I've never had a proper go at designing a space station before, first time for everything. This is supposed to be the predecessor to the mushroom spacedock from the later movies, when I started sketching it out I had the idea that when it was retired, it was converted into the fleet museum. That way the station itself is an exhibit.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
NICE! Makes a nice relation to FJ's Starfleet Headquarters design.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hey this is pretty cool. Simplistic enough in design to be good for TOS.
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Cool. The drydock attaches/detaches... hmmm could they attach more than one?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I gather that is what the blue rectangles are representing.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
So there are three of the spacedocks... What do the smaller pods do? Smaller ships? Really big shuttlebays?
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Correct, there are meant to be three large 'starship' sized drydocks there. the reasone I replaced the other two is that the drydock image itself is quite elaborate and takes up quite a bit of memory and three of them would really slow things down. As for the pod docks, I imagine that they are assembly facilities for moderately large hull sections as well as being standard spacedocks for the smaller classes of spaceships. The shuttlebays are those dark grey boxes just under the upper 'mushroom' section.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Depending on what was contained in the 'enclosed areas' - you could JUST fit a Connie in there.
They could house 'secret' projects?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Assuming a Connie wasn't too tall to fit in there.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
I think that making that stardock assembly able to retract as needed to accomodate various starship sizes wouldn'g be to hard Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
N�mero uno: A Constitution cannot fit inside any of those three structures simply becuse they are not completely hollow shells. They have an internal structuer which would pervent such a large ship from even getting in the door.
Num�ro deux: The drydock is capable of some limited telescoping, but this function is very limited because of the mechanical nature of the structure. To put it into perspective, it can probably expand to accommodate a Federation-Class dreadnought (as FJ drew it) and retract to about two thirds the length it is currently depicted as. However in this state it isn't much use as a dry-dock since most of the mooring beam emitters and the hard dock armatures would be way out of alignment for most vessels. The best it could probably manage for smaller ships is adequate illumination for minor hull repair and inspection.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
In the other 'blue rectangles' there could be different sized dry-docks for other classes instead of all three being for Connies?
I hate how they just reused the dry dock in "Relativity" for all sizes of ships with out ramping up or down the relavent structures.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
As I said in e-mail, I like this as a candidate for the (primary) orbital part of Starbase 11 in TOS. The attached dock structures would be for limited and finishing work (i.e., the Intrepid was in one of those and was going to be moved out to make room for Enterprise). Other free-floating docks would be out far enough that any explosions wouldn't damage the station.
For Starbase 1, I personally combine the write-up from the DS9 novel "Time's Enemy" with Ralph McQuarrie's concept painting of the hollowed-out asteroid, reproduced in "The Art of Star Trek".
--Jonah
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Jonah is correct that the free orbiting type drydocks (as seen in TMP) would handle anything the integrated structures couldn't accommodate.
However there appears to be some confusion as to what this station actually is. I designed it as the predecessor to the big mushroom station seen in ST:III onwards, presumably the primary facility of the San Francisco Shipyards. I assume Starbase-1 and Spacedock-1 are two entirely different installations, I'm not even sure where SB-1 would be located, Alpha Centauri perhaps?
As for the Starbase-11 connection, I see problem with that facility also using this station design as it's central orbiting hub.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Unfortunately, this starts to lead into speculation on the Federation's shipbuilding and manufacturing capabilities at various points in its history...
F'r instance, were the "dozen like her" comments about the Enterprise in TOS due to the limitations of shipbuilding, or attrition from hostile powers and anomalies-of-the-week?
When were the various shipyards established, and how extensive were they at different times? I think it plain to say Utopia Planitia wasn't always as big as we saw in "Relativity", but when did it reach that size, and how long did that expansion take?
All this leads back round to the question of whether the mushroom was built all at once over the course of a few years, or expanded upon a smaller core over the course of a century.
This is a subject very much at the forefront of my Treknological musings lately, as I've been firmly entrenched in my Jeffries-verse fleet extrapolations for the last month or so...
--Jonah
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I know I could probably figure it out myself, but how big is this compared to Spacedock as seen in STIII (as oppossed to the twice as big starbase version from TNG)?
Because spacedock is actually a bit of an anomoly in terms of Trek sizes. Trek ships aren't big at all. Well, they are when compared to aircraft carriers and the like, but when put against mile long star destroyers, or 5 mile long Jupiter Mining Corporation haulage and mining vessels, they're quite puny. And the producers have never felt the need to make them massive to compensate. The Sovereign is still titchy compared to the Executor, and Voyager barely registers.
Now, this is a big, long, roundabout way of getting to the fact that Spacedock is, well, fucking massive! Enormous! Huge! The biggest Federation design ever seen outside the upscaled Starbase version (and possibly ignoring the Argos array).
It must have been an almighty task to build it. When starships seem to take years to build, something on this scale would have to have taken far, far, longer.
So...WOULD there have been a precursor to the mushroom spacedock at all? Would the Earth of the late 22nd century build one? And if they did, surely they would have made them last longer than a century? Galaxies are rated to last that long, and they suffer much more wear and tear.
