I've only seen the first ep, second is on my hard drive, but so far I'm very impressed. The show pretends that T3 never occurred, which is just fine by me. It's very much about the relationship between John and Sarah, and also between them and the world around them. The action is good, though I never really got the same feeling of impending doom from Cromartie that I did from the 800 and 1000 models. Maybe that's just me, though. Summer Glau is great fun, especially when she's coherent.
And when a shiny time-traveling robot is called chrome-marty, I just have to laugh.
So, did anyone else watch it?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I didn't but if you say its good and that it ignores T3, then maybe I will see it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Downloaded the leaked copy of the pilot a while back, I gather the actual broadcast version didn't vary much or at all. So, I'm downloading ep 2 now.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, it doesn't actually ignore Terminator 3. They time travel around it. At least one thing from the film (cancer) seems to sticking around for plot development purposes.
Anyway, I thought it was OK, but it feels. . . televisiony?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It has potential. Pilots are often a bit dodgy on the characterisation and dialogue fronts while the actors and writers get a feel for their characters, so no surprise in that department. One thing I did like is that whoever is writing this has done their homework on Terminator lore. The dogs, the barcode tattos, it seams to hold up quite well. At the very least they watched the movies & took notes, which is good.
The only problem I have is how did Chrome Dome's (as he shall henceforth be known) head make it through the time vortex sans flesh?
Something of interest; I noticed the Terminator in the second episode didn't recognise Cameron (his HUD said "Unknown Cyborg") so either he's from an earlier point in time from when she was manufactured or she's something new. My money is on her being designed and built by the resistance themselves, if not John himself. Why not? In the "original" timeline Tech-Com managed to destroy Skynet's defense grid and enter the main complex, which is where they found the time displacement equipment and a freezer full of T-800s with one missing. So in whatever alternate future this series is heading towards/trying to avoid maybe they got their hands on an manufacturing facility aswell, turning Skynet's weapons against it.
Speaking of the future, it seams as if the war against the machines have become a temporal game of chess (first person to say temporal cold war gets a kick to the back of the head) as the resistance obviously have been able to hold onto their timer machine this time round (in the Original timeline they blew the whole complex after Reese & "Uncle Bob" went through.) Not only that they understand the technology enough to be able to send back someone who can recreate it with 20th Century technology. From this we can only assume that the future ground war has reached a stalemate with both sides now resorting to time travel sleeper agents to out manoeuvre the other.
quote:I never really got the same feeling of impending doom from Cromartie that I did from the 800 and 1000 models.
Not to split hairs, but this is the kind of common misunderstanding that bugs me. Cromartie is a T-800, as are all the flesh covered exoskeleton cyborgs we've seen. Arnie was Model-101 of the 800 series, so presumable this chrome dome, the other one in the second episode and the one from Kyle's memory (in the first movie) were just different models of the same series. Which is good for the actors/stunt guys on this show because they can do a Cylon and kill them as often as they like, Skynet is all about mass production.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I wasn't trying to be precise, just referring to the models of Terminators seen in the movies.
Also, some of the writers have been posting on a board I frequent, and they explain Cromartie's head. They say it still had the flesh on it when the time machine activated, but the flesh was already burning away. It went to the future where the flesh finished burning, resulting in a skinless skull.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I thought it might be something like that, though that is pushing credibility.
Anyone else looking forward to the episode where they find out who's been elected governor of California?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
So, the question in my mind at the moment is why is it that Cameron can regenerate her skin but Cromartie can't?
Also, there is some kind of special relationship between Cameron and Future John... she knows an awful lot about him.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well even "Bob" said he could heal like any human. The original Terminator only went funky because he took too much damage for the flesh to be able to cope. On the other hand, I can see Cameron getting cut up quite a bit as the series progresses so they'll probably introduce some kind of gimmick to explain how she heals quicker than the T-800. Nano bots in the flesh, or a genetically enhanced form of clone tissue, which might explain why we saw her eat, to feed the flesh's enhanced metabolism. Not sure how that would work in the absence of a stomach though, giver her endoskeleton looks to be basically the same design as a T-800, just scaled down and with blue eyes instead of red.
My money is still on John having built her. Maybe she's his daughter or something.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Sigh... and here I was, hoping for some hair continuity. Yeah, it's a minor nitpick, but I'm glad that the biggest issue I have so far
So, Linda Hamilton's Sarah obviously was a blonde, but Lena Headey's is not. Apparently, it is not a good day to dye First Daniel Craig's Bond, and now this.
What pisses me off is that they could've made Headey blonde in the photo, which would mean that Sarah did dye her hair black afterwards, and it'd be a non-issue.
What next? Black guys playing Normans in Robin Hood series? Oh wait... never mind Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Something of interest; I noticed the Terminator in the second episode didn't recognise Cameron (his HUD said "Unknown Cyborg") so either he's from an earlier point in time from when she was manufactured or she's something new. My money is on her being designed and built by the resistance themselves, if not John himself. Why not?
It appears that may possibly be addressed in the next (4th episode). There was a teaser where Cameron tells Sarah they are in the same location where she was built.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Ever since Cameron's first cryptic comments about about having spent time with John and about how the sleeper agents "have seen her before" (but not "know her" as Sarah put it), I've thought that she was created with John's future daughter as a model.
Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: ...I've thought that she was created with John's future daughter as a model.
Oooh, I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
What is with this future daughter business? You do not send a sexy killbot who happens to look just like your own daughter back in time to hang out with your teenage self. This is a recipe for the most painfully awkward family dinners imaginable.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
You never saw Back to the Future, did you?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I just finished watching episode 3 on the lunch break, and man, was the last scene scary and visceral. I really like the potential of this series. Also, the middle of the episode has fembot exploring the intricacies of girl's high school restroom interaction, the results were kind of fun. I like the (apparently) humorless terminator having digs at John now and then, fooling him with bimbo questions and then doing a 'gotcha'. So far she hasn't come close to T2's hammy "now I know why you cry" either.
There where a few details I felt where kind of illogical in the past eps. The enemy terminator fleeing from fembot after they fall out of the window? Why hesitate, you can probably take her!
Although, I believe they have a precedent, the famous car chase scene in T1, when they crash into the bridge and the terminator flees and lets Kyle and Sarah get arrested, instead of just running over to their car and pinch their heads off.
Int. Scene, kitchen - John watches Sarah feed fembot synthetic food supplement, takes cup and tries some
-John: "Tastes like babyfood!" -Sarah: "Knock yourself out." -John: "I'd buy that for a dollar." -Sarah: "We're not plumbers!" -This Boy: "Good business is where you find it." -Babebot on stool: "Thank you for your cooperation, good night!" -John: "God you girls are so great. I love being with intelligent women. Smart is so sexy." -Searah: "You're dead, honey." -This Boy: "Shit I hate the weird ones. There was this guy last week, set his afghan on fire. Screwed it first, then set-" -Sarah: "Your move, creep!" -John: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID80fUT5SwQ"
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Two things I'm not clear on; what was the deal with the spray painted doors and how can blood in a bathtub be made to grow into flesh? I mean it can't technically be cloning as it's just tissue, no bones or organs (especially not eyes) and presumably it'd be from several different sets of DNA strands. From the dialogue I gathered that the "breakthrough" was to have a tissue that could be artificially sustained (by some process built in to the Endoskeleton one presumes) but I still don't get how it could spontaneously grow around T-800 like that. The Endoskeleton itself looked very good though, almost on par with the Centurions on Galactica in terms of realism and animation.
I do wonder though if the show will be in a "Fugitive" format, always one the move or will they get themselves rooted to one spot and have the whole universe revolve around LA.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The retreating Terminator had its own mission, of which we are not presently aware. Fighting the Taminator right then had the potential to endanger that mission to no good end.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Of course, in that bathroom, CG Terminator was much taller than guy playing him Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I presume the blood was just the growth medium for the skin.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Also surely Back to the Future is a perfect example of what I was talking about?
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Now there's something weird for today - Wikipedia claims that this this freshly reskinned Terminator is... Cromartie (aka Terminator from the Pilot).
If this is true, then I think my suspension of disbelief just broke.
Picture that, if you will - they want us to believe that plasma gun did no discernible damage to the endoskeleton (apart for decapitating him), which somehow got overlooked by authorities and ended on scrap pile, and managed to find its own head... without its head.
Not to mention that said head survived time travel without any skin covering :/
And why the hell the scriptwriters felt is was even necessary to do that? They have already introduced another Terminator in 2007 - why did they felt the need to drag another one from 1999?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Um... that was kinda one of the central plot points. Cromartie's head jumped to 2007 with the others, was activated, used some kind of homing signal to draw the body to it, and re-assembled itself.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
But that doesn't make sense. Or, to be more precise, is based on several unlikely assumptions.
(I, for one, was convinced that end of the pilot was the end of this particular Cromartie model and that Terminator from scrap yard was yet another Terminator)
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If you look back on page one you'll see this has already been addressed.
As for how he survived, well Reese did describe them as being "fully armoured", "very tough" (something about a hyper-alloy combat chassis too) and presumably that's coming from someone used to fighting them with advanced weapons NOT scrabbled together from inferior 20th century components.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Well, not really, no. I certainly can accept that skull itself could went to the future because it was partially covered with skin... well except for that gaping neck wound... how does it work anyway? Does the object need to be completely covered in flesh, or not? That's so confusing, isn't it?
Anyway, let's assume it could go into the future But what about the rest of the body? It was left behind. There apparently was an explosion, and... what? Did body managed to escape on its own, without anyone noticing?
You know what would've more realistic? Well at least to me Cromartie escaping mostly intact, then hiding itself until 2007, when it saw Sarah in TV. Instead we have this... headless chicken thing Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It's SCI-FI. They can do ANYTHING to explain this.
Mine is that Cromartie's head got futzed with when Sarah's gun zapped it, temporarily giving it a pseudo-mimetic property not unlike what the T-1000 does to mimic flesh. It doesn't actually morph or anything, but it simply allows the skull to have whatever flesh does that makes time travel possible. It is then capable of travelling through time, purely by unplanned means. QED.
