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Does anyone here know what Freemason's are? I've tried looking on the Internet, but that was F@#$&%ing helpful, what with all the people saying they are a cult, and other people saying it's afine organization. So, what gives? It smells like cult to me.
------------------ "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
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My father was a Mason. As he got older, he realized there were many cult-like practices involved with Masonic membership. He eventually stopped paying his dues or having anything to do with the Masons, and when he dying, he specifically told us he did not want to be buried wearing his masonic apron.
I am not a Mason. When I was young, my dad told me that it was a sort of club. Eventually, he admitted (probably to himself, first) that it seemed to be more of an "old boys" network than a club. At best, it is a secretive organization who's charter specifically encourages favoritism to members and their families over non-members. While they do support worthwhile charities that benefit non-members and do not perform odious rituals (insofar as I have been able to determine) they do not stand for anything greater than getting together with others to pool their power and influence over the disorganized masses.
I'd rather be a member of the American Legion, since nothing they do is a secret.
--Baloo
------------------ Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things. Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
While there are certain secrets that people are not allowed to divulge (oaths, rituals, passwords, etc,) most of these are secret because:
1.) They've always been, or at least, have been since medieval times, when the Knights Templar (the original Masons) were nearly wiped out by the same Church they had protected and fought for.
2.) They give you a way to unobtrusively identify others who AREN'T wearing tuxedoes, rings, or have stickers on their cars.
Personally, it isn't much more than an old man's club (no women) and the guys in MY lodge, almost all of whom are over 50, are really a harmless bunch. Couldn't plan a conspiracy to save their own hides. Aren't active politically. _I_ am the most dangerous person in that lodge.
Most of the "cultish" accusations come from three sources:
1.) People who petitioned for membership, were rejected, and are now bitter.
2.) People who have heard about the rituals, but have not seen them, and have "cult" as an automatic response.
3.) The occasional Mason who has had a change of heart of some kind, or been forced out by petty politics, or been coerced out by a church or other organization. These are exceedingly rare.
Many Masons are figures of high esteem. Washington was, as well as Jefferson, Franklin, and most of the other Founding Fathers. Masons have walked on the Moon, been generals, teachers, and all manner of other things. Most importantly, they give money for places like the Shriners' hospital, and other burn victims' care units.
The Masons are supposed to place other Mason's needs highest, if they are in distress, and warn other Masons of danger, PROVIDING that the other Mason is truly in need, and it doesn't cause anyone else to suffer. It also means you will support another Mason's character to other people who may be accusing him wrongly. You are emphatically NOT allowed to support a Mason who has committed "offenses against the laws of God, state, or nation."
I'll be happy to answer any other questions -- provided they don't involve me breaking my word -- if anybody has them. Better, there ARE some good books out there on Freemasonry, as long as you keep away from the Fundie garbage. Try "The Hiram Key."
(How, you may ask, did somebody as irreverent as Fo2 become a Freemason? 's Easy. I met all of the qualifications. The only religious one is that you believe in a supreme being. As a Deist (like Jefferson), I can do this.)
------------------ 'In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ---- Thomas Jefferson
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There's a story of local fame(Batavia) about a man named Morgan who was a mason and then quit and published the secrets...after being hunted(as it was said) for several years, he just disappeared. No one to this day knows what happened.
On a similar note, I have a book called "Big Secrets" which divulges many secrets from Coke's own 7x to ways of marking cards, and also the secret rituals and other stuff the masons do.
I found many things, as well as the initiation rituals(which are very humorous). I don't remember the author's name, but If I can find the book, I'll be sure to tell ya. From this book I think 1st of 2 is probably accurate about it being an old-mans' club.
------------------ "Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." - Jeffrey Richman, UB student
[This message has been edited by Jeff Raven (edited November 09, 1999).]
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(FLOORED) Everything I've ever heard or been told about freemansons, has put them as little more then a strict christen orginization, with some rather odd services. If they let 1stof2 in, then their members have been lieing to me for years.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
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1st of 2 is correct. The Masons only require the prospective member to believe in a higher power (I think it's more well-defined than that, however). There are branches of Masonry which are composed largely of Muslims or Catholics, but they will admit members from a wide variety of beliefs. I haven't heard whether there are any Jewish Masons, however.
I am reminded of an anecdote my dad used to tell about one of his friends who was in Scottish Rites (a branch or subdivision of Masonry -- I am unclear about what the divisions signify):
Mrs. Murphy was having tea with some of her friends late one night when Mr. Murphy retured home from a Masonic Meeting that had apparently included more than a little "adult refreshment".
Upon seeing Mr. Murphy wearing his kilt, one of Mrs. Murphy's friends said: "I've always wondered... What do you wear under your kilt?"
Mr. Murphy answered: "Madam, I am a man of few words. Give me your hand!"
------------------ Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, somebody's out to get me." --Bill Watterson www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 09, 1999).]
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*reads the scientology article* Seventy-four trillion years, eh? That's pretty damned good, considering the universe itself has only been around for two-tenths of one percent of that time...
------------------ Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia." Holly: "What's a trace?" Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'." Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool." -Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
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Baloo: You'd be better off trying one of the bigger bookstores. My dad found his copy at a Barnes and Noble.
The Masons trace their origins (in legend, at least) back to the construction of King Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, and most of their symbolism is said to date from that era... though it probably doesn't. As I said before, it more likely begins with the Templar near the end of their reign, and carried on, evolving, through the Renaissance and the Age of Reason.
It is also true that Masonry admits non-Christians, and the "belief clause" is merely a requirement that one "believe in a supreme being." Technically, this makes membership open to any Monotheist, probably some Polytheists (Zeus was the supreme Greek God, wasn't he?), and, taken to extremes, anyone who believes in an Intelligent Universe or a all-encompassing power -- though that might stretch it a bit.
One branch of advanced Masonry is the Shriners, who run places like the Syria Mosque. Some of their accoutrements are decidedly Islamic in appearance, like those little fezzes. However, I'm not in that group, so I can't provide much data on it. My dad's a member, though. I don't personally know any Jewish Masons, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
The regular lodge (in the US, in any case) is primarily Judeo-Christian in character, though Christ is'nt mentioned, St. John is.
------------------ 'In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ---- Thomas Jefferson
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Here we go! Leave it to Cecil to have already addressed this at some time in the past. At one time I went through the archives at The Straight Dope from one end to the other. I wonder how I overlooked this?
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While it is likely true that some members of some lodges have abused their power connections, such conduct is condemned by Freemasonry as immoral and unjust Besides, the same can be said for any community or social group. Ask disgruntled Catholics.
As with tampered halloween candy, the rumors generally outdistance the actual events about 10,000 to 1.
It should be known that there are also scattered "clandestine" lodges which lay claim to aspects of Masonry, but are again condemned wholesale (part of one oath a Mason takes is a promise never to have anything to do with a clandestine lodge. Membership is NOT a secret anymore, and hasn't been for hundreds of years.) These clandestine lodges have caused a great deal of the mischief that Regular Freemasonry takes the blame for.
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
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