posted
Oh yeah, I heard the verdict here today. It's a very complex case, more than I care to elaborate on right now.
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
At the very least that's unprofessional and reckless behaviour. Even if the guy was armed, it only takes one bullet to put a man down and keep him there. If you have to reload while shooting someone that isn't firing back, that's usually a clue you're doing something wrong.
posted
Yeah, that's what gets me. I can understand maybe, unloading your weapon once in the whole adrenaline rush, but reloading and emptying it again is a whole 'nother thing. The NYPD is generally armed with Glock 17 9mm's, with a 15-17 round magazine, so this guy fired between 30 and 34 consecutive rounds. And the guy who was shot in the shoulder, at near point blank range? I can understand that, but when the cop put 4 more rounds in him, along with the 11 others that his buddies pumped into the poor guy...
Around here, cops get suspended for giving 15 year old crime scene footage to the media, but cops in NYC get off of firing 50 rounds at 3 men.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
As someone who's not really that up on firearms, does semi-automatic mean you have to squeeze the trigger every time you want to discharge a round (as opposed to automatic which will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed)?
Either way, it takes alot to fire that many rounds, but they did say the police thought they were under fire. You would think they would be a tad more coordinated than that, but if they thought they were being fired at by the people in the car, they may have felt justified in going all in.
I was comforted to see that Al Sharpton is involved. That will no doubt bring dignity and reason to the situation. (end sarcasm)
WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
Semi-Auto means the weapon requires you to pull the trigger to fire a round which discharges the weapon, ejects the spent shell casing and loads the next round into the breach. You must then release the trigger and pull it again to fire the next round.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Whereas automatic is a simple point-and-click interface. ....Sorry.
Yeah, I think upon hearing "he reloaded the gun and emptied it again" if I was on the jury I'd just go ahead and vote guilty. Cuz in my opinion even if that poor guy *had* a gun, uhh, that's a bit of overkill for chrissakes. During the reloading you really out to be able to notice whether or not there is return fire coming at you. But I get the impression they don't bother to teach cops to tell a wallet from a gun in NYC so maybe they're just badly trained.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Or, maybe they are taught 18th century fighting tactics- " Boys, put as much lead in the air as possible, and you might hit something once or twice"-or 16 times.
Anyway, if you really look at it, only that one cop who reloaded used "overkill" tactics. He accounts for at most 34 of the bullets fired, and for the other 3 cops there, that would make five rounds each, which is a more normal number in this type of situation.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yah... I can see unloading once if you thought people were shooting. But during the reload, you'd think he would've noticed that nobody was shooting anymore. The other guys only fired 11 and 4 times, right? That's less that a clip each. They wouldv'e been done long before he started in on clip number 2.
But hey... I've never been under fire. Of course, it doesn't look like these guys were either.
posted
You ever seen the vid clip of the Ohio shootout between the Keyhoe brothers, and a police officer? Both the brother and the cop emptied their guns at ten feet, and failed to hit anything. I'm sure somebody can find the video somewhere.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Yah... I can see unloading once if you thought people were shooting. But during the reload, you'd think he would've noticed that nobody was shooting anymore. The other guys only fired 11 and 4 times, right? That's less that a clip each. They wouldv'e been done long before he started in on clip number 2.
But hey... I've never been under fire. Of course, it doesn't look like these guys were either.
Like I said, at best it's criminal incompetence. I don't care how scary it was or threatened they felt, they're supposed to be trained professionals. Not to make this an issue about Americans in general but living where I do, I've spoken with a fair few squaddies just come back from the Iraq or Afghanistan and allot of them have commented at just how crazy and jumpy the Yank soldiers are out there (their words, not mine.) You'd think it's mostly down to a difference in training, I mean some of our lot have decades of experience at this sort of soldiering in Northern Ireland but I've even heard the 19 year old kiddies say the same thing. One story that stuck in my mind was this tankie bloke who said that some of the yanks tear around on patrol with thrash metal (or something similarly angry) blaring away to (in their words I'm told) pump themselves up and that he'd heard stories of American soldiers just loosing their rag and shooting at nothing in particular. I'm not sure how much of this is true, while speaking to any squaddie there's often an element of the bullshit involved, however, the accounts I have heard from different people are reasonably consistent. The reason I bring this up here is because this shooting in NY reeks to be of a panicked reaction with supposedly trained professionals acting out of their emotional state rather than their mental state. I say that because if it was a knee jerk reaction to what they thought was a weapon it would have been BANG, one bullet, perp goes down. Here they clearly just bricked themselves and opened up on the guy until he stopped twitching or the red mist cleared. I wonder if the state of national paranoia you government put you lot through in the years right after 9/11 is starting to put a strain on the national psyche.
As for this case, I hope it can go to appeal as the judgement really needs to be overturned. Just from a public relations standpoint it's a disaster for the NYPD to allow these men to get off on what amounts to manslaughter due to incompetence. If they were private citizens, I guarantee they'd be on a murder charge.
"I've spoken with a fair few squaddies just come back from the Iraq or Afghanistan and allot of them have commented at just how crazy and jumpy the Yank soldiers are out there (their words, not mine.) You'd think it's mostly down to a difference in training, I mean some of our lot have decades of experience at this sort of soldiering in Northern Ireland but I've even heard the 19 year old kiddies say the same thing."
And a lot of our troops grew up at around the same time as Mr Butler, and have seen way too many action movies. They fail to understand that the M-16 had the full auto feature removed for a reason. And anyway, American soldiers have always been jumpy. It's to what degree they can controll it and let their training take over.
I think a jumpy cop is actually good, as they are so paranoid that they notice everything. I have no problem with the NYPD employing such people, my only complaint is that they shouldn't give them Glocks. The ONLY physical saftey is built into the trigger. If I ever do decide to become a cop, I refuse to carry a Glock. I prefer Sig Sauer pistols. I think the BPD lets you choose your firearm though.
-------------------- "Kosh, I'd like to introduce you to our Resident schmuck and his side kick Kick Me."-Ritten
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity". -George Carlin
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Nooooo...a "jumpy cop" is NOT a good thing. Holy shit- anyone with a firearm should neither be jumpy nor paranoid- here in sunny Fort Lauderdale, cops sometimes rest their hands on the butt of their guns as they talk to you- out of reflex. That's scary shit.
Most cops would never pull the kind of crazed response these NYC cops used- the police department runs cops through obstacle courses with those pop-up targets for a reason: so the cops wont shoot first and make excuses later.
It seems like the cops thought a drug deal was going on and went ballistic (no pun intended)- the real scary thing is, they might have been conditioned or coached to shoot first to protect their own safety before asking questions (or, you know, restraining someone to the ground, tasering the suspect, calling for backup, etc.).
Another nail driven into the public's preception of law enforcment.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I agree with Reverend about our troops and cops. It seems like it started in Vietnam - hell with the cool-calm-and-collected stuff, shit bricks and fire! I don't care if it's a schoolchild, kill it!!! Not that I'm trying to minimize the really terrible conditions the soldiers in 'nam were under, it just seems like in WWII our soldiers weren't like that...and now they are.
Registered: Jul 2005
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