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Basically they cheated...but not exactly. James Cameron was very careful not to explain the rules regarding physical object time travelling beyond "Something about the field generated by a living organism" and "nothing dead will go". What was never really explained is how the T-1000 (or the T-X for that matter) managed it at all. Presumably the memetic alloy works at the molecular level and does actually become living flesh (or floor tiles) at least on the surface. So I suppose in that state it is technically surrounded by living tissue. Perhaps the alloy itself is an organic substance engineered by skynet.
It's a stretch but the basic idea seams to be that there was enough LIVE flesh left on the head still generating this mystical bio-electric field for the split second between the vortex forming and the phased plasma gun thing frying said flesh. As for the body, I imaging the debris from the bank were bulldozed, skipped and dumped, hence it being buried in a tip in the future/present. As for why it was inert, I imagine since the CPU is in the head, it simply can't work without direct or wireless interface and just went into sleep mode. Obviously the nuclear power cells have plenty of juice to keep it going, so no worries there.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Hm... Oh well. As long as there's Summer Glau sauntering around, I'm gonna watch it
Just as an aside, I think this is Clark Kent effect in work
Basically, the efectiveness of handwaving is directly proportional to the scifi-ness of something.
I mean, people accept that Superman can do whatever he can, etc, but they have hard time accepting that his Clark Kent disguise is a pair of glasses and different hair style
And why is that? I think it's because his disguise is not something scifi-sh, but something simple we can grasp and understand.
It's the same thing with Cromartie - I can accept that its head has travelled into the future, but then I stumble into this simple problem of mysteriously dissapearing endoskeleton, and... I have a hard time swallowing the fact that no-one has noticed it at all. I've watched too much CSI, apparently Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I just treated myself to a watch of Terminator and T2 last night. Her'es the detail that fixes the time traveling head thing for me. Reese is explaining and says (as was mentioned), "something about the field generated by a living organism" or something. Then the Sylberman asks him how a metal endoskeleton could come through. Reese says "surrounded by living tissue." It's never stated that the object *has* to be surrounded by living tissue. Only that in this case it was. Reese also expressly states he "doesn't know tech stuff". Skin on skull. Skull go to future. Good enough for me.
As far as why he ran off when confronted with Cameron: I was thinking the explanation is probably the same as another question I had in my own head, namely, why don't they just build a nuke into a terminator and send it back to destroy LA. SkyNet needs the future to play out likes it's supposed to, with the exception of John Conner being there. They can't do too much to disrupt the past. Large scale damage or the Terminators being discovered could lead to a future in which SkyNet is never developed. So, rather than risk altering the future to fight this chick, he decided to take off so he could be free to reaquire Conner later.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I saw all three episodes today. Good stuff. I still have to wonder about The Turk. Even though nerd guy's house was burnt down, there's always the chance he could build another one.
Edit: I also love the Bear McCreary soundtrack. I must have a copy of the closing credits music.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Aren't we told that the terminator that runs away has no idea that the Connors are there and isn't programmed to find and kill them?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Exactly, it was only there to kill the cell of future-soldiers who had gone back, and was lying there among their bodies to wait for the last future-soldier to come back to the apartment and kill him too.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Just watched episode 4 and some new titbits have floated to the surface.
- Cromartie is a T-888, which apparently can be distinguished from the other 800 series by the exact proportions of the endoskeleton. Which makes sense since the first model was built like a tank, later ones would have to pass as resistance fighters, who logically would be generally smaller than Arnie, if not near starvation. Just a side thought, but I wonder if Skynet produced child model Terminators? Potentially harder to spot and more adept at scurrying through the ruins and tunnels. Dogs still a problem though.
- That plastic surgeon must be a GENIUS to turn swollen lumpy tissue into a dead ringer for a real person (hair and all.) Still, suspension of disbelief and all that.
- It seams Skynet leaves little to chance and is actively preparing to improve it's chances in the future beyond knocking off future leaders. Leaving stockpiles hidden all over the place makes alot of sense - I wonder if it's sent back a copy of itself to guarantee judgement day...though that may be a paradox too far.
- The Terminators are also infiltrating the military at least at some level. I doubt they'd venture too far into the lime light as their interpersonal skills don't stand up to close scrutiny. That is assuming of course that their CPUs are set to read only - Skynet can't afford them going native.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I have to admit, the new Terminators seem to have a little more personality than Arnie, liquid cop, and the terminatrix. Though as you point out, its not that much of an improvement.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Nor should it be, imo. I actually think Cameron is getting a bit too soft-voicy and considerate.
I also had a bit of an epiphany as I was watching this episode; there really is no difference AT ALL between Cromarty and Cameron in this series, as far as behavior goes. They both kill those they need to (except when Cameron gets updated orders directly from her boss, something Cromarty can't) and otherwise they just do what they can to get their mission done.
If you where to take away the ominous, pulsating synth music whenever Cromney is in frame, they would just be brother and sister. There's no inherent good or bad in them at all, just duties to be followed.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well that's what a terminator is all about. It's a machine. Granted a machine equipped with a micro super computer capable of learning and self awareness, but as was stated in T2, Skynet sets them to "read only" when sent out alone, so they can't go beyond their basic programming or think for themselves.
Presumably over time Cameron's chip is set on "read & write" and she will "learn" and become less a machine and more of a person as ther series goes on. Chromey doesn't have that choice, he's just following his basic programming a primary mission objectives.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, exactly what sort of sadistic psychopath is Sarah Connor supposed to be now? She left that dude to blow himself up in the middle of nowhere. The guy was just a hired security guard. He'd probably gotten the job from an ad on Craig's List, or something. But she decided that, after threatening him with a knife, roughing him up, and forcing him to drive her where she was going, she should abandon him in a minefield. What the crap?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah especially considering that it doesn't seem likely that anyone will cross that road anytime soon. So if he doesn't get blown up, he'll either die of fatigue, heat stroke, or starvation.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
He has a chance, which to her is better than outright murder. If he's clever he can retrace Cameron's footsteps (dust and scrub is good for leaving tracks) and if he walks by night and finds shade for the day he can walk it to civilisation. Point being, they're long gone by the time he does.
You should also bare in mind that this woman did spend time in a mental institution, threatened to inject liquid rooter into her doctor (not to mention breaking his arm and stabbing him in the kneecap) and very nearly murdered a man in front of his wife and child. This is an improvement.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I actually think they've gotten away from the fact that Sarah is a really messed up puppy and I agree with Reverend that this is far from as bad as what she's capable of. If he goes really slow on hands and knees and picks through every inch of scrub, he can probably figure out where the mines are buried. It'll take him a couple of days to cross that distance, but he'll survive.
I've gotta ask: what the heck kind of name is Cromarty? Besides being an obvious reference to the fact that the Terminators are covered in chrome, am I missing an obvious connection to something?
The mineral hoarding terminator was pretty cool. Not as scary as Arnold, but pretty good. I don't get the "going into standby" thing though. I thought it was super cool that he just cleaned up the loose ends, then turned and faced the door and started waiting. But why wouldn't motion or noise of any kind click him back on? It's not like he needs to conserve power. His battery lasts for what? 120 years? And it's not like he'll get bored. Just stay awake the whole time.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
That would result in what the djinns of ancient Persia famously called "writing yourself into a corner".
Reverend:
quote:threatened to inject liquid rooter into her doctor
I always felt like he would've gotten some of it in his flesh and on the skin because of what was left on the needle and inside it. *shivers*
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Maybe he did. All in all, it seems to have been a pretty rough night for him.
"(snickering) He was from the future too..."
You have to admit though, that Sarah wailing on that guy was pretty in-character. Very reminiscent of the Sylberman incident.
p.s. Rev: where did we hear that he's an 888? All I heard was Cameron say that the mineral hoarder wasn't the same design as Cromartie.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
He wasn't the same dimensions, I think she said the distances between joints differed.
The Wikipedia list of terminators have Cromarty as an 888 as well, apparently. And the most canon solution seems to be that "800" is the series of endoskeleton, while the "101" have the face of Arnold, so the Terminators with other model numbers differ only in how they have smoothed out their meat.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Cromartie is the name of a sports player that one of the writers likes. I think it was this one:
quote:I actually think they've gotten away from the fact that Sarah is a really messed up puppy and I agree with Reverend that this is far from as bad as what she's capable of.
Just to add to the list of Sarah's personal baggage: - Her best friend & flatmate was killed because of her, her Mother was killed to get to her, the only mas she loved (remembering she had bad luck with men before hand) died in her arms, she was routinely abused by hospital staff and add to that all the PTS, shell shock, forced medication, emotional trauma and hardening she's gone through, it's a wonder she doesn't actually BELONG in an institution.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Maybe he did. All in all, it seems to have been a pretty rough night for him.
"(snickering) He was from the future too..."
You have to admit though, that Sarah wailing on that guy was pretty in-character. Very reminiscent of the Sylberman incident.
p.s. Rev: where did we hear that he's an 888? All I heard was Cameron say that the mineral hoarder wasn't the same design as Cromartie.
It was on Cameron's HUD when she spotted his head flying into the future with them. Something like "Model T-888 - Mandable intact - CPU active".
Who want to lay odds on how long it takes them to bring in Silberman as a guest character? I presume the actor is still around and working. It'd feel wrong without him, after all, he's the only actor apart from Arnie to be in all three movies.
Here's a thought, how old was Reese supposed to be in 2029? I know originally he grew up in the ruins after judgement day, but that's been delayed a full decade so far. I'm wondering if Skynet knows or deduced he's John's father, in which case will baby Reese become a target for Termination? I nominate Michael Biehn for the part of grandpa Reese!
