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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raw Cadet: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [qb] ANd yet, as a Catholic, you believe that the Pope (a failable man like any other) can somehow lessen the time you'll spend in Purgatory if you quit smoking? I'm not baiting you: I just cant fathom it any more than I can the ralieans. Divine power/wisdom in the hands of a single man is easily disproved by their own failings and frailties. If the pontiff were really "in" with God that way (and thus infailable) it would at least explain why it took the church so long to aknowledge that the Earth revolves around the sun.... And that some of their priests are sexual predators. [/qb][/QUOTE]The Pope (himself, personally) cannot "lessen the time [I'll] spend in purgatory." Only God can do that. As a Catholic, what I believe is the Church and the Pope can act as agents of God. If you will indulge me, I elaborate. I believe heaven, whatever it is, is perfect. I am not perfect. Thus, before I enter perfection I believe I need to be "cleansed" of my imperfections. Now, if you will grant smoking is a harmful activity, and I hope you will, then whatever part of my soul that led me to smoke must be "cleansed" before entering heaven. However, what if I gave up smoking before I died because I realized it was wrong. Well, then, my soul will need that much less cleansing in purgatory. Thus, indulgences can be a given; you do not neccessarily need the middle man. However, if the Pope is so inspired, he may make what is a given indulgence explicit in order to inspire normally un-purgatory pondering Catholics (and others) to quite smoking. I hope I have made some sense. It is also important for me to state the Church does not believe the Pope is divine, has divine power(s), or is completely infallible. As a Catholic I believe the Pope is (one of) God's representatives on Earth, chosen through a divinely inspired meeting of Church leaders [Cardinals]. I will be the first to grant that it is patently obvious the above described ideal has not always been the case; politics has obviously, unfortunately, played a part in the selection of past popes. After all, as I think we all agree, no man is perfect. Where the Pope is infallible is in matters regarding the Catholic Church, the faith. And that does not mean if he opens his mouth and what comes out includes something religious what he has just said is infallible. For example, the Church's official stance on homosexual-ity/-orientation is that it is not a choice. I believe the Pope has been quoted as saying he thinks homosexual-ity/-orientation is a sickness, that is, he views it in a negative light, but he still thinks it is not a choice. However, he has never said his (negative) opinion on homosexual-ity/-orientation is infallible. Thus, I agree with the Church and the Pope that homosexual-ity/-orientation is not a choice, however, I do not view it in a negative light, and there is nothing "wrong" in the eyes of the Church with my view. The Pope has to explicitly state when he is speaking as the infallible head of the Church. It rarely happens. Therefore, I do not think a pope's imperfections, if he is truly the divinely inspired head of the Church, are proof that he is not infallible in matters regarding the Church. Jason, I get the feeling this all strikes you as silly. However, I hope the length and way at which I have discussed this with you shows I truly believe in what I have written, and not just in a mindless sheep way, but in a way that shows at least some elementary, rudimentary understanding of what indeed I do believe. And if you do view Catholics and Raelians (and I am not saying you do) on the same level thank you at least for discussing in a :) and a ;) manner, rather than in a :rolleyes: manner. :) [/QB][/QUOTE]
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