The Universe has come closer to perfection.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Why are people still wobdering about this? We saw a Dalek EL-E-VATE all the way back in 1988, in "Rememberance of the Daleks". One floats up the stairs from a basement transmat station, just in time to be taken out by an RPG to the face. Also, various Doctor Who comics have shown a standardized flying platform they use to fly and fight with. The Daleks are far from immobile.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Actually, Daleks (and Davros) were levitating back in 1985, but the VFX weren't so great (surprise!), so it was a little hard to tell.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Were the Daleks EL-E-VATE-ing in "Revelation of the Daleks"? I remember Davros floating around while pulling an Emperor on that cyborg guy, but not the Daleks...
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I only remember Davros doing it myself, but, according to the BBC's episode guide, Daleks did it, too.
And, anyway, if Davros could do it in his chair, he should have had no problem fixing the Daleks up with something similar.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I also recall reading on the web-site about a scene in a really early episode (possibly "The Chase") where it's strongly implied that the Daleks can go up stairs. I'm guessing we see them at the bottom, the camera cuts away, cuts back, and the Dalek is at the top of the stairs. Or something like that.
If a Dalek can get around the Thames back in 1965, it should have no problem with a flight of stairs. In fact, if the Daleks are to be taken even remotely serious as a threat then the very idea that they can't cope with stairs is ludicrous. The only time the Daleks have been seriously hampered by their environment was in their very first appearence, where they drew power from the surface of their city. That can be explained away in about 5 billion ways though (they weren't fully developed Daleks, history has been changed by "Genesis", etc).
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
They probably couldn't afford the crane, let alone the SFX glow on the bottom
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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
So, the episode was on today.
Something happened when Rose touched the Dalek and it sort of sucked out her energy and DNA. Surely someone else in 40 years of Who must have touched one? Is this normal Dalek-ness?
Anyway, the poor Dalek almost got tortured by Americans, attacked by a maniacal angry Doctor. It also started showing other emotions beside hate, and committed suicide at the end.
So, this really is the end of the Daleks? Not counting the ability to just bring in, or fly to, Daleks in the past.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I haven't seen the epsiode yet (still around 45 minutes to go on my download), but I believe the Daleks are involved in the season finale.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm sure this has come up before, but what is this whole time war thing? When the Doctor talked about the Dalek race being killed and him seeing it, I thought he was talking about "Rememberence of the Daleks". But then he also mentioned his race being dead, which I think happens in one of the novels due to them being all evil or something.
But this "Time War"? Is that the books? I thought the extermination (ha) of the Time Lords was the Doctor's doing, and not related to the Daleks. So is this just completely new information thrown up out of nowhere?
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: So, this really is the end of the Daleks? Not counting the ability to just bring in, or fly to, Daleks in the past.
One Dalek "fell through time" and ended up on Earth somewhere around 2012, maybe lone survivors are peppered(lol) throughout time and space.
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Harry: "Something happened when Rose touched the Dalek and it sort of sucked out her energy and DNA. Surely someone else in 40 years of Who must have touched one? Is this normal Dalek-ness?"
No, nothing like this has been seen before. But what has been established, in a general sense, is that time travelling changes you in some way and the Delek did say, later in the episode, that it was DNA from a time traveller that revived it.
PsyLiam: "But this "Time War"? Is that the books?"
No. The executive producer confirms in this month's Doctor Who Magazine that the Time War is 100% unrelated to the War in the books. He pointed out that as a public service broadcaster funded by a license fee the BBC can not make a book essential reading in order to understand a TV series. This is a whole new war! He also points out that yes, this means that Gallifrey gets destroyed twice. (But hey, DW has given THREE different explanations for the fall of Atlantis during the original run....)
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: One Dalek "fell through time" and ended up on Earth somewhere around 2012,
Actually, her-off-stargate (BTW did you know she's actually from NZ so her American accent here and her English accent in SG are equally fake?) said that it had been on Earth for around fifty years.