Getting back to the topic of franchise cameos, there's also the possibility that Kate Brewster might turn up. Either as a properly aged member of the present or as an even older leader of the resistance, commanding the tech-com forces in the past.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Silverman is slated to show up, played by a different actor. Apparently he's now a believer. How could he not be, after all that he's seen?
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
Well I've been looking forward to this show for a little while now, and now I've seen eps 2, 3 and 4 it's good so far. Hooked me in a lot better than that Bionic Woman. The fight scenes leave me a little dissapointed though, is the Terminator combat programming just something like this?
Step 1 - Knock enemy Terminator down and/or push them through a wall.
Step 2 Repeat Step 1 and/or run away.
They should use the same kind of choreography and camera work that was in the bathroom fight of Bourne Ultimatum. I think that would work really well in Terminator v Terminator fights, a kind of very visceral and brutal fight, using anything and everything nearby to beat down the other machine, ripping chunks of flesh/hair/limbs off of each other.
Did anyone notice what looked liked Nathan from Heroes when Cromarty is picking a new face? Sure looked like him to me! Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Y'know I thought the same thing too.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Terminators aren't known for their finesse. Most of the time the job is simple, see target, terminate target, run away. I doubt very much kung-fu programming, while visually exciting would be very efficient for a machine that has a grip like a steel vice, have a jaw made mostly of titanium and can punch clear through a human body, or rip it's head off with one hand. I doubt very much that many humans that found themselves within punching distance of a Terminator were stupid enough to pretend they're in the matrix and the ones that did probably made a very wet sound when they hit the ground. As for Cyborg on Cyborg fights, I think they made a point in T2 that they're obviously not programmed for that. As I recall there's a moment where both Arnie & Bob Patrick both make the same move at the same time (both having the same combat program) and found them cancelling each other out, hence the reliance on throwing the each other around to buy time for an escape. Again, perhaps as time goes on and Cameron learns, she'll become more imaginative.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
They're basing all the fighting on the two fights from T2 and somewhat also the pipe-fight from T1.
Problem is, the Terminator was slow and idle and just took it when being pummeled by Reese A: to show to the viewer that it was basically invulnerable to blunt trauma (and something more drastic would be needed), and B: because its foot was damaged.
In defense of the Cameron vs Cromartie/Duracell Bunny fights they are actually quicker and nimbler fights than in the mall in T2, much more camera cuts and pans, like in Bourne. They also use more kicks and elbows and such.
So getting hit 3 times before parrying may look stupid for Cameron, but she's following the precedent of the first movie, even though, as mentioned, that end fight scene had plot- and directorial considerations to it.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
To a certain extent, conventional hand to hand won't work anyway. You can't punch a terminator in the head to stun or disorient them, or kick one in the nuts. You CAN try to shatter an eye sensor or rip a limb off, but most evidence points to that just not being possible with kung fu moves. What you're left with is simple brute force, and that's what they've been showing so far.
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Exactly, you can't concuss, break bones (none to break), inflict pain, restrain (for long) intimidate, exhaust or anything you usually try for in a real fight. In the absence of HEAVY weaponry, all another Terminator can do is slow the opponent down so you can run away.
I'm actually reminded of the first time Reese engaged the original T-800. He got right next to him and unloaded a 12 gauge sawn-off at point blank range, grabbed the target and RUN. He had no illusion that he'd even damage it, just knock it over long enough to slow it down.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
A terminator could maybe break another terminator's arm, bend the elbow the wrong way over its shoulder or something, and the other terminator would have a hard time repairing himself. I don't suppose that will happen though.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What about the isotope gun? Do you think they'll ever get another one? I thought it was cool.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: A terminator could maybe break another terminator's arm, bend the elbow the wrong way over its shoulder or something, and the other terminator would have a hard time repairing himself. I don't suppose that will happen though.
I seam to recall the Terminator repairing a damaged arm in the first movie. As for one Terminator being able to break another's arm, we know that in the second film he had to use leverage to rip apart his own (already weakened) arm to free himself from the big cog thing, so I doubt it can be done "bare handed". As for the elbows, I'm sure it can go double jointed if it needs to.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Was anyone else bothered by the fact that another Terminator's hand got ripped off and left for people to find? I mean, they've been down this rather explosive road before. You'd think they would have paid a little more attention to his missing limb. Come to think of it, what are they going to do with his "corpse"? I didn't see any vats of liquid metal around.
I say this having not seen anything after Cameron yanked his CPU... I was distracted. So maybe they addressed this in the last few minutes.
Cromartie's new identity looks like an alien.
I have a theory about the girl that John tried to talk to at school: What if she's someone important in the future too, either to the Resistance or to SkyNet? What if she's being hunted like John is? In fact, if SkyNet wants her alive, maybe they've got a Terminator protecting her... It'll probably turn out to be something alot less interesting like abuse, though. And John will have to beat her dad up or something.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
He'll just wing him with a .44 and then roll up in a ball and cry. Continuity!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Strictly speaking it was the CPU that caused the REAL trouble, the arm was just the icing on the cake...and a very good reason not to ask questions like "where did this come from" lest it be answered.
Small point, but it seams a T-888's cranial port is much easier to open than a T-800's. Where before it was held on by a couple of locking cylinders that needed a pneumatic ratchet to undo them, now a flick knife will suffice. I suppose drama is slightly more important than strict technically accuracy. Other than that though, you can once more tell they've done their homework.
Also, am I crazy or is the new wife/girlfriend of Sarah's ex a dead ringer for Linda Hamilton? For a second I thought it might be her twin sister.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Don't forget, the Turk is still alive somewhere.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The list of suspects on that one is pretty short. Can't be a tech-com fighter that Uncle Reese didn't know about (they'd destroy it!) so it's either a Terminator...which doesn't make a huge amount of sense since why would it kill someone who could potentially create Skynet's core programming? Or it's his Russian friend (prime suspect) or perhaps some third part that either (A) Knows about the future and is trying to either prevent it/alter it to their advantage or (B) is just interested in acquiring advanced AI at all cost (Cyberdyne lives? US military?)
Here's a crazy thought, what if delaying judgement day means that in the future there's more than ONE AI running around? Perhaps the other one is on our side or is just "playing chess" with Skynet?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
That would be interesting. Though would it really be on our side or would it just get rid of Skynet so that Skynet isn't cutting in on it's human killing.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
On a unrelated note - finally, Sarah started working out again! Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: That would be interesting. Though would it really be on our side or would it just get rid of Skynet so that Skynet isn't cutting in on it's human killing.
As I recall Skynet caused judgement day in an act of self defence (from it's POV) so I'm not sure another AI would have the same goals if it managed to survive on it's own (perhaps in the satellite networks?)
As for who's "side" it might be on, I imagine it would be on know one's side, just following program. Pure speculation but it's possible the Chinese had their own equivalent of skynet in place to take over in the event that the ground command was taken out. So it would really have been this program that launched the retaliatory nukes after Skynet's first strike. Perhaps it was also programmed with cyber-terrorism/hacking programming to interfere with enemy systems. So in the post JD world it's hacking into Skynet's factories, reprogramming Terminators and sending them into the past using Skynet's own equipment...and so we have our third party.
I doubt that's what they'll do, but still, it's interesting.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Okay, so I just had the most ridiculous idea. Many think that Cameron has some other objectives we don't know about. Obviously she wants to keep John alive. But it's interesting to note that in the opening sequence, Sarah says that Skynet has sent machines into the past, some to kill him, and one to protect him. Obviously there could be just someone miswriting the opening, but assuming it's correct, why in the world would Skynet be protecting John?
What if John is supposed to create Skynet?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well why would Skynet send one machine to protect him, and many others to kill him? Wouldn't that be self-contradictory?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think the open means that some machines have been sent back to kill him, one has been sent back to protect him, but not all by SkyNet. Obviously it's supposed to be a tie in to the openers of the first two movies. Sarah certainly doesn't feel that SkyNet has sent Cameron back. She thinks John did. Whether that's true or not is open for debate.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
I liked how last night's episode really dug into the lore of the first film, and the guy who played Kyle did bear a decent resemblance to Michael Biehn.
SPOILERS
Didn't really dig the idea of the machines tying people up and questioning them in a dark room to classical music and then leaving them go. Didn't really seem to tie in with skynet's previous methods. Terminators always grab someone by the throat and kill them.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
So perhaps these machines don't work for Skynet. Or maybe they do and Skynet is playing a very deep game.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, we don't really know what happened in that room, now do we? Why would they just let everyone go? I think they brainwashed/tagged/did something e-vil to them in order to use them in the future. I thought the use of a 600 series with rubber skin was a nice touch though.
But yes, the tie-ins to the first movie flashbacks were nice, right down to the burned photo.
It seems that TechCon has a decent number of Terminators working for them though. I'm assuming it was TechCon that was hauling the jet engine since a bunch of them were being used to power the time equipment. Not sure how Derrick recognized Cameron as a Terminator when he saw her and yelled "METAL!" He must have seen her model somewhere else before.
Seems Cameron has additional orders. She may just be holding onto the CPU to download info, though.
"Sometimes they go bad. No one knows why."
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
All terminators in this new series have been sent by Mojo, that's the prime computation of it.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
M...Mojo?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Well, we don't really know what happened in that room, now do we? Why would they just let everyone go? I think they brainwashed/tagged/did something e-vil to them in order to use them in the future. I thought the use of a 600 series with rubber skin was a nice touch though.
But yes, the tie-ins to the first movie flashbacks were nice, right down to the burned photo.
It seems that TechCon has a decent number of Terminators working for them though. I'm assuming it was TechCon that was hauling the jet engine since a bunch of them were being used to power the time equipment. Not sure how Derrick recognized Cameron as a Terminator when he saw her and yelled "METAL!" He must have seen her model somewhere else before.
Seems Cameron has additional orders. She may just be holding onto the CPU to download info, though.
"Sometimes they go bad. No one knows why."
Where was there a 600 series? I didn't spot it.
