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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: [QB] Mucus, [QUOTE]I might even note that your own comparison for B5's stories AND special effects was from ST. [/QUOTE]I never said that I didn't compare Trek to B5, but it should be noted that I compared TOS, which had crappy special effects but generally good stories. B5 has crappy special effects combined with crappy stories. That makes for a loser in my eyes. [QUOTE]If your response is correct, you're as guilty of "Jimmy has his shirt untucked" as I am. [/QUOTE]I attacked B5 because I think if you hold it up as all thats good with television (sci-fi or otherwise) you're completely off your rocker. I usually bash B5 whenever I see it mentioned in a thread, and I think if you examined my posts on the subject, you'd see that very rarely is Trek involved in my response, or my reason in posting. You, on the other hand, bashed Trek deliberately because of my bash of B5. So, no, I don't think its the same (I bash B5 because it sucks and I do so at every given opportunity). [QUOTE]When did I say that? If you're going to quote me, at least have the quote have something to do with what you're saying. You're right, I did compare ST with B5 (and so did you). Unfortunately, thats also ALL I did. [/QUOTE]No, what you did was more akin to "so what if B5 is unoriginal, so is Star Trek, so B5 is less unoriginal than Star Trek so there." And what you said was: [QUOTE]It seriously makes no sense, people who actually read science fiction have no difficulty expressing appreciation for more than one SF author. You don't see Clarke fans complaining that Asimov books never feature monoliths, Asimov fans complaining that Dune doesn't have any robots, or etc. Yet an absurd number of ST/SW fans always make the same complaints when confronted with real SF, thats what all of your complaints ultimately boil down to.[/QUOTE]And to me, this reads alot like, "Snay you fool it's science-fiction, and if you like Trek, you probably like sci-fi, so you should like B5 by default, or at the very least you shouldn't bash science-fiction shows because 'people who actually read science fiction have no difficulty expressing appreciation for more than one SF author.'" The problem, of course, is that you assume the reason I dislike B5 is because it is not Star Trek. This is an assumption that is in error. I do not like Babylon 5 because its a horrible television show for the reasons I've listed above. No where in the reasons is "because it is not Star Trek." [QUOTE]However, even with the lack of competition, I would hardly say that B5 is "shit" for drama. As TimeLord pointed out, at least some portion of the TV community doesn't think so. You can see the link for some of my (and other, more eloquent posts) reasons.[/QUOTE]Hey, you wanna know something? My opinions are not objective, they're subjective. I don't like Babylon 5 because I think it fucking sucks. I don't care how many awards it gets, it's totally lame in my opinion. I'm not going to change my opinion because a bunch of people with apparently no taste for character depth and no appreciation for good writing enjoy the CGI or what-have-you (I dunno, maybe they just turn it off when B5 comes on). If a show can't make you believe the characters are real, it has failed. [QUOTE]What I did say was that fans of ST and SW often have extreme tunnel vision, limiting their enjoyment of any other TV science fiction. Point out that you don't enjoy ST, and that you really enjoy DS9...thats just splitting hairs now.[/QUOTE]Not really. You accused me of being a "deep" Trek fan. I'm not. I enjoy one Trek show: Deep Space Nine. For a variety of reasons (mostly relating to school and work) I've missed most of Enterprise's run, so its a bit late for me to get involved in that show. I hated Voyager. I liked TNG, but DS9 -- now that was a drama, regardless of the genre. Back to something you posted earlier -- "However, if you really wanted drama...why not watch...well, drama?" Serious fiction is always going to be a drama. You're paying too much attention to genre types -- sci-fi, cop show, lawyer show, etc. If you're watching a television show that takes itself seriously (ala "Homicide" over a show that doesn't, "Friends") then you're watching a drama. Sci-fi drama, cop-show drama ... as much as I detest those little Superstation "We Know Drama" (or is it TBS?) bits, they're right. Most people don't watch "Star Trek" for the sets, they don't watch "Babylon 5" for the special effects, they watch the show because they find (even if I disagree with them and think they have holes in their head) believable characters, and the interaction between the believable characters and in response to the fictional world they live in and the fictionalized situations they find themselves in. Personally, I don't believe Babylon 5 has those elements. But I do believe Babylon 5, and most Sci-Fi series, are dramas. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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