2012 - 50 = 1962 and DW started in 1963. Coincidence?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Right after the theme song, they showed a helicopter landing, and a voice announced "Bad Wolf 1 descending". Obviously this wolf thing is either really important, or they just really can't get enough of it.
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Episode 12 is called "Bad Wolf" so take a guess...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Oh, they finally named it, eh?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Right after the theme song, they showed a helicopter landing, and a voice announced "Bad Wolf 1 descending". Obviously this wolf thing is either really important, or they just really can't get enough of it.
That helicopter was the old Blue Thunder, also used in the miniseries Amerika. Has it been seen in any other production in between?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It's mentioned that the Dalek crashed from space in 1962 or thereabouts. Davros and pals were operating there by 1963 for the events of "Rememberance of the Daleks", but this is unrelated to that.
Best episode yet! They took a Dalek and humanized it, but with an end that was ultimately satisfying anyway. Best scene: when the Doctor is locked in for the big revelation of the Dalek (pun intended). Best acting out of Eccleston so far! We've never seen any Doctor so scared, so morbidly pleasured, or so seething with hatred. Rock on. Why the hell is this guy leaving.
Mark
PS - Anna Louise Plowman, who captured my heart in a million Vancouver roles over the past few years, does her job well yet again. But ironically enough, this is the first time we hear her with an American accent, no?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm getting slightly worried about some of the in-jokes. The Doctor looking at the museum and lamenting that all his alies and adversaries are now musuem exibits (I would't be surprised if the Cyberman mask was from a Doctor Who convention), the Doctor feeling "old", laughing at the Dalek who can't go up stairs, calling them pepperpots... an odd nudge here or there is okay, but this is in danger of becoming overly fanwankish.
Still, wasn't it nice to have a Dalek story without Davros. Haven't had one in about 30 years. Plus, they did a convincing job of making the Dalek threatening and scary, just simply by having it's "waist" turn and putting a blue light in it's eye. It still moved slowly, but here it was the slow movement of inevitability...the Dalek would find you and kill you, it was just a matter of time.
And they even made the sucker part look good.
(So, if this "Time War" is unrelated to the books, why's it there? I mean, if they're going to kill off the Daleks and the Time Lords then why has it been done off screen?)
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
Having never seen the older versions of Dr. Who, I didn't know anything about the little Dalek dude and I enjoyed the little alien story. Good episode, and my favorite so far.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Identity Crisis:
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: One Dalek "fell through time" and ended up on Earth somewhere around 2012,
Actually, her-off-stargate (BTW did you know she's actually from NZ so her American accent here and her English accent in SG are equally fake?) said that it had been on Earth for around fifty years.
2012 - 50 = 1962 and DW started in 1963. Coincidence?
Ah, I remembered her saying the Dalek had been moving from collection to collection for a while, but I didn't realise it had been fifty years.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
(So, if this 'Time War' is unrelated to the books, why's it there? I mean, if they're going to kill off the Daleks and the Time Lords then why has it been done off screen?)"
I think it's one of those things we're supposed to learn more and more about throughout the season.
Besides, a show about the Doctor as a soldier in a Time War would have been roundly denounced by the fans. The show has to be about the Doctor just gallavanting about with a human and getting into (and out of) trouble.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I do agree with that. But then why kill of the Time Lords at all? They're a pretty good source of story material.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I think they killed them off to give the Doctor a sense of vulnerability and isolation - which provides a link with Rose as they're both cut off from their familiar surroundings and respective worlds (just in different ways - Rose by distance, the Doctor by death). Also it shows that the Time Lords - and by extension the Doctor - are not some all powerful force that will always be there. They die - and they don't always come back with a new face. Something that I think was necessary to make the new series feel a little more weighty and relevant, in these days of audiences being used to things like the BSG remake and other such drama.
However, I still think they will pull some kind of trick with the Time Lords and the series will, at one point, show Gallifrey undergoing something of a restoration. There are enough reasons that can be conjured up for the Doctor not being able to sense other Time Lords (perhaps they don't want to be found and are deliberately not showing up in the Doctor's spider sense?) to allow for some survivors to appear at a later date.