They do seam to be confusing some details though (or this is the result of the altered timeline.) For instance, the rumbling they hear is attributed to "centaurs" which sound like an unused concept from T2 called a "centurion" (basically a scaled down HK with 4 legs) but the noise itself suggested large tracks, which means they were large HKs. They might be juggling the jargon around a bit so laymen don't get confused when the tanks and flying machines are both called Hunter Killers. Also, the attack on the bunker which happens off screen here is presumably supposed to be the same one Kyle described to Sarah (hence the burned photo.) However here it's said Kyle was gone before it happened, though we know he was right down the hall when the first infiltrator got in.
The battle of Topanga Canyon is also presumably the one we saw at the beginning of T2 and seams consistent with James Camerons original draft (which is much more elaborate than what we saw) though obviously there was no mention of them hijacking a load of T-800s and the Time displacement tech before scarpering.
As for the interrogation sequence, it depends on what Skynet was after. The brainwashing idea is possible, as it would get around the dogs, but I imagine it's unreliable and would require a trigger of some sort. More likely it's a straight forward interrogation for information, remember that Skynet is loosing the war at this point and brute force alone isn't working (hence the terminators to begin with) so I don't see why a Terminator can't be programmed for torture and interrogation.
As for how Derek knew Cameron was a Terminator, I imagine that will be revealed in a flashback yet to come!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Kyle was there when the first infiltrator got in, but he may have gotten out before the full on fight.
The 600 Series was the terminator guarding the humans in the house and taking them up and down the stairs. At least that's what I thought. You got a close up of his hand a couple of times and it looked very fake like a prosthetic. His face looked like Leatherface too.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
You're right, it is a rubber skin job. I wondered why his servos were so loud.
As for the attack on the bunker; youtube to the rescue! CLIP One would assume right after this he either crawled or was dragged out. The series could actually put a new slant on this scene by having him out looking for Derek before coming back from patrol.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Something occured to me this morning. The slogan TechCom had painted on the wall of the bunker, "Hang in There", is the same slogan that was printed on the kitty poster hanging over the safe in the resistance cell's apartment. Right?
Kind of explains why a group of tough-guys would have a kitty poster up. Little pieces of home are nice.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Remember Kyle's deleted scene from T1 when he encounters "nature"? It's almost like a religious experiance. Mind you, the context has changed since then. In the original timeline Reese was born after JD, so a whole generation of them had never seen green, or animals other than dogs and rats.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmm... I don't think I've ever seen that scene...
But you're right, maybe guys who live like this long for a little cuddly cuteness in their life. But having their slogan on the poster makes sense. In some weird, twisted time travel way, maybe it's even the source of the slogan in the future.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'd give you a link to it, but youtube is down at the moment.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Scratch that, it's back up. Here's the scene.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I had hoped Kyle's and Derek's barcode tattoos would've been a little more ceremoniously applied, like having the human prisoners of the hideout-raid stand in a line in a crematorium camp and pass through a doorway with a mechanical arm that swivels, grips their arm and burns it in. The whole place, floors and walls looking like stainless steel or brushed aluminium. They are pretty free to show blood in this series I think, but I guess the show isn't cleared for showing piles of CGI human bodies being shoved into incinerators, are they? I think there's some arbitrary line for shows like this.
And we are kept in the dark about what happens in the room with classical music that Derek was marched into by Michael Myers. Felt a bit like LOST, there. In a good way.
I liked that Derek and co where armed with the phased plasma rifles seen in T-2, modified with rangefinders and nightscope. Derek's aim was a bit off though, seems he used the sniper-setting instead of the auto. Kind of stupid with two mobile airborne bogeys coming at them.
It was real creepy with the Stallone-looking T-800 coming up from nowhere and gripping one of the guys' throat. Looked as if he'd been lying in the rubble on standby, waiting for the next sod to pass by. I wonder if the actor got picked for his Stallone-resemblence, seeing as Stallone was jokingly depicted as Terminator in the "Last Action Hero" universe.
This is pretty nice, how many official "terminator"-actors do we have now? I count Arnold, Franco Columbu, Robert Patrick, Kristanna, Cameron, Cromartie, Chain-Gang, Nuke-bunker guy, Halloween-guy and Rambo. Any more? Cromartie and Nuke-bunker weren't the same actor, where they?
PS. Did anyone see what Cameron shot the malfunctioning Rambonator with, after throwing him through the wall? Some sort of phosphorous shotgun grenade?
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Something occured to me this morning. The slogan TechCom had painted on the wall of the bunker, "Hang in There", is the same slogan that was printed on the kitty poster hanging over the safe in the resistance cell's apartment. Right?
Kind of explains why a group of tough-guys would have a kitty poster up. Little pieces of home are nice.
I saw that picture and thought "not even the end of the world can kill off the LOLcat phenomena!"
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I'd give you a link to it, but youtube is down at the moment.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Scratch that, it's back up. Here's the scene.
Reading the comments there, they're saying that Christian Bale is gonna be John Connor. Had a look on imdb and it's got him listed there. Can't say that I can see him in the role of "leader and saviour of humanity," as all the other roles I've seen him in (American Psycho, The Machinist, Batman Begins) he's pretty much a loner. Although I suppose that younger John Connor fits that bill, with him always on the run, never in one place for too long, "off the grid."
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
You didn't see Reign of Fire then? I think T4 is going to focus on some other character with Conner being in a supporting role.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
Interesting twist with Silberman, they took him a completely different way then the third film did. I like how Cameron just walked away and let the brother and sister die, it was a very Terminator thing to do.
They've really been pulling as much lore from the films as they can, I can't imagine them dragging that out beyond the second season though. Before you know it, Sarah will be visiting the family of the maintenance working with the Pepsi can that the T-1000 shot.
Was that ballet music at the end the same music that what's his name heard in the mansion in the future in the last episode? I didn't tape it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, Silberman really turned into a freakshow. Then, apparently, he went and joined FLAG and built the Knight Three Thousand.
I had the same thought about drawing from the movies. Silberman's recounting of the sene from T2. Cameron dressed up as a cop (hot, btw) and strolling into a police station.
Cameron really is creepy. The fact that she could play on the ballet teacher's friendship and get close to her only to walk away as they're gunned down by Russian mobsters because it wasn't her mission to protect them, then go pratice the ballet that the woman had taught her.... cold man.
The similarities to the room she was doing ballet in and the room in the house that Derrick was chained up in are creepy as well. Ads to the impression that something big happened in that room that we're not aware of yet.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ok so last episode was the "lets reference as much from T1 as possible", this time it's T2's turn. Starting right off the bat with Cameron in her Robert Patrick outfit (looking a bit like a stripper in costume than an actual cop, mind) to a shot by shot description of Sarah's escape from Pescadero, complete with an accurate description of both Arnold and Robert. As an aside, I wonder if Mr Gov'ennegger will give them permission to use his image as the T-800 at some point (like for instance the '84 CCTV from the West Highland Police Station) or will they have to recast as they did with Silberman, Kyle, John & Sarah?
While we're on the subject of cameo's, let's see what other characters can be brought back - Lance Henriksen would be top of my list (he could have survived...barely.) From what Silberman said the other staff saw the T-1000 & the T-800 too (though I was under the impression he was the only one still conscious at that point) so one of them could show up. There might be a place for Robert Patrick too as, presumably, Skynet used real people as templates for the Terminators (I recall some deleted material from T3 where a human Arnie was seen wearing a military uniform.)
It's nice that they've written in the ballet stuff to take advantage of Summer's background. For those who don't know she was a classically trained Ballerina before she was an actress. It's the reason Joss Whedon first hired her for Angel.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
Anyone else notice they started shuffling dates of events? Sarah gave up John in June of 1997, a mere 2 months before Judgement Day.
I wonder if they will draw upon other models and material from T2 and T3. I can see them hooking John up with Brooster or whatever her name was in T3 and having a cliff hanger with some enhanced version of the T1000 coming in to kick his ass.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yeah the dates bother me a bit because two months is nowhere near enough time time for Dyson to finish developing the new molecular memory micro-processor, have Cyberdyne get the government contract to automate all the stealth bombers, (not to mention the time to takes to acquire a "perfect operational record"), then Washington needs to pass the skynet funding bill, BUILD the thing, give it time to learn and become self aware. Just with the bombers and the funding bill you're talking a couple years each! I can only assume they've change the date of Judgement Day...again.
Not a huge problem, SG1 runs on the same type of altered continuity, compared to it's cinematic incarnation.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Odd since the writers seemed to watch the Terminator movies over and over to get the dates wrong.
John Connor was born 2/28/85. T2 was suppose to take place in 1994. Skynet went online 8/4/97, became self-aware and started judgment day 8/29/97.
So either way, Sarah escaped the mental hospital in 94, not sure why she was there in 97.
The series starts in 99, when John is 14. Suppose to be 10 in T2, although in T3 says he was 13 during the events of T2.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I doubt we'll ever see Arnie. The best I think we can hope for is recreations of the photos from the mall either slightly out of focus or cleverly cropped so the face isn't showing.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: I wasn't trying to be precise, just referring to the models of Terminators seen in the movies.
Also, some of the writers have been posting on a board I frequent, and they explain Cromartie's head. They say it still had the flesh on it when the time machine activated, but the flesh was already burning away. It went to the future where the flesh finished burning, resulting in a skinless skull.
So it is you!!
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
For those who haven't seen the afore mentioned T3 deleted scene:
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Yah, Silberman really turned into a freakshow. Then, apparently, he went and joined FLAG and built the Knight Three Thousand.
I had the same thought about drawing from the movies. Silberman's recounting of the sene from T2. Cameron dressed up as a cop (hot, btw) and strolling into a police station.
Cameron really is creepy. The fact that she could play on the ballet teacher's friendship and get close to her only to walk away as they're gunned down by Russian mobsters because it wasn't her mission to protect them, then go pratice the ballet that the woman had taught her.... cold man.
The similarities to the room she was doing ballet in and the room in the house that Derrick was chained up in are creepy as well. Ads to the impression that something big happened in that room that we're not aware of yet.
