Overall, definitely a cool episode: I loved the send-off for Vala, because she got to do something selfless, and something that actually was rather valiant and helpful. I loved Nerus and his demeanor and attitude... and the idea that the Goa'uld will buy into the Ori's religious fanaticism (you don't think it's just one who's been "converted" by the Ori, do you?) is a terrifyingly logical development, in some ways.
But I've got a question: Is it physically realistic to turn a planet into a quantum singularity? I know that technically, a singularity could be of any mass, since it's an infinitesimal point and thus may not matter how large or small the mass is... but weren't there some studies about the minimum practical mass of a singularity? Or was that just limited by our own scientific capabilities to create such things?
Finally, I think it's incredibly awesome that someone finally tried to create a super-Stargate to fly ships through. It's the reversal of the standard practice in the SG-1 universe -- normally, the Stargate is the perfect method for small-scale transport, but ships are better for the big stuff. But since the Ori are still so far away, they need a quick way to send whole ships through. Scary!
My question, though, is why the Ori couldn't simply send their own nuke or other high explosive through some 'Gate somewhere where no one was watching them (an uninhabited world) and thus achieve their aim without anyone trying to stop them (or more specifically, anyone getting pissed at being duped and then trying to fix their mistake).
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
The "minimum practical mass" of a singularity can, I guess, be defined in two ways here, namely 1) as the mass at which our predictions about its behavior still make sense, rather than are riddled with holes and inconsistencies, or 2) as the mass at which it doesn't fall victim to Hawking radiation before sucking up quite a bit of other stuff first, but if your intent is just to destroy a planet by compressing it into one, neither applies (planets, at least those that are Earth-sized or larger, are heavy enough to behave themselves as singularities, but not so heavy as to be cause for much concern afterwards (plus, you would probably have quantum gravity pretty well worked out)).
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
My experience with SG1 is, I will admit, not to the level of most folks -- I caught a few episodes on reruns presumeably from early in the run which followed the standard formula of "go through Stargate, have weird adventure, come home."
Now they've got spaceships, and transporters - and admittedly, I haven't followed the show, but I have to admit, from what I've seen of SG-1 lately (and what I've seen of Atlantis, for that matter) they seem to be trying to be Star Trek without the "star trek" in the title.
I think SG-1 is an example of why some shows deserve to be ended at their peak. I don't know when SG-1's peak was, I just know that the earlier episodes I saw were clearly of a higher caliber than what I've been watching lately.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
OK, that last bit was maybe a bit harsh, but I know where he's coming from, not being one who watches the show(s) either. I read these summaries and think "The fuck?" Since the only place it's possible to watch SG-1 in the UK is in Sky and all they do is show the first three seasons on permanent rotation (6pm every night) - although granted they do show the new eps maybe once - and SGA is on C5 which no-one in the country can bring themselves to watch, I guess it's safe to say that chances for me catching up are limited.
So I'd have a good laugh if the show got cancelled because it wasn't bringing new viewers to Sci-Fi because it's so hard to get into without knowing all this impossibly-complicated backstory.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
The backstory isn't really the thing throwing me, though -- I can come into a show several seasons in and pick up on stuff, yeah, okay, I'd probably have questions, but I know enough to know the Ori are the new "big bad" and the old "big baddies" aren't so big or bad anymore.
What really makes it hard to get into is all of this quasi-Star Trek stuff: as mentioned, the ships (do they really NEED a captain's chair?!) and particularly the transporters. I can suspend my disbelief for the Stargate -- I don't know that I can suspend it for the Stargate, AND the Starship Enterprise, AND Mr. Scott at the transporter console.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Of course, transporters have been part of the show since the movie. The only difference now is that the main characters actually own one.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Transporters as in ... not the Stargate? Those things that rise up around a person?
I'm pretty sure I've heard characters talk about "beaming" ... I dunno, I keep looking for Scotty.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Tim's refering to the Goa'uld rings. Of course, the Prometheus is also equipped with Asgard transporters, which are much more like the Star Trek version.
Personally, I think SG-1 has been on the decline since season six, but I still enjoy it, and this season seems better than the last.
As for this episode: I had the exact opposite opinion, re Vala, who gets sucked into a black hole as soon as Carter is available, with barely a sigh. Like, maybe she got transported back to the Ori galaxy? Huh? No one seems to much care.