All in all I have to say I'm enjoying the new show. I never thought I would have felt sympathy for a Dalek. Or been scared by one for that matter.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The real question about the destruction of the Time Lords is: how did it happen? Were they killed in the actual fighting (which is what it sounds like from the "ten million ships on fire ... they burned with you" dialogue)? If so, and if the Doctor is right in saying there aren't any left anywhere, it would suggest that all the living Time Lords were involved in the battle. Does that mean the Master and the Rani were both there? And the Doctor's hermit friend whose name I don't feel like looking up?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
All the timelords - if they all got killed - couldn't most of them just regenerate again or does there have to be specific circumstances to allow a regeneration?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, presumably, there has to be a body. Which isn't likely, if you're on an exploding spaceship. And, even if your body is fairly intact, you probably have to be in a survivable environment. If you're floating in space, you could regenerate, but your new body would just immediately die in the vacuum.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Does that mean the Master and the Rani were both there?
Well, the Master is pretty certainly toast after the TV movie. I mean, you never know with the guy, it seems, but they have an excuse for him not being there if necessary.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I find myself unable to recall the Master's exact fate in the movie, but the guy's pretty well proven himself immortal...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Didn't he get sucked into the Eye of Harmony?
There are also enough situations in the show that imply a Time Lord can die without regenerating. When the 6th Doctor encountered his tomb in whatever his Dalek story was called (Revelation?) he said something like:
"That's it then. It ends here. No more regenerations."
He said it in a resigned tone of voice, and there was no hint of "but how is that possible?!!?!??!?!?!!" (I imagine that Colin would have lots of punctuation marks in his dialogue.)
Were you referring to The Monk, Tim? Or the Cellestial Toymaker? (Was he a Time Lord or not? I can't recall.)
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: And the Doctor's hermit friend whose name I don't feel like looking up?
Would that be Kan'po, the Monk who appears in "Planet of the Spiders"? He was a timelord - in fact I think you even saw him regenerate.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Were you referring to The Monk, Tim? Or the Cellestial Toymaker? (Was he a Time Lord or not? I can't recall.)
The Meddling Monk was a Timelord, but as for the Toymaker I don't think so. He was implied to have some sort of history with the Doctor, but I don't think it ever showed him to be from Gallifrey.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The Toymaker was not a Time Lord. And folks like Drax may not be Time Lords despite being Gallifreyans. Some think (and novels may establish) that only Time Lords are granted twelve regenerations.
And they can die just like the rest of us. While not established, severe physical trauma (decapitation, dicing, etc.) is generally assumed to be un-fixable via regeneration. You need most of your previous body intact for the process to work properly.
That said, there are plenty of time the Doctor could have been melted, vapourized, led through rotating knives, and so forth to keep the possibility of him ACTUALLY dying as a dramatic point. Had Eccles not made it through the big fans on Platform One, odds are there wouldn't be enough left of him to regenerate into Tennant.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I was, indeed, referring to the guy from "Planet of the Spiders". Who, I guess, was a monk on Earth. (On Gallifrey, it seems he was just a hermit.)
I intentionally left out the Meddling Monk, though. I was thinking that he had been trapped in his TARDIS, so we could assume he never got out and eventually died. However, now that I think about it, he was trapped outside of it. So, he probably would have figured out a way to leave Earth eventually.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Regenerating also isn't like waiting for a broken bone to heal. In a way, the Doctor does die. He's not quite the same person afterwards, in either body or mind. The core might be the same, but the 6th Doctor was rather disdainful of what the 4th Doctor was like, and in the books no-one seemed to like the 7th.
Not forgetting that there's a 12 regeneration limit anyway. So even if it doesn't kill a Time Lord, it does bring them one step closer to death. And with the Doctor about to hit the big 10, he should probably be getting a bit concerned. At the very least, he should have had a mid-life crises. (Although maybe he did. Maybe that explains the 6th Doctor's taste in clothing.)