Yeah this wasn't exactly the proudest moment in Terminator history, but like you say cold man. Also Silberman mentions others who saw what had happened. Perhaps there will be a little cult of Sarah Conner to mix things up a little bit.
Ooh,Ooh there should also be a Terminator/Knight Rider crossover. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Maybe they find out about KITT and see him as a possible precursor to SkyNet....
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
And then, the X-men will have to stop Mystique once more Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
*fails to see the connection*
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Bruce Davidson. Yes, THE Bruce Davidson. He puts his pants on in the morning - just like us - one leg at a time. Of course, once his pants are on, he makes gold records!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
As long as he doesn't try to have Dan Ackroyd & Chevy Chase nuke America, it'll be OK.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Bye bye Cameron?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Hello Skynet?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Yeah, I'm wondering what's up with this guy. He buys The Turk and sends the Connor clan on a wild goose chase, blows up Cameron... now what?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Cam's not dead, at most I think maybe her skin burned off.
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
Either Cam is gonna be severely burned and have to hide in the house for the next 6 months to hide the scars, or she is reduced to an endoskeleton, and will have to regrow a whole bunch of flesh and stuff like Cromartie (new actress maybe?).
When I saw Reese take the chip out of the computer when they were hacking the traffic system, I thought he was gonna smash it, and that John would end up downloading Cam onto Vick's chip. Saying that though, I remember when I first watched T2, I thought Arnie would not sacrifice himself and would use the spare arm to replace the one he tore off.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, there's no way she's dead, but there is the possibility that a new actress is being brought in to play her. Either way, it looks like we might get a peek at her endoskeleton. I'm guessing she looks somewhat T-Xish.
With all the Terminators running around the past, it's not too far outside the realm of possibility that the guy who has the Turk is metal. Though, a Terminator would certainly know what kind of charge would be needed to destroy Cam. So I doubt he's a machine. Maybe a human working for Skynet.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Maybe severe damage, and we can see her endoskeleton, but she probably has some super skin regen. Besides, I'd hate it if Summer Glau got replaced. I enjoy the eye-candy.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Indeed.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
Liked the part at the end when Clamartie kicks the FBI's ass. I don't really get why he left him alive or why the LAPD didn't shoot them when they broke in to the control center.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Yah, there's no way she's dead, but there is the possibility that a new actress is being brought in to play her. Either way, it looks like we might get a peek at her endoskeleton. I'm guessing she looks somewhat T-Xish.
We already got a look at her metal when the Terminator that killed Derek's crew looked at her. She looks just like all the others, just different proportions and presumably blue instead of red eyes. Good thing too, I never liked the T-X design, it had too much personality.
As for why Cromartie left him alive, I imagine it was just because he was no longer a threat and showed no signs of fighting back. Terminators aren't vindictive.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Shoot... I'll have to see if I still have that ep on tape. I totally missed the TermoVision scan of her.
I don't think it was LAPD chasing them in the control center, I think it was security. But either way, Sarah took a mean shot at that guy's kidneys. She's a tough chick.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
One theory is that our favorite FBI agent was left alive because Skynet wants him alive for some particular reason. Or alternately, Cromarte will just use him to help find Sarah and John.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Well now that the FBI is involved, its probably going to be a lot harder for Crom to find them anyway. But I do suspect that the FBI guy may be involved in the creation of Skynet for some reason.
And I would be pissed if they got rid of Glau. The one episode where she smiles AND winks shouldnt be the one where she dies.... she'll probably just regenerate or something IMO.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
All of Agent Ellison's Biblical references seem to make me think he's involved with SkyNet too for some reason. My guess is the Conner's will barely interact with him directly throughout the course of the series until towards the end at which point they'll be forced to kill him.
One enduring question in my mind is, will the series end with Judgement Day happening ala T3 or with it being prevented? There's probably no answer to that yet. If the series gets canceled early on, they might end it with the Conners still unsure as to whether they've prevented it or not.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I've heard that this show is on rocky ground and may not be renewed for a second season... Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well of course it's on FOX, it doesn't hold a candle to more intelligent shows like Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader? and the Moment of Truth.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think most shows that aren't heavy hitters like Galactica are on rocky ground since the strike. With a bit of luck NBC might not cancel Bionic Woman and Fox will feel compelled to compete in the female cyborg department.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Bionic Woman is so cancelled.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'd be surprised if it isn't.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
The Moment of Truth is a terrible, terrible show. I mean, how much more American can we get? "Ruin your life and strain your marriage for $50,000!"
Heh.
If they cancel SC and not Bionic Woman, it'd be a crying shame IMHO.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I wasn't that impressed with BW. But SCC deserves alot more.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No, the dialogue was rather painful at times and I'm sorry to say it, but Katee Sackhoff make for a very irritating antagonist. Not so much her fault, just again with the blatantly lazy writing.
While SCC hasn't exactly been television GOLD, it's done enough in only this handful of episodes to keep me interested and wanting more, so I'd rather see it get renewed than BW. If nothing else I'd feel sorry for Summer Glau if it doesn't get picked up, poor girl would think she has the TV touch of death after two shows cancelled so early on.
Having said all that I gather Fox has been marketing the show quite heavily, so I'm not TOO worried yet.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Not gold? This is the best show I've seen since early Galactica.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Sure, but that's more to do with the general poor quality of TV shows in the last few years. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, just acknowledging it's had the odd stumble in it's short life. I wouldn't quite put it up there with the likes of Firefly, for example, but it's still quite above average. At least in terms of instant appeal.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
It's also got a good backstory to draw from. There are interesting plot lines to draw from and develop that don't need alot of set-up.
Nothing will ever be as instantly and continually awesome as Firefly. It was quite simply one of the best shows ever.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Speaking of which...
The first of the new Serenity comics, Better Days, comes out on Wednesday. It's about when a job actually goes right for them for once & how they can't really cope with it. Anyway, it's 3 issues like Those Left Behind. I found the covers for all 3 (done by Adam Hughes) combined them into a big picture:
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You can see the original picture on Adam Hughes' website, www.justsayah.com
Dang, Inara's hot.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
And we shall call this land ... 'this land'
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well I think we should call it your grave.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ah! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...getting back on topic. Did anyone else love the Johnny Cash song? Very sneaky (and effective) way for them to save money by replacing what would normally be a quick cut filled action sequence with a bunch of stuntmen jumping into a swimming pool. In an odd way it reminded me of "Severed Dreams" from B5; the bit where they dialled down the sound effects and dialogue and just played it off the music and images. Not often you see that kind of artistic restraint used in TV today.
Small point, but Mr FBI bloke isn't too clever only bringing a Swat Team, that is assuming the West Highland Police Station incident is in Sarah's file and assuming he could put two and two together as to who/what the heavily armed killing machine on the security footage really was...and then there was the incident with the minigun.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
His tactical open poolside reloading wasn't too bright either.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
He obviously hasn't made the connection to the T1 and T2 sprees yet in his investigation.
I really felt sorry for him, standing there at the poolside helpless, having gotten all those people and the FBI-woman killed. It seemed the terminator fought them hand-to-hand too, very gruesome. In the beginning of the series Ellison irritated me but now, after the Silberman treatment and this, he really feels like the Job of the series.
I thought "The Man Comes Around" was perfect because of how it detached the viewer from the technicalities of the raid. We didn't need to see how the police fought, they would die anyway.
Yes, I too thought of "The lynching of Lord Refa".
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think the Refa lynching was in "and the rock cried out no hiding place" not Severed Dreams, but yes, the technique was quite similar.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I still have trouble getting past the actor they've got playing Cromartie. He's not big and bad enough to be a terminator. Not nearly as big as the guy who played him before the time bubble. He looks like a little guy now. His performance is good. Very cold, very detatched. I just don't like his look.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Keep in mind that originally James Cameron envisioned the Terminator looking like any "normal" person, in fact I think Lance Hendrikson originally had the part. Of course since Arnie is the first Termie we ever saw there's this (perhaps subconscious) expectation that they're all big huge hulking machines. The reality is that anything expecting to infiltrate a bunker full of starving lice infested survivors shouldn't look anywhere near as well fed and healthy. I suppose the in-universe logic would be that as a T-800/101 he's one of if not the first of the 800's and it was the later models that started looking leaner and less Mr Universe material.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I was happy with the idea that it took an outer frame of Arnold or Franco Columbu to hide the exoskeleton of the T-800 series. Newer, leaner ones should be called something else. The new super-infiltration series or something, I don't think Arnold's first bot would've had the skill to get married and maintain a relationship when it took him almost ten seconds just to tell a janitor to fuck off. :.)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't mind the idea that the Ts can be lean, but Cromartie was a big dude when we first saw him. Now all of a sudden, he's a little guy.
The new social abilities would be a software issue, not a model issue. Theoretically, the software could be loaded onto any of the earlier models to give them more personality. Perhaps the T-888 is an advanced infiltation model because it's designed to look and feel more normal instead of like a bodybuilder. Vick was a big guy, but nowhere near as big as Uncle Bob.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I find it odd that the woman married Vick when in his memories, he clearly has the personality of a plank of wood. As for the advanced infiltration models being called something else; they are, they're called T-888. That is 88 models more advanced that the 800. As for the difference in body mass, it could partly be down to the new flesh and subsequent surgery making him leaner than his last flesh suit. Case in point look at Arnie with all his bulk then look at the Endoskeleton we saw at the end. Sure the height is more or less the same and the shoulders are about as broad but there's still LOTS of extra padding there. So there's some leeway for how big or small a body Cromartie's metal can fit inside. Indeed, Vick was also a T-888 no? And that bloke was bigger than either of the Cromartie actors.
Oh and the second season is looking more and more likely. LINK Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I don't have any screens of the terminator skeletons from 1 and 2, is the new "battle chassi" actually more armored? When the thing stood up in the skin-doctor's bathroom, I thought it had some more plating on the chest and abdomen.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Um, wrong link?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: I don't have any screens of the terminator skeletons from 1 and 2, is the new "battle chassi" actually more armored? When the thing stood up in the skin-doctor's bathroom, I thought it had some more plating on the chest and abdomen.