I love the idea of Goa'uld joining Earth, now that we're the biggest power in the galaxy. So I was kind of disappointed when it turned out to be a trick, even though that makes sense too. (It was also kind of annoying when the Goa'uld mispronounced "goa'uld.")
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
To clarify the "transporters" issue further, there are actually TWO types of technology that achieve the same effect. The first, seen more frequently and especially in the early seasons, used a group of five smaller, hovering rings stacked horizontally, which would "beam" the subjects inside. The other kind is the Trek-style transporter, seen here in "Beachhead", a technology which was first used by the Asgard and was given the Earth in gratitude for their help with the Replicators (the robo-insects, not the food dispensers ).
Sol: I do agree that it really sucks that they got rid of Vala just as soon as they could bring Carter back; it's heavy handed writing, and I also think that SG-1 really could've benefitted by making Vala a semi-regular for the entire season, mainly because even with Mitchell replacing O'Neill as the main lead, there's way too much stability in the character structure between the major characters (and their roles), and I feel it would've been an excellent storytelling asset to keep Vala around to disrupt that balance. However, within the constraint of having some way to get rid of Vala for a while, I think they came up with a way for her to depart with style -- performing a selfless act to try to save the rest of the galaxy.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't know about that. At least she didn't have to reach into the ship's reactor. Anyway, we already saw her softer side last week.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I liked the Goa'uld's disappointment with SG-1 after coming through the gate. He only got half the people he was hoping to see.
As for nobody caring about Vala, of COURSE they didn't! Especially Daniel, who had a bit of a smirk going. She was a pain in the ass! Besides, Daniel probably really does care what happens, but he also knows she's a very good survivor - she seemed to have most of THIS galaxy after her head. Besides, she can probably inflict some severe damage from her end now.
In the promo for next week, that was Baal, but he wasn't talking all Goa'uld-y!
B.J.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
They don't usually treat the Goa'uld voices for the trailers. For instance, in that episode where Kinsey was possessed. (And was there a follow up to that, or is he still out there?)
Of course, in that specific instance it might have been intentional, to keep the twist a secret. But I'm sure it's happened elsewhere as well.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I read these summaries and think "The fuck?" Since the only place it's possible to watch SG-1 in the UK is in Sky and all they do is show the first three seasons on permanent rotation (6pm every night) - although granted they do show the new eps maybe once - and SGA is on C5 which no-one in the country can bring themselves to watch, I guess it's safe to say that chances for me catching up are limited.
I guess it's safer to say your chances for catching up are limited because you don't feel like it, bittorrent boy.
(Which is fine, of course, but I don't understand why you'd even care to read any SG* episode summaries i/t/f/p if all you're going to do is mope about there being so much of what in your opinion is obviously such a hackneyed ((as for impossibly complicated, well, that's somewhat excusable, given there are eight+ seasons of it)) backstory that the shows aren't worth your precious time of getting into.)
"(And was there a follow up to that, or is he still out there?)"
No, though next week's episode promises to deliver one of sorts, and (presumably) yes.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mighty Blogger Snay: (do they really NEED a captain's chair?!)
What ship doesn't have a captain's chair? It isn't just Star Trek. Navy ships have a captain's chair on the bridge.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Hobbes,
I guess my problem is, for those of us who haven't followed the series regularly, trying to get into it, we're seeing a show that's trying to emulate Star Trek. And it might be a small point, but not all spaceships need to have a captain's chair -- reference "Firefly" and "Battlestar Galactica". The chair itself -- particularly on a sci-fi starship bridge -- just screams (to me, anyway) "Star Trek."
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You've got a bridge, you've got lots of space, why wouldn't everyone have a chair? That's just good ergonomics, not a Star Trek homage. Serenity has more of a cockpit than a "bridge," though I doubt there's a square-footage requirement in the definition, but anyway. Mal could take the other seat if he wanted.
I'm more bothered by the fact that Prometheus' poor commander is always getting shut out by whichever star is on his ship that week. I'm like, dude, Mitchell might outrank you but this is your ship, he's just cargo.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I was quite pleased that Pendergast was back for this episode. He's been away for a bit while other people commanded the Prometheus... There was that guy in one episode and then Hammond in another...
