Okay, I've been watching STargare Atlantis and trying to figure the whole "Wraith become a threat to the Aincents" thing...
The idea is that the Aincents let humans get consumed by the Eratis Bugs untill they developed into Wraith. This sure dont make a lot of sense to me- particularly the questions of where the Wraith got their technology from and why it has not progressed any in ten thousand flippin' years. (possibly it has some but not exernally)
Anyone got a viable idea how the Wraith came to prominence? is there possibly some assimilation of technology/memeories along with the feeding process? We know that Wraith written language is an offshoot of Aincent....buy why is it?
Mind you, I've only seen up to middle of season three...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Are the Wraith even on Atlantis anymore?
(ANCIENT)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think MIchael was towards the end of season 3 (not that I've seen it yet).
As bad guys, I really dig the Wraith- they need a big win over the humans to become a real menace again though. I just re-watched The Seige (all three parts) again and really like think of that as a great episode. Far more dramatic (in build up too) than anything SG1 has offered in years.
The Atlantis gang just got really powerful really quick and then the (lame ass) Replicators were (re) introduced as villans.
They can still bring in whatever menace made the nano-virus from season one (or introduce some new menaces, of course).
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
A long while back, there was an episode that seemed to imply that the Wraith did not exist when the Ancients colonized/seeded the Pegasus galaxy. There was also a line (maybe the same episode, I forget) that said that the whole war between the Wraith and the Ancients took place in barely 100 years. Finally, there was a very strong implied connection between the Wraith and the Iratus bug.
My guess is that there was some sort of fusion of the Iratus bug with the Genome of the Ancient, thus basically creating a "human" insect. This could have happened naturally, by accident (an Ancient wandering into one of those nests accidentally, for example). But knowing the Ancients and their track record, my money's on the Wraith being the direct result of a bioengineering experiment.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I agree. There was a lot of talk about the Wraith being the "Ancients' fault" so they ought to do something about it. Which reminds me, this whole don't-interfere thing is one thing; but not saving people who are YOUR descendants from a menace YOU created with YOUR high technology is just...almost as bad as the Ori.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: They can still bring in whatever menace made the nano-virus from season one (or introduce some new menaces, of course).
That was the Assurans! The replicator ancients.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
OH, that reminds me, does anyone else find it weird that the Ancients made replicators that went humanform; and so did that robot from the Milky Way; and they *both* are vulnerable to the *same* weapon because they work the *same* way?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Which robot from the Milky Way? There have been a few. And if you're talking about the Milky Way replicators, well, they WERE based on the same technology. In this case, the only real difference is that they didn't form blocks that can be shot apart in really cool CGI battles.
Mark
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Now hang on then, I must be confused. I thought the robot (I can't remember her name, the black girl who looked 20ish but had emotions like a child, they found her on an abandoned planet) *invented* the Milky Way replicators. And if that's the case how are they based on the same tech?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
That would be Reese. And I think the postulation is that her father was an Ancient.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Stargate)
The hypothesis is that the Replicator tehnology was first developed to fight the Wraith, and when that failed, the Lanteans exterminated the original population (or so they thought). Eventually the Lanteans packed off back to the Milky Way, and presumably at least one of them (Reese's "Father") started over again, creating Reese who in turn created the various block-form Replicators. They wiped out Father's world, but instead of taking over the Milky Way, they all headed for the Ida galaxy to pester the Asgard (probably becuase of their affinity for higher technologies). The rest is history.
So, it seems that the Asurans and the Replicators are both offshoots of the same nanite-based technology.
Mark
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
That's a little more contrived than I would've hoped. I think they just should have kept the Asurans as asshole Ancients.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
But ALL the Ancients have been assholes. Why continue the trend?
Mark
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yeah. They're the worst good guys ever.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Oma wasn't that bad. Yah, I mean she kind of screwed up the once. But she wasn't mean. Plus she talked in really cool riddles. And wasn't half bad to look at.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Also they're (the Ancients) boring.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
We really need to see the Furlings.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Oma wasn't that bad. Yah, I mean she kind of screwed up the once. But she wasn't mean. Plus she talked in really cool riddles. And wasn't half bad to look at.
Yeah, but she was a rogue, remember? The only Ancients we've seen who wanted to do some actual good were punished or ostracized for it.
And about the Furlings, does anyone else just get a picture of little Ewoks in their heads whenever they're mentioned?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Just like in "200".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Obviously with a name like that everyone thinks they are going to be furry.
What do we know of them so far?