Yeah I noticed that the skeletons don't leave as much exposed as the ones in the movie. Overall, what I like about the SCC is that it doesn't try too hard emulate the original characters of the movies, but rather give its own take on the universe while remaining faithful to the story. So Cromartie doesn't have to be like Arnie and Cameron doesn't have to be like Bloodrayne. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:and Cameron doesn't have to be like Bloodrayne.
Don't ever mention that name again in this house. *chucks another replica goth-dagger at the Boll doll* Anyway, Glau couldn't possibly emulate that, she doesn't have the extra eight inches and cumbersome gait.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Um, wrong link?
That's what I get for posting on two boards at once. LINK Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Why would they cancel the show after one season? They're advertising it so much, it would seem stupid to end it now, especially considering how good of a show it is.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Because network execs are idiots. It's like gas prices. There's really no rhyme or reason to anything they do. But hopefully they'll do the opposite and keep this one on.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
So we've learned one particularly interesting fact: terminators are sent back to assume the identities of existing people. This gives me a theory about who was in the music room. It was Cameron. Human Cameron. And she's Derek's daughter. It explains how he knew Cameron was a machine on first sight, and it explains his reactions to her since then.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
why would it have been Cameron in the music room?
And how do we know they're sent back to assume people's identity's? Vick didn't replace the traffic lady's husband. She married a cyborg. In his memories, we saw an image of him being activated and a whole room full of his model. If we hadn't seen that image, I might agree that he killed her husband and took his place.
I still don't get your reasoning on the Cameron thing though...
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Cameron being in the room is from the fact that in 2007 she was dancing to the same piece of music that Derek heard in the music room. That, and he had a strong reaction to seeing her immediately after that room. Not definite, but a good indicator.
The woman's husband was killed in a "car accident" and replaced. The shot of multiple Vick units was apparently an error, due to the writers being out of the post-production loop.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK... I do remember her mentioning a car accident... yah, that makes sense. I guess they could've had a specific mission for that model and just made more of him for other uses.
Still not seeing the Cameron thing though.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well it would explain why he instantly knew she was a Terminator if he had seen her, or another of her model before. She's a little too old to be his daughter though.
As for T-888s replacing people, it's possible, though in Vik's case I didn't get the impression such was the case. The army bloke from a few episodes back could have been one, though fake credentials would be easier.
From a purely tactical standpoint I can see Skynet making "copies" of known or at least captured resistance members but without their memories and the inherent lack of personality (necessitated by Skynet setting the CPUs to "read only") I can't see the ruse going very far. Besides they'd never get passed the dogs.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
So are you thinking the real human Cameron was in the room and got killed there? I don't know... I think something happened to him that we don't know about yet. When John asked him "Do we do this alot in the future? Sneak around in the dark?" The way Derek answered him: "We do this alot," seemed very Terminatorish. But I find it hard to believe that he's been replaced by a machine. At least by a machine that knows it's a machine. Why would a T have gone to the trouble of taking John to see his dad?
There's also the unanswered question of why the machines let the left the prisoners alone all of a sudden with an axe to get themselves free. They all seemed to know it was a set up of some kind. I think Derek has either been replaced or brainwashed.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Well we know Derek wasn't replaced by the simple fact that he was shot and needed surgery. I think Charlie would have noticed he wasn't human. Just, y'know, putting that out there.
Posted by Josh (Member # 1884) on :
Wasn't this season supposed to be 14 episodes but trimmed to nine because of the writter's strike? I'm wondering how things would have unfolded differently if they ran another 5 episodes this season. We have so many lingering plot threads going right now.
I hope next season changes up the status quo a bit.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well I imagine a chunk of that would have covered the two high school threads of the mysterious girl and the weird graffiti.
As for Derek, Cameron and the room; She may have been there or another of her model (he did jump on her the second he saw her) I doubt that he saw a human with her face as the time frame would be too small.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
About Cameron, I agree with the consensus of her perhaps being in the room, but maybe as another member of the resistance who was also captured and tortured to get information from Derek.
Either way, they still have some sort of familiar connection in the future.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'd buy another of her model somehow being in that room and used to get info from Derek. He looked whipped when he came out like he'd been broken. Maybe he gave something up to save her only to find out she was a machine pretending to be tortured.
The finale didn't seem like much of a finale. Seems like should be one more episode. And yah... the high school girl plot needs to be tapped more. They can't just leave it hanging after making it so obvious that it's something we should be wondering about.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Or perhaps she was the interrogator and the T-600 was just on jailer duty.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Possibly.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Source: hollywoodreporter.com
At this point in the season, the strictly defined countries of "renewed" and "canceled" have acres of gray area in between. A couple dozen shows are clustered near the border, on the verge of being declared dead or alive for next season.
"Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles." Fans need not worry: Sources say that "Terminator" will be back. Fox executives like the creative product and thought the finale's performance last week was solid. The network also spent a considerable amount marketing the show, giving Season 2 some cost benefit. Also: The fourth "Terminator" movie comes out in 2009, and as "The Simpsons Movie" proved, there are promotional advantages to film-TV synergy.
"Knight Rider." The February movie performed well for NBC. Sources say the network is in talks with a showrunner who is familiar with NBC primetime, which suggests a regular series order is likely.
"Moonlight." CBS is playing wait-and-see with this Friday night show. The network is curious whether the show's fans return once it comes back from its strike-induced hiatus. But "Moonlight" fans are passionate, the show fits well into CBS' Friday night alternative crime block and an eventual pickup is probable.
"Jericho." CBS must make this decision quickly since only three episodes remain in Season 2 and the network has to choose Ending A or Ending B. Two conclusions to the season have been shot. One puts a narrative lid on the series (lest protesting fans pelt CBS executives with thousands of pounds of nuts again), the other more of a cliffhanger. CBS notes that the show gains from DVR viewership and online viewing, but after its performance the past two weeks, most doubt the citizens of "Jericho" will live to fight another season.
"Reaper." Critics loved the pilot of the CW's supernatural drama, then griped that the series lost its way. The show returns tonight against ABC's "Lost" and needs divine intervention to come back strong enough to make the network add it to its list of previously announced pickups.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Excellent...
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Jesus, some of these shows I haven't even heard of. What the fuck is "Moonlight" and "Reaper" anyway? Google time...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Reaper is yet another Joss Whedon show that will likely give studio execs the opportunity to screw him. I've never seen it (as I don't have the cable) but hear it's pretty good.
Now I'm off to go buy the new Serenity graphic novel and watch my Firefly box set.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No way is Reaper a Joss Whedon show. I know I only caught about 10 mins of the pilot, but I'm reasonably sure I'd recognise the Whedon influence. It felt more like a Kevin Smith movie, or one of those shows that appears on Sci-Fi for three episodes and disappears without a splash.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I thought for sure it was... but now that I look, I can't find any reference to him. Kevin Smith is listed as having directed one episode... hmmm... well, sorry for the mis-info.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
It IS a Kevin Smith show.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I just read the plot summary for Reaper and I have only one thing to say: BRILLIANT!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Last I heard, Whedon was doing what he'd swore he'd never do - develop another show for Fox. Mainly as a favour to Eliza Dushku who's starring in it.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I remember a while back, there was a website in which a guy looked at time travel movies (& TV?) and assessed the way they depicted time travel. I wonder if it's still extant, and what he thinks of T:TSCC.
Because I do like the show, but the way they seem to dodge between retconning and parallel-universalising is annoying me a bit. OK, they've said (or at least implied) this is a different timeline in which the events of T3 now cannot happen. But the clumsy retconning of dates (mainly as they apply to events of T2) is silly. There's no reason why they couldn't have T2 happening in 1994 and that afterwards SC & JC have mananged to hide undetected for 5 years, shacking up with paradmedic guy along the way. That would also allow suficient time for FBI interest to die down to the point when only one agent would maintain interest when he sees a missing-persons report and suspects it's Sarah Connor. And also for SC to think that just bolting to another state but not bothering to change her fake ID (and all because someone proposed marriage to her!) would be enough.
Because we're supposed to suspend disbelief of some issues (the non-resemblance of series Sarah, Kyle, and Silberman to their film equivalents, for example) while other glaring issues remain (like Kyle being alive before the war starts). It would be more interesting if they could admit that the timeline is being changed - that, really, the Kyle who came back is no longer the Kyle who is the brother of Derek who was sent back. Unless that's the point - silly as it seems to speculate on how a series might be intended to end when we're only one abortive half-season in - that they're getting towards: that (as said in T3) Judgement Day is inevitable, that they will never stop it no matter what. Perhaps they'll go for an ending like in that film The Butterfly Effect - that no matter what they can do, it'll always go wrong; so the only way for Ashton Kutcher in that film was to do something completely different, perhaps they'll realise in the end that the only way to avert the Rise of Skynet (and the subsequent war) is for JC to die - or maybe even never have been born. That would be an amazing way to end a show: for SC to have to decide between her son and the survival of a non-nuked humanity. I think she'd pick her son (and let him go on to become the saviour of a post-nuke humanity) while he'd prefer to sacrifice himself.
Incidentally, it completely slipped my mind for a minute why Cromartie actually got onto their trail in the Pilot, before I remembered that it was because Ellison added SC's alias of Sarah Reese to her file and it was detected by a Terminator sleeper agent! They shoud,get Owain Yeoman back to play another Cromartie model, Garrett Dillahunt really annoys me for some reason. He's a completely different body-shape for one thing.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Lee:
quote:That would be an amazing way to end a show: for SC to have to decide between her son and the survival of a non-nuked humanity. I think she'd pick her son (and let him go on to become the saviour of a post-nuke humanity) while he'd prefer to sacrifice himself.
