quote:We will always try to consult with our friends in the region so that they are not surprised and do everything we can to explain the purpose of our responses. We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq, and these are policies that we are going to keep in place, but we are always willing to review them to make sure that they are being carried out in a way that does not affect the Iraqi people but does affect the Iraqi regime's ambitions and the ability to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and we had a good conversation on this issue.
As of early 2001, the Secrtetary of State said that the policies of keeping Saddam Hussein in check were working and that he had "...not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction."
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, He was working on the "Supergun" deal. If Hussein blew money on dumb stuff like that, you know he had some useful junk too. Like the biologics used so sucessfully on Iraqi rebels in recent years. They just had too much warning of the invasion, plenty of time to destroy or move the evidence.
posted
Yeah, and how about those homemade cruise missles they found that used commercialy made British guidance systems. And the Chinese silkworm Missles fired at Kuwait during the recent war.
And of course just how many Chemical warheads did the Iraqis forget to destroy besides those that were found by accident a few years back.
And the L29 jet trainers converted to UAV Chemical weapons delivery systems.
Thats a mighty big piece of land to hide things in and more and more arms caches are found almost on a daily basis there.
It may take a while but like the savings and loan people say "there are severe penalties for early withdrawal". I think Madonna said that once also come to think of it.
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posted
"It may take a while but like the savings and loan people say "there are severe penalties for early withdrawal". I think Madonna said that once also come to think of it."
You know, while I fully support our efforts over there, I really hate seeing our kids getting killed by boobytraps, car bombs and other cowardly crap. More troops have been killed trying to keep the "peace" now than were killed in the invasion! I figure since a scorched earth policy is likely out of the question, I think the US forces should just pack up our toys and go home! Let the UN fuck up Iraq for awhile.
-------------------- Underground Dweller: "Everything you flush ends up here," "This is our library" Fry: "It's nothing but crumpled porn and Ayn Rand"
Registered: Jun 2003
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
I don't like our being there either but thats the luck of the draw. 75,000 men have enlisted in our armed forces this year and another 25,000 are expected to do the same before the year is out. They are ready to rock. If a job needs doing we have those that are ready to do it. Its a professional army not conscripts.
It would have been nice if the UN had gotten off its duff and done their part and maybe they will before its over.
At least the British, Australian, and Poles did their part. Hell even the Germans sent some non combat troops. Probably a few more countries I can't remember right now as well.
We aren't in this alone though sometimes it seems that way. P.S. heres a link to some interesting info. Apparently we do have some friends willing to help shoulder the burden and the Poles are leading the way. The Ukraine,Bulgaria,The Netherlands,Denmark,and Norway are all sending troops to help with the peace keeping chores. Spain,Hungary,Slovakia,Lithuania,Honduras,El Salvador,and the Dominian Republic are also expected to send troops to help out. All without UN approval.
quote: And the L29 jet trainers converted to UAV Chemical weapons delivery systems.
I believe this has been proven false.
As for Powell's claims, everyone knows he was originally hesitant on invading Iraq...he wanted to pursue the diplomatic route. Unfortunately, there is a distinct time period where he changed his view and called on Saddam to "disarm or be disarmed." He was probably given a few good lectures from Dick Cheney.
Which is why he probably won't be coming back as Secretary of State if Bush is elected again.
posted
As for the L29 delphin question all I've found on it is the fact that its range{600 miles} may not allow it to be used except against neighboring states.
Powells statement was aparently made long before Sept.11,2001 alot of peoples attitudes changed in that time period.
This thread was not based on anything that matters in world of today. Words are after all just words. Some have great importance and others do not.
[ September 28, 2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Mountain Man ]
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quote:And of course just how many Chemical warheads did the Iraqis forget to destroy besides those that were found by accident a few years back.
Apparently not many because the "Coalition" has not been able to find any. And instead of admitting this, the "Coalition" has been delaying the printing of the report on this. It is time to face the facts, the prez lead the American people into a war with trumped up charges though either lying or incompetant intelligence. I am not sure of the reason, maybe it is just because not enough Afghanis died for the sin of attacking the US. Or that this was just a convenient excuse to exersize control over oil fields in the ME. America and its "coalition" have attacked a country illegally and should have to pay the price, unfortunately it is the young men who are paying it and not the bastards who sent them their. They have pulled the same shit that Hussain pulled in order to invade Kuwait. Make up reasons, check with his allies( US for Hussain, Britain for the US) and then attack dispite what the rest of the world think. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair, etc, are all war criminals.
