So I guess the on-off switch on the stones base "wipes [your] imprint" so that you aren't linked to it anymore. So basically all they've really figured out is how to wipe them.
I bet Franklin ascended.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
That would be hot. Hadn't thought of that. Figured he just found another way to a different part of the ship or something.
Eli, Chloe and Scott are trapped! Trapped off the ship! And the ship went to hyperspace without them! And it's--wait no nevermind. Something else is happening now. Found that a little jarring.
I did like the drama of a communications stone saboteur, and the pursuant action. I liked James freaking out about inhabiting a quadriplegic and then not being able to handle it, but over all I'm not sure how I feel about how they dealt with that. DS9 had that episode with Julian's hoverbarbie friend, and while that had a fair bit of silliness, it did have Julian trying to "fix" her and that was interesting.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'd say trying to magically fix a quadriplegic would be a just tad condescending. Besides it's about how her partner deals with it so much as she does.
I assume Eli, Chloe and Scott just made their way to the nearest gate to the edge of the galaxy on the theory that was the best place to be of they got Destiny turned around. The ship must have still been in range so when they dropped out of FTL they popped back up on the remote. I further assume the reason the aliens turned up there was precisely because it was the last gate in range and they sabotaged the drives to give them time to figure out how to dial the Stargate and get aboard.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I assume Eli, Chloe and Scott just made their way to the nearest gate to the edge of the galaxy on the theory that was the best place to be of they got Destiny turned around. The ship must have still been in range so when they dropped out of FTL they popped back up on the remote."
Well, yes, that's exactly what happened. The problem is that it seems like the writers went through all that dramatic set-up, and then said "Y'know, on second thought, let's not do that story at all. Just stick them back on the ship, and we'll do something else entirely."
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I'd say trying to magically fix a quadriplegic would be a just tad condescending. Besides it's about how her partner deals with it so much as she does.
I just meant that in thinking back about sci-fi dealing with people with handicaps, Julian's response in trying to "fix" Melora was shown to be be exactly that: condescending, misguided and insensitive. Super-brilliant, super-eager Julian was, in this instance, totally wrong. Which I thought was maybe kind of brave, and made an important point.
SG:Universe didn't go that route, but I thought it stuck its neck out with James's revulsion. Turns out I like that they handled it. I'm just not sure how I feel about how they went on to play things out with Camille and her gf. That whole thing was kind of weird and I felt like I missed something with Camille freaking out when her gf locked her keys in the car.
Meanwhile the body-hopping, quadriliberated hyperspace expert sees this as her once-in-a-lifetime chance to come at Rush in Camille's lesbian body. Which despite the kooky circumstance, does seem plausible (Eli's reaction: "Rush?" was perfect), I'm just not sure what it says and whether I like it.
It maybe bears mentioning, that this was presumably the episode which garnered suchcontroversy with that casting sheet before the show ever aired.
As for Eli, Scott and Chloe making it back, it wasn't that it wasn't plausible. Just that it was a wasted opportunity for drama that kinda fizzled away when they walked through the gate. Eli's comment about how the aliens would now have a remote had they not made it back to Destiny was telling. I think it was night on the planet we see through the kino, but was that the same planet we saw them on before? I just assumed they were already at the galaxy's edge at the end of the last episode, but did they move farther out in the ring system as Rev suggests?
Also, does this mean Destiny is now in Hyper-super-luminal-different-from-other-hyperspace flight to an entirely different galaxy?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah, I think it was stated the ship en route to another galaxy.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: I bet Franklin ascended.
That seems a bit too obvious. Although that does beg the question of whether an ascended Franklin would be able to do what he pleased. Do the Alterans/Lanteans have jurisdiction way out there?
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah, I think it was stated the ship en route to another galaxy.
Indeed. There were some gorgeous shots of Destiny with one galaxy ahead and the other behind.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
It's kinda reminiscent of the Remastered Version of "By Any Other Name" which also featured nice shots of the Enterprise traveling between galaxies.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Re: Eli and co., I got the impression that they were staying on the planet where we last saw them, because that was the last gate at the edge of the galaxy before the ship left the vicinity.
(Of coursse, a galaxy doesn't have such a clearly defined edge, no matter what it looks like in the visible spectrum.)
Now I'm curious to know what's the range of the Destiny's Stargates... And that seems to imply that they might not be able to make it back home via the gate on the ship, either...
And the next question: are the blue aliens intergalactic travelers, too? They seem to be able to keep up with the ship.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I just meant that in thinking back about sci-fi dealing with people with handicaps, Julian's response in trying to 'fix' Melora was shown to be be exactly that: condescending, misguided and insensitive. Super-brilliant, super-eager Julian was, in this instance, totally wrong. Which I thought was maybe kind of brave, and made an important point."
