those are minor design variations that might not have manifested themselves until the prototype was nearing completion. Plus I think the spikes look a little unsightly.
quote: 2. The lower disc mound looks a bit funky, especially at the left. You also have that bright underside of the disc edge over there contrasting with the very dark mound. The bright part of the mound also disappears against the front edge of the disc.
I think that I've now corrected all of those points.
quote: 3. Should a development patch be hexagonal?
Beats me, we have no precident to go by. The only cannon development logo is the Galaxy's and that was triangular. I don't think it really matters much, at least not in the TOS era.
quote: 4. The most important text ("Connie class development project") is the smallest on the patch. Did you try spreading that across the top three sides?
Yeah I did, it looks unbalanced and not very tidy.
UPDATE
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Now we need one for the Intrepid Class Emergancy Holographic Toilet Seat.
"Please state the nature of the sanitary emergancy... Oh no! NO! NOT THE KLINGON AGAIN! NOOOOOOOOOOO!"
BTW all these patches are very cool. Ya'll do great work. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Would you use yellow toilet paper in a public bathroom? I hope not. Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Nay, the question is, would you use any toilet paper at all, when you have fancy-smancy sonic resonance seats to massage & clean your butt?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It's for people who don't know how to use the three sea shells. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Double your posts, Double your fun.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
LOL! He doesn't know how to use the shells... Hehe... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartmaniac: Nay, the question is, would you use any toilet paper at all, when you have fancy-smancy sonic resonance seats to massage & clean your butt?
Hmmm....a sonic bidet that tosses your salad while it mixes your nuts? I'll pass.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Hey, why not just get a toilet from Japan that also plays soothing music while you go?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Just turn your faucet to drip and you'll get the same effect without all that cash blown down the toilet (literally!).
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
(sigh)
Ya'll just don't get it.
Toilets. Are. Not. Canon.
There is no proof on screen that the ship had toilets so they DON'T EXIST!
Posted by Captain39 (Member # 1001) on :
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman: (sigh)
Ya'll just don't get it.
Toilets. Are. Not. Canon.
There is no proof on screen that the ship had toilets so they DON'T EXIST!
Actually if you watch ST:TFF when Kirk is in the brig and says he needs to sit down he pushes a button from which a seat-type object emerges from the wall. But if I remember right, it seems to have a lid hinting that it is a toilet.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
STV was a toilet so there is your "canon" reference. Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain39:
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman: (sigh)
Ya'll just don't get it.
Toilets. Are. Not. Canon.
There is no proof on screen that the ship had toilets so they DON'T EXIST!
Actually if you watch ST:TFF when Kirk is in the brig and says he needs to sit down he pushes a button from which a seat-type object emerges from the wall. But if I remember right, it seems to have a lid hinting that it is a toilet.
And the label behind the toilet reads "Do not use in spacedock". Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Here's the emblem of the real Constitution, courtesy of the USN I'm going to use this as a basis for my emblem.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I had all the spare parts sat on my shelf so I thought I might as well put them together and see how it looks
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Having the ship with the nose down makes it look like it's crashing or like a big fish being hung by its tail on the dock side.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I have to agree that it just doesn't look right w/the ship "nosed down" like that. I think it would look much better w/the images turned around 180 degrees and the text then altered to fit. Well, I mean the "To Boldy Go..." portion of the text, that is.
Otherwise, I like! But then, I'm a bit of a whore for good art work. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I've heard it was closer to $3.50 on the street. Cool patch. Nedds nacelle spikes though. Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: STV was a toilet so there is your "canon" reference.
No, that was just a load of shit. There is a difference. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Captain39:
quote:Originally posted by Styrofoaman: (sigh)
Ya'll just don't get it.
Toilets. Are. Not. Canon.
There is no proof on screen that the ship had toilets so they DON'T EXIST!
Actually if you watch ST:TFF when Kirk is in the brig and says he needs to sit down he pushes a button from which a seat-type object emerges from the wall. But if I remember right, it seems to have a lid hinting that it is a toilet.
And the label behind the toilet reads "Do not use in spacedock".