(I do wonder what regular Time Lords regenerations are like. The majority of them probably don't result from falling off of radio masts or getting shot by New York street gangs. Do they all suffer the "I'm going to run around for an episode in a barmy manner" problem, or is that just the Doctor?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Regenerating also isn't like waiting for a broken bone to heal. In a way, the Doctor does die. He's not quite the same person afterwards,
Like drinking Absenthe.
P.S.- do not ever drink absenthe. Bad.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
quote:Not forgetting that there's a 12 regeneration limit anyway. So even if it doesn't kill a Time Lord, it does bring them one step closer to death. And with the Doctor about to hit the big 10, he should probably be getting a bit concerned.
You know I have wondered about that for years, glad to see I'm not the only one who's had that thought! :-) The Doctor never seems all that bothered about getting close to the final regeneration, when I would have thought it would at the very least be a point of concern.
I also never bought the idea of the Timelords inducing a regeneration between Troughton and Pertwee - surely that would be a waste of a perfectly serviceable regeneration? That's why I tend to buy into the theory of the "hidden season" between the 2nd and 3rd Doctors.
quote:(I do wonder what regular Time Lords regenerations are like. The majority of them probably don't result from falling off of radio masts or getting shot by New York street gangs. Do they all suffer the "I'm going to run around for an episode in a barmy manner" problem, or is that just the Doctor?
Even though they regenerate and probably go through the same mental and physical stresses as the Doctor, I would imagine that they would do so with Gallifreyan medics on hand to help reduce the stress so I think the barmy thing is just down to the Doctor having to recover on his own. Post regenerative treatment would probably be a branch of medicine on Gallifrey - sound plausible?
quote:P.S.- do not ever drink absenthe. Bad.
Seconded. And if someone dares you to drink 5 large shots of the stuff they are not, contrary to appearances, your friend, but the devil in disguise.
FD
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: I also never bought the idea of the Timelords inducing a regeneration between Troughton and Pertwee - surely that would be a waste of a perfectly serviceable regeneration?
I looked upon it as a form of capital punishment, except not quite as extreme. Of course, that only works if there's a limit on regenerations, an idea that wasn't introduced until later.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Sure, go ahead and make a good point why don't you! :-)
True, the regeneration limit wasn't introduced until later (at the time I think the Timelords said they were just changing the Doctor's appearance) but in terms of looking at the show's continuity as a whole - and bearing in mind the shudder-inducing implications of that phrase - it does seem a bit rough to knock off another regeneration when you don't really have to.
Capital punishment is one thing - but kicking the guy in the balls as he's walking the green mile is quite another!
FD
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Well, they were putting him on trial for violating pretty much every law they had. You could say that he almost got off easy.
(Nerd facts: It wasn't called "regeneration" until Pertwee's final episode, "Planet of the Spiders". The 12 regeneration limit was first mentioned in "The Deadly Assassian", a mid-Tom Baker story.)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
But WHY is there a regeneration limit? Is it imposed, or just natural? If the former, then it can be broken, enabling the Master to come back; if the latter, what's the science behind it, why is it Exactly Twelve Strikes And You're Out? Or - more likely, if a natural thing - would twelve be an average number, meaning some Gallifreyans get less, some more?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That would make more sense, but I think the series states that it's exactly 12. Was the Master in "The Deadly Assassain" suppossed to be the end of his 13th life, or had he attempted to regenerate and it had gone horribly wrong?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Well, he only violated the one law - the noninterference directive. They should just be grateful Janeway wasn't born on Gallifrey. Oh and he stole a TARDIS, so that makes two laws, one of which is a bit moot since the TARDIS he nicked was going to the knackers yard anyway. Even so, capital punishment seems a little primitive for such an advanced race as the Timelords.
As for the regeneration limit the impression I always got was that it was artificial - the Timelords offered the Master a new cycle of regenerations in "The Five Doctors" and at the time he wasn't even in a Gallifreyan body, so it can't be something inherent to the biology.