Actually, I've been rewatching DS9, and I just happened to watch that episode a couple days ago. That's not how it was portrayed at all. Melora herself was as eager for the treatment as Julian was about it. It wasn't one of those whole "my disability isn't really a disability and I can't be 'fixed'" sort of shows. It was more like "yes, please fix me ; wait, I'll never be able to go to my homeworld again? ; damn, never mind, then".
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Also, a small aside, if Rush couldn't fix her when they were on Earth together all that time, I don't see how he could fix her when her body was several hundred million lightyears away, so they couldn't really have done a 'fixit' plot anyway.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Just re-watched the DS9 ep. Yeah it was much more of a Little Mermaid (referenced in the episode) story than the Pygmalion meets Frankenstein I'd been remembering. I think we did see a Doctor Bashir pressing fairly hard for the treatment, whereas Melora, though certainly participating quite willfully, well 'eager' is maybe overstating it. You're right though, Bashir was certainly much more gentle than I'd recalled once she started expressing reluctance about the treatment.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Also, a small aside, if Rush couldn't fix her when they were on Earth together all that time, I don't see how he could fix her when her body was several hundred million lightyears away, so they couldn't really have done a 'fixit' plot anyway.
Wasn't saying at all that there should or could have been a fix it kind of plot. Was more drawing parallels at the attitude of the characters/series towards the handi-capable. I felt like when Melora finally decided not to continue the treatments which would allow her to walk in normal gravity not for any sort of health or science-y reasons, but because this would fundamentally change the person she is, that this was maybe a poignant way of making a statement about the perspective of the person in the chair and how society looks at that person.
In SG:U, I'm less certain what (if anything) they were saying. I felt that having an arguably tough, soldier girl not being able to handle even a few moments in a handicapped body, to later feel shame and remorse about the incident, was an interesting thing for the show to do. But beyond that-- with Camille inhabiting her paralyzed body, with that person suddenly able to move and groove-- I was just kind of curious to hear what other people think/feel. Were they saying something there? Did you relate to any of that? Was it just something that happened on a show that sometimes has spaceships (PEW! PEW! KABOOM!)?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I thought it was a great moment. A lot of times a person can be confident about tackling some problem ("how hard can it be?") only to find out that it's completely unlike what they expected.
And then James felt like avoiding her later on... It was a provocative idea.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
bX: Honestly, I feel it's the latter - the thing on a show with spaceships . But that's just because Universe isn't particularly impressing me so far.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by bX: It maybe bears mentioning, that this was presumably the episode which garnered suchcontroversy with that casting sheet before the show ever aired.
Did these people kick up as much fuss when she bodyswapped with some airforce or marine type to go home and dyke it out with her girlfriend? I doubt it. It sort of reminds me of a minor bit of fuss that was kicked up a few years ago when BSG showed a black (cylon) man lead around on a stick by a collar. The fact that an Asian woman had received the same treatment and that a white woman had been gang raped to the point of insanity was entierly besides the point. Some people just have a funny idea of what "offensive" actually means.
Incidentally, one of the new kinosodes confirms there's a formal permission form for the swappies.
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: I thought it was a great moment. A lot of times a person can be confident about tackling some problem ("how hard can it be?") only to find out that it's completely unlike what they expected.
And then James felt like avoiding her later on... It was a provocative idea.
I liked that they went there to. You have this tough as nails soldier unable to deal with something this scrawny little geek deals with every second of every day and she's so ashamed that she baulked she can't even make eye contact with the girl, afterwards.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Also, a small aside, if Rush couldn't fix her when they were on Earth together all that time, I don't see how he could fix her when her body was several hundred million lightyears away, so they couldn't really have done a 'fixit' plot anyway.
Plus of course the fact that Rush isn't that kind of doctor.
quote: That seems a bit too obvious. Although that does beg the question of whether an ascended Franklin would be able to do what he pleased. Do the Alterans/Lanteans have jurisdiction way out there?
I've been suspecting for some time now that there's already a conscious element to Destiny, either AI, an Alterans's brain cybernetically plugged in somewhere or some ascended being nudging things along. As for the limit of their reach, I don't think they have any. With the Ori gone it's not like they have to hide out in the Milky way/Pegasus neighbourhood anymore. Oh and I don't thing he's ascended. I imagine the temperature drop was an earlier more primitive version of the stasis pods. As for where the body went, perhaps it was moved to an unseen storage facility.
