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$$ Consequences of the movie on the original Trek universe [Spoilers]
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardian 2000: [QB] I refer to the Prime Trek timeline of TOS, TNG, et cetera, the Black Hole timeline in which the Narada emerges in 2233 and a Spock emerges in 2258, and finally leave open the possibility of a Supernova timeline distinct from the Prime one as the origin for the Black Hole timeline incursions from 2387. Dates are given as BH 2258 (Vulcan goes boom in the Black Hole timeline), PT 2258 (four years after "The Cage" in the Prime Trek timeline), or SN 2258 (which could be something else entirely). The reason I have a Supernova timeline is because I simply do not think the old Spock is our Spock: 1. Romulans from the Prime timeline have had ridges since at least the 2100s. (And tattoos have never been observed as a Romulan normal trait, even among the civilians.) Nero and the gang do not have ridges. Ergo they are not our Romulans. 2. Even in the Supernova timeline, they give stardates just like they do in BH 2233, a modified timeline. *** 3. Supernova Spock is a pussy. He surrenders at the drop of a hat, doesn't even care to try to fix the timeline like every other Trek character, and believes in some Care Bear idea that if BH Kirk and BH Spock are friends they can kick the ass of a ship 129 years more advanced. 4. Supernova Spock's apparently now part of the Vulcan Science Academy (where was Starfleet when help was needed?!?!) with the rank of Ambassador (like Black Hole-Spock's father in this film, presumably) instead of hanging out with the reunification crowd. Sure, there's no telling what happened after Nemesis, but none of that makes much sense in the Prime timeline. 5. Supernova Spock says Scotty discovered transwarp beaming. Our Scotty never did that. 6. Supernova Spock had no apparent interest in McCoy's friendship, though his ought to have mattered as much as Kirk's. 7. We never saw any of Supernova Spock's past with Kirk via the mind meld, thus we have no way to know what the events were. I could say that Spock recognizing people who look nothing like the TOS cast was proof, but I'm letting that slide. *** I think the stardates being given in the same unusual way in SN 2387 is a real clue that it's SN 2387 and not PT 2387. I haven't got this concept cleaned up yet, but basically there are two possibilities. 1. Hopping Universes Again, I am going with the Trek distinction of one timeline per universe. This whole event could be a different universe entirely. 2. Chicken and the Egg Nero went in to the black hole first, as someone else here noticed. As soon as Nero fell in, the timeline ought to have changed. Thus the 2387 that existed after Nero's departure should've been one in which Nero arrived in 2233, fought the Kelvin, and then waited in vain for Spock, because there might not've been any black hole to fall into at that time. This is the Nero-Only Black Hole timeline. Any Spock that arrived in BH 2258 thus ought to have appeared from the Nero-Only Black Hole timeline. Vulcan would have survived in this timeline because the red matter never arrived, and perhaps enough other details remained the same (e.g. Nero disappears somehow or other) to allow for Spock to be an Ambassador and with the Vulcan Science Academy in NOBH 2387, trying to save Romulus but pissing off another Nero the Space Trucker, and both wind up caught in the black hole. You see the problem, though. Anytime Nero goes in first, we wind up with a NOBH-style timeline. So we somehow need Spock to be wrong about Nero going in first, because otherwise we never get Spock in the black hole. Otherwise it's like trying to go somewhere by traveling half the distance with each step. We can presume that at some point Nero's ship goes in the black hole but is destroyed prior to time travel, or perhaps it arrives in NOBH on top of Nero's first ship (or vice versa) like a spawn frag or "Tomorrow is Yesterday" beam-on-top-of-yourself event and so bingo, no changes occur. We thus have a Nero and Spock from a NOBH, a timeline pre-modified for our convenience. The alternative is that, instead, the movie's original 2387 timeline apparently persists for some number of seconds at minimum, at which point Spock falls in to the black hole and arrives in BH 2258. But now we go back to the other of two possibilities, since a timeline that persists after a timeline change without outside influence (say, the pocket of the Borg time vortex in First Contact, or the Guardian in "City...") is no timeline at all, in the Trek rationale . . . that is a parallel universe. Certainly arrival from a mirror universe would explain some things in a more satisfying way, such as the oddity of the Kelvin. It would also allow for the persistence of the Prime universe. Either idea would allow for the stardate variation from the Supernova timeline. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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