One of the four 'great races'. Were more pacifist in nature like the Nox and didn't like to interfere compared with the Asgard. Are quite technologically advanced... They have tech motifs that look black and silver and have little pyramid structures Some wanted to abandon technology and formed that community. They were known to at least one Goa'uld (the one who screwed up their community)
I wonder if they are in their own galaxy?
I would assume they fit in with another Earth-myth...
Asgard/Norse Ancients/Roman? Later Ancients Merlin etc. Nox/Faeries
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think I've heard it mentioned that the crystal skull race were supposed to turn out to be acended Furlings. It fits, but sounds more like speculation to me. I suppose it's possible that connection was droppd for whatever reason or the writers changed and it was simply forgotten. The latter would seam to be the case as they were built up to be enemies of the Goa'uld then never mentioned again.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I also wonder if they're native to this galaxy or not. The Nox apparently are. The Ancients aren't, but had taken up residence and established a significant presence, likely having already built the Gate system, when the Alliance was established. The Asgard aren't native either, but had apparently been visiting for awhile.
Note: I haven't seen Seaon 10 yet (it's on pre-order at Amazon) so I may not be up on a couple of things.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The writers HATED the Furlings, because it saddled an otherwise cool alien United Nations concept with a really dumb name. Think of the ribbing they took when they were announced at parites.
Host: "And now, the four races that rock our galaxy! The Ancients! The Asgard! The Nox! The... [snicker] the Furlings!!".
Nox: "Do not snicker at those less fortunate than you."
Asgard: "This rots, man. We TOTALLY need a fifth race to hang with now."
Ancients: "That's it, I'm outta here. See you on another plane."
When the current crop of producers took over in the third and fourth seasons, it quickly became one of the most derided questions that they were ALWAYS asked but NEVER wanted to answer. So when the opportunity came to parody the Furlings in "200", they turned out to be EXACTLY what you thought, or feared. And the Crystal Skull aliens were not meant to be the Furlings. Ascension was barely touched upopn at that time, and the writers probably didn't think much of it. Besides, the one example of Furling tech seems to indicate that whatever they looked like, they were at least as tall as regular humans as the buildings they had were about the right size.
Mark
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
What I don't get is why not play off it. Sure you expect "Furlings" to be furry and Ewok-y, so turn it around and make it ironic: introduce them as grotesque alien spider things with tentacles for faces.
Sure it's dumb, but there's plenty of potential to make a decent joke out of it while still moving the story along, something which Stargate doesn't seem to have a problem with the rest of the time.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I HATE that idea - just because they have a name that contains the word 'fur' - doesn't mean they have to BE furry.
Lanteans contains the word ANT
Asgard half contains the word ASS!
I don't like their reasonings NOT to show them just based on the name. GAWD.
For all we know that was a 'nickname' and besides they could have spelled it "pherllings"
Oh and the buildings from that planet - with the pacifist society - could have been built by the people who accepted their invitation ot join them.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Clearly, my brain is just wired differently, because, until I saw it discussed on the Internet, I always associated the word "Furling" with the word "furl", not "fur".
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
So...they're flat sheets of tissue with a long straight spine, which they wrap around like a flag?
That actually reminds me of a book I had when I was little, containing artists renditions of imagined life on different planets in the solar system... crystals on Pluto, ostrich-like things with giant ears to hear through the thin Martian air, Europan ice-skaters with lacy back spines to grab magnetic energy from Jupiter's magnetic field, and my favorite, giant gas-filled blimps with tentacles that floated through Jupiter's upper atmosphere consuming hydrogen. Point being: Why in this age of CGI is everything so damned humanoid? I want the Furlings to be grotesquely alien in physiology and psychology...
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
HEY! I remember that book!
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I seem to vaguely remember it myself...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Wasn't that a book simply entitled "SPACE"? From National Geographic or something. Had a big PAINTING of a spaceship (another rarity these days) on the cover. Borrowed it all the time from the school library. I liked the Venusians eating the Soviet Venera lander.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hmmmmmm - I think I ALSO remember something similar - and I've been looking for it for EVER!
I remember I think there were a series of soft-cover thin books "osbourne-books" had a red hot-air balloon logo. I think.
Anyway they were about various things in the series. One was about Space in general - had lots of drawn pictures, a few Bonestall pictures etc. Way out-of-date facts - but it was an AWESOME book.
There was also another called space-flight - and every couple of pages they had an experiment/art/craft type activity suggestion - in the spaceflight book they had a way to mimic life on a space station with artificial gravity - by having buckets filled with liquid and spinning around a centre of gravity - I remember one of the pictures had an astronaught in a verticle bathtub.