I think the regeneration cycle is an ability bestowed on a Gallifreyan when he/she becomes a Timelord/lady. Rassilon was said to have been immortal - perhaps his regeneration cycle simply did not have an upper limit? (Borusa mentions something about "perpetual bodily regeneration" in "The Five Doctors" so maybe his regeneration cycle doesn't wait till death, it just keeps tweaking as he goes along).
My own theory is this: I always took the regeneration ability to be based in some kind of nanotechnology, a bit like the Borg really. When your body "dies" they kick in and fix it up from the cellular level on up. Maybe the Timelord equivalent of nanoprobes can only do this 12 times before they hit their preprogrammed limit (that fits with Rassilon - as the founder of Timelord society and, presumably, regeneration, he might have a set of nanoprobes with no programmed limit) - it also fits with how the Master could be offered a new cycle, and why "Gallifreyan" does not necessarily mean "Timelord". Why a preprogrammed limit? Maybe Rassilon wanted the Timelords to be long lived beings, but only wanted himself to be immortal.
Additional nerd fact - regeneration was originally called "renewal" when the Doctor went from Hartnell to Troughton. The Doctor's companion (Polly?) said something about him being "renewed" which the Doctor confirmed.
FD
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
He also said that it was part of the TARDIS, which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense (unless the TARDIS is able to aid it in some way.)
I suppose the 12 regeneration limit could be there to stop the race from becoming stagnent. It's ironic then that that's exactly what happened.
(I do like the idea presented in the "Twin Dilema" novelisation that regeneration is extremely stressful on the body and can go wrong if overused. Maybe after a certain number of regenerations the risk becomes so high that it's banned, like how family members are not allowed to have children.)
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Could be the TARDIS provides some processing power for the nanobots to carry out the regeneration sequence - would explain why it has a role. I'm trying to remember the sequences of regeneration and if the Doctor was near or in the TARDIS at the time:
1st Doctor - regenerated inside TARDIS 2nd Doctor - forced to regenerate by the Timelords, not near TARDIS (I think) but they could have co-ordinated the regeneration themselves. 3rd Doctor - staggered out of the TARDIS, keeled over, and regenerated on the floor near the TARDIS (presumably within range of any transmissions from the TARDIS that would co-ordinate the regeneration process). 4th Doctor - can't remember. Big fall, but was he near his TARDIS? 5th Doctor - can't remember, but I think he was inside the TARDIS with Peri. 6th Doctor - inside TARDIS (played by a different actor though). 7th Doctor - far away from TARDIS (this regeneration went wrong - he was dead too long. While this was put down to the anaesthetic, could it also be down to distance from the TARDIS?) 8th Doctor - unknown, but didn't the guy in "Rose" say something along the lines of the Doctor washing up on the coast of Java?
I think the TARDIS might act like a processing hub for the nanobots to rebuild the body - they can do it on their own (in the case of the 7th Doctor) but it takes longer, the Timelord in question stays dead longer, and the whole process becomes that much more dangerous as a result.
I would assume regeneration (even carried out in safe conditions) would be incredibly stressful to the body - which is why I am surprised the Doctor seems to treat his with such a "shrug of the shoulders" attitude. Temporary barminess aside of course.
FD
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
5th was in the Tardis. Of course, the Doctor tends to be near the Tardis at the end of a story anyway so none of this is conclusive proof.
I'm trying to remember actual dialogue. I haven't seen "The Tenth Planet", but the second Doctor makes some sort of comment about butterflys and crysalises and change being "part of the TARDIS". The 4th says "It's the end, but it has been prepared for" and had that crazy shit with the watcher which was never really explained (unless you said that the Watcher was the sentient part of the Tardis). The 5th said "I don't know, I might regenerate. It feels...different this time", but that could be due to the poison having an odd effect.
For McCoy-McGann, I thought it was the surgery itself (not just the anaestetic) that caused the complications. They were trying to operate on an alien body as if it was a human. Plus this was a fairly traumatic death, even by the Doctor's standards (with only the 4th's fall to possible beat it).
Of course, I doubt that every Time Lord on Gallifrey has his or her own TARDIS. So it still doesn't make much sense. And there's Romana too, unless the Doctor's TARDIS was helping her.