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
Yeah, I have to admit that I don't see what the fuss is with the lesbian aspect of the bodyswap (how often do you get to write that sentence down?). The person inhabiting the body was straight, and had feelings for Rush and wanted to sleep with him. Similarly, the person inhabiting the body back on Earth happened to be a lesbian and she wanted to go and spend time with her partner. Again, not something I have an issue with. The person (as in the intelligence, personality, mind, soul, whatever you call it) is separate from the body during the swap and I don't think that the show is guilty of being offensive with this one.
The casting sheet was insensitive with the "useless" comment. The point could have been made with a great deal more care.
If there is a conscious will at work in Destiny, of whatever form, why wouldn't it try to make contact with the crew? Or could that be what it's trying to do through Franklin?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:If there is a conscious will at work in Destiny, of whatever form, why wouldn't it try to make contact with the crew? Or could that be what it's trying to do through Franklin?
Well if it's an ascended being then he/she/they probably wouldn't try to communicate; they're like that. As far as the other options go, I suppose it's possible that if there is a facility for ship-to-crew communications then it could be either damaged, inaccessible or as you postulate, the chair could be it and a human brain can't cope with it the way a Altaran brain could. Hence Franklin's condition. On the other hand there's the possibility that the ship wasn't meant to have an AI but somehow developed one on it's own and therefore doesn't know how to communicate with the slow, squishy organic things, but it's aware of them and their needs and is doing it's best. Might even be the reason why Destiny was never used, sort of a 'Destination Void' type scenario perhaps. The ancients somehow found out the ship had grown a mind of it's own and didn't want to run the risk of it turning out to be nasty (like the replicators) and left it well alone? But I'm just wildly speculating now.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm not sure I buy the ascension idea. I thought the whole premise of the Destiny in the first place was that they launched it before they started their work on ascension? Why would they build such a feature in to the ship anyway?
I think it's more a precursor to the control chair, and the body+chair got moved into cold storage. (Pardon the pun.)
But there's definitely some sort of AI at work... After all, we saw Daniel talking to Rush last week, and that was either Rush's subconscious figuring it out on its own, or else the ship was trying to give him a hint.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I don't think he ascended either. They didn't even toy with techno-induced ascension until around the time of the original Wraith war. The Destiny, if it's Stargate really does pre-date the milky-way gates probably dates back to just after the Alterans arrived at Tkarra (sp?). Well, actually since it was said to have been launched from Earth it was probably a while after that, but still relatively early days, before they started seeding the 2.0 gate network or started terraforming (or is is Celestisforming?) the known universe with pine trees.
As for "Jackson's" input, it was rather ambiguous so I can see it going either way.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I'm not suggesting the technology was intended to cause ascension, only that perhaps it did. I can't recall if they mentioned when the Alterans began to seek ascension; maybe the first few ascended did so as a result of a sudden enlightenment from having tons of knowledge dumped in their brains by prototype control chairs. And now who's speculating wildly...
Dakara is what you're looking for, Rev.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
^Yeah that was it, the one with the cross country motor race from Paris.
As for the ascension idea, I don't see how getting your brains scrambled by an overloaded digital copy of "intergalactic travel for dummies" drilled into your skull is likely to induce one into a hight state of being. The 2.0 model may have given O'Neill magical healing abilities but at not point was it said that he was in danger of becoming a glowy squid thing. On top of that I'm pretty sure it's established they didn't even start looking into ascension until the latter part of the Wraith war but didn't crack it until they abandoned Atlantis and fled back to the Milky-way after the Plague was gone, so it was within the last 10,000 years or so. WAY after Destiny was launched.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Well, I have a huge problem with ascension in general; the way you get there by "increasing your brain activity." Seems like another format of the "we only use 10% of our brains" nonsense. So if they're going to be that unscientific about it, maybe it is just a matter of knowing a whole lot of stuff. I don't think it'd make sense, I just thought maybe it was something they might do.
Gonna go watch the last ep now so I can see how wrong I was about this Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think the increased brain activity is more a symptom of approaching ascension than a cause. Doesn't mean ascension is plausible of course, but it's the kind of sci-fi concept that's meant to be a little beyond what we know...not unlike hyperspace travel, wormholes, alternate universes and anti-gravity. So it's hardly out of place on the show.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
That's an interesting take. I also just remembered how Rodney was going to either ascend or die (in "Tao of Rodney"); maybe it is indeed a symptom, and a lethal one. After all, using all your brain at once is pretty much a grand mal seizure, right?
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. But that's just because Universe isn't particularly impressing me so far.