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
The out pouring of symphathy for Saddam Husseins regime Is quite touching. Perhaps if we ignored completely the task of rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure and concentrated only on finding the WMDs, then they would have been uncovered by now. Of course the Snipers and Suicide bombers would also have to back off for awhile as well.
The most recent arms cache discovered, turns out to have been imported from outside Iraq by terrorist symphathizers. Who knows what they recieved in return.
The Who knows factor is the main thing at this point.
The terrorist have always used the element of "Whats Next" to their advantage in controling the people and some times the governments in the Middle East.
Russia has recently made the statement that despite the discovery of weapons grade enriched uranium in Iran they will continue to provide Nuclear technology support to Iran's nuclear programs. Perhaps they and the French Government are still trying to recoup their losses on all that military hardware they sold Saddam on credit.
A recent link about Frances Communist party also mentioned the prevailence of Anti-Semetic feeling among the French people. That actualy came as a suprize to me. Though I guess it fits with the recent events well enough.
The Israeli's are not the only victims of terrorist attacks. The Russians seem to feel that their own problems in Chechnya should be our problem as well. Maybe thats part of their problem.
If the WMDs have been moved to neighboring countries by terrorist they must be tracked down and destroyed.
Too bad Saddam chose to play a game of hide and seek for so many decades. If his regime could have been trusted this all might well have ended differently. But then again would Iraq, at least the majority of its people, be better off. I doubt the Kurds or Shites would agree no matter how they think of us.
One should also remember that the only visible difference between a conventional mortar round and a poison gas mortar round is the color of the nosecap. The confiscated ordnance will have to be carefully sorted examined and destroyed in order to be sure that poison gas like that used against Iranian troops(a Soviet type using several types of poisons including the yellow rain biological toxin)does not get loose, either by accident or design.
The war was not against Iraq, it was against Saddam and his murdering maniac regime. Thats why it was called "Operation Iraqi Freedom". In that we have had a great measure of success. What Iraq does with its freedom from Husein's tyranical rule is their decision. We can help and will help. The future will be up to them.
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quote: The out pouring of symphathy for Saddam Hussiens regime Is quite touching.
What sympathy for Hussain's regime? No one in this thread had stated anything even retotely praising Saddam. Opposition to the war (or criticism of the reasons we went to war) does not=support for Saddam.
Coalition forces have now been in Iraq longer than the weapons inspectors were prior to the war. As Dubya said "How much longer do they need?"
quote:A recent link about Frances Communist party also mentioned the prevailence of Anti-Semetic feeling among the French people. That actualy came as a suprize to me. Though I guess it fits with the recent events well enough.
Where was this link? Please bear in mind that we get the "Europeans are anti-semitic" crap from the US and US based news sources about every 3 months. And the French Communist Party isn't exactly representative of the French people. And how exactly does it fit in with recent events? Did I miss France bombing Israel or saying, yeah terrorism against Israel is OK?
quote: The Israeli's are not the only victims of terrorist attacks.
Well done. Although the 'war on terror' seems to basically mean those attacking the Irraelis and the US. And still no word on any prosecutions of the oh, so many Americans who funded the IRA.
If Saddam did have WMD before the invasion (looking increasingly doubtful) then his most profitable (in terms of possibly causing damage to his enemies) course of action would be for him to have given them to terrorist groups. Something which would probably have been triggered by the invasion. Hardly a resounding success.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
The elections in France in which a right wing canidate and a communist canidate were at odds. The link was on an earlier thread posted by someone else. I'll try to dig up the same link if its still there. The Anti-Semetism mentioned in that article was not restricted to the communist party and was mentioned as a widespread thing in france today. France has of course sold jet fighters and in one case was caught delivering Uranium Oxide to Israel. They sell to both sides like everyone else. Money is money and the loss of all that money Saddam still owed them on war material was a mighty big kick in the pants. The French are not as innocent as you might believe. Of course not all French are the same and to give them the benefit of the doubt is not a big strecth. After all its the ones in power who play the games with peoples lives not the citizens.
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Wow I thought this thread was about the US failure to find the WMD which is also a failure of them to prove their imminent threat to themselves. But apparently it is about French communists and anti-semitism. Way to go MM, a nice shift in the arguement, sure you don't work for Bushco. The way you seem to change thread whenever the admnin. is threatened, reminds me of all of the crap we have been hearing out of Washington these days.
-------------------- "and none of your usual boobery." M. Burns
Registered: Oct 2001
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
Is he in Heaven or is he in hell that damned elusive Pimpernel. So long for now folks hope your train of thought is not too badly off center.
Please carry on with the discussion. The subject has gotten too boring for me at last. Or rather the competition has.
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