And $$$ for the next episode...
Baal has been hiding out on Earth posing as a businessman. They probably did the voice thing with Nerus so that its not a shock with Baal's not speaking all Goa'uld-like.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I think they ditched Nerus' voice mods because Maury Chaykin's voice works just fine and warbly without it - it would be a shame NOT to hear it normally. Though it was certainly effective to hear him go back INTO the voice when he went all evil and stuff. They should have gloweyed his eyes too while he did it, though. That has always been creepy to me.
And there ain't nothing wrong with the captain's chair! Plenty of SF ships before AND after Trek have had a Captain's chair. I see no real homage as just a sense of practicality - moreso than the typical Trek bridge, really, since the con/ops stations are right there with him instead of blocking the CO's view as most Trek bridges do. And it's always fun to see the Prometheus in action as it is here. With the addition of the Odyssey later this seson, Earth's defence fleet is finally starting to take shape - but against the Orii, this is doubtless not enough.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: and SGA is on C5 which no-one in the country can bring themselves to watch, I guess it's safe to say that chances for me catching up are limited.
Firstly, YOU should start watching SGA - cause if you find later SG1 complicated - jump in at the ground level. Atlantis is one FINE show. The first season was spectacular - and the second season has kept up the energy of the first, while adding it's own new twists.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: I liked the Goa'uld's disappointment with SG-1 after coming through the gate. He only got half the people he was hoping to see.
I had a similar reaction. I saw that Claudia Black was on this season and since she is the giver-goddess, I thought I'd try and catch up. Where'd all the McGyver go? Ooops.
Which isn't to say that I didn't like the first six episodes this season. Basically right up to the point where they unceremoniously disposed of Vala. From the start I was hoping the bracelet-bond would mean she'd be around for a whole season. (The joke about the limited gene-pool, priceless.)
As an SG outsider, I totally get what Snay is saying. It maybe doesn't upset me as much, but you have to admit they are borrowing a lot of material from Trek. Beaming whole buildings into space? C'mon guys.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Beaming whole buildings into space?
Yeah. I, uh, really, thought that episode was named perfectly.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Seriously, what's the problem with beaming up whole buildings? The first time we ever saw an Asgard ship, it was beaming up whole buildings. Larger ones than that skyscraper, too.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It feels like too much power for the primary protagonists to have. Like, what problem can't be solved by beaming up huge chunks of real estate? Forget about, say, fighting for that sacred Jaffa temple. Just beam it into space, wait a few minutes, and beam it back down again.
But the physical act of teleporting the building didn't bother me as much as the idea of no one noticing, and that didn't bother me as much as the clone. The clone thing really bothered me.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Wasn't the best of episodes - but yes, if you listenend to the reporter - LOTS of people noticed. Even though numbers of square-blocks had been evacuated. There were conspiracy theories abounding.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
As per the news report there was not a single eye witness; what people were reacting to was a lack of rubble. Which ought to be a big enough clue on its own, granted. How about the lack of any blast damage to nearby buildings?
As far as overall quality goes, I rather liked it, except for the end.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
You said NOTICING not eye-witness.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, to the stocks with me, then?
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Yea, verily. No, but, so that's the classic Deus Ex Machina ending that all first-year writing teachers tell you to avoid. I was like, "Wow, well the whole building is a magic Stargate material bomb, let's see how our heroes handle that..." Ok, well why don't we just beam the building up into space. Golly, why didn't I think of that. And so the tension (?) was over and there's twenty Baals sitting around eating yogurt playing tri-D chess. It was just abrupt.
Beachhead was cool, though.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I just realized that the Prometheus still has the ring transporters yet has been retrofitted with Asgard beaming tech. It certainly came in handy to have the rings in "Beachhead" since Vala didn't know where exactly the cargo ship was, but other than that, why does the Prometheus still have them?
You know, with this info and the fact that they also used the rings in "Avalon", I think I just answered my own question.
B.J.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nothing wrong with keeping a set of ring transporters around... They more than likely require less energy or computational power or something to use, as they are meant for site-to-site transport in places that already have rings.
Oddly, Asgard transporters don't seem to have the need for a transporter "room" or somesuch. I think we've only ever seen them used basically wherever they need to be used...
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