Posted by tricky (Member # 1402) on :
The Watcher was a projection of the Doctor's next regeneration, something we saw another Time Lord do. The Watcher also seem to know future events, which makes things even more confusing, though would lend surely to the Tardis being involved. Don't forget the Valeyard, the 12th or 13th regeneration (although on the bbc site he's described as distillation, so may not be a proper regeneration). Who knows!
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that every Time Lord could have his or her own TARDIS...not much point having mastery of space and time if you can't travel in it, is there? I always thought they were the Time Lord equivalent of cars to be honest.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I always saw them as state-owned vehicles. More like a fighter plane than a cessna.
...of course, the Doctor's is a bit outdated.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's right. If they OWNED their TARDISes, then the Doctor wouldn't have to steal one, yes?
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
More likely the regeneration is just a technologically-assisted process. So, on Gallifrey, you wouldn't need a TARDIS, just the device that regenerates you. It makes sense that TARDISes would have such technology built in, in case a Time Lord gets killed while off-world.
"I do wonder what regular Time Lords regenerations are like."
Probably like Romana's. I doubt that it's the regeneration itself that makes the Doctor (extra) flaky. It's the combination of the regeneration on top of being killed.
"Don't forget the Valeyard, the 12th or 13th regeneration..."
The Valeyard was somehow in between the last two regenerations. Not quite sure how that works, though.
As for the Master, I got the impression that his "The Deadly Assassin"/"The Keeper of Traken" body was screwed up either because of natural breakdown at the end of his last regeneration, or because of some accident that normally would have triggered a regeneration, except that he'd run out. In "The Five Doctors", perhaps the Time Lords knew about the Master's ability to transfer himself into other people's bodies, and they were planning to clone him a new Time Lord body, or something.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Most fandom is content to accept that the "only twelve regenerations" thing will be easily circumvented when the Doctor comes to it - as long as there's money to be made of the franchise, anyway.
As for the Master, most seem to believe that the withered Master seen in "The Deadly Assassin" is either a) the Delgado incarnation burned up in some unfortunate happenstance, barely alive, but unable to regenerate, or b) what happened when he tried to force a regeneration when his alottment was up. Most believe the latter, as the barbequed master had a very different personality to the coniving yet often helpful Delgado incarnation. Thus, the withered Master is generally accepted as the 14th incarnation, and the first truly unnatural one.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's possible that the Master aquired some of the personality traits of his victim when he "stole" that body.
I really liked Delgado's Master.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Come to think of it, does anyone know whether the Master made any post-movie appearances in the novels or CDs?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The Delago Master has met the 8th Doctor in the books, I believe. And the 2nd too. I don't know if Ainley's Master has met anyone, or any post weird-ass snake-type Masters.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, that's what I meant. Events that take place after the movie, from the Master's POV.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm of the opinion that Gallifrey and the Time Lords are somehow chronologically locked to each other, but independently of the rest of the universe, such that they can't (easily!) travel into their own past or future. As such, whenever the Doctor runs into the Master, the Rani, Borusa, or whoever, it always follows from their previous encounters. I know some of the novels play with this, but overall I think that Time Lords don't travel into their own past or future except in emergency (crossover) situations.
The Daleks and other time-travelling races may be stuck in similar circumstances, or else they'd be endlessly trying to correct their own mistakes whenever the Doc mucks up their universal domination plans. BTW, an upcoming episode of the new series supposedly deals with attempts at changing relative history, when the Doctor takes Rose to her own past to meet her (now deceased) father, and Rose tries to save her pop.
Mark
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Isn't the somethingsomething limitation effect (that thing that caused the two Brigadier's to go doo-wally when they met each other) the thing that stops, say, the Daleks from constantly retrying to do the same plan over and over again until they succeed?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Blinovitch Limitation Effect. It wasn't expressly explained other than it was the thing that didn't let you do it. Most people left it at that. Refer to the internet for several different explanations as to how it'd work...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)