THANKYOU!! I've worked out the reason for Rand's expression as the Enterprise enters Space Dock in ST:III!!!!!! Someone's using the Brig toilet in space-dock - and if you notice there is a portal-window right near the brig!! She's dismayed that there is someone on the crapper right near the lounge!! Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Or mabye she's re-living a simular personal experience...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Heh, a cut scene from "Charlie X" Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If you lot are quite finished discussing Ms Rand's bowel movements.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Oooh! I like!
What program do you use again?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I like it! ...the red piece cut from the pie chart in the background must represent the number of redshirts projected to be killed during the 5 year mission. Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
This patch is getting pretty type-heavy. If this patch commemorates Kirk's 5-year mission, you can probably leave off "San Francisco" and "Constitution class" (even if you leave on "Calif" isn"t needed or could be shortened to "CA"). Also, perhapsthe mission info could be more prominent, maybe by reducing the detail on the schematic and putting the type over the ship? Because Fed cruisers have such such long nacelles, you might consider enlarging the schematic and cropping of the ends of the nacelles.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What about just leaving out the San Fran and Calif bits - unless it's a 5 year mission to San Francisco!
And maybe just have 2265-2270.
Hangon - shouldn't it be 2266
66, 67, 68, 69, 70.
I guess it depends on WHEN in 65 or 66 it commenceed. Maybe the stardate was for how long into the 5 year mission they were?
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Masao: (even if you leave on "Calif" isn"t needed or could be shortened to "CA")
No it couldn't - those abreviations are for US states, which California isn't at the time of TOS. You can't have two-letter abbreviations for every region on Earth, and in the unlikely event that you could there is no reason to believe California is CA.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Like the internet domain for Canada is .ca isn't it?
Or is it Cameroon!?! Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Like the internet domain for Canada is .ca isn't it?
Or is it Cameroon!?!
It's Canada.
Cameroon is CM. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i am not..
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
The best choice is to leave off the state. You'd think that everyone would know where San Francisco is.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Andrew -- the stardates were originally supposed to be months and days into the mission, but that unfortunately got scrubbed fairly early due to airing order being out of sync with stardate order. So Gene concocted some half-assed attempt to rationalize that it was variable dependant on the ship's positionin the galaxy, local temporal distortions, and crap like that.
It also means that if one goes in stardate order, the animated episode "The Magicks of Megas-Tu" predates "Where No Man Has Gone Before". *chuckle* However, it also has Chekov appear on the bridge prior to "Space Seed"...
--Jonah
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Apart from the uniform problem - I don't mind that Magicks comes before WNMHGB. The Chekov thing would make Kahn's comments more in-line.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
For 'Space Seed' to make sense, Chekov need not have been assigned to bridge duty at the time. He could've been elsewhere on the ship and have interfered with Khan at some point we didn't see and that's why Khan 'remembers' him.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So, what are the big problems of using stardate order? For TOS alone, there are some oddities and minor overlap, but IIRC no continuity boo-boos. Mixing with TAS, we have to deal with the now-you-see-em, now-you-don't Chekov, Rand, Arex and M'Ress, but we could always plead "night shift". Nobody ever said Chekov or Rand left the ship, really.
Is there anything blatant, like Spock and McCoy openly discussing Pon Farr before the stardate of "Amok Time"?
Using stardates on the patch would IMHO be a nice touch of scifi on an otherwise real-worldish item. It's small things like this that make for good scifi universes.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So what do you think of the idea - of just leaving the Date? And no calif etc. More a mission patch than a mission AND commencement patch.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
There are some basic problems in mixing TAS and TOS.. TAS had different uniforms, different consoles and some new gizmos like personal forcefields (which I'd like to explain away as being purely experimental, i.e. 'field-testing' the technology. And somehow, it was never implemented fleet-wide).
I'd rather just keep TAS Season One and Season Two (which was only 6 episodes or so) as depicting the last year of the mission. Ordered by production date, like TOS should be.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: For 'Space Seed' to make sense, Chekov need not have been assigned to bridge duty at the time. He could've been elsewhere on the ship and have interfered with Khan at some point we didn't see and that's why Khan 'remembers' him.
