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Donald Varley: Competent Captain or reckless moron?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: [QB] [QUOTE]I say that because Picard and riker said they knew nothing about the Romulan's or their abilities ("The Neutral Zone") just a few weeks (or months) earlier. Nobody ever said they knew anything about the Romulans looking for Iconia or keeping tabs on Varley's investigations. Iconia was there for centuries without the Romulans stumbeling onto it so what was Varley's rush? He understood there was a POTENTIAL threat but had NO evidence that there was anything there at all.[/QUOTE]And it was there for centuries before the Federation found out about it. And who is to say that the Romulans wouldn't find it the next week? The Romulans are a cultured people, it's not as head-scratching for them to be doing archeological digs on worlds within their control as it would be for Klingons to do the same. There's an old theory about myths that I picked up in, I think, "Relics" (the book turned into a bad movie) ... it has to do with plotting the reporting sightings of the myth, and then plotting a center point. The idea is that if you're looking for a vampire or monster or what have you, that it will most likely be located in the center of the sightings. Couldn't the same be true of worlds with Iconian artifacts? That they radiate away from the homeworld, and therefore that planets with Romulan space could hold the same clues that revealed to Varley the planet's location? I mean, with the gateways, this doesn't even have to apply, it just adds a bit more urgency considering Iconia was about halfway between the two powers. You're right, he had no evidence. But that potential threat was all he needed to act. [QUOTE]Agreed on all counts but there was no rush to violate treaty or any excuse not to notify command: you're assuming the Romulans were close to discovering Iconia but if they had'nt done so after a century of the Zone being there, I doubt they'd just get lucky. Varley tipped his hand to them that something of intrest was there by violating the zone.[/QUOTE]I disagree. Regardless of whether or not the Romulans were aware of or were close to being aware of the location of Iconia, once you figure out "Hey, there's a weapon in easy reach of the Romulans which could enable them to destroy the Federation", it's not exactly time to sit around for a month while the Federation Council mediates on how to proceed. You've been granted the authority to command a starship by Starfleet, which means very little direct oversight from Command, and a great deal of freedom to proceed on your own authority. Varley decided that the risk was great enough to proceed immediately, and I agree. [QUOTE]Well for starters I'd have filed a report (scrambled to prevent eavesdropping, of course) to starfleet command. That would have taken what, ten minutes? [/QUOTE]Yeah, but we know that even in the 24th Century, communications with starships on the Neutral Zone with Command isn't instintaneous. Varley could've sent out a subspace message, or perhaps a probe to a nearby starbase, "This is Varley. Have possibly located Iconia in Neutral Zone. Proceeding to verify and if true, destroy any advanced technology. I assume full responsibility for entering the Neutral Zone. Best, - Donald." Then we have to assume that the message is recieved by Starfleet, and relayed back to Picard -- "Hey, listen, Donald thinks he found Iconia and maybe Santa Clause, keep an eye out for him, eh?" -- [b]before[/b] Varley contacts Picard "Hey, Jean-Luc, remember those Orion slave girls back in our Academy Days? Hahahah. Oh, reason I called - I'm in the Neutral Zone, and, er, could use your help. Thanks dude!" We have no evidence that Varley didn't relay his intentions to Starfleet Command, all we know is that Picard was never informed of this. And really, if Varley had chatted with the mission about Admiral Neyechev, do you really think Starfleet Command would've blabbed to all its starships and starbases on the Zone, "Hey, the Yamato went into the Neutral Zone, wave hi." With such a delicate mission, it's not unlikely that Command might've kept a wrap on it - what would the Romulans' reaction had been if Federation starships suddenly started mobilizing (in response to a feared retaliation of the Yamato's entry into the NZ), coupled with seeing a Galaxy-Class starship flying around the Zone. [QUOTE]I think he knew starfleet would not risk a war on such circumstantial evidence and so he went in with no backup. Picard would not have made that mistake.[/QUOTE]And as we've seen, Starship Captain often take matters into their own hands for what they perceive to be the greater good. The best example is probably Sisko, who in "The Search pt. II" believed that the Federation was about to hand the Dominion a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant, and if it had been reality, he would have given his life to close the wormhole and save the Federation. Varley's actions were little different (except he wasn't having his mind fooled by a Dominion mind-fooling machine). As for Picard not "making that mistake" - how many times has Picard ignored his own orders? Let's see, in "First Contact" he breaks off the Neutral Zone patrol, and in "Insurrection" he, well, leads an insurrection against the Federation (in a manner of speaking). You're right - Picard wouldn't have made that mistake, because it wasn't a mistake. It was the correct course of action. [QUOTE]His evidence was NOT "dead on": he had nothing but a hunch that turned out to be right on this one occasion: no diffrent than Ben Maxwell's hunch the Cardassians were building up weapons again. While correct, Starfleet does not take such provicative actions without clearance from Command.[/QUOTE]Hold on here. Maxwell wasn't going around beaming down intelligence teams and taking photos of Cardassian instillations proving they were re-arming: he was attacking and destroying Cardassian ships for no real gain except to provoke a war for revenge against those who killed his family. Varley wasn't motivated by revenge, he was motivated by concern for the citizens of the Federation that he had taken an oath to defend. [QUOTE]Saved the Federation? How? He didint destroy the Iconian Tech: Jean Luc did that and could have done that without the Yamato's loss if only Varley had contacted him before his ship was crippled.[/QUOTE]Oh please. Is Jean-Luc in the habit of chit-chatting with his buddy on the Desoto before he decided to abandon whatever mission the Enterprise is on before pursuing whatever it is he wants to pursue? Of course not. Is Varley supposed to have an epiphany: "Gosh, I might be scanned by an Iconian probe and have my ship fall apart from under me, should contact Jean-Luc before proceeding." And kindly remember that if not for Varley pursuing this matter, the tech wouldn't have been destroyed at all. Picard finished what Varley started, and if Varley hadn't started it, the Romulans may well have defeated the Federation. [QUOTE]Basic logic says otherwise. Iconia was not in danger of discovery by the Romulans, based on onscreen dialogue, until they reacted to Yamato's entering the zone and obviously looking for something.[/QUOTE]And up until Varley figured out where Iconia was, the same held true for the Federation. But the second one of 'em figures out where the planet is, how long could it be until the other side figures it out? Probably not too long. Besides, what are the Romulans going to do in response to a ship entering the Zone (and I might add, let's not forget THEY had a ship prowling around the same area at the same time too ... coincidence? Hmmmm)? [QUOTE]The diffrence is that the Romulans ALWAYS provoked a response to see what (if anything) their opponent will do. (according to Data in "Data's Day") whereas the Federation always forgives minor incursions into their territory with no reprecussions. Even with the Dominion flooding into the Alpha quadrant, the Federation did nothing for weeks. [/QUOTE]If a Federation starship entering the Zone was reason for war, then certainly when Picard came storming through with KLINGON ships as back-up, Tomalack would not have stood down so easily. Sure, he might've died, but it would have been a glorious start to a new Romulan campaign against the Federation. Let's face it: the Romulans aren't going to go to war with anyone over a single ship. The Dominion blew up HOW MANY of their ships and crews, and still it took Sisko framing the Dominion for the assassination of a senator before they went to war? It's not something they'd do lightly, more probably, they'd use the Yamato's entry as a way to spawn-off an "incident" and get some good reactions for laughs and jollies. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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