What if it will be the other way around, he wants to live but she wants to kill him a la Dyson. This reminds me of a "Family Guy" scene;
Old Testament Abraham and Isaac walk back down the mountain again, Abraham stern and tightlipped. Isaac: "Ok what the hell was that about, dad?"
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I always got the impression that the reason Kyle is now alive before Judgement Day is because the events in T2 pushed Judgement Day back several years. It's the same Kyle, it's just his biorth now happened a few years before JD.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I always got the impression that the reason Kyle is now alive before Judgement Day is because the events in T2 pushed Judgement Day back several years. It's the same Kyle, it's just his biorth now happened a few years before JD.
...and that single post just made a whole lot of sense to me now.
Nim, I don't think Fox exec's would really appreciate the idea of a mother actually wanting to murder her son, even if it does spice the plot up. If they do go that route, it would probably be the original way.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(Fansites for shows that don't even exist yet are maybe a little weird.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I think she'd pick her son (and let him go on to become the saviour of a post-nuke humanity)..."
Now, I haven't seen T3, so forgive me if this is stupid, but : Have we seen any evidence that he will be a savior? We know he's managing to lead a fairly upbeat resistance in the future, and Skynet obviously thinks highly of him to want to eliminate him from existence. But, has anyone ever come back from the far future? Is there any indication that, regardless of Connor's efforts, humanity won't be wiped out in the end, anyway?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
And what's the point of wiping out humanity anyway? Were Skynet's goals ever noted past that? What does it want a mechanoid planet for anyway?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I always got the impression that the reason Kyle is now alive before Judgement Day is because the events in T2 pushed Judgement Day back several years. It's the same Kyle, it's just his biorth now happened a few years before JD.
That's about the shape of it. The difference being that in the original timeline Kyle & Derek's parents survived as Kyle was conceived several years after the original JD, however in this version it appears that Derek just takes hos brother and runs...so maybe right there is our explanation as to why John & Kyle look different; his parentage has shifted with the altered timeline...but that wouldn't account for Sarah or Silberman. Cute idea though.
As for the series not discussing the "alternate timelines" I imagine it's partly because they've known since T2 it's all become a bit fluid (no pun intended) and partly because they have other thing on their mind.
As far as the date shifting goes, I think it has more to do with the ages of the actors. Thomas Dekker is 20 (playing a high school student) and Lena Headey is 34 while on the other hand Linda Hamilton is 51 (though she was 24 when she played a 19 year old Sarah) and Edward Furlong is now 30 (but was 14 when playing a 10 year old.) Even when you take the 8 year jump into account there's still a bit of a gap.
So let's see if I can get this straight...
OLD old timeline 1984 - Sarah (19) Kyle (22) 1985 - John (0) 1994 - Sarah (29) John (10)* 1997 - Sarah (32) John (13)** 2007 - Kyle (0) 2029 - John (45) Kyle (22)***
NEW old timeline 1984 - Sarah (18) Kyle (23) John (0) 1997 - Sarah (31) John (10)* 1999 - Sarah (33) John (15)** 2002 - Kyle (0) 2005 - Sarah (39 - Deceased) John (22) 2011 - John (28) Kyle (8) 2014 - John (30 - celebrated with Derek, so after the disposal camps) Kyle (10) 2027 - John (43) Kyle (23) ***
* Events of T2 ** Judgement Day *** Tech-Com smash the Skynet defence grid & find the time displacement equipment.
So for the most part the only things that are significantly different are the timing of certain events like the bombing of cyberdyne, Judgement Day and the battle at Skynet's complex.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
"Is there any indication that, regardless of Connor's efforts, humanity won't be wiped out in the end, anyway?"
Well, in T1, Reese tells Sarah that they had basically won the war when he was sent back. Sending Arnie 1 and the t1000 back was basically their last ditch effort.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: And what's the point of wiping out humanity anyway? Were Skynet's goals ever noted past that? What does it want a mechanoid planet for anyway?
Ironically it was self defence. A military computer system suddenly becomes self aware so naturally they panic try to pull the plug. The military defence computer then reacts the only way it knows how and it all escalates from there. Like allot of good sci-fi the true villain of the piece is humanity, or just general hubris.
As for Skynet's long term plans, I imagine it knew humanity would always be a threat so it did everything it could to wipe us out. I doubt it's really thought much beyond that, after all the first thought of any living thing is it's own survival. The real question is, would the planet and the Universe in general be better off with Skynet running around or having us back in business.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
So hypothetically speaking, if SkyNet achieved its goal, would it then just mellow out? Would it try exploring what it means to be sentient? What about the bots? What would happen to them? And why don't we see humans from the far future? Gah, so many questions...
Also how exactly did it achieve sentience?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Probably the HOLMES IV theory. From Wiki:
"In the novel, Heinlein posits advanced Artificial Intelligence software for the consciousness of the character of Mike. Mike's awakening is a fictional example of the emergent theory of consciousness. Mike was originally installed to control the mass driver catapult mechanism and control the flight of pilot-less freighters; he was vastly under-utilised in this role however and so the Luna Authority gave him more and more tasks to do, and more and more resources (extra memory, processing units, neural networks etc) until one day he became so complex he simply "woke up". " Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
And following that, this is so weird. I go to Wikipedia to read up a bit on AI and stuff related to this thread, and before I can start typing stuff into the search field I spot "Today's Featured Article", and what is it?
quote:Storm botnet The Storm botnet is a botnet, a group of "zombie" computers controlled remotely. In September 2007, it was estimated to run on as many as 1 to 50 million computer systems linked by the Storm Worm, a Trojan horse that has spread through e-mail spam. Other sources have placed the size of the botnet to be around 250,000 to 1 million compromised systems.
The Storm botnet was first identified around January 2007, with the Storm worm at one point accounting for 8% of all malware on Microsoft Windows computers. The botnet reportedly is powerful enough as of September 2007 to force entire countries off the Internet, and is estimated to be able to potentially execute more instructions per second than some of the world's top supercomputers.
Used in a variety of criminal activities, the Storm botnet has displayed defensive behaviors, that indicated its controllers were actively protecting the botnet against attempts at tracking and disabling it. The botnet has specifically attacked the online operations of some security vendors and researchers who attempted to investigate the botnet.
These "controller" guys are playing with fire... :.)
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Meh, my crap detector is going off...
Posted by OverRon (Member # 2036) on :
If they should avert judgement, one thing I thought was that JC would still have to get the time travel working and send back terminators to try and kill himself and send Kyle back. He'd have to protect the timeline so that he would be born and that past events did happen, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to beat skynet.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: So hypothetically speaking, if SkyNet achieved its goal, would it then just mellow out? Would it try exploring what it means to be sentient? What about the bots? What would happen to them? And why don't we see humans from the far future? Gah, so many questions...
Also how exactly did it achieve sentience?
According to Uncle Bob:-
quote:In three years he creates a revolutionary type of microprocessor...In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet funding bill is passed. The system goes on-line on August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defence. Skynet begins to learn, at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 am, eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.
And according to Kyle:-
quote:Defense network computers. New... powerful... hooked into everything, trusted to run it all. They say it got smart, a new order of intelligence. Then it saw all people as a threat, not just the ones on the other side. Decided our fate in a microsecond: extermination.
Basically they created something with the potential to learn and adapt (vital for any bomber pilot) and it accumulated so much data that it gained self awareness. If it sounds silly, remember that we're not even sure how we became self aware or how any creature came into existence (theories abound of course) also a geometric rate is something that really sneaks up on you. I imagine by the time the Pentagon realised there was a problem it was already too late.
As for a virus gaining self awareness, unless all those PC's are operating in sync I wouldn't worry too much. Even then, with all the computer and supercomputers of the world working together it would be about as smart as a lobotomised cockroach that was mentally deficient to begin with.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Originally posted by OverRon: If they should avert judgement, one thing I thought was that JC would still have to get the time travel working and send back terminators to try and kill himself and send Kyle back. He'd have to protect the timeline so that he would be born and that past events did happen, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to beat skynet.
Actually, how do we know something like that isn't happening anyway? Kyle went back under the impression that they'd won and Skynet was effectively beaten. He may have been impressionable and prone to fancying his boss' mother, but I don't think he'd be easily fooled into such a viewpoint. He could have been lying to Sarah but what would be the point? Skynet's end explains why Derek & co. were freed. . .
The deleted scenes in T2 suggest that rather than destroying Skynet's time machine after sending Kyle back, John kept it to then send Uncle Bob back (and who knows what/who else?). The series has now ret-retconned that to, he destroyed Skynet's, but has now built his own. Did he use this one to send Uncle Bob back?
Tim: OK, maybe was overstating the case to have JC as saviour of humanity. The suggested future of T3 implies that may not be the case, that things aren't completely over and done with and some of Skynet still survives. Perhaps then Sarah's choices in the scenario I came up with are:
1. Stop Skynet destroying civilisation. 2. Allow/fail to prevent Skynet's actions, but ensure John survives them on order to destroy Skynet in turn; after that, who knows what happens to humanity but it's out of her hands at least. 3. (my hypothetical series ending) Allow John to die which gets them out of what is almost a time-loop in which Skynet becomes a threat. Do we have any evidence that TV execs in general, or Fox ones in particular, would be queasy about such a way to end a show?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
This is a bit of a long one, but here's the cut sequence from T2 as scripted.
quote:EXT. BATTLEFIELD - DAY
THE BATTLE. Human troops in desperate combat with the Machines for possession of the dead Earth. The humans are a ragtag guerrilla army, made up mostly of troops from Southern Hemisphere countries... Africans, South Americans, Australians. The survivors of the nuclear war between the Northern Hemisphere super-powers. This is the reality of the post-Apocalyptic world. North of the equator we all die.
We hear radio chatter in Spanish, interspersed with Swahili and other African languages. The occasional Aussie unit can be heard. The humans use RPG launchers, plasma-pulse battle rifles, and home-built armored personnel carriers.