Checkov just would'nt get OUT of the public bathroom and Kahn really had to go....! It's enough to make you want to put a worm into someone's brain. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: For TOS alone, there are some oddities and minor overlap, but IIRC no continuity boo-boos.
I'm not sure if you'd count this as a continuity problem or just a minor overlap, but if stardates are at all accurate in TOS then we do have an instance of an episode taking place in the middle of Kirk and company's weeklong quarantine in "Miri." I don't recall which, off the top of my head.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
"Dagger of the Mind".
Yes, TAS muddies things a bit, with most episodes scattered throughout the series, one big block of them crammed in between "Day of the Dove" and "The Tholian Web", and only four being tacked on at the end. And I have a problem with those four, too. Without them, "All Our Yesterdays" is pegged at stardate 5943.7 -- or just about halfway through the last month of the last year of the five-year mission, if that scheme is used. "How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth", "The Pirates of Orion", "The Counter-Clock Incident", and "Bem" all take place well after, with "Bem" ocurring at stardate 7403.6...
And a final thought... If "Charlie X" takes place fifteen and one-third months into the Enterprise's mission, and that's Thanksgiving, then the mission started (either with Kirk taking command or with the ship leaving dock) around mid-August of the previous year.
--Jonah
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Hey! Why the heck do these art threads always veer off into tech discussions???? To get back on track, I'm posting my variation of Rev's Connie development patch. Since all the other development patches in the Starfleet Museum are triangular, I hope, Rev, that you could modify your patch to something like this for me. Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
In case anyone's wondering about Rev's silence the past coupla days, he just mentioned in an email that his ISP is currently blocked from the Forums. Presumably CC is sorting it out.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'm gone for just under a week and you smurfs start a tech disscussion in an art & creativity thread...well at least you've seam to have lost interest in 23rd century bogs.
Any, here's a triangle with knobs on but no damn spikes!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Masao: This patch is getting pretty type-heavy. If this patch commemorates Kirk's 5-year mission, you can probably leave off "San Francisco" and "Constitution class" (even if you leave on "Calif" isn"t needed or could be shortened to "CA"). Also, perhapsthe mission info could be more prominent, maybe by reducing the detail on the schematic and putting the type over the ship? Because Fed cruisers have such such long nacelles, you might consider enlarging the schematic and cropping of the ends of the nacelles.
Ok, consider the white text history. For everyone except Masao (coz he's already seen it) I included little note because I always like to approach these patches and logos as Museum pieces if possible, I feel it gives the artwork a more realistic feel.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Not to be the monkey wrench, but personally I think I liked the nose down version more. I mean, not that it matters. Just so you know you were not completely alone in your original impulse.
Posted by Middy Seafort (Member # 951) on :
Reverend,
I've really enjoyed all of your designs, especially related to the TOS-era of Star Trek. I like the note from Chris Pike. However, might I make one suggestion. It might look better if written out like this:
Jim,
Take good care of her.
C.P.
(As if it were a short note left behind by Chris Pike on the desk in the Captain's Cabin wishing Jim Kirk well.)
And if it is a museum piece, how 'bout it was donated by Peter Kirk, nephew of Jim and son of George"Sam" Kirk, Jr. As if, he had found both the patch and the note in some of his uncle's belongings after his supposed death on the Enterprise-B.
[ May 13, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Middy Seafort ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: "Dagger of the Mind".
Yes, TAS muddies things a bit, with most episodes scattered throughout the series, one big block of them crammed in between "Day of the Dove" and "The Tholian Web", and only four being tacked on at the end. And I have a problem with those four, too. Without them, "All Our Yesterdays" is pegged at stardate 5943.7 -- or just about halfway through the last month of the last year of the five-year mission, if that scheme is used. "How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth", "The Pirates of Orion", "The Counter-Clock Incident", and "Bem" all take place well after, with "Bem" ocurring at stardate 7403.6...
And a final thought... If "Charlie X" takes place fifteen and one-third months into the Enterprise's mission, and that's Thanksgiving, then the mission started (either with Kirk taking command or with the ship leaving dock) around mid-August of the previous year.
--Jonah
Ohhh so that's nice it makes roughly August 2270 the end? August 2265 the "start"? So for the Patch - 2265-2270 for that 5-year mission.
What does that place "The Cage" at? Presuming Pike had blocks of '5 year missions'... then we might be able to place how long the Enterprise was in dock between Pike and Kirk?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I LOVE THEM!
I like Middy's wording too.
And should the note have a shadow like the patch?
Very cool.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Middy Seafort: Reverend,
I've really enjoyed all of your designs, especially related to the TOS-era of Star Trek. I like the note from Chris Pike. However, might I make one suggestion. It might look better if written out like this:
Jim,
Take good care of her.
C.P.
(As if it were a short note left behind by Chris Pike on the desk in the Captain's Cabin wishing Jim Kirk well.)
That it is. Maybe the bad grammer is a subtle stab on Pike's part for Kirk's "To boldly go.." misquote.
quote: And if it is a museum piece, how 'bout it was donated by Peter Kirk, nephew of Jim and son of George"Sam" Kirk, Jr. As if, he had found both the patch and the note in some of his uncle's belongings after his supposed death on the Enterprise-B.
I just made up the Jr. part since I figure the donator was/is/will be a decendant of Jim's nephew Peter. Possibly his son or even one of his brothers (isn't Sam supposed to have had 3 kids altogether?).
In my mind, whoever George Jr. is, he found the note many years after Kirk's apparant death. It had been used as a bookmark and left in his apartment in San Francisco.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Well... George Samuel Kirk, Jr. (aka "Sam") was James Tiberius Kirk's brother -- who, along with his wife, was killed by the neural parasites. He is survived by his son (James' nephew), Peter Kirk.
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yes, I know that.
I conjectured that Peter (once he was all grown up of course) named one of his children after his deceased father and/or one of his children's children were lumbered with the name George. Or one of Peter's siblings was named after their mutual father. OR one of their descendants was named after Jim's deceased brother.
Either way it was never meant to be Kirk's brother, I thought the Jr. part would make that apparent. Apparently not Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
.. since i believe that when he was mentioned, his brother was actually already George Samuel Kirk Jr..you be thinking of George Samuel Kirk III (the third) for a descendant of Kirk's nephew..
not surprisingly, Kirk's family tree is a messy continuity situation..trolling my fandom sources, we know that Kirk was born to George Samuel and Winona Kirk, names established in many novels. GR's TMP novelization states that the 'Samuel' was the name of his paternal grandfather. According to Diane Carey's novels. G.S. Kirk Sr was a Commander in starfleet, security division.. he appeared as such in a recent 'Janus Gate' novel as well.. this invalidates the Gold Key comic 'fun page' bio in the early 70s that stated his father was Colonel Benjamin Kirk of some sort of space service.. (of course, since an episode stated the his brother was G.S. Jr, its obvious his name wasnt 'Benjamin')... GS Kirk Sr was lost inexplicably when the ship he was on vanished.. Kirk's mother died in the years between TMP and TWOK according to 'Time for Yesterday'.. this might explain Kirk's time on the farm on those years as depicted in 'Generations' (the book also stated the farm had burned down, but it was intact in 'Ashes of Eden' and several other sources.. possibly a single building burned and left the farmhouse and barn in that book intact.
Peter Kirk was depicted in a WildStorm comic as being a scientist like his father, with a grudge against Kirk that he eventually got over, however another DC story portrayed him as obsessed with his father's death, going insane and stealing a ship to illegally time travel back to 'Operation -- Annihilate!' to try and prevent his fathers death, only to become infected and kill himself in the sun (the story contends it was the grown Peter who died in the sun in the opening of that ep) this story was ridiculous and easily dismissed, especially in light of other stories portraying Kirk living. the novel 'Sarek' portrays him as choosing a Starfleet career, and beating the Kobayashi Maru (he IS a Kirk after all...).. this would loosely fit with the earlier WS story, just not very well
another DC story portrayed Kirk on vacation with his 3 nephews, cant remember much about what happened though.
finally, in the TNG era, one of Kirk's nephews had a granddaughter named Jamie who was a Starfleet ensign assigned to DS9 in the 'Blood and Honor' story written by Mark Lenard. kinda hokey, but not out of the realm of possibility.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: .. since i believe that when he was mentioned, his brother was actually already George Samuel Kirk Jr..you be thinking of George Samuel Kirk III (the third) for a descendant of Kirk's nephew..
not surprisingly, Kirk's family tree is a messy continuity situation..trolling my fandom sources, we know that Kirk was born to George Samuel and Winona Kirk, names established in many novels. GR's TMP novelization states that the 'Samuel' was the name of his paternal grandfather. According to Diane Carey's novels. G.S. Kirk Sr was a Commander in starfleet, security division.. he appeared as such in a recent 'Janus Gate' novel as well.. this invalidates the Gold Key comic 'fun page' bio in the early 70s that stated his father was Colonel Benjamin Kirk of some sort of space service.. (of course, since an episode stated the his brother was G.S. Jr, its obvious his name wasnt 'Benjamin')... GS Kirk Sr was lost inexplicably when the ship he was on vanished.. Kirk's mother died in the years between TMP and TWOK according to 'Time for Yesterday'.. this might explain Kirk's time on the farm on those years as depicted in 'Generations' (the book also stated the farm had burned down, but it was intact in 'Ashes of Eden' and several other sources.. possibly a single building burned and left the farmhouse and barn in that book intact.
Peter Kirk was depicted in a WildStorm comic as being a scientist like his father, with a grudge against Kirk that he eventually got over, however another DC story portrayed him as obsessed with his father's death, going insane and stealing a ship to illegally time travel back to 'Operation -- Annihilate!' to try and prevent his fathers death, only to become infected and kill himself in the sun (the story contends it was the grown Peter who died in the sun in the opening of that ep) this story was ridiculous and easily dismissed, especially in light of other stories portraying Kirk living. the novel 'Sarek' portrays him as choosing a Starfleet career, and beating the Kobayashi Maru (he IS a Kirk after all...).. this would loosely fit with the earlier WS story, just not very well
another DC story portrayed Kirk on vacation with his 3 nephews, cant remember much about what happened though.
finally, in the TNG era, one of Kirk's nephews had a granddaughter named Jamie who was a Starfleet ensign assigned to DS9 in the 'Blood and Honor' story written by Mark Lenard. kinda hokey, but not out of the realm of possibility.
Now that I didn't know.
Maybe I'll just change the name to something completely different and avoid the confusion.
BTW, the fact that Jim's Brother is a Jr. isn't stated in the Encyclopedia, so where did this reference come from?
Posted by Middy Seafort (Member # 951) on :
quote:
Peter Kirk was depicted in a WildStorm comic as being a scientist like his father, with a grudge against Kirk that he eventually got over, however another DC story portrayed him as obsessed with his father's death, going insane and stealing a ship to illegally time travel back to 'Operation -- Annihilate!' to try and prevent his fathers death, only to become infected and kill himself in the sun (the story contends it was the grown Peter who died in the sun in the opening of that ep) this story was ridiculous and easily dismissed, especially in light of other stories portraying Kirk living. the novel 'Sarek' portrays him as choosing a Starfleet career, and beating the Kobayashi Maru (he IS a Kirk after all...).. this would loosely fit with the earlier WS story, just not very well
another DC story portrayed Kirk on vacation with his 3 nephews, cant remember much about what happened though.
finally, in the TNG era, one of Kirk's nephews had a granddaughter named Jamie who was a Starfleet ensign assigned to DS9 in the 'Blood and Honor' story written by Mark Lenard. kinda hokey, but not out of the realm of possibility. [/QB]
I have all the aforementioned issues. The one regarding Kirk's 3 nephews, after all it is mentioned in "What Little Girls are Made Of" that GSK, Jr. had three sons, is nothing more than a camping trip gone aray. The Orion's show up and cause much mayhem. It is Jason Kirk,the middle son, and not Peter in this tale that ends up in Starfleet.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