There was another book - I didn't have that one but I remember I got it out a few times from my primary school library - It was called Transport I think. They had various futuristic modes of transport - I remember a hydrofoil and a mag-lev train.
They all had AWESOME artwork. If anyone can remember what they were REALLY called - or where you can get them from or can scan them in - PLEASE let me know. I'd like to touch-base with those memories. You tube has been great in that I can go and watch all those saturday morning/weekday afternoon cartoons that I used to watch - some that I thought I had completely dreamt up as no one else could remember watching them! Does anyone ELSE remember watching Spartakus and the Sun Beneath The Sea!?!
Andrew
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Yup! That came on Nickelodeon back in the day, alongside of "You Can't Do That On Television"!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It'd be cool if the Furlings De-volved after reaching the pinnacle of humanoid technological existance (assuming they had some sicial adversion to ascension).
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I THOUGHT I DREAMT SPARTAKUS TOO!
I remember loving the ship they had and thinking the artwork was really neat, but I don't remember hardly anything else about it. It's on YouTube you say? I'll have to check that out at work.
That and The Mysterious Cities of Gold were my Nickelodeon must-sees.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Well, you know not all of the Others were Ancients. Some could have been Furlings. Or hell, even Asgard, there's no reason a few of them couldn't have ascended.
lol I love how my memory sparked such a response from everyone...Guess we've been geeks since forever Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Last night I watched the episode where O'Neill is being tortured and (ascended) Daniel visits him and warns that if O'Neill were damaged by multiple resurections via sarcophagus, he could not Ascend.
Maybe that's why the Asgard did not Ascend and became sorta the custodians of the emerging races. All that mind-transfering, ya know.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Just in last night's Atlantis (the one about Michael's wonderful experiments), McKay specifically mentioned that the Wraith "evolved" from an infusion of human (or Ancient?) DNA, in the space of just a thousand years.
I think this still leaves room for the Wraith to turn out to be another Ancient experiment gone awry. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I THOUGHT I DREAMT SPARTAKUS TOO!
I remember loving the ship they had and thinking the artwork was really neat, but I don't remember hardly anything else about it. It's on YouTube you say? I'll have to check that out at work.
That and The Mysterious Cities of Gold were my Nickelodeon must-sees.
Yes! And both had KICK-ASS themes/opening credits!
Spartakus has such a... intruiging feel to it - yes their ship and having a vast underground realm and that mysterious woman they had with them. I'm so glad others know of Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea!!
We just have to track down these books - do my descriptions jog anyone else's memory!?!
Andrew
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Vaguely. I might see if my small-town library has anything like them. But I don't have a scanner anymore, so the best I could do would be provide ISBNs. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: Just in last night's Atlantis (the one about Michael's wonderful experiments), McKay specifically mentioned that the Wraith "evolved" from an infusion of human (or Ancient?) DNA, in the space of just a thousand years.
I think this still leaves room for the Wraith to turn out to be another Ancient experiment gone awry.
"Evolving" into the Wraith would imply a homeworld where their society and technology also evolved- something never alluded to- and still would not explain the unique orgainc technology aspect.
Maybe the Wraith's human forebears were very advanced (moreso in areas than the Aincents) with the orgainc tech- that way it was actually the Wraith assilating the original race that took 1000 years. Hell, it's possible the proto-wraith delibertately integrated the Iratus bug into their DNA to become physically formidable enough to destroy the Aincents (assuming the Aincents really fucked them over- not too tough to imagine).
Another question- that whole "alien united nations" gag was after the Aincents lost the war with the Wraith? Seems the only answer as to why the Aincents got no back-up from their peeps. Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Ancient.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I wonder if maybe there was a civilization that developed in parallel/before the Ancients and it was they that got assimilated as Wraith and are the source of the technology...?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Like the Furlings? Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Vaguely. I might see if my small-town library has anything like them. But I don't have a scanner anymore, so the best I could do would be provide ISBNs.
Anything - photographs with your mobile phone even! Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
hehehehehehhhhh...Behind on the bill. No service. Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Contrary to some beliefs, the camera will still function even if the account is deactivated. Which is why I've sometimes considered keeping a deactivated camera phone in my vehicle just to have a camera with which to take pictures in the event of an accident.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yeah but I haven't got a cable so I can't get the pics off without service. Well library tomorrow, and I'll see if I can borrow my parent's camera. I hope they've got something, now that I've remembered them, I want to see them :-/
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