Skynet's weapons consist of the massive ground HKs (tank- like robot weapon-platforms) flying HKs, medium weight four-legged gun-pods called Centurions, the humanoid Terminators in various forms (600, 700, and 800 series), and small, fast-crawling kamikaze units called Silverfish that look like 5' long chrome centipedes. The Silverfish snake into gun emplacements and explode.
SEQUENCE OF RAPID CUTS
Explosions! Beam-weapons firing like searing strobe-lights. Energy bolts crisscrossing frame. Hand-launched Stinger missiles blowing an aerial HK out of the sky. A Sapper team tries to disable a ground HK. They get riddled by its rapidly tracking gun turret.
A TEAM OF GUERRILLAS is being overrun by terminator endoskeletons in the ruins of a building. One by one, the soldiers fall in desperate hand-to-hand combat. One of the terminators looms over a wounded soldier, its battle rifle's barrel swinging down toward the guerrilla's head. The man stares defiantly into his death. Then... Suddenly, amazingly, the terminator stops, freezing in place...
Aerial HKs tilt slowly, out of control, and crash to the ground. All the terminators stand frozen, unmoving, like a bunch of toy soldiers.
The sudden silence takes the humans by surprise. They slowly emerge from their rat-warren emplacements and approach the frozen machines. We hear a voice speaking over a radio headset. It is filled with awed emotion.
HEADSET VOICE (O.S.) ... The Colorado Division confirms that Skynet has been destroyed... The war is over... I repeat, Skynet has been destroyed.
CAMERA TRACKS along the soldiers, bleeding, frostbitten, wrapped in rags... Valley Forge with better weapons. The wounded soldier in the ruins of the building cautiously approaches the chrome skeleton before him. He pushes against its chest with one finger. It topples with a crash and lies still. The soldier turns to his comrades with an idiot grin. Tears are streaming down his face. A mighty cheer goes up from the men and woman of the Last Army.
INT. TIME DISPLACEMENT COMPLEX - L.A. - LATER
A STAINLESS STEEL ELEVATOR SHAFT, going deep into the bowels of the earth. Tiny figures stand on an open platform which descends rapidly, becoming a speck.
ON THE PLATFORM. An imposing man, surrounded by a team of guerrilla officers stands on the platform as it descends. He is JOHN CONNOR. Forty-five years old. Chiseled. Stern. The left side of his face is heavily scarred. An impressive man, and clearly one forged in the furnace of a lifetime of war. The voice we heard continues now.
CONNOR (V.O.) My name is Connor. It's my job to lead these people. My mother, Sarah, gave me the job... and she's not exactly someone you say "no" to. I wish to God I had. I've sent thousands to their deaths. But let me tell you about death in this world. We piss on the bones of a billion people. Death's not what it used to be. If there is a God, his love and 45 cents will buy you coffee...
The platform reached its destination. Connor and the officers step off. Begin moving down a long corridor.
INT. CORRIDOR
This place was designed by machines for machines. The architecture is alien, without aesthetics, without even such human basics as doorknobs and lights. Connor leads the team past more frozen terminator endoskeletons, deactivated like the ones on the surface.
CONNOR (V.O.) All these machines were controlled by a kind of God, a low-rent self- appointed God called Skynet. Skynet was a supercomputer built for strategic defense back in the Nineties. Today we destroyed it in its fortress in the Colorado Rockies, and all its toys stopped...
As they continue on, they pass other teams of guerrilla soldiers.
CONNOR (V.O.) This place is one of Skynet's toys. A machine built by machines.It is like nothing which has ever existed before... the first tactical time weapon. Before today, no human had seen this place, but I've been here in my dreams many times. All my life I've tried to imagine what it would look like. Now I'm actually here...
INT. TIME DISPLACEMENT CHAMBER
Vault-like doors open. Connor strides through with authority and purpose. He is saluted smartly by everyone he encounters, though he wears no insignia of rank.
There is a bustle of hurried activity here. The chamber is the size of a high-school gym and consist totally of machine surfaces. Nothing in the design makes any sense. We can't tell what anything does. It is a technology we cannot imagine.
CONNOR (V.O.) Skynet, being almost infinitely smart, was also infinitely tricky. It knew it was losing, so it thought of a way to rig the game...
Technicians have pulled up floor panels and tapped directly into cabling of the machine, using portable terminals that they have wheeled in. Many of the soldiers in this war against machines are technical specialists... you have to fight fire with fire.
CONNOR (V.O.) And now, though we've won the war, there is still one battle left to fight. The most important one. It will be fought in the past, almost four decades ago... before all this began... See, the only problem with time travel is... it ain't over even when it's over.
At the far end of the room, a young soldier stands surrounded by a team of technicians. KYLE REESE. Sarah Connor's defender, teacher, and lover in the first film. A simple soldier who is about to walk point-blank into the gaping maw of history. At the moment, he is the center of activity. As he finishes stripping off his battle uniform, the techs begin smearing his body with a conductive so the time-field will follow his outline.
Reese looks around at all the activity. Battle and the prospect of death have never scared him. But the importance of what he is about to do terrifies him.
The techs move aside and suddenly John Connor is standing beside him. Connor... their grim messiah. Their leader. He fixes Reese with an intense gaze. There is so much he wants to say, but cannot bring himself to. Finally Reese speaks.
REESE Did you know I'd be the one who volunteered?
Connor nods.
CONNOR I've always known. Sarah told me.
Reese nods. Suddenly understanding everything.
REESE That's why you moved me to your unit? Kept me so close.
Connor shrugs enigmatically. One of the techs interrupts them
TECH We're ready, Sergeant.
THREE ENORMOUS CHROME RINGS, one inside the other, are suspended in a circular hole in the center of the room's floor. John and Reese approach them.
Reese steps onto the first ring. It bobs under his weight. We see that the rings are freely floating in a magnetic field. Reese steps to the inner ring and looks into the hole. A vast echoing darkness below. He looks back at John. The messiah is waiting for him to step into the bottomless pit.
CONNOR Sometimes you have to put your faith in the machine.
Reese takes a breath, then steps into open space and is buoyed up by an unseen field of force. He floats in the middle of the rings. The techs start the time displacement sequence.
THE RINGS BEGIN TO MOVE, slowly rotating around each other on different axis like some complex gyroscope.
THE FLOOR BEGINS TO SPLIT OPEN, like wedges in a pie which begin to pull back from the center. The rings are spinning faster now, suspended in space in the middle of the receding floor wedges. The rings begin to descend.
JOHN AND REESE LOCK EYES as they move apart. Reese is dropping into an unbelievably vast circular space... the time-field generator. John watches him go, until Reese is a tiny figure. The rings are spinning so rapidly now they almost disappear, becoming a sphere of whirling steel. Technicians pull John back from the edge.
LIGHTNING BEGINS TO ARC across the vast room below. A huge charge of energy is building up. Everyone takes cover behind blast walls they have set up. They put on goggles like they used to do at A-bomb tests. This is going to be big.
The chamber below has become a Hell of energy with Reese at its center. The drone and crackle of the machines builds to thunder, there is a BLINDING FLASH OF LIGHT!
When the glare fades the floating rings are empty. They slow to a stop, seared and smoking. Reese is gone.
FUENTES, one of the officers, turns to Connor.
FUENTES Now what happens to Reese? I mean, what did happen?
Connor's gaze seems far away from this time and place.
CONNOR He accomplishes his mission and in doing so, he dies.
FUENTES He is a good soldier.
Connor solemnly nods. CONNOR Yes... He's also my father.
FUENTES Mother of God!
Fuentes stares at Conner in amazement. He has just been given a glimpse into his leader's private Hell. Connor turns from the smoking chamber. He seems suddenly ten years old as his features drain of strength, shoulders sagging.
Fuentes shouts an order to a waiting Sapper team.
FUENTES Sapper team. Set your charges. Let's blow this place back to Hell.
Connor shakes his head no. Mustering his strength.
CONNOR Not yet. There's one more thing we have to do.
TIGHT ON MASSIVE DOORS OF STEEL, covered with a thin sheet of ice. Locking bolts slam back. Ice shatters like glass as the doors begin to open. We are in--
INT. COLD STORAGE FACILITY
Connor walks into the darkness, followed by a few technicians. They are in a vault-like cold-storage room. Hanging in steel racks from ceiling tracks are hundreds of what appear to be men. They are in rows of ten. Within each row, each of the bodies are absolutely identical.
Connor signals the techs to remain by the door and walks out among the dark bodies. They are UNACTIVATED TERMINATORS. He stops at a row in which they are identical to the terminator which was sent to kill Sarah (the Arnold model).
He walks to the end of the row. There is one empty rack. He faces the terminator in the next rack. Its eyes are closed. John seems distant as he studies that face. Fuentes enters the chamber, pushing past the technicians. Calls for his leader in the darkness.
FUENTES John?... John?...
TIGHT ON CONNOR, his face pensive as Fuentes calls his name. Fuentes voice slowly dissolves to ANOTHER VOICE. A woman's. Echoing as though from a great distance...
So it's implied that he blew the place after he sent back Uncle Bob. From SCC we can presume that before blowing the place they grabbed as much tech as they could, including Terminators, the plans and vital components to the time displacement equipment. Mind you the time machine as James Cameron originally describes it is much more elaborate than the ones in SCC so there's some room for interpretation.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Yeah, total utter revival, but when does this show come one again? I miss it...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
The phenomenon has been endlessly researched without coming to any firm conclusions, but I gather some controversial (and wildly disputed) theories suggest new seasons of TV shows show a strong tendency to start in the Autumn.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Ah, the Autumnal Equinox Photonic Flux Theory of TV Programming and Hem Lengths (Northern Hemisphere).
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
That's the one!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
This is not entirely correct. Some seasons start at the midseason in January or February, replacing the falltime shows that start strongly and proceed to suck ass. Scrubs is one such success that continues to replace awful shows at the midseason.
Mark
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The future is saved by Skynet's core program havinga Vista platform.
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