But, er, cool design.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Here is my design for the Starfleet Museum and other stations from a few years back. I don't really like the idea of enclosed docks, but having one as a musem works out nicely. Starfleet had to build Spacedock after this design proved too small for Constitution-class ships. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I always assumed that K7 was named that way as it was bordering KKlingon Space.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If my calculations are correct, this is a reasonably accurate scale chart. I generally assume that Spacedock is primeraly a city, not just a docking station. Think an orbiting Southampton.
quote:Here is my design for the Starfleet Museum and other stations from a few years back. I don't really like the idea of enclosed docks, but having one as a musem works out nicely.
Agreed on both counts. I don't like the enclosed docks much either, which is why I gave my own design three smaller 'satellites' docks instead of one big one. I figure the enclosures were mainly for medium sized transports, freighters and barges although at least one of them could have been purely for the assembly of small vessels and/or sections of larger ships.
quote:Starfleet had to build Spacedock after this design proved too small for Constitution-class ships.
I had basically the same idea. Out of interest, just how many ships are in your museum? I ask because it doesn't look like either of our stations could handle the load. Perhaps the museum in the 24th century consists of several of these old stations that are no longer suitable for modern (C24) service. Say my old SD-1 as the central office, exhibit with a few of your annex designs in close orbit as permanent era specific exhibits?
quote:I always assumed that K7 was named that way as it was bordering Klingon Space.
And what do you suppose the stations on the Katarian border are called? That's not a very sensible system.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
UPDATE
Added some large hangers, sensor/coms dishes and a little colour. I'm still not yet sure what kind of detailing to put on the top section though.
Rev's Question: How many ships in the Museum? Answer: Too damn many. Even if both ends of the dumb-bell are hollow, there wouldn't be enough room for all the ships, especially the large Romulan-War era ships. So, I suspect a lot of them are just moored outside. But I don't want to think that Starfleet built anything larger than the double-headed J class. I suppose several could have been built.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The Museum could also have lunar subsurface (pressurized) docks for starships, like the Copernicus Yards have (according to a ST:Mag Sternbach article).
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: The Museum could also have lunar subsurface (pressurized) docks for starships, like the Copernicus Yards have (according to a ST:Mag Sternbach article).
Well, I'm a firm believer in keeping spaceships in space. Although the moon's only 1/6 gravity, getting the ships down to the surface and fixing up some sort of supporting armature might be tough.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
After a quick tally, I've found that the total number of ships in Masao's Museum is 41 and that's just in the articles written so far. That's way to many for just one station to handle, even if most of them are moored to free orbiting drydocks outside.
Personally I'm really warming to the idea that each of these stations would themselves be museum pieces, so perhaps when each of these types of station was decommissioned an example of it was moved to the SF-museum to double up as functioning dock and an exhibit unto itself. Of course any overflow being handled by more modern facilities, like for instance the Utopia Planitia 'dumbbell' design.
That would mean that the 'Museum' is a cluster of these old space dock, probably in high orbit, say half way between Earth and the moon to avoid becoming a navigational hazard?
P.S. I've updated the scale chart to include Masao's Starbases.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
UPDATE
More detail this time, mainly windows and markings (lots of paint). Actually those windows are pretty big too, I calculate that most are about three levels high. With a station this big I suppose they can afford to have such huge vistas. Also note that the top of each of the towers feature and even bigger set of windows, I imagine these to be huge interior split-level control rooms. For the civilian shuttle bay hub I decided to copy the arrangement of the TMP tram-station, just because.
quote:I always assumed that K7 was named that way as it was bordering Klingon Space.
And what do you suppose the stations on the Katarian border are called? That's not a very sensible system.
Sorry, but have you met Starfleet?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I generally assume that Spacedock is primeraly a city, not just a docking station. Think an orbiting Southampton.
Hopefully Spacedock will have a less shit football team.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
A lot of the museum ships are quite a bit smaller than Constitution and would easily fit inside the largest of my stations. The biggest ones, like Connie, Siegfried, and Yorktown would have to be parked outside. This is just guessing, however. One of these days I'll have to to see just how many ships I can cram in there.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Indeed, I suppose the really small ships, like the fighters and the shuttles could be on display inside the carriers and some of the larger starships' hanger decks.
At a guestimation, I reckon you could get about 1/3 of those ships into that double J-class station, that's using all the exterior docking ports.
Still, I'm sure you have other ships in mind they you've yet to write articles for and you've barely touched on the late 23rd century; the Soyuz-class for instance and I'm sure NCC-2000 is getting close to retirement after the Dominion war. Then there is always the early 24th century stuff and I'm sure that as time goes on more and more ships from the mid 24th century will be retired so the museum needs room for such expansion. Especially when the big ships, like the early Ambassadors and the Nebulas start to be decommissioned.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I'm probably not going to write any more articles on TOS movie or 24th C ships, since they're too hard to draw and the field is already too crowded with canon and fan ships. The whole reason I jumped into the Museum business was that almost nothing for TOS and Pre-TOS existed. Anyway, I'm not going to worry about finding room for ships I haven't designed or won't write articles about. Somebody else can go start another museum for later canon ship classes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Reverend that is GREAT work... so can the connies get inside the 'top mushroom cap'?
I tell you what I'd LOVE to see... MOJO are you LISTENING!?!
The Enterprise-Nil returning home to Earth at the end of it's 5 year mission in 2270 and ahead of it you see Earth and a partially completed Space-dock... sorta looking like the Death Star being built.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No, the upper mushroom is not for berthing starships.
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