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The Connie Bashes - A Brief Summary
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Timo: And even the original source of the FJ ship, namely his manual, insists that the "Constitution class" (or Class IX Heavy Cruiser) starships were produced in several time-separated batches. So it's not at all objectionable IMHO to take this as an implicit permission to treat FJ's NCC-1700 as a "variant" instead of a "poor representation of the original".[/QUOTE]Oh god, here we go with the "variants of the Constitution Class" again... (Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.) I believe that there were, at most, two versions of the TOS-era Constitution. The TMP-refit would be the third. I don't pretend to be an expert on all of the various details of the TOS Enterprise, but I'm observant enough to know that we've seen different features on the same part of the ship in the SAME EPISODE, depending on which shot was (re)used. For example, there were the "vents" on the ends of the nacelles, that also were white balls depending on which shot was used. And I specifically recall noticing the larger deflector dish in some of the "regular" TOS episodes. (I can't give specific episodes though, sorry. My only source for TOS right now is the Sci-Fi Channel.) I know that there were a large number of changes in the Enterprise model between "The Cage" and the other episodes. They shrank the bridge module into a smaller bulge, shrank the deflector dish (perhaps after "Where No Man Has Gone Before") and they added the white balls to the warp nacelles (also maybe after "WNMHGB"). There's also the line from "The Cage" which stated that the Enterprise's crew complement in 2254 was 203 -- a whole lot smaller than the 430 from the "regular" series. My conclusion is that there was a refit at the end of Pike's five-year mission(s), which gave the Enterprise (and perhaps the entire Constitution Class) a semi-major upgrade. Heck, we know from the TNG:TM that starships are on a regular refit cycle -- ten to twenty years. If the 1701 was launched in 2245, then a refit of 2264 or so (just before Kirk's five-year mission) would fit in perfectly. But everyone has to remember that just about ALL of the effects shots in TOS were reused whenever possible. Therefore, it's problematic at best to try to apply various "variants" to the basic (TOS-era) Constitution Class design. (Heck, they came up with a relatively lame excuse about Romulans using Klingon ships just so they could re-use the D7 model one more time!) In fact, I'm pretty sure that the big deflector dish from the original version of the model was seen in throughout the TOS run, in the form of the effects shots in the opening credits sequence. Or at least through the first and second season. See, the problem in my mind is that "Star Trek" is still a TV show, no matter how much we try to develop its background and characters. It's fine to try to develop rationalizations and explanations, but at some point you've got to consider the fact that this was a 1960's-era TV show that basically pioneered the modern space opera genre for television. Furthermore, you have to remember that TOS was filmed under a very tight budget, and often under the threat of cancellation. And most especially, the creators had no idea that their work would spawn a multi-billion-dollar franchise, five sequel series, ten movies, and fans like us who would perpetually analyze, discuss, and deconstruct the tiniest details regarding the arrangement of equipment on a studio model. I guess what I'm trying to say is, there's a point where trying to rationalize things is pointless. But I guess that's an IMO. :) [QUOTE]Originally posted by Woodside Kid: [QUOTE]Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: The only major differences: The Federation's saucer is made up of two lower halves of the Constitution saucer, and has a different secondary hull. The nacelles are still the same size, though. [/QUOTE]You must have a different copy of the Manual than I do, then. In the one [i]I[/i] have, the lower half of the Constitution saucer (and, therefore, Hermes, Saladin, and Ptolemy) is a single curve, concave up towards the rim. Not so for the Federation. Its saucer has a two-part curve; the outer portion is concave [i]away[/i] from the rim, while the inner portion is concave [i]towards[/i] it. Aside from the engines, the only part you really can claim is copied directly from the Connie is the dorsal.[/QUOTE]I stand corrected. You're right, it is a slightly modified saucer. In fact... *opens his copy of the TOS:TM* Oh jeez, I can't believe that I forgot this tidbit! About two years ago when I first got the TOS:TM, I was using it to gather the tech specs on the FJ designs, and first noticed the discrepancy. [b]The Federation-class saucer is actually bigger than the Constitution-class saucer![/b] Check the specs in the original book -- The width of the Federation is actually 140 meters, while the others are all 127 meters. This means that there's a larger diameter for the Federation saucer. Harry, it looks like you've got to reproportion your schematics. Looking at the comparison images I've used on my chart (based on the length of 320 meters), your Federation saucer is the same diameter as the Connie's. [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Mike Who Would Be Captain: how do you know theyre the same phaser types and whatnot.. did Okuda and Sternbach publish a Nebula-class technical manual that i missed or are you just assuming they are the same because they look similar? For all we know the internal arrangement features are completely divergent from the Galaxy. this would be necessitated by the fact the a Nebula in real life isnt a kitbash, but built independantly using only parts of the same spaceframe. i can almost definitely see them requiring a lot of different interior tech than the Galaxy based on the fact they have less room and a different mission profile.[/QB][/QUOTE]You're right about the Nebula needing different configurations. However, my reasoning is that they've got a ton of space on that ship, and so they had the room to fit the Type 10 arrays. (Besides, the DS9:TM says Type 10 emitters, too.) I figured that if the saucer is essentially the same, and the phasers have an identical look, then they're probably of the same type. Of course that's not proof in and of itself, so thanks for mentioning that. :) [/QB